Apple needs to buy AUTODESK ASAP!
All I want for Christmas is an official agreement of Apple buying AutoDesk. AutoDesk is a little too Mac indifferent for my liking. CAD and 3D for entertainment (Film, broadcast and games) is too big an industry segment right up the Apple alley to leave in the hands of AutoDesk. If Apple wants to move into games this is the ideal way to do it as they would have the top tier applications for all that is 3D and they would solidify their professional content creation line up. Additionally, I've heard people constantly talk about the possibilty of Apple buying Adobe, but Apple really already has either developed or acquired all of the same raw software IP Adobe and could fairly easily and quickly create software products to rival everything including Photoshop. The thing is while I dislike the way Adobe develops it's GUIs Adobe bought Macromedia purely to to keep Microsoft from getting Flash and killing all of Macromedias offerings except Flash. Adobe will never develop for Linux ass it would open itself up to all of the hackers in the world and doesn't wish to live in a Windows world...at a core level the corporation feels the need to develop for OS X. AutoDesk, on the other hand is a different ball game They develop softwre that Apple needs to maintain superiority in the ontent creation field, but from a corporate standpoint it doesn't have any compelling desire to develop for OS X irrespective of all of the built-in technologies Apple has developed to make the platform attractive to content creation. Buying AutoDesk would immediately give Apple the software applications that 90% of the gaming community uses to build the games everyone plays. 90% of Architects use, and 90% of what visual effects and animation houses use for film and broadcast. New technology mixed with Apple's software developing genius is the formula Apple has used to become successful at developing software. They need to do it now before AutoDesk starts selling off pieces of the company.
Comments
AutoDesk's culture is one that hates Macs...how the hell do you think these two companies can merge?
it would be an interesting move by apple's part. autocad is the de-facto standard in 3d cad. if they pulled a stunt similar to how the transitioned shake from windows and linux on to eventually run on os x only, it could lead to a significant increase in hardware sales i image.
well yes, but I can't really see that happening. Not saying it won't or couldn't. Just cannot see that happening.
it would be an interesting move by apple's part. autocad is the de-facto standard in 3d cad.
And it really is a shame. AutoCAD is so poorly designed, I can't even come up with a funny line for it.
Actually, Apple has already presented the solution: Boot Camp. Use all the AutoDesk application you want. On your Mac.
Now Autodesk did -and they already had 3DS Max- so it doesn't look good for May on the Mac.
It will start by waiting forever on a UB version (if there ever comes one). Then they will leave features out compared to the Windows version, then the updates will slip, and then they will cancel Maya for Mac altogether. Watch my words.
Ah, Autodesk ...
If Apple had bought Maya, they had a dreamteam suite: FCP, Motion, Shake, Maya.
People have been crying out for stuff like autocad and 3ds max on mac for years. Would be interesting to hear what the people at cupertino would have to say about this.
And they cry for about, oh, ten minutes until they realize that better alternatives exist. There are several 3D apps for mac that far outshine those two. As a few here have astutely noted, the only worthy product in the Autodesk toolchest is Maya, which itself has changed hands half a dozen times in the past decade at least.
Also, for the record, I don't think either AutoCAD or 3DSMax are widely used by any of Apple's target markets.
If Apple had bought Maya, they had a dreamteam suite: FCP, Motion, Shake, Maya.
As far as I know, Maya isn't the greatest rendering engine, which is kind of the theme there. It's good for animation, definitely, but that stage is a little detached from what I would call post-creation tasks that you'd do with FCP, Motion, Shake. The only reason I can see much benefit in an Apple purchase of Maya is that the cost would undoubtedly drop, and there would be guaranteed mac support for the forseeable future. Personally, I'd be satisfied with the latter, which is not necessarily dependent on Apple purchasing Maya. Autodesk is too big and too old to have a grudge against Apple. If the Mac-Maya unit is running a profit, then they'll keep it going. That simple. Autodesk made AutoCAD for mac all the way through R12, only phasing it out when it became unprofitable.
And they cry for about, oh, ten minutes until they realize that better alternatives exist. There are several 3D apps for mac that far outshine those two. As a few here have astutely noted, the only worthy product in the Autodesk toolchest is Maya, which itself has changed hands half a dozen times in the past decade at least.
Also, for the record, I don't think either AutoCAD or 3DSMax are widely used by any of Apple's target markets.
As far as I know, Maya isn't the greatest rendering engine, which is kind of the theme there. It's good for animation, definitely, but that stage is a little detached from what I would call post-creation tasks that you'd do with FCP, Motion, Shake. The only reason I can see much benefit in an Apple purchase of Maya is that the cost would undoubtedly drop, and there would be guaranteed mac support for the forseeable future. Personally, I'd be satisfied with the latter, which is not necessarily dependent on Apple purchasing Maya. Autodesk is too big and too old to have a grudge against Apple. If the Mac-Maya unit is running a profit, then they'll keep it going. That simple. Autodesk made AutoCAD for mac all the way through R12, only phasing it out when it became unprofitable.
Uhm.
1) Can you please elaborate on your comments for example, you say that "better alternatives exist". Can you give any examples?
2) In my opinion, one of Apple's target markets is creative professionals. This includes Architects. Almost ALL architects use autocad - mainly because it is industry standard. 3ds max is the standard for game design, and is also widely used by architects.
3) Maya is not a rendering engine - it is a complete modelling, rendering and animation package. You can use a variety of different renderers with Maya, including for example mental ray and maxwell render - which are 2 of the best renderers out there.
4) What do you mean by saying animation is detached from post production? Are you saying you would prefer to work on 2 different platforms for the 2 different tasks? That doesn't make sense to me. Anyone will tell you that one of the great things about Apple's suite of pro apps is how they integrate together on the platform.
5) Why would the cost of Maya drop if Apple bought it? Autodesk have already reduced the price considerably.
6) Who said Autodesk have a 'grudge' against apple?
I'm an architect for 30 years (yipes!) who has been using Macs since '86 and even CAD since then too. Also, worked in one office that used PC's and AutoBAD. So I've used various OS platforms and CAD/3D programs.
So think I can address this subject with quite a bit of knowledge and experience.
AutoBAD is basically a drafting app that was developed for engineers. Really had nothing to do with architecture and what we need.
Over the years as competitors created more architecture related CAD apps, AutoBAD had architecture features grafted onto it, both within the app and by AutoDesk and 3rd party add-ons. Got to be a pretty kludgy solution as a result, plus very expensive.
Only reason for it becoming the 'Industry Standard' and thus architects feeling compelled to buy it was that all the engineering consultants had already bought it and thus to 'be compatible' (ie 'file exchange') the architects bought it too.
Once other competitors figured out how to be AutoBAD compatible this argument went away in reality but many architects by then had already bought AutoBAD...
So in a nutshell, that's how we got to the current state of affairs....
Now having said all that....there are some excellent and IMHO better alternatives for architects.
The best for architects IMHO is ArchiCAD. This app was designed from the get-go for architects BY architects.
The main difference is that ArchiCAD works like architects should in 3D (but you can work when you want in 2D too...). SO that you build your design in 3D and then when you want a 'set of drawings (2D) you just 'extract' them from the 3D model, as 2D views are really just vertical and horizontal slices through a 3D model.
Also, ArchiCAD is designed from the ground up as a building database, so that you can extract other kinds of info from it.
Library objects are not only 3D/2D but can be and are usually parametric, so very flexible.
Besides ArchiCAD, there's Vectorworks, which is quite good too. I used it before it was bought by Nemetshek and was called MiniCAD. It has more of a CAD drafting app with 3D capabilities than a 3D app like ArchiCAD.
As for rendering and presentation apps, there are several good ones out there than run on the Mac (some run on PC's too...). One that I liked a lot as it was so quick and easy to use yet still gave excellent results (at least my clients loved it...) was Abvent's ArtLantis. So I'd model in ArchiCAD and export out to ArtLantis to render, put in lighting, then make QTVR files and either show them and/or email them to clients.
A few years ago, AutoDesk saw the 'handwriting on the wall' and started to try and duplicate some of ArchiCAD's features, however, again it was a kludgy add-on. Finally, they bought Revit as a way to something more ArchiCAD-like. Then they turned around and started promoting 'BIM' (Building Information Modeling) as if they'd invented this concept....
Bottom-line is that if you're a Mac user, you don't need to buy into the AutoBAD hegemony anymore then you need to use Windoze....that is of course, unless you go work for a firm that uses Windoze/AutoBAD, then you're SOL.... ;-)
I've done hundreds of projects professionally using CAD on the Mac, without using AutoBAD.
Anyway, that's just my 2 cents....
YMMV....
HTH,
Mark
Silicone Valley Architect
My point is that on windows, you always have these options. If you need to use ArchiCAD for whatever reason, then you can. Guess what - you can also use archicad and vectorworks.
It is also important to note that I never once said in this thread that Apple should buy autodesk. I think it might have been a smart move for Apple to buy Maya - but that is an entirely different kettle of fish.
Was merely trying to point out what some of the history on this was and what some available options were for you and others that may read this thread....
As for NURBS, I'm not sure whether FormZ is an option for this?? I never actually used it....
I do remember though that there was an NURBS modeler add-on for MiniCAD...seem to recall that it was put out by a Swedish architect....was on the old Graphisoft (original MiniCAD developer, not the ArchiCAD developer, sounds similar...) website, maybe still available, could check the Nemetshek site...
Anyway, I'm sure there's a Mac NURBS modeling app out there somewhere....
;-)
Mark
There are lots of great 3D apps, but 98% of every visual effect that's scene in film and on television was created using Maya, so the whole "Maya isn't the best" thing doesn't wash. Honestly, when Alias announced they were porting Maya to the Mac all of the companies that were currently making lackluster ports (Newtek in particular) completely rewrote their products. Apple owning Maya would only open the door to the idea of 3D content creation being very accessible via OS X, which most design professionals who've never used the OS X version of Maya think. Apple should kill Max and re-deploy those folks to building a state of the art game development application; it's insane to me that with the game industry being the size that it is there is no dominant full pipeline tool and most studios still are relying on cobbled together tools that breakdown and don't work with other apps in the way the are expected to regularly. AutoCAD would presumably be rewritten and architects could finally have an application actually worthy of the "Best of Class" label. The StudioTools interface(s) would be refined a bit more and updated to being more in line with the solid modeling apps available.
For me it's just about better tools made by better software developers that just "Get it." when it comes to forward thinking on features, GUI(s) and integration.
As for NURBS, I'm not sure whether FormZ is an option for this?? I never actually used it....
...
Anyway, I'm sure there's a Mac NURBS modeling app out there somewhere....
FormZ 4.0/4.1 has decent NURBS support. I think it's up to 6 now, and NURBS support keeps improving. As a rule of thumb, if you are looking to find a software program that does some specific type of modeling, chances are, FormZ has a feature that does the same thing, does it better, and can export it to more types of formats.
With that said, the best NURBS program I've ever used is Universe Modeler 5.0. It has been orphaned, but there are plenty of people on the ElectricImage forums who can point you to suitable replacements. I know there are a few, but I forget their names. Hell, I still use Universe 5 and FormZ 4.1
It's interesting that most of the people that responded about AutoCAD, didn't know it was such an architectual oriented crowd. . . .
There are lots of great 3D apps, but 98% of every visual effect that's scene in film and on television was created using Maya, so the whole "Maya isn't the best" thing doesn't wash.. . .
I design electronics, which includes enclosures. If you opened up with "SolidWorks should be on the mac" I'd be right behind you, but that's another topic.
Secondly, that second statement is woefully far from the truth. Maya is a great animation tool, especially for subdivison solid animating, but the bulk of visual effects are not really the things that Maya does best. Electric Image is still a stalwart in the visual effects department, and it's quite likely that it's used at least as much as Maya for rendering and animation (probably more). The bonus is that EI is very much a mac company.
I'm imagining a situation where if Apple took over Maya, they would have yet another powerhouse tool in their suite. Apple would bring the Maya interface up to scratch with the Apple PRO apps and make it integrate. As Imhotep397 was saying, taking over Maya would throw the macintosh into the 3d sector and help revolutionise the 3d sector.
As far as AutoCAD goes, if there was AutoCAD (and Rhino) support on mac, then there would no reason for architects not to use the macintosh platform.
ArchStudent,
I'm an architect for 30 years (yipes!) who has been using Macs since '86 and even CAD since then too. Also, worked in one office that used PC's and AutoBAD. So I've used various OS platforms and CAD/3D programs.
So think I can address this subject with quite a bit of knowledge and experience.
AutoBAD is basically a drafting app that was developed for engineers. Really had nothing to do with architecture and what we need.
Maybe I'd give your argument credence if you didn't resort to name mangling. Seeing it several times in your post just got tiring.
I recieve production drawings in AutoCad every day and if I said, sorry, we use "X CAD", I would be shutdown in a week.
AutoCad 2d on the Mac would suite me fine.
Mark
Maybe I'd give your argument credence if you didn't resort to name mangling. Seeing it several times in your post just got tiring.
I've sent many files to engineers who use AutoCAD and they never even knew that the file was not created in AutoCAD....
So, really not a problem or issue to be concerned with as far as being compatible with AutoCAD users.....
AutoBad or AutoCrap, it is THE Standard in my industry. VectorWorks can be the best thing ever but Civil Engineer's and surveyor's are going to use ACad until the day they come and take the HDD's out of their computers.
I recieve production drawings in AutoCad every day and if I said, sorry, we use "X CAD", I would be shutdown in a week.
AutoCad 2d on the Mac would suite me fine.