Proof that Apple Laptops Are Cheapest both for Consumer & Pro
Well here is at least two proofs that it is actually A LOT cheaper to buy an Apple laptop, than a poorly designed DELL.
(Dont even start to compare to the better designed laptops from IBM or SONY.....)
CASE 1: Professional desktop replacement laptop.
Let's build a comparable Dell to the middle one 15" 2.33 Ghz. $2499.
Closest configuration is:
Dell Latitude D820
15" wide screen
WSXGA 1680x1050
Core 2 Duo 2.33 GHz
2 GB RAM
120 GB hard disk 5400 rpm
256 MB NVIDIA NVS 110M
Configured with not-optional 3yr service.
and Software for burner and dvd
Its has a slightly higher resolution than the Apple, and a comparable graphics card.
It has no FireWire, no webcam, only single layer dvd burner, and no usable software.
So what is the price?
$ 2890 !!
For that price you could get any of the MacBook Pros, even the 17".
Ok let's try a consumer Laptop instead.
CASE 2: Small portable consumer laptop.
The closest thing Dell has to the MacBook is the XPS M1210:
12" wide screen
WXGA 1280x800
Core 2 Duo 2.00 GHz
1 GB RAM
80 GB hard disk 5400 rpm
dual layer dvd burner
Integrated Intel 950 graphics
Configured with No service.
and Software for burner and dvd
But with windows XP pro
$ 1641 !!
Again for that price you could choose any of the MacBooks!
So regarding Price only, Apple clearly wins!
(and for the rest Apple wins too...)
Price difference is about the same in the EU stores.
Sorry if there has been 100's of these comparisons, but its always good to have a recent one....
(edit: changed the first dell laptop to a latitude d820)
(Dont even start to compare to the better designed laptops from IBM or SONY.....)
CASE 1: Professional desktop replacement laptop.
Let's build a comparable Dell to the middle one 15" 2.33 Ghz. $2499.
Closest configuration is:
Dell Latitude D820
15" wide screen
WSXGA 1680x1050
Core 2 Duo 2.33 GHz
2 GB RAM
120 GB hard disk 5400 rpm
256 MB NVIDIA NVS 110M
Configured with not-optional 3yr service.
and Software for burner and dvd
Its has a slightly higher resolution than the Apple, and a comparable graphics card.
It has no FireWire, no webcam, only single layer dvd burner, and no usable software.
So what is the price?
$ 2890 !!
For that price you could get any of the MacBook Pros, even the 17".
Ok let's try a consumer Laptop instead.
CASE 2: Small portable consumer laptop.
The closest thing Dell has to the MacBook is the XPS M1210:
12" wide screen
WXGA 1280x800
Core 2 Duo 2.00 GHz
1 GB RAM
80 GB hard disk 5400 rpm
dual layer dvd burner
Integrated Intel 950 graphics
Configured with No service.
and Software for burner and dvd
But with windows XP pro
$ 1641 !!
Again for that price you could choose any of the MacBooks!
So regarding Price only, Apple clearly wins!
(and for the rest Apple wins too...)
Price difference is about the same in the EU stores.
Sorry if there has been 100's of these comparisons, but its always good to have a recent one....
(edit: changed the first dell laptop to a latitude d820)
Comments
Of coure for similarly spec'd machines, apple is about the same price if not cheaper.
And to be honest, I don't want apple to start making really cheap computers!
stu
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E1505 Dual Core
From $1,119
$973\t
As low as $30/month
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Heres one I just put together for less
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Congratulations! Your system is ready to be built.
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PROCESSOR\tIntel® Core? 2 Duo T7200 (2.00GHz, 4MB L2 Cache, 667MHz FSB)\tedit
OPERATING SYSTEM & TV-TUNERS\tGenuine Windows® XP Media Center Edition 2005\tedit
UPGRADE TO WINDOWS VISTA\tNo Express Upgrade to Windows Vista Selected\tedit
LCD PANEL\t15.4 inch Wide Screen XGA Display with TrueLife?\tedit
MEMORY\t1GB Shared Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 533MHz, 2 Dimm\tedit
HARD DRIVE\t80GB 5400rpm SATA Hard Drive\tedit
OPTICAL DRIVE\t24X CD Burner/DVD Combo Drive\tedit
VIDEO CARD\tIntel® Graphics Media Accelerator 950\tedit
SOUND OPTIONS\tIntegrated Audio\tedit
My Accessories
BATTERY OPTIONS\t53 WHr 6-cell Lithium Ion Primary Battery\tedit
WIRELESS CARDS\tDell Wireless 1390b/g (54Mbps)\tedit
E1505 Dual Core
From $1,119
$973\t
As low as $30/month
It comes close, but it has no superdrive! And also no bluetooth
And if one would be nit-picky, you could argue that you need windows xp pro, to have the equvalent of mac os x. (you can't log into company domains with xp home or media center)
Which model is it? The form factor is probably pretty far from an ibook as well.
And if one would be nit-picky, you could argue that you need windows xp pro, to have the equvalent of mac os x. (you can't log into company domains with xp home or media center)
Which model is it? The form factor is probably pretty far from an ibook as well.
I am old school, if I'm going to buy a laptop, the only thing I care about is the processor.
All that other crap you can buy later. This one I saw for $973, (Core 2 Duo 2.00Ghz)
thats not bad for that price. You can go to CompUSA and buy their external DVD writer for $79 bucks, go to a computer fair and buy another gig of ram for $99 bucks and call it a day.
Go to new egg.com and get some cheap wireless card for the free Y-fi at Starbucks.
So here is a 15" screen Core 2 Duo for under $1000
If Mac offered such a thing, I'd buy it. Their 2.0 Ghz Duo MacBook is a 13", also doesnt come with wireless card, has the same hdd and ram, but has a DVD writer .....but is $1299, I'd say performance-wise, its a draw except the Mac's screen is smaller. So whats so "cheapest"
re: the thread's topic? If you don't search wisely, of course you will find products that will
cost more and have less performance.
Heres one I just put together for less
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PROCESSOR\tIntel® Core? 2 Duo T7200 (2.00GHz, 4MB L2 Cache, 667MHz FSB)\tedit
OPERATING SYSTEM & TV-TUNERS\tGenuine Windows® XP Media Center Edition 2005\tedit
UPGRADE TO WINDOWS VISTA\tNo Express Upgrade to Windows Vista Selected\tedit
LCD PANEL\t15.4 inch Wide Screen XGA Display with TrueLife?\tedit
MEMORY\t1GB Shared Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 533MHz, 2 Dimm\tedit
HARD DRIVE\t80GB 5400rpm SATA Hard Drive\tedit
OPTICAL DRIVE\t24X CD Burner/DVD Combo Drive\tedit
VIDEO CARD\tIntel® Graphics Media Accelerator 950\tedit
SOUND OPTIONS\tIntegrated Audio\tedit
My Accessories
BATTERY OPTIONS\t53 WHr 6-cell Lithium Ion Primary Battery\tedit
WIRELESS CARDS\tDell Wireless 1390b/g (54Mbps)\tedit
E1505 Dual Core
From $1,119
$973\t
As low as $30/month
Far lower display resolution. Integrated graphics. No DVD burner. No Bluetooth. Slower RAM. No digital video output.
Let's try the other way. Source: lenovo.com
Lenovo 3000 N100 with Intel Core 2 Duo T7200 (2GHz, 4MBL2, 667MHzFSB)
Edit\t\t0768AJU\t\t$1,599.00\t\t1\t\t$1,599.00
Processor: Intel Core 2 Duo T7200 (2GHz, 4MBL2, 667MHzFSB)
Operating system: Genuine Windows XP Professional
Display type: 15.4 inch WSXGA+ VibrantView TFT with integrated camera (1680x1050) (Premium Silver)\t\t\t\t\t\t1\t\t
System graphics: 128MB NVIDIA GeForce Go 7300 with Turbo Cache
Total memory: 2GB PC2-5300DDR2 SDRAM
Hard drive: 120GB, 5400rpm Serial ATA
Optical device: 8X Max DVD Recordable (Dual Layer) EIDE Fixed Media Bay drive
Wireless cards: Lenovo 11a/b/g/n Wi-Fi Wireless
Bluetooth: Integrated Bluetooth PAN
Low end Powerbook costs $550 more after adding the equivalent 2GB memory, but still has worse display resolution. There's no way to twist this into an Apple win.
I'm not trying to say Powerbooks aren't worth it. I'm trying to say the original poster's comparison, and most other comparisons made on these forums, are rigged in their basic assumptions to virtually guarantee an Apple win by using the Apple stock models as the target.
My idea of a fair comparison would be to take a sample (1 and up) of real-life user needs, and make a comparison using those needs as the target both for the Windows PC and the Mac. The result would be specific to this target, of course, and not a blanket verdict.
It's interesting how these comparisons invariably work. The Apple computer represents a "perfect" configuration the other computer has to match, part for part. Then the other computer is heavily BTO'ed to match the stock Apple. Big surprise! Apple wins.
Big surprise: the people who buy Macs buy them precisely because of what you call a "'perfect' configuration". Therefore, in order to debunk the common notion that Macs are overpriced for what they offer, you have to find comparable models, and therefore, that includes BTO'ing them to the very exact "'perfect' configuration". If you fail to do so, you fail to make a fair comparison.
Whether these comparisons prove that Dell's BTO prices are as equally inflated as Apple's BTO prices is irrelevant, because the comparisons aren't meant to display that to begin with.
My idea of a fair comparison would be to take a sample (1 and up) of real-life user needs,
Guess what: everyone has their own preferences, resources and needs.
It's interesting how these comparisons invariably work. The Apple computer represents a "perfect" configuration the other computer has to match, part for part. Then the other computer is heavily BTO'ed to match the stock Apple. Big surprise! Apple wins. An equally biased way would be to take a Dell/Lenovo/etc stock model and start BTO'ing Apple computers to match them part for part, no matter how prohitibively expensive that is. Naturally Apple doesn't have as big a selection, so they would not just seem more expensive, but often lose by default because they cannot come anywhere close to the other computer's configuration.
Let's try the other way. Source: lenovo.com
Lenovo 3000 N100 with Intel Core 2 Duo T7200 (2GHz, 4MBL2, 667MHzFSB)
Edit\t\t0768AJU\t\t$1,599.00\t\t1\t\t$1,599.00
Processor: Intel Core 2 Duo T7200 (2GHz, 4MBL2, 667MHzFSB)
Operating system: Genuine Windows XP Professional
Display type: 15.4 inch WSXGA+ VibrantView TFT with integrated camera (1680x1050) (Premium Silver)\t\t\t\t\t\t1\t\t
System graphics: 128MB NVIDIA GeForce Go 7300 with Turbo Cache
Total memory: 2GB PC2-5300DDR2 SDRAM
Hard drive: 120GB, 5400rpm Serial ATA
Optical device: 8X Max DVD Recordable (Dual Layer) EIDE Fixed Media Bay drive
Wireless cards: Lenovo 11a/b/g/n Wi-Fi Wireless
Bluetooth: Integrated Bluetooth PAN
Low end Powerbook costs $550 more after adding the equivalent 2GB memory, but still has worse display resolution. There's no way to twist this into an Apple win.
I'm not trying to say Powerbooks aren't worth it. I'm trying to say the original poster's comparison, and most other comparisons made on these forums, are rigged in their basic assumptions to virtually guarantee an Apple win by using the Apple stock models as the target.
My idea of a fair comparison would be to take a sample (1 and up) of real-life user needs, and make a comparison using those needs as the target both for the Windows PC and the Mac. The result would be specific to this target, of course, and not a blanket verdict.
True. Thats a good offer. Lenovo and other companies like Acer or Asus sell cheaper, but equally equipped, laptops than apple.
In this case, apple has a faster processor though, and the price difference between a 2.0 and 2.16 is quite big, at least a few hundred bucks. The Macbook also has a better graphics card. But then the lenovo has a bigger HD and higher res.
But anyway, DELL and IBM are more expensive than apple...And somehow DELL, Apple, Sony and IBM are in a different category, than Asus, Acer, Lenovo and the like...(I know that lenovo now produces IBM laptops, but still)
well not that it matters alot, but its nice to have an example to show, when people asks.
Big surprise: the people who buy Macs buy them precisely because of what you call a "'perfect' configuration".
Uh, no.
You have a set of requirements for a product. If a product fills those requirements it is "perfect", To make a buy decision, you fit the avaialble products to those requirements, and the best fitting product gets the nod. Mostly it is not perfect.
Nevermind perfect, the stock Apple models have never even been the best fit for me: all three machines I've bought I have BTO'ed or modified right after purchase (when equivalent BTO option was overpriced).
Just for an example, suppose what you'd really want is high resolution internal display, DVI out and 2GB memory. Other desired features and price have limited your choice to the above Lenovo 3000 N100 and 15" PB. Neither is perfect, you can't get DVI out in the N100, nor high resolution in the PB. For accurate comparison you have to look at the N100 with the missing DVI port, the 15" PB BTO'ed to 2GB with the missing resolution, their price difference, and decide on that.
Therefore, in order to debunk the common notion that Macs are overpriced for what they offer, you have to find comparable models, and therefore, that includes BTO'ing them to the very exact "'perfect' configuration". If you fail to do so, you fail to make a fair comparison.
The very notion that you can blanket prove that "Macs are overpriced" or vice versa is misguided. You can prove that Macs are not overpriced for specific target requirements.
But, if you use any particular product specification as your requirements verbatim, you are going to get a totally unrealistic comparison because real requirements are not that detailed. I want a machine that is fast enough for job X, or perhaps a machine with best price/performance for job X, not a machine with 2GHz Core 2 Duo. If I can save $200 by having a 1.8GHz Core 2 Duo instead, I will, and so will most of the people offered this choice because they're functionally equivalent. No one's going to notice the difference, but they will notice the $200 difference. By your logic, however, a "fair" comparison should include 2GHz Core 2 Duo BTO in the other machine even though most people would rather not have it. When you do that, you're projecting a weakness of your artificial target (the Mac specification) onto the other computer, giving the Mac a free win.
I dig Macs, so naturally I think they will win many (but nowhere near all) reasonable comparisons. There are sets of reasonable requirements that will result in total loss for the Macs. For instance, try the sole requirement of "must have faster than Radeon X1600 graphics".
Guess what: everyone has their own preferences, resources and needs.
No need to guess. I said that in the post you replied to.
The result would be specific to this target, of course, and not a blanket verdict.
But, if you use any particular product specification as your requirements verbatim, you are going to get a totally unrealistic comparison because real requirements are not that detailed. I want a machine that is fast enough for job X, or perhaps a machine with best price/performance for job X, not a machine with 2GHz Core 2 Duo.
Fair enough. I want a machine no thicker than 1.2 inches and no heavier than 6 lbs, with a dedicated graphics card, FireWire, USB 2.0, Bluetooth 2.0+EDR, 802.11g, a 15.4-inch screen with a resolution of 1440x900 or (better yet) higher, an ExpressCard slot, Gigabit Ethernet, dual-link DVI out, a DVD burner and optical audio in and out.
The only specs I actually gave were maximum thickness and weight, minimum screen resolution and the rough screen size. The rest is crucial feature bullet points.
Good luck finding me a machine significantly below the MacBook Pro's price point.