Hey everyone. I've been lurking in this post and felt like it was time for me to get a few things off my chest about the state of these hi-def formats and to address some of the misinformation being spread about the consoles or add fuel to the fire, however you see it is fine.
My setup is not great but I'm pretty proud of it. I purchased a Samsung HPR4272 plasma tv last year and got both the XBOX 360 and the PS3 at launch(well two weeks after).
I work in the VG industry and have a vested as well as personal interest in seeing both of these consoles do well (although I'm partial to the PS3 since it's my newest toy). I'll try to shed some unbiased light on the situation with the consoles and how that relates to HD-DVD vs Blu-ray.
First and foremost, the PS3 and the 360 are both awesome machines and will serve their owners well. As far as the hardware and the manufacturers' commitments to making these consoles the centerpiece of your Entertainment Center go they are leaps and bounds above their predecessors. Software is just starting to come into its own, which is why the Wii can even come out right now.
Contrary to the information that is being spread around here, the 360 is not kicking the PS3's ass. In reality, these two are both being bested by the Wii - an almost perfect parallel to the Blu-ray vs. HD-DVD vs SD-DVD race that is currently going on. When the XBOX 360 launched in 2005, with no "next-gen" competition, it sold only 607,000 units in North America. The PS3 has been estimated to sell 750,000 units in North America in about the same time period and in the midst of a 3-way race no less.
Yes, it is possible to find PS3s on store shelves now. Please, please keep mentioning this. Most consumers aren't thinking of it in the same way that the Blu-ray/HD-DVD proponents are. They remember last year and feel like they won't have a chance to get a PS3 until March and don't want to needlessly go into a store "yet again" only to be treated like an idiot for inquiring about its availability. I also think that it is going over some peoples' heads that Sony was able to turn less than 200,000 available units at launch into 750,000 in a month and a half with supply still coming in every 1-2 weeks.
Unfortunately for Sony I wouldn't recommend the PS3 just yet to anyone that does not have or is not planning on purchasing an HDTV as large or larger than 50" or one that can accept 1080p inputs. The 360 games are looking better and better but have a lot less going on than the PS3 Games (RFOM or MotorStorm particularly). At screen sizes under 50" (and without 1080p), it's hard to say that one looks better than the other and the large number of dynamic objects as well as higher resolutions aren't as impressive. With the price factor, the larger community, and larger game selection the 360 is a no brainer for most HDTV owners. However as Sony's exclusives come into play, I'm sure it won't be as cut and dry in the future.
This problem also carries itself over to HD movies. Without 1080p or a large screen, there is not a big enough jump between a current movie on Blu-ray and a good upconverted DVD (this is not to say that new releases won't increase the gap). The same can be said for HD-DVD on the 360. I'm not sure if everyone here is an AV enthusiast, but I can tell you that more than half of my office was annoyed that most of the movies will "feature" black bars because the 16:9 aspect ratio of HDTVs does not match up with the aspect ratios the movies were recorded in. I foresee it taking some time to get most of America used to only using 2/3 of their 27"-36" TV when watching a movie.
Something else I thought should be mentioned is that M$ is definitely in the HD-DVD camp, but they are beholden only to themselves. They may be offering an HD-DVD drive, but they care more about their digital download service where they charge their subscribers for downloading SD and HD movies. So, while people may want to include the HD-DVD drive as an HD-DVD player keep in mind that it really was just another bulletpoint for them to match up with the PS3. They want people to download movies they don't want them to buy/rent hard copies of them.
I'm finding it hard to believe you work in the field you say you do and never mentioned that on launch there was only one high def game on the PS3, and it's highest resolution is 720p, and I think that still holds true, whilst mentioning that "The 360 games are looking better and better" without mentioning resolutions of any games. You seem somewhat uninformed. And frankly I'm not really buying much of anything else you said either.
it's only his 2nd post, let him unload a little more. Anyway, thanks for sharing your personal view of things. When I read that you are working in the business, I thought you're going to spill out some trade secrets for the upcoming CES...... I guess that was my wishful thinking. Eitherway, I do respect everyone's view as long as they can back it up with facts or factual hypothesis..... Welcome to the debate......
I'm finding it hard to believe you work in the field you say you do and never mentioned that on launch there was only one high def game on the PS3, and it's highest resolution is 720p, and I think that still holds true, whilst mentioning that "The 360 games are looking better and better" without mentioning resolutions of any games. You seem somewhat uninformed. And frankly I'm not really buying much of anything else you said either.
Sorry to disappoint. It was my 2nd post and I didn't feel that detailing the launch lineups of either console was productive to the adoption of Blu-ray Vs. HD-DVD. I was wrong. I guess there is an interest and a way to correlate them.
Umm, one high def game on the PS3 and it's highest resolution is 720p!?!? I only mentioned the two I did because they were good ways to guage the difference between the awesome texture/animation route of the 360 and the dynamic worlds and numerous moving objects on the PS3. I guess you are talking about Resistance: Fall of Man - great game by the way. May I ask why you felt the need to cast aside the following 1080p capable games?
Got off topic on my earlier post so will try to reign it in here. The reason I mentioned 1080p and gave my nod to the 360 is because at this time an HD movie is not going to be worth the 50%+ price increase to most people without it or a large TV, especially if they don't have a surround sound system. So if you are a gamer with a nice setup and/or an AV enthusiast looking to get into HD movies then a PS3 is a great investment and will be better for you in the long run. Most people don't fall into this category and will be recommended by almost everyone to either get a 360 or wait (and get the TV first).
Retailers know this, publishers know this, and console manufacturers knows this. Sony made a "future-proof" machine because they didn't and still don't expect the PS2 to become obsolete yet. Most analysts and reviewers have berated them for including the Blu-ray drive because it drove the cost of the machine up but Sony is looking at it as a way to drive the cost of a Blu-ray player down and gather adoption rates much higher than a stand-alone product would allow. They are pumping the supply lines and keeping the stock available (unprecendented for the Playstation Brand which usually drags its feet in North America) because they know that's the only way that AV enthusiasts are going to buy it. If you spent 3k+ on your newest TV and have a setup that is comparable or higher, chances are you do not want to wait in line with college kids willing to camp out a week before a system launches. They are catering to the AV guys because they know they have to appease the studios and make Blu-ray work first in order to force all of the game publishers to write to Blu-ray instead of DVD.
When it comes to games, everyone will tell you dealing with Sony is like pulling teeth and dealing with Microsoft is a walk in the park in comparison. Most publishers (except EA - although it's debatable now) were forced to deal with Sony on Sony's terms and it was rubbed in at every chance. You couldn't catch a break. Microsoft being the new guy and the underdog with big pockets would go out on a limb and provide customer support and relations that were above and beyond Sony even when you were working on a Sony "system-seller".
The next-gen was a clean slate for everyone and pretty much demanded that Sony get on their knees and beg for forgiveness. Sony knew where they stood with publishers but they still wouldn't change their tune. They still gave us the, "FU we're Sony you'll follow us because you can't afford not to". They let go of a lot of exclusives (that some would argue helped make them), they poorly promoted the system at game events, and they launched with a mere fraction of the units they promised to. Some would see this as Sony dropping the ball. Others, like myself, would see this as Sony stating their true agenda - HDMI in both configs, no component cable in package, an FPS as their premier launch game, etc... - Sony wanted the American home theaters first and gamers second.
Damn, I did it again. Anyway, I said all that to say this. Sony is so committed to making Blu-ray work that they teamed up with international rivals, they are willing to sacrifice one of their best brands, and they sold out their homeland. Microsoft is so committed to HD-DVD that they released a digital download service that doesn't require any physical media through XBOX Live and "is rumored" to be releasing a newer version of the 360 with HDMI connect and 6x more HD space. The war really boils down to Toshiba and Universal against the rest of the world, with Microsoft financing HD-DVD propoganda to buy time for their Home and Entertainment Division. HD-DVD holds out as long as Microsoft keeps promoting the war but in the long run it is set up to fail. Which with the release of the Zune, them hitting their oh so important "10 million" XBOX 360 number, and the emergence of Live Anywhere suggests that it will be coming a lot sooner than anyone expects.
Doesn't the HD-DVD viewing condition really depends on the user?.... It is so subjective to set up.... There is a THX recommended (screen diagnal size)/(viewing distance) within the allowable viewing angle..... However, it also depends on the individual eye sight.... some people can see more/less than you and I.... Either way.... for any display ranging from 40" to 50" with viewing distance of 4 to 10 feet, there's no mistake about being able to tell HD vs. SD content. Whether one has 720p or 1080p screen.
Doesn't the HD-DVD viewing condition really depends on the user?.... It is so subjective to set up.... There is a THX recommended (screen diagnal size)/(viewing distance) within the allowable viewing angle..... However, it also depends on the individual eye sight.... some people can see more/less than you and I.... Either way.... for any display ranging from 40" to 50" with viewing distance of 4 to 10 feet, there's no mistake about being able to tell HD vs. SD content. Whether one has 720p or 1080p screen.
Exactly. I have Panasonic 42" 1080i set. Not 1080p. Either way you slice it, the HD content looks much better. Secondly, I bought I PS3 because, well, I like video games and I never had a PS2. The Blu-Ray drive is really a bonus for me. I'll post on how it looks tonight...I'm hooking everything up for the first time. Must get another HDMI cable first!
Exactly. I have Panasonic 42" 1080i set. Not 1080p. Either way you slice it, the HD content looks much better.
Yep, the 1080 part of 1080i or 1080p is what's really most important. As long as a 1080-line display device does half way decent de-interlacing, the difference between 1080i and 1080p is subtle at best.
Doesn't the HD-DVD viewing condition really depends on the user?.... It is so subjective to set up.... There is a THX recommended (screen diagnal size)/(viewing distance) within the allowable viewing angle..... However, it also depends on the individual eye sight.... some people can see more/less than you and I.... Either way.... for any display ranging from 40" to 50" with viewing distance of 4 to 10 feet, there's no mistake about being able to tell HD vs. SD content. Whether one has 720p or 1080p screen.
I guess we could talk about eye charts (some people have 20:20 (normal vision), some baseball players have 20:10, and I have 20:400 (unaided)) or angular resolution, but in general it does come down to angular resolution, so the distance one is from the object determines how much detail one sees. For instance, you are usually 1-2 feet from your computer monitor, and perhaps 5 (kinda close for games) to 15 feet (kinda far for home theater) for viewing your TV. But in either case the angular resoluton is the same, stand 30 feet (or so) from a 60 inch HDTV and I doubt most people would know if the signal being fed to the TV were SD or HD because you don't have sufficient angular resolution at that distance.
The other aspect of vision (and hearing) is how you process the raw data, how observant you are. This has some relevance to this whole HD-DVD versus Blu-Ray debate in the discussion about compression artifacts, if you have trained your eyes/mind to look for the slightest artifact versus someone who has not, see what I mean. For me, if I don't have my "must see compression artifacts" knob set to it's highest setting, it's amazing what I wouldn't notice in "normal" viewing.
If you aren't looking for the details, you might not see the details, or you can't see the details, even though they are there.
Exactly. I have Panasonic 42" 1080i set. Not 1080p. Either way you slice it, the HD content looks much better. Secondly, I bought I PS3 because, well, I like video games and I never had a PS2. The Blu-Ray drive is really a bonus for me. I'll post on how it looks tonight...I'm hooking everything up for the first time. Must get another HDMI cable first!
Hm... If your panny is a PDP 42", I don't think there is a 1080i set model. It would accept 1080i doesn't mean it will properly display 1080i, which is 1080p. Technically, 1080i processed the wrong way would give you 540p only or bobbing (line doubling) instead of weaving which happens on current HDTV's.
On your display, 1080i from PS3 may not do justice. if PS3 would scale to your display native resolution, then things would look better/sharper. However, the PS3 does not scale and that's the limitation of the gaming console acting like a optical disc movie player.
Hm... If your panny is a PDP 42", I don't think there is a 1080i set model. It would accept 1080i doesn't mean it will properly display 1080i, which is 1080p. Technically, 1080i processed the wrong way would give you 540p only or bobbing (line doubling) instead of weaving which happens on current HDTV's.
On your display, 1080i from PS3 may not do justice. if PS3 would scale to your display native resolution, then things would look better/sharper. However, the PS3 does not scale and that's the limitation of the gaming console acting like a optical disc movie player.
We'll, I see how it looks. Eventually everything will run through at Denon AVR, one that can uconvert and upscale video. That's a little ways off though.
In the PS3 availability vein, I was at Meijer today and they had 8 in stock. 4 20Gb and 4 60 Gb. Individual units as far as I could tell. However, I don't know what the "bundle" referred to several times in this thread is, so I could be mistaken I guess (but I don't think so).
Exactly. I have Panasonic 42" 1080i set. Not 1080p. Either way you slice it, the HD content looks much better. Secondly, I bought I PS3 because, well, I like video games and I never had a PS2. The Blu-Ray drive is really a bonus for me. I'll post on how it looks tonight...I'm hooking everything up for the first time. Must get another HDMI cable first!
I agree with you both. I have a 42" TV as well and can tell the difference easily. To some degree how much of a difference does depend on the person and distance from television. The reason why I say 50"+ and/or 1080p is because most people are going to be looking for the same kind of jump that broadcast TV to HDTV gave. But it's not as apparent from DVD (especially upscaled DVDs) to HD-DVDs/ Blurays regardless of the viewing distance. IMO, with the batch of movies I've seen on both formats (upscaled through XBOX 360 DVD/PS3 Blu-ray)* if you have under 50", you can get away with watching upscaled DVDs and get over that it's not HD. However, when we tested both versions of "Blackhawk Down" on a 50" Panasonic DLP the difference was much more apparent. The added sharpness really makes a difference because the screen is almost a third larger with the same amount of pixels. At this size, everyone sees a noticeable change which makes paying extra or waiting for the HD version much more pallatable.
I agree with you both. I have a 42" TV as well and can tell the difference easily. To some degree how much of a difference does depend on the person and distance from television. The reason why I say 50"+ and/or 1080p is because most people are going to be looking for the same kind of jump that broadcast TV to HDTV gave. But it's not as apparent from DVD (especially upscaled DVDs) to HD-DVDs/ Blurays regardless of the viewing distance. IMO, with the batch of movies I've seen on both formats (upscaled through XBOX 360 DVD/PS3 Blu-ray)* if you have under 50", you can get away with watching upscaled DVDs and get over that it's not HD. However, when we tested both versions of "Blackhawk Down" on a 50" Panasonic DLP the difference was much more apparent. The added sharpness really makes a difference because the screen is almost a third larger with the same amount of pixels. At this size, everyone sees a noticeable change which makes paying extra or waiting for the HD version much more pallatable.
As much as it is important to have the right size of display, the right source of view material can play even bigger role. Check out King Kong and Hulk in HD-DVD on 1080p display.... there's no other source material available that can match the jaw dropping PQ, not even from any of BD titles being offered as of now. Some source material is in the class of it's own.... beyond Hi-Def.
As much as it is important to have the right size of display, the right source of view material can play even bigger role. Check out King Kong and Hulk in HD-DVD on 1080p display.... there's no other source material available that can match the jaw dropping PQ, not even from any of BD titles being offered as of now. Some source material is in the class of it's own.... beyond Hi-Def.
I'll check it out. Blackhawk Down was praised by the Blu-ray guys at avsforum.com as being a top tier PQ title so I chose that one to do the comparison.
On a side note, when I got my PS3 I couldn't wait for Netflix to get the Blu-rays to my house so I went to Blockbuster and rented one of their titles. They tried to get me to sign up for their online stuff but I didn't want to waste time. Does anyone on this forum use Blockbuster's online service? I've noticed that it is cheaper than Netflix and in my case would be more convenient since my wife prefers to select stuff in a store and it's right up the street. Can anyone that uses it or knows someone that uses it offer a comparison to Netflix?
Contrary to the information that is being spread around here, the 360 is not kicking the PS3's ass. In reality, these two are both being bested by the Wii - an almost perfect parallel to the Blu-ray vs. HD-DVD vs SD-DVD race that is currently going on. When the XBOX 360 launched in 2005, with no "next-gen" competition, it sold only 607,000 units in North America. The PS3 has been estimated to sell 750,000 units in North America in about the same time period and in the midst of a 3-way race no less.
Yes, it is possible to find PS3s on store shelves now. Please, please keep mentioning this. Most consumers aren't thinking of it in the same way that the Blu-ray/HD-DVD proponents are. They remember last year and feel like they won't have a chance to get a PS3 until March and don't want to needlessly go into a store "yet again" only to be treated like an idiot for inquiring about its availability. I also think that it is going over some peoples' heads that Sony was able to turn less than 200,000 available units at launch into 750,000 in a month and a half with supply still coming in every 1-2 weeks.
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uhh the xbox 360 launched in all 3 territories and had limited supply for a long time so it really isn't a straight comparison of demand (kicking ass on either side). the 700k isn't even a definite. also its of importance to realize the ps3 is sitting on floors right now either because their supply is meeting demand or people are just lacking interest. your theory on why consoles may be available is pretty comical to be honest.
anyways, the importance really isn't about launch figures because if the 360 had a million units to sell to the NA market on launch they would have sold all of it. if sony is starting to meet demand at close to a million units right after launch (assuming this is what is going on) then thats a problem.
Hm... If your panny is a PDP 42", I don't think there is a 1080i set model. It would accept 1080i doesn't mean it will properly display 1080i, which is 1080p. Technically, 1080i processed the wrong way would give you 540p only or bobbing (line doubling) instead of weaving which happens on current HDTV's.
On your display, 1080i from PS3 may not do justice. if PS3 would scale to your display native resolution, then things would look better/sharper. However, the PS3 does not scale and that's the limitation of the gaming console acting like a optical disc movie player.
Well my set accepted 1080p. My report is mixed though.
I tried Madden and I must say, it looks incredible. I'm going to try Resistance today.
I also watched the BRD of Talledega Nights. I was less than pleased. The film had a grainy look, which I don't really understand. Have you seen this before, and if so, what is the issue? I'm connected via HDMI, by the way. I'm not sure if the grain is on the film (could be). It wasn't present all the time, which is what makes me wonder about it. Fade in and fade out were not smooth either, which I've seen occasionally with other movie. I don't know the term for it, but it's almost like the lighting was not even...like it was blocky or pixelated.
This system is a big adjustment for me as I never even owned a PS2. More later.
Edit: I am still confused on the 1080i issue. My understanding was that my set couldn't accept 1080p. I'm still missing something....
Comments
My setup is not great but I'm pretty proud of it. I purchased a Samsung HPR4272 plasma tv last year and got both the XBOX 360 and the PS3 at launch(well two weeks after).
I work in the VG industry and have a vested as well as personal interest in seeing both of these consoles do well (although I'm partial to the PS3 since it's my newest toy). I'll try to shed some unbiased light on the situation with the consoles and how that relates to HD-DVD vs Blu-ray.
First and foremost, the PS3 and the 360 are both awesome machines and will serve their owners well. As far as the hardware and the manufacturers' commitments to making these consoles the centerpiece of your Entertainment Center go they are leaps and bounds above their predecessors. Software is just starting to come into its own, which is why the Wii can even come out right now.
Contrary to the information that is being spread around here, the 360 is not kicking the PS3's ass. In reality, these two are both being bested by the Wii - an almost perfect parallel to the Blu-ray vs. HD-DVD vs SD-DVD race that is currently going on. When the XBOX 360 launched in 2005, with no "next-gen" competition, it sold only 607,000 units in North America. The PS3 has been estimated to sell 750,000 units in North America in about the same time period and in the midst of a 3-way race no less.
Yes, it is possible to find PS3s on store shelves now. Please, please keep mentioning this. Most consumers aren't thinking of it in the same way that the Blu-ray/HD-DVD proponents are. They remember last year and feel like they won't have a chance to get a PS3 until March and don't want to needlessly go into a store "yet again" only to be treated like an idiot for inquiring about its availability. I also think that it is going over some peoples' heads that Sony was able to turn less than 200,000 available units at launch into 750,000 in a month and a half with supply still coming in every 1-2 weeks.
Unfortunately for Sony I wouldn't recommend the PS3 just yet to anyone that does not have or is not planning on purchasing an HDTV as large or larger than 50" or one that can accept 1080p inputs. The 360 games are looking better and better but have a lot less going on than the PS3 Games (RFOM or MotorStorm particularly). At screen sizes under 50" (and without 1080p), it's hard to say that one looks better than the other and the large number of dynamic objects as well as higher resolutions aren't as impressive. With the price factor, the larger community, and larger game selection the 360 is a no brainer for most HDTV owners. However as Sony's exclusives come into play, I'm sure it won't be as cut and dry in the future.
This problem also carries itself over to HD movies. Without 1080p or a large screen, there is not a big enough jump between a current movie on Blu-ray and a good upconverted DVD (this is not to say that new releases won't increase the gap). The same can be said for HD-DVD on the 360. I'm not sure if everyone here is an AV enthusiast, but I can tell you that more than half of my office was annoyed that most of the movies will "feature" black bars because the 16:9 aspect ratio of HDTVs does not match up with the aspect ratios the movies were recorded in. I foresee it taking some time to get most of America used to only using 2/3 of their 27"-36" TV when watching a movie.
Something else I thought should be mentioned is that M$ is definitely in the HD-DVD camp, but they are beholden only to themselves. They may be offering an HD-DVD drive, but they care more about their digital download service where they charge their subscribers for downloading SD and HD movies. So, while people may want to include the HD-DVD drive as an HD-DVD player keep in mind that it really was just another bulletpoint for them to match up with the PS3. They want people to download movies they don't want them to buy/rent hard copies of them.
it's only his 2nd post, let him unload a little more. Anyway, thanks for sharing your personal view of things. When I read that you are working in the business, I thought you're going to spill out some trade secrets for the upcoming CES...... I guess that was my wishful thinking. Eitherway, I do respect everyone's view as long as they can back it up with facts or factual hypothesis..... Welcome to the debate......
TotalHD is a hybrid disc with Bluray on one side, HD DVD on the other. Keeps everyone happy.
I'm finding it hard to believe you work in the field you say you do and never mentioned that on launch there was only one high def game on the PS3, and it's highest resolution is 720p, and I think that still holds true, whilst mentioning that "The 360 games are looking better and better" without mentioning resolutions of any games. You seem somewhat uninformed. And frankly I'm not really buying much of anything else you said either.
Sorry to disappoint. It was my 2nd post and I didn't feel that detailing the launch lineups of either console was productive to the adoption of Blu-ray Vs. HD-DVD. I was wrong. I guess there is an interest and a way to correlate them.
Umm, one high def game on the PS3 and it's highest resolution is 720p!?!? I only mentioned the two I did because they were good ways to guage the difference between the awesome texture/animation route of the 360 and the dynamic worlds and numerous moving objects on the PS3. I guess you are talking about Resistance: Fall of Man - great game by the way. May I ask why you felt the need to cast aside the following 1080p capable games?
Marvel: Ultimate Alliance
Tony Hawk's Project 8
NBA 07
NBA 2K7
Genji
Full Auto 2
Retailers know this, publishers know this, and console manufacturers knows this. Sony made a "future-proof" machine because they didn't and still don't expect the PS2 to become obsolete yet. Most analysts and reviewers have berated them for including the Blu-ray drive because it drove the cost of the machine up but Sony is looking at it as a way to drive the cost of a Blu-ray player down and gather adoption rates much higher than a stand-alone product would allow. They are pumping the supply lines and keeping the stock available (unprecendented for the Playstation Brand which usually drags its feet in North America) because they know that's the only way that AV enthusiasts are going to buy it. If you spent 3k+ on your newest TV and have a setup that is comparable or higher, chances are you do not want to wait in line with college kids willing to camp out a week before a system launches. They are catering to the AV guys because they know they have to appease the studios and make Blu-ray work first in order to force all of the game publishers to write to Blu-ray instead of DVD.
When it comes to games, everyone will tell you dealing with Sony is like pulling teeth and dealing with Microsoft is a walk in the park in comparison. Most publishers (except EA - although it's debatable now) were forced to deal with Sony on Sony's terms and it was rubbed in at every chance. You couldn't catch a break. Microsoft being the new guy and the underdog with big pockets would go out on a limb and provide customer support and relations that were above and beyond Sony even when you were working on a Sony "system-seller".
The next-gen was a clean slate for everyone and pretty much demanded that Sony get on their knees and beg for forgiveness. Sony knew where they stood with publishers but they still wouldn't change their tune. They still gave us the, "FU we're Sony you'll follow us because you can't afford not to". They let go of a lot of exclusives (that some would argue helped make them), they poorly promoted the system at game events, and they launched with a mere fraction of the units they promised to. Some would see this as Sony dropping the ball. Others, like myself, would see this as Sony stating their true agenda - HDMI in both configs, no component cable in package, an FPS as their premier launch game, etc... - Sony wanted the American home theaters first and gamers second.
Damn, I did it again. Anyway, I said all that to say this. Sony is so committed to making Blu-ray work that they teamed up with international rivals, they are willing to sacrifice one of their best brands, and they sold out their homeland. Microsoft is so committed to HD-DVD that they released a digital download service that doesn't require any physical media through XBOX Live and "is rumored" to be releasing a newer version of the 360 with HDMI connect and 6x more HD space. The war really boils down to Toshiba and Universal against the rest of the world, with Microsoft financing HD-DVD propoganda to buy time for their Home and Entertainment Division. HD-DVD holds out as long as Microsoft keeps promoting the war but in the long run it is set up to fail. Which with the release of the Zune, them hitting their oh so important "10 million" XBOX 360 number, and the emergence of Live Anywhere suggests that it will be coming a lot sooner than anyone expects.
Doesn't the HD-DVD viewing condition really depends on the user?.... It is so subjective to set up.... There is a THX recommended (screen diagnal size)/(viewing distance) within the allowable viewing angle..... However, it also depends on the individual eye sight.... some people can see more/less than you and I.... Either way.... for any display ranging from 40" to 50" with viewing distance of 4 to 10 feet, there's no mistake about being able to tell HD vs. SD content. Whether one has 720p or 1080p screen.
Exactly. I have Panasonic 42" 1080i set. Not 1080p. Either way you slice it, the HD content looks much better. Secondly, I bought I PS3 because, well, I like video games and I never had a PS2. The Blu-Ray drive is really a bonus for me. I'll post on how it looks tonight...I'm hooking everything up for the first time. Must get another HDMI cable first!
Exactly. I have Panasonic 42" 1080i set. Not 1080p. Either way you slice it, the HD content looks much better.
Yep, the 1080 part of 1080i or 1080p is what's really most important. As long as a 1080-line display device does half way decent de-interlacing, the difference between 1080i and 1080p is subtle at best.
Doesn't the HD-DVD viewing condition really depends on the user?.... It is so subjective to set up.... There is a THX recommended (screen diagnal size)/(viewing distance) within the allowable viewing angle..... However, it also depends on the individual eye sight.... some people can see more/less than you and I.... Either way.... for any display ranging from 40" to 50" with viewing distance of 4 to 10 feet, there's no mistake about being able to tell HD vs. SD content. Whether one has 720p or 1080p screen.
I guess we could talk about eye charts (some people have 20:20 (normal vision), some baseball players have 20:10, and I have 20:400 (unaided)) or angular resolution, but in general it does come down to angular resolution, so the distance one is from the object determines how much detail one sees. For instance, you are usually 1-2 feet from your computer monitor, and perhaps 5 (kinda close for games) to 15 feet (kinda far for home theater) for viewing your TV. But in either case the angular resoluton is the same, stand 30 feet (or so) from a 60 inch HDTV and I doubt most people would know if the signal being fed to the TV were SD or HD because you don't have sufficient angular resolution at that distance.
The other aspect of vision (and hearing) is how you process the raw data, how observant you are. This has some relevance to this whole HD-DVD versus Blu-Ray debate in the discussion about compression artifacts, if you have trained your eyes/mind to look for the slightest artifact versus someone who has not, see
If you aren't looking for the details, you might not see the details, or you can't see the details, even though they are there.
Exactly. I have Panasonic 42" 1080i set. Not 1080p. Either way you slice it, the HD content looks much better. Secondly, I bought I PS3 because, well, I like video games and I never had a PS2. The Blu-Ray drive is really a bonus for me. I'll post on how it looks tonight...I'm hooking everything up for the first time. Must get another HDMI cable first!
Hm... If your panny is a PDP 42", I don't think there is a 1080i set model. It would accept 1080i doesn't mean it will properly display 1080i, which is 1080p. Technically, 1080i processed the wrong way would give you 540p only or bobbing (line doubling) instead of weaving which happens on current HDTV's.
On your display, 1080i from PS3 may not do justice. if PS3 would scale to your display native resolution, then things would look better/sharper. However, the PS3 does not scale and that's the limitation of the gaming console acting like a optical disc movie player.
Hm... If your panny is a PDP 42", I don't think there is a 1080i set model. It would accept 1080i doesn't mean it will properly display 1080i, which is 1080p. Technically, 1080i processed the wrong way would give you 540p only or bobbing (line doubling) instead of weaving which happens on current HDTV's.
On your display, 1080i from PS3 may not do justice. if PS3 would scale to your display native resolution, then things would look better/sharper. However, the PS3 does not scale and that's the limitation of the gaming console acting like a optical disc movie player.
We'll, I see how it looks. Eventually everything will run through at Denon AVR, one that can uconvert and upscale video. That's a little ways off though.
huh? what are you talking? how does that have anything to do with what i posted?
Dude, I was replying to hmurchison, and referring to how he tried to back up an argument by stating this:
The Xbox 360 is also outselling the PS3.
Then I said:
The 360 has been out a year longer than the PS3...
Then you said:
you couldn't get a 360 well into march after launch, bundle or not.
getting your hands on a ps3 seems to be a lot easier
Then what I said replying to that was referring to what hmurchison said in the first place about the 360 selling better than the PS3.
Yes, but it was still widely available for 9 months longer than the PS3.
Stating that the 360 has more titles than the PS3 is no way to back up an argument.
You walked your way right into that without even realizing that I was referring to hmurchison. Wow...
Exactly. I have Panasonic 42" 1080i set. Not 1080p. Either way you slice it, the HD content looks much better. Secondly, I bought I PS3 because, well, I like video games and I never had a PS2. The Blu-Ray drive is really a bonus for me. I'll post on how it looks tonight...I'm hooking everything up for the first time. Must get another HDMI cable first!
I agree with you both. I have a 42" TV as well and can tell the difference easily. To some degree how much of a difference does depend on the person and distance from television. The reason why I say 50"+ and/or 1080p is because most people are going to be looking for the same kind of jump that broadcast TV to HDTV gave. But it's not as apparent from DVD (especially upscaled DVDs) to HD-DVDs/ Blurays regardless of the viewing distance. IMO, with the batch of movies I've seen on both formats (upscaled through XBOX 360 DVD/PS3 Blu-ray)* if you have under 50", you can get away with watching upscaled DVDs and get over that it's not HD. However, when we tested both versions of "Blackhawk Down" on a 50" Panasonic DLP the difference was much more apparent. The added sharpness really makes a difference because the screen is almost a third larger with the same amount of pixels. At this size, everyone sees a noticeable change which makes paying extra or waiting for the HD version much more pallatable.
*"Four Brothers", "Devil Wears Prada", "Kingdom of Heaven", "Talledega Nights", "Blackhawk Down", "Mission Impossible III"
I agree with you both. I have a 42" TV as well and can tell the difference easily. To some degree how much of a difference does depend on the person and distance from television. The reason why I say 50"+ and/or 1080p is because most people are going to be looking for the same kind of jump that broadcast TV to HDTV gave. But it's not as apparent from DVD (especially upscaled DVDs) to HD-DVDs/ Blurays regardless of the viewing distance. IMO, with the batch of movies I've seen on both formats (upscaled through XBOX 360 DVD/PS3 Blu-ray)* if you have under 50", you can get away with watching upscaled DVDs and get over that it's not HD. However, when we tested both versions of "Blackhawk Down" on a 50" Panasonic DLP the difference was much more apparent. The added sharpness really makes a difference because the screen is almost a third larger with the same amount of pixels. At this size, everyone sees a noticeable change which makes paying extra or waiting for the HD version much more pallatable.
*"Four Brothers", "Devil Wears Prada", "Kingdom of Heaven", "Talledega Nights", "Blackhawk Down", "Mission Impossible III"
As much as it is important to have the right size of display, the right source of view material can play even bigger role. Check out King Kong and Hulk in HD-DVD on 1080p display.... there's no other source material available that can match the jaw dropping PQ, not even from any of BD titles being offered as of now. Some source material is in the class of it's own.... beyond Hi-Def.
As much as it is important to have the right size of display, the right source of view material can play even bigger role. Check out King Kong and Hulk in HD-DVD on 1080p display.... there's no other source material available that can match the jaw dropping PQ, not even from any of BD titles being offered as of now. Some source material is in the class of it's own.... beyond Hi-Def.
I'll check it out. Blackhawk Down was praised by the Blu-ray guys at avsforum.com as being a top tier PQ title so I chose that one to do the comparison.
On a side note, when I got my PS3 I couldn't wait for Netflix to get the Blu-rays to my house so I went to Blockbuster and rented one of their titles. They tried to get me to sign up for their online stuff but I didn't want to waste time. Does anyone on this forum use Blockbuster's online service? I've noticed that it is cheaper than Netflix and in my case would be more convenient since my wife prefers to select stuff in a store and it's right up the street. Can anyone that uses it or knows someone that uses it offer a comparison to Netflix?
Contrary to the information that is being spread around here, the 360 is not kicking the PS3's ass. In reality, these two are both being bested by the Wii - an almost perfect parallel to the Blu-ray vs. HD-DVD vs SD-DVD race that is currently going on. When the XBOX 360 launched in 2005, with no "next-gen" competition, it sold only 607,000 units in North America. The PS3 has been estimated to sell 750,000 units in North America in about the same time period and in the midst of a 3-way race no less.
Yes, it is possible to find PS3s on store shelves now. Please, please keep mentioning this. Most consumers aren't thinking of it in the same way that the Blu-ray/HD-DVD proponents are. They remember last year and feel like they won't have a chance to get a PS3 until March and don't want to needlessly go into a store "yet again" only to be treated like an idiot for inquiring about its availability. I also think that it is going over some peoples' heads that Sony was able to turn less than 200,000 available units at launch into 750,000 in a month and a half with supply still coming in every 1-2 weeks.
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uhh the xbox 360 launched in all 3 territories and had limited supply for a long time so it really isn't a straight comparison of demand (kicking ass on either side). the 700k isn't even a definite. also its of importance to realize the ps3 is sitting on floors right now either because their supply is meeting demand or people are just lacking interest. your theory on why consoles may be available is pretty comical to be honest.
anyways, the importance really isn't about launch figures because if the 360 had a million units to sell to the NA market on launch they would have sold all of it. if sony is starting to meet demand at close to a million units right after launch (assuming this is what is going on) then thats a problem.
http://www.joystiq.com/2007/01/06/ps...uy-com-still/- SDW what more do you want from me? u want me to get a best buy representative to give you a ringa ding ding?
http://www.joystiq.com/2007/01/06/ps...uy-com-still/- SDW what more do you want from me? u want me to get a best buy representative to give you a ringa ding ding?
Bad link. You need to take that dash off the end for the link to work: http://www.joystiq.com/2007/01/06/ps...buy-com-still/
Hm... If your panny is a PDP 42", I don't think there is a 1080i set model. It would accept 1080i doesn't mean it will properly display 1080i, which is 1080p. Technically, 1080i processed the wrong way would give you 540p only or bobbing (line doubling) instead of weaving which happens on current HDTV's.
On your display, 1080i from PS3 may not do justice. if PS3 would scale to your display native resolution, then things would look better/sharper. However, the PS3 does not scale and that's the limitation of the gaming console acting like a optical disc movie player.
Well my set accepted 1080p. My report is mixed though.
I tried Madden and I must say, it looks incredible. I'm going to try Resistance today.
I also watched the BRD of Talledega Nights. I was less than pleased. The film had a grainy look, which I don't really understand. Have you seen this before, and if so, what is the issue? I'm connected via HDMI, by the way. I'm not sure if the grain is on the film (could be). It wasn't present all the time, which is what makes me wonder about it. Fade in and fade out were not smooth either, which I've seen occasionally with other movie. I don't know the term for it, but it's almost like the lighting was not even...like it was blocky or pixelated.
This system is a big adjustment for me as I never even owned a PS2. More later.
Edit: I am still confused on the 1080i issue. My understanding was that my set couldn't accept 1080p. I'm still missing something....