Just keep the little thing, but if you really are bothered by it and can't sleep at night, it might be in your best interest to call them just to clear your conscience.
In light of my sarcastic offer, I thought I should clear a couple things up for you. All of you offering legal advice are doing so with bad form. I agree that it should just be apple's problem since it was their mistake, however that is not in fact the law.
[quote] Anyway, it's not illegal, if someone doesn't invoice you you don't have to pay (as far as i can tell) <hr></blockquote>
Actually no. You do have an obligation to return the extra iPod whether or not you are ever "invoiced." Apple did make a mistake, and yeah it seems like it should just be their problem, but in reality, if you keep it you could be charged with both theft and fraud, not to mention subject to a lawsuit.
[quote] dude you're actually going to return that thing?
you gotta be a monk of something, amazing. <hr></blockquote>
It amazes me that doing the right thing is such a foreign concept to some people. I no longer wonder where the problems of our culture come from when I read moronic comments from idiots like this.
[quote] Years ago, I was receiving cookware in the mail from a company I had never heard of. I tried calling them, but they had no record of the items being sent. I asked a lawyer if I was being scammed, and might eventually be presented with a large bill. He told me that a person can legally keep any unsolicited package that came to them in the mail.
You might ask a lawyer in your state if this still applies. <hr></blockquote>
Well, it is good to see someone who is at least remotely on target. And you also offered the right advice.
Since I am a lawyer, I'll clear it up a bit. What you were told is true, that an uncolicited pacakge that arrives at your home can be considered fair game. The reason for this is because generally this is some sort of advertising ploy, and you have the right to accept whatever gift they provide without a further obligation. Otherwise companies/people could send you anything and then send you some sort of ridiculous bill based on the fact that you accepted it and therefore agreed to pay for it.
The difference here is that Apple was in good faith attempting to provide you with contracted service. The error most likely occured when the service person "created another order." Most likely, the original order WAS in the computer and someone overlooked it. However, just because two orders were created, and two iPod's shipped, you are only entitled to one.
If you keep it, you would be guilty of fraud and theft. Since it's more than $100, that would make it a felony, and it would be a federal crime at that.
[quote]Oh come on, I don't think you can compare the two. Losing the contents of a wallet such as credit cards and personal info will affect an individual greatly.
However, an iPod will not even register a blip on Apple's bottom line. <hr></blockquote>
That an interesting way of measuring right and wrong - that it won't register a blip? That's an interesting rationalization. So where exactly do you draw the line?
I always thought right was right, and wrong was wrong.
[quote] In American consumer law, if you're given something you didn't ask for and didn't pay for, then you are under no obligation to give it back or pay for i <hr></blockquote>
Again, with the legal advice.. and wrong legal advice at that. While what you say could be interpreted to be true in a narrow set of circumstances, it doesn't even remotely apply here. He DID ask for it. He called and had a second order created. He paid for one, and asked for one - he is entitled to keep one.
It's not a gift, it's a mistake. You have to return it.
[quote] well, sorry to be the wet blanket, but personally i'd just call them up and see what they wanted me to do. you shouldn't have to pay to ship it back if they want it, but you should at least ask what to do with it. <hr></blockquote>
This is by far the best advice so far. You should not have to be out any money for this mistake, but you cannot keep it.
Under the Unsolicited Goods and Services Act 1971, (as amended) it is an offence to demand payment for goods known to be unsolicited, in other words, they were sent to a person without any prior request made by them or on their behalf. Someone who receives goods in these circumstances may retain them as an unconditional gift, and does not have to pay for or return any unwanted goods. Anyone who receives a demand for payment for unsolicited goods should report the matter to their local Trading Standards Department, whose details can be located from <a href="http://www.tradingstandards.gov.uk/."; target="_blank">http://www.tradingstandards.gov.uk/.</a>;
However, in the case of unsolicited goods received before 1 November 2000, the recipient is required to give notice to the sender to collect them within 30 days, or otherwise to wait for 6 months, before being able to treat the goods as their own property.
___________________________________________
...Im sure there are similar laws for your country...
I'm sure you are aware that what you posted is not binding in international law. Judging by the reference to Valentine's Day, it's safe to assume that this person is in the USA, not the UK. Therefore the law you quoted is meaningless to this instance. Actually, even if this situation was in the UK, this law wouldn't apply. This isn't an unsolicited good... read my post above again - there is a HUGE difference legally.
I'm sure you are aware that what you posted is not binding in international law. Judging by the reference to Valentine's Day, it's safe to assume that this person is in the USA, not the UK. Therefore the law you quoted is meaningless to this instance. Actually, even if this situation was in the UK, this law wouldn't apply. This isn't an unsolicited good... read my post above again - there is a HUGE difference legally.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Thanks for the advice OBJRA10. Since new ipods are due out soon, I think I'll keep the package (unopened) until the new units come out and then give Apple a ring (maybe, then, there'll be a better chance they'll let me keep it?). I'll be kicked out of med school if convicted of a felony - too much to risk for $400...
Forget all of the legal mumbo jumbo and just give it to her. In that case:
1) she'll be happy
2) you'll be a worrywart scared every time you open your mail box for the simple reason to please her, therefore so she'll be even more happy
3) once you are slapped with a felony and are behind bars she will realize how much of a sacrifice you are willing to make for her, therefore she will be even more yours
But then again her iPod will probably die after one year and one day (like it has with the rest of us) so she'll dump you as you rot in hell. But isn't that what romance is all about?
you guys telling him to keep it are a bunch of schmucks... its not yours... you don't need a lawyer to tell you what is right and what is wrong... (and the original poster seemed to be on the right track). F_cking somebody over is f_cking somebody over, whether they know it or not; whether they are an individual or a corporation. While you guys are at it - why don't you advocate filing an illegal insurance claim - the insurance companies will never notice it right? a lot of schmucks...
EDIT: I noticed a lot of the "keep it!" folks around here are from outside the US - perhaps its not just us yankee americans (as most of europe would have us believe) who are money grubbing whores, eh? go ahead and tell me about morality one more time.......
[ 02-18-2003: Message edited by: grad student ]</p>
Call Apple, if you're lucky they let you keep it. If not, you will at least feel that you did the right thing (and that's a nice feeling).
I would do it, not without anxiety, but I would still do it. Screwing Apple and living in fear that they will notice their mistake and bill me is too much.
<strong>you guys telling him to keep it are a bunch of schmucks... its not yours... you don't need a lawyer to tell you what is right and what is wrong... (and the original poster seemed to be on the right track). F_cking somebody over is f_cking somebody over, whether they know it or not; whether they are an individual or a corporation. While you guys are at it - why don't you advocate filing an illegal insurance claim - the insurance companies will never notice it right? a lot of schmucks...
EDIT: I noticed a lot of the "keep it!" folks around here are from outside the US - perhaps its not just us yankee americans (as most of europe would have us believe) who are money grubbing whores, eh? go ahead and tell me about morality one more time.......
[ 02-18-2003: Message edited by: grad student ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
That is completely inappropriate. I am ashamed to be from the same country as you. My apologizes to all on behalf of this stupid comment.
EDIT: Call Apple, then tell the guy your situation. If you are lucky you will talk to someone with a girlfriend and he will understand the problem you are in. Also, if they do want it back, your girlfriend should understand (it does suck, but she should still understand). If not, maybe you should find someone more understanding. Hopefully your girlfriend will understand.
Dude, for one thing ... its called "Doing The Right Thing to benefit both parties." Who cares about all this mumbo-jumbo lawyer bull shit! Who cares about everyone telling you to keep it, give it back. All you have to do is call Apple and see what "They" would like you to do. My bet, they'll be happy as shit you called and say, "Its all yours buddy!"
Remember this saying "It All Comes Back to You in the End." <img src="graemlins/cancer.gif" border="0" alt="[cancer]" />
Ah, the great Karmic redress. Isn't it a cop-out to operate in fear of cosmic retribution. Either do it for the joy of "rightness" or don't do it. Goodness acted in the fear of reward and punishment is scarecly goodness and hardly worth the time if you're just trying to prove your ethics to yourself, you've already made that impossible by your thoughts.
Who will be more happy with recieving the iPod, your girlfriend or Apple? There is your answer. And don´t forget: The one that will be most happy is more likely to make you happy (unless you are Mr. Macintosh)
I have worked in customer service and if you called me I would go through my system and see if the pod was missing anywhere and if there was any trace of anything wrong with your registration and then tell you the result.
I am glad there are people out there like you. I think most of these guys are right, you would never get caught if you kept it. Being moral means doing the right thing even though you won't get caught.
There is a difference between "unsolicited goods" and "goods sent in error." There is no legal right to keep goods sent because of an honest shipping error. And it is certainly unethical to keep things you didn't pay for...
There is a difference between "unsolicited goods" and "goods sent in error." There is no legal right to keep goods sent because of an honest shipping error. And it is certainly unethical to keep things you didn't pay for...
It's kindof pathetic and sad that it takes a quote from an FTC website to show people that it is wrong to keep something that is not yours. What is wrong with people? It is completely irrelevant that Apple has lots of cash. If I have several thousand in the bank and some of it mistakenly lands in your account you get to keep it because I have more than you?
<strong>I am glad there are people out there like you. I think most of these guys are right, you would never get caught if you kept it. Being moral means doing the right thing even though you won't get caught.
Bravo to you.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Please tell me what "being moral" means. You know I could give you at least four schools that told him to do different things:
1) Sent it back (Kant)
2) Give it to girlfriend (Bentham)
3) Keep it yourself (Ethical egoism)
4) Sell it and buy food to starving children (humanitarian ethics)
So what do you base your undestanding of moral on?
Comments
Just keep the little thing, but if you really are bothered by it and can't sleep at night, it might be in your best interest to call them just to clear your conscience.
[quote] Anyway, it's not illegal, if someone doesn't invoice you you don't have to pay (as far as i can tell) <hr></blockquote>
Actually no. You do have an obligation to return the extra iPod whether or not you are ever "invoiced." Apple did make a mistake, and yeah it seems like it should just be their problem, but in reality, if you keep it you could be charged with both theft and fraud, not to mention subject to a lawsuit.
[quote] dude you're actually going to return that thing?
you gotta be a monk of something, amazing. <hr></blockquote>
It amazes me that doing the right thing is such a foreign concept to some people. I no longer wonder where the problems of our culture come from when I read moronic comments from idiots like this.
[quote] Years ago, I was receiving cookware in the mail from a company I had never heard of. I tried calling them, but they had no record of the items being sent. I asked a lawyer if I was being scammed, and might eventually be presented with a large bill. He told me that a person can legally keep any unsolicited package that came to them in the mail.
You might ask a lawyer in your state if this still applies. <hr></blockquote>
Well, it is good to see someone who is at least remotely on target. And you also offered the right advice.
Since I am a lawyer, I'll clear it up a bit. What you were told is true, that an uncolicited pacakge that arrives at your home can be considered fair game. The reason for this is because generally this is some sort of advertising ploy, and you have the right to accept whatever gift they provide without a further obligation. Otherwise companies/people could send you anything and then send you some sort of ridiculous bill based on the fact that you accepted it and therefore agreed to pay for it.
The difference here is that Apple was in good faith attempting to provide you with contracted service. The error most likely occured when the service person "created another order." Most likely, the original order WAS in the computer and someone overlooked it. However, just because two orders were created, and two iPod's shipped, you are only entitled to one.
If you keep it, you would be guilty of fraud and theft. Since it's more than $100, that would make it a felony, and it would be a federal crime at that.
[quote]Oh come on, I don't think you can compare the two. Losing the contents of a wallet such as credit cards and personal info will affect an individual greatly.
However, an iPod will not even register a blip on Apple's bottom line. <hr></blockquote>
That an interesting way of measuring right and wrong - that it won't register a blip? That's an interesting rationalization. So where exactly do you draw the line?
I always thought right was right, and wrong was wrong.
[quote] In American consumer law, if you're given something you didn't ask for and didn't pay for, then you are under no obligation to give it back or pay for i <hr></blockquote>
Again, with the legal advice.. and wrong legal advice at that. While what you say could be interpreted to be true in a narrow set of circumstances, it doesn't even remotely apply here. He DID ask for it. He called and had a second order created. He paid for one, and asked for one - he is entitled to keep one.
It's not a gift, it's a mistake. You have to return it.
[quote] well, sorry to be the wet blanket, but personally i'd just call them up and see what they wanted me to do. you shouldn't have to pay to ship it back if they want it, but you should at least ask what to do with it. <hr></blockquote>
This is by far the best advice so far. You should not have to be out any money for this mistake, but you cannot keep it.
_________________________________________
Unsolicited Goods and Services
Under the Unsolicited Goods and Services Act 1971, (as amended) it is an offence to demand payment for goods known to be unsolicited, in other words, they were sent to a person without any prior request made by them or on their behalf. Someone who receives goods in these circumstances may retain them as an unconditional gift, and does not have to pay for or return any unwanted goods. Anyone who receives a demand for payment for unsolicited goods should report the matter to their local Trading Standards Department, whose details can be located from <a href="http://www.tradingstandards.gov.uk/."; target="_blank">http://www.tradingstandards.gov.uk/.</a>;
However, in the case of unsolicited goods received before 1 November 2000, the recipient is required to give notice to the sender to collect them within 30 days, or otherwise to wait for 6 months, before being able to treat the goods as their own property.
___________________________________________
...Im sure there are similar laws for your country...
I'm sure you are aware that what you posted is not binding in international law. Judging by the reference to Valentine's Day, it's safe to assume that this person is in the USA, not the UK. Therefore the law you quoted is meaningless to this instance. Actually, even if this situation was in the UK, this law wouldn't apply. This isn't an unsolicited good... read my post above again - there is a HUGE difference legally.
<strong>MiMAC,
I'm sure you are aware that what you posted is not binding in international law. Judging by the reference to Valentine's Day, it's safe to assume that this person is in the USA, not the UK. Therefore the law you quoted is meaningless to this instance. Actually, even if this situation was in the UK, this law wouldn't apply. This isn't an unsolicited good... read my post above again - there is a HUGE difference legally.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Thanks for the advice OBJRA10. Since new ipods are due out soon, I think I'll keep the package (unopened) until the new units come out and then give Apple a ring (maybe, then, there'll be a better chance they'll let me keep it?). I'll be kicked out of med school if convicted of a felony - too much to risk for $400...
1) she'll be happy
2) you'll be a worrywart scared every time you open your mail box for the simple reason to please her, therefore so she'll be even more happy
3) once you are slapped with a felony and are behind bars she will realize how much of a sacrifice you are willing to make for her, therefore she will be even more yours
But then again her iPod will probably die after one year and one day (like it has with the rest of us) so she'll dump you as you rot in hell. But isn't that what romance is all about?
however if apple don't chase up the millions of people running their software illegally, do you you really think they'll care about 1 iPod,
According to my incredible maths capabilities, Apple losing the iPod is equivelent to a normal person losing 0.003 pence.
Really, if something is wrong in principle but no one actually cares does it matter? Is anyone really going to take you court over this?
Andrew
EDIT: I noticed a lot of the "keep it!" folks around here are from outside the US - perhaps its not just us yankee americans (as most of europe would have us believe) who are money grubbing whores, eh? go ahead and tell me about morality one more time.......
[ 02-18-2003: Message edited by: grad student ]</p>
I would do it, not without anxiety, but I would still do it. Screwing Apple and living in fear that they will notice their mistake and bill me is too much.
<strong>you guys telling him to keep it are a bunch of schmucks... its not yours... you don't need a lawyer to tell you what is right and what is wrong... (and the original poster seemed to be on the right track). F_cking somebody over is f_cking somebody over, whether they know it or not; whether they are an individual or a corporation. While you guys are at it - why don't you advocate filing an illegal insurance claim - the insurance companies will never notice it right? a lot of schmucks...
EDIT: I noticed a lot of the "keep it!" folks around here are from outside the US - perhaps its not just us yankee americans (as most of europe would have us believe) who are money grubbing whores, eh? go ahead and tell me about morality one more time.......
[ 02-18-2003: Message edited by: grad student ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
That is completely inappropriate. I am ashamed to be from the same country as you. My apologizes to all on behalf of this stupid comment.
EDIT: Call Apple, then tell the guy your situation. If you are lucky you will talk to someone with a girlfriend and he will understand the problem you are in. Also, if they do want it back, your girlfriend should understand (it does suck, but she should still understand). If not, maybe you should find someone more understanding. Hopefully your girlfriend will understand.
[ 02-18-2003: Message edited by: drumbug1 ]</p>
Remember this saying "It All Comes Back to You in the End." <img src="graemlins/cancer.gif" border="0" alt="[cancer]" />
I have worked in customer service and if you called me I would go through my system and see if the pod was missing anywhere and if there was any trace of anything wrong with your registration and then tell you the result.
Bravo to you.
<strong>..Quote from DTI website (UK)..
_________________________________________
Unsolicited Goods and Services
.</strong><hr></blockquote>
There is a difference between "unsolicited goods" and "goods sent in error." There is no legal right to keep goods sent because of an honest shipping error. And it is certainly unethical to keep things you didn't pay for...
<a href="http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/products/unorderd.htm"; target="_blank">http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/products/unorderd.htm</a>;
There is a difference between "unsolicited goods" and "goods sent in error." There is no legal right to keep goods sent because of an honest shipping error. And it is certainly unethical to keep things you didn't pay for...
<a href="http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/products/unorderd.htm"; target="_blank">http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/products/unorderd.htm</a>[/QB]<hr></blockquote>;
Good info Sammy.
It's kindof pathetic and sad that it takes a quote from an FTC website to show people that it is wrong to keep something that is not yours. What is wrong with people? It is completely irrelevant that Apple has lots of cash. If I have several thousand in the bank and some of it mistakenly lands in your account you get to keep it because I have more than you?
No. You don't.
Don't steal iPods
<strong>I am glad there are people out there like you. I think most of these guys are right, you would never get caught if you kept it. Being moral means doing the right thing even though you won't get caught.
Bravo to you.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Please tell me what "being moral" means. You know I could give you at least four schools that told him to do different things:
1) Sent it back (Kant)
2) Give it to girlfriend (Bentham)
3) Keep it yourself (Ethical egoism)
4) Sell it and buy food to starving children (humanitarian ethics)
So what do you base your undestanding of moral on?