While being a flawed piece of software, there is no major piece of software that can provide what rhino does in terms of dimensionally accurate complex modelling imho.
I've used Rhino, and I have to say that I think FormZ beats it as far as dimensional accuracy. As far as being the mecca of spline/nurbs modeling, I still have to say Universe Modeler 5.0. Nothing else I've ever used allows the same level of direct editing of NURBS primitive within a surface or solid. It can make your hair gray, but for spline modeling power users (who are rare let me tell you) it's unbeatable.
Ummm....if you read my post again, you'll see that the 'industry standard' argument is a non-issue as VectorWorks, ArchiCAD and many others solved the file format issue a long time ago.
I've sent many files to engineers who use AutoCAD and they never even knew that the file was not created in AutoCAD....
So, really not a problem or issue to be concerned with as far as being compatible with AutoCAD users.....
It is an issue everytime ACAD releases a big update. R14 -> 2000 or '02 -> '03
I may give Vector Works another shot if they will give me a 30 day grace period to try it out. I need upgrade 4 seats and why not go Mac if I can if what you say is true about other companies not knowing the difference.
Another CAD program to learn. Anyone remember Ahslar Vellum here? Now that was a program.
I agree that Apple buying Alias and taking on Maya would have been great. I don't agree with the whole idea of them buying stuff and discontinuing platform support. We criticise others doing that so by be hypocrites and want the same? The only reason I'd like Apple to buy it is so that the Mac platform isn't supported badly, which it currently is.
I keep hearing people talk about the idea that Apple acquiring software and discontinuing that software for other platforms as hypocritical...TOTAL BS!
The reality is that Apple develops software that takes advantage of features built-in to a particular operating system and they write the operating system to take advantage of advances made in hardware inclusive of, but not exclusive to the CPU. On the other hand Microsoft neither writes software that takes advantage of any specific operating system feature nor do they write an operating system that takes advantage of any particular hardware configuration, but then they are particular about writing for an OS other than their own, which has a 90% market share? (How do you think that works?)
Apple spends too much money developing software that works well to waste money on the bottomless software development pit of endless hardware configuration in the Windows world. Personally, I'm more interested in using software that works regardless of where it works. At this particular point the likely-hood is that for high-end applications like Maya, StudioTools, AutoCAD etc. Apple stewardship and their "Turnkey" solution development mentality, which isn't really possible if they have to develop for Windows and Linux, is THE BEST option for consumers that want software that is stable, powerful and intuitive.
IMHO, Imhotep397, I think you should email His Steveness with your suggestion to buy AutoDesk...if you do it now, there's still time for ol' Stevo to announce it at the end of the upcoming MacWorld Keynote speech where he does the "Oh, there's one more thing".....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Imhotep397
I keep hearing people talk about the idea that Apple acquiring software and discontinuing that software for other platforms as hypocritical...TOTAL BS!
[Snip]
Apple spends too much money developing software that works well to waste money on the bottomless software development pit of endless hardware configuration in the Windows world. Personally, I'm more interested in using software that works regardless of where it works. At this particular point the likely-hood is that for high-end applications like Maya, StudioTools, AutoCAD etc. Apple stewardship and their "Turnkey" solution development mentality, which isn't really possible if they have to develop for Windows and Linux, is THE BEST option for consumers that want software that is stable, powerful and intuitive.
IMHO, Imhotep397, I think you should email His Steveness with your suggestion to buy AutoDesk...if you do it now, there's still time for ol' Stevo to announce it at the end of the upcoming MacWorld Keynote speech where he does the "Oh, there's one more thing".....
Don't be bashful...if anyone has Steve's email address feel free to pm me.
AutoBad or AutoCrap, it is THE Standard in my industry. VectorWorks can be the best thing ever but Civil Engineer's and surveyor's are going to use ACad until the day they come and take the HDD's out of their computers.
I recieve production drawings in AutoCad every day and if I said, sorry, we use "X CAD", I would be shutdown in a week.
I just don't get this mentality. A lot of programs can use DXF and DWG, and no one really has to know that you don't use AutoCAD per se.
If Apple wants a well developed/maintained and Cocoa aware NURBS system then solidThinking (originally developed for NeXTSTEP) would be the obvious choice. This would get them heavily into the CAD/CAM engineering markets.
Ummm....if it's not too late, Imhotep could add this request into his email to His Steveness....
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer
If Apple wants a well developed/maintained and Cocoa aware NURBS system then solidThinking (originally developed for NeXTSTEP) would be the obvious choice. This would get them heavily into the CAD/CAM engineering markets.
If Apple wants a well developed/maintained and Cocoa aware NURBS system then solidThinking (originally developed for NeXTSTEP) would be the obvious choice. This would get them heavily into the CAD/CAM engineering markets.
This software is great. Similar capability to rhino somewhat. Doesn't seem too well supported. I really want to get my hands on this software though. Too bad it isn't seeded on bittorrent.
i'm a switcher, architecture student. i was confident about switching to mac for this reason:
ArchiCAD 10, Maxonform PlugIn and Cinema 4D.
Archicad 10 and maxonform are free for students. cinema 4d you can get a decent student license.
I only occasionally use 3 D modelling but soon i would like to have the option of vectorising drawings and manipulating them to create 3d models.
on windows i had a vectoriser, Autocad, rhino, and artlantis. it was big jumble.
i am still experimenting with different vectorisation techniques. not found the best solution.
Autocad, like archmark says, is a heap of updates that lead to a wierd product, that if released as new today would look simply odd
+ oh and ArchiCAD's 2D capabilities are seriously underrated.
i was initially turned off by archicad's template architecture attitude, but once you start looking at gdl it becomes clear that it is very versatile and accurate. esp with C4D and maxonform. it's come a long way since v7, the first i used.
on windows i had a vectoriser, Autocad, rhino, and artlantis. it was big jumble.
i am still experimenting with different vectorisation techniques. not found the best solution.
I'm not really familiar with the term "vectorizer/vectoriser," but I assume you want tools that can turn multiple 2D drawings into a 3D model. I don't mean to beat a dead horse, but FormZ has a decent vectorizer. It's not a cheap piece of software, though, and the student discounted version runs for about US$800, not including a renderer.
basically converting raster images of line drawings (hand drawings and sketches) into vectorial data which can then be manipulated by 3d programs.
currently i am thinking of using illustrator and live trace, but i'm not a huge fan, but ideally i would like a standalone program that does this job with more options.
currently i am thinking of using illustrator and live trace, but i'm not a huge fan, but ideally i would like a standalone program that does this job with more options.
Hmm, that's different than what I thought.
Illustrator's Autotrace is really bad. I can understand where you're coming from, but if it takes four hours or so to do a good, manual trace job, that's probably worth it if the project takes 100+ hours as a whole. It's important for models to have good primitives.
Illustrator's Autotrace is really bad. I can understand where you're coming from, but if it takes four hours or so to do a good, manual trace job, that's probably worth it if the project takes 100+ hours as a whole. It's important for models to have good primitives.
ya true, there are some good raster to vector though, with a bit of tweaking save a lot of time. most of the time i have a bundle of sketches, drawings and paintings that i want to quickly scan, and use them as a starting point for a 3d model, without worrying about scale or accuracy until it becomes a model. if it works it makes it easy to proceed to an architectural project, if not, you have some well thought out architectural notion with threedimensional aspects.
because architectural drawing are for the most part a lot easier to vectorise, and tracing by hand is so time consuming (if you are doing it with a wide rasnge of drawing techniques or whatever)
autodesk has raster design 2007 but something like ravegrid, tratrix (mighty pricey!), would be good but they are aimed at windows. synthetic SA 3.5 sounds useful.
there must be some standalone raster to vector convertors some graphic designers swear by too...
Nobody mentioned Microstation by Bentley, so I thought I'd add my 2 cents. I believe that if Microstation was made for Mac again (they stopped around 10 years ago, I think), a lot of people would use it on the Mac platform. I know of a lot of offices that switched to VW so they could keep using Macs several years ago, but VW isn't great at dealing with larger projects IMHO. Microstation is closer to AutoCAD than VW or Archicad, and can open, edit fully and save dwgs which are without a doubt the industry standard (bye dxf!).
Bentley are missing out on an opportunity to cash in on the Mac architecture market. What ArchiMark says about Archicad being a very different approach to drawing is true, but because of that I'm not sure that a lot of multi-disciplinary offices are ready to make the switch to something that is so different to AutoCAD.
I've been using Vectorworks and Formz for years in an architecture / product design practice- quite a good little combo for 2d drafting and 3d work as long as you don't need photorealism and good animation.
However, I've recently started usin Maya 8. Christ, what an eye opener! The sheer power and feature set has blown me away. For pure visualisation purposes it makes anything else I've used look like toys. I just need to find a good work flow on how to integrate it with the other two packages we use. I'm not sure what the best file type to import into Maya is for 2d drawings: iges, dwg, dxf etc. Anyone got any ideas?
By the way, anyone noticed how the thinking behind Maya's Hypergraph seems very similar to Apple's now deceased (?) Hypertext, or is it just me?
I've read these posts with quite a bit of interest- it's rare to find a Mac thread that encompasses architecture, maya, formz etc. By the way aplnub, I do remember Ashlar Vellum (up to version 7 now on the Mac I think)- yet another program for "the big boys n' girls".
It is an issue everytime ACAD releases a big update. R14 -> 2000 or '02 -> '03
I may give Vector Works another shot if they will give me a 30 day grace period to try it out. I need upgrade 4 seats and why not go Mac if I can if what you say is true about other companies not knowing the difference.
Then there shouldn't be a problem. The 30 day grace period is standard.
Comments
While being a flawed piece of software, there is no major piece of software that can provide what rhino does in terms of dimensionally accurate complex modelling imho.
I've used Rhino, and I have to say that I think FormZ beats it as far as dimensional accuracy. As far as being the mecca of spline/nurbs modeling, I still have to say Universe Modeler 5.0. Nothing else I've ever used allows the same level of direct editing of NURBS primitive within a surface or solid. It can make your hair gray, but for spline modeling power users (who are rare let me tell you) it's unbeatable.
Ummm....if you read my post again, you'll see that the 'industry standard' argument is a non-issue as VectorWorks, ArchiCAD and many others solved the file format issue a long time ago.
I've sent many files to engineers who use AutoCAD and they never even knew that the file was not created in AutoCAD....
So, really not a problem or issue to be concerned with as far as being compatible with AutoCAD users.....
It is an issue everytime ACAD releases a big update. R14 -> 2000 or '02 -> '03
I may give Vector Works another shot if they will give me a 30 day grace period to try it out. I need upgrade 4 seats and why not go Mac if I can if what you say is true about other companies not knowing the difference.
Another CAD program to learn. Anyone remember Ahslar Vellum here? Now that was a program.
The reality is that Apple develops software that takes advantage of features built-in to a particular operating system and they write the operating system to take advantage of advances made in hardware inclusive of, but not exclusive to the CPU. On the other hand Microsoft neither writes software that takes advantage of any specific operating system feature nor do they write an operating system that takes advantage of any particular hardware configuration, but then they are particular about writing for an OS other than their own, which has a 90% market share? (How do you think that works?)
Apple spends too much money developing software that works well to waste money on the bottomless software development pit of endless hardware configuration in the Windows world. Personally, I'm more interested in using software that works regardless of where it works. At this particular point the likely-hood is that for high-end applications like Maya, StudioTools, AutoCAD etc. Apple stewardship and their "Turnkey" solution development mentality, which isn't really possible if they have to develop for Windows and Linux, is THE BEST option for consumers that want software that is stable, powerful and intuitive.
I keep hearing people talk about the idea that Apple acquiring software and discontinuing that software for other platforms as hypocritical...TOTAL BS!
[Snip]
Apple spends too much money developing software that works well to waste money on the bottomless software development pit of endless hardware configuration in the Windows world. Personally, I'm more interested in using software that works regardless of where it works. At this particular point the likely-hood is that for high-end applications like Maya, StudioTools, AutoCAD etc. Apple stewardship and their "Turnkey" solution development mentality, which isn't really possible if they have to develop for Windows and Linux, is THE BEST option for consumers that want software that is stable, powerful and intuitive.
IMHO, Imhotep397, I think you should email His Steveness with your suggestion to buy AutoDesk...if you do it now, there's still time for ol' Stevo to announce it at the end of the upcoming MacWorld Keynote speech where he does the "Oh, there's one more thing".....
Don't be bashful...if anyone has Steve's email address feel free to pm me.
Don't be bashful...if anyone has Steve's email address feel free to pm me.
last I checked it was [email protected]
AutoBad or AutoCrap, it is THE Standard in my industry. VectorWorks can be the best thing ever but Civil Engineer's and surveyor's are going to use ACad until the day they come and take the HDD's out of their computers.
I recieve production drawings in AutoCad every day and if I said, sorry, we use "X CAD", I would be shutdown in a week.
I just don't get this mentality. A lot of programs can use DXF and DWG, and no one really has to know that you don't use AutoCAD per se.
I'm sure he'd love to hear from you now...might take his mind off of the whole options thing and the upcoming keynote addres....
Don't be bashful...if anyone has Steve's email address feel free to pm me.
http://www.solidthinking.com/index_en.htm
If Apple wants a well developed/maintained and Cocoa aware NURBS system then solidThinking (originally developed for NeXTSTEP) would be the obvious choice. This would get them heavily into the CAD/CAM engineering markets.
http://www.solidthinking.com/index_en.htm
If Apple wants a well developed/maintained and Cocoa aware NURBS system then solidThinking (originally developed for NeXTSTEP) would be the obvious choice. This would get them heavily into the CAD/CAM engineering markets.
http://www.solidthinking.com/index_en.htm
This software is great. Similar capability to rhino somewhat. Doesn't seem too well supported. I really want to get my hands on this software though. Too bad it isn't seeded on bittorrent.
ArchiCAD 10, Maxonform PlugIn and Cinema 4D.
Archicad 10 and maxonform are free for students. cinema 4d you can get a decent student license.
I only occasionally use 3 D modelling but soon i would like to have the option of vectorising drawings and manipulating them to create 3d models.
on windows i had a vectoriser, Autocad, rhino, and artlantis. it was big jumble.
i am still experimenting with different vectorisation techniques. not found the best solution.
Autocad, like archmark says, is a heap of updates that lead to a wierd product, that if released as new today would look simply odd
+ oh and ArchiCAD's 2D capabilities are seriously underrated.
i was initially turned off by archicad's template architecture attitude, but once you start looking at gdl it becomes clear that it is very versatile and accurate. esp with C4D and maxonform. it's come a long way since v7, the first i used.
on windows i had a vectoriser, Autocad, rhino, and artlantis. it was big jumble.
i am still experimenting with different vectorisation techniques. not found the best solution.
I'm not really familiar with the term "vectorizer/vectoriser," but I assume you want tools that can turn multiple 2D drawings into a 3D model. I don't mean to beat a dead horse, but FormZ has a decent vectorizer. It's not a cheap piece of software, though, and the student discounted version runs for about US$800, not including a renderer.
currently i am thinking of using illustrator and live trace, but i'm not a huge fan, but ideally i would like a standalone program that does this job with more options.
currently i am thinking of using illustrator and live trace, but i'm not a huge fan, but ideally i would like a standalone program that does this job with more options.
Hmm, that's different than what I thought.
Illustrator's Autotrace is really bad. I can understand where you're coming from, but if it takes four hours or so to do a good, manual trace job, that's probably worth it if the project takes 100+ hours as a whole. It's important for models to have good primitives.
Hmm, that's different than what I thought.
Illustrator's Autotrace is really bad. I can understand where you're coming from, but if it takes four hours or so to do a good, manual trace job, that's probably worth it if the project takes 100+ hours as a whole. It's important for models to have good primitives.
ya true, there are some good raster to vector though, with a bit of tweaking save a lot of time. most of the time i have a bundle of sketches, drawings and paintings that i want to quickly scan, and use them as a starting point for a 3d model, without worrying about scale or accuracy until it becomes a model. if it works it makes it easy to proceed to an architectural project, if not, you have some well thought out architectural notion with threedimensional aspects.
because architectural drawing are for the most part a lot easier to vectorise, and tracing by hand is so time consuming (if you are doing it with a wide rasnge of drawing techniques or whatever)
autodesk has raster design 2007 but something like ravegrid, tratrix (mighty pricey!), would be good but they are aimed at windows. synthetic SA 3.5 sounds useful.
there must be some standalone raster to vector convertors some graphic designers swear by too...
Bentley are missing out on an opportunity to cash in on the Mac architecture market. What ArchiMark says about Archicad being a very different approach to drawing is true, but because of that I'm not sure that a lot of multi-disciplinary offices are ready to make the switch to something that is so different to AutoCAD.
However, I've recently started usin Maya 8. Christ, what an eye opener! The sheer power and feature set has blown me away. For pure visualisation purposes it makes anything else I've used look like toys. I just need to find a good work flow on how to integrate it with the other two packages we use. I'm not sure what the best file type to import into Maya is for 2d drawings: iges, dwg, dxf etc. Anyone got any ideas?
By the way, anyone noticed how the thinking behind Maya's Hypergraph seems very similar to Apple's now deceased (?) Hypertext, or is it just me?
I've read these posts with quite a bit of interest- it's rare to find a Mac thread that encompasses architecture, maya, formz etc. By the way aplnub, I do remember Ashlar Vellum (up to version 7 now on the Mac I think)- yet another program for "the big boys n' girls".
It is an issue everytime ACAD releases a big update. R14 -> 2000 or '02 -> '03
I may give Vector Works another shot if they will give me a 30 day grace period to try it out. I need upgrade 4 seats and why not go Mac if I can if what you say is true about other companies not knowing the difference.
Then there shouldn't be a problem. The 30 day grace period is standard.