Maybe they're waiting to see who will win the Blue-Ray/HD DVD battle before they drop the dvd player in. Or maybe they are stupid enough to think that people don't want to rent movies and are willing to pay $10 for a movie that won't look great on the wide screen.
ahhh........??? Are you crazy? The point of the appleTV system, assuming it secures a robust library of content in the future, is facilitate NOT EVER having to buy a physical product. Think of how ridiculous buying DVDs or even using netflix is, compared with digital downloads. So much time and energy is used to move a digital information source onto a physical product.
Additionally this could eventually assist them in AVOIDING the "format war". Assuming apple starts allowing rentals like xbox360 or onDemand, it's irrelevant what format they choose since its being streamed into you home for a limited time. We, the users, can avoid having to pay $500 for this player and then $500 for the player that plays the format that actually wins because the format is just a formality. The Blu-Ray / HD-DVD format war is over, it already lost to digital downloads.
Also, the appleTV movies are not the same ones that would be shown on the iPod, or are they? I was under the impression they would be 780p quality.
It's not a DVD player. That's not its purpose. It's pretty well understood. The media rests in the computers hooked up. That's the point.
Yeah, it might not be a dvd player but whats the point of having itunes only? Like I said before, pick up the dlo for $149 and you basically have the same thing. To make this a viable product, you need to converge many devices into one. If they don't, it won't sell. Why Apple is throwing resources into this is not clear. Unless they have other plans down the road. Until then, there is no reason for someone to buy this. For example, I can click a button right now on my comcast box and have instant access to movies and shows. Same goes for the new Verizon and At&t offerings. With Apple I would need another computer to do the trick. Again, it won't sell unless something changes.
Yeah, it might not be a dvd player but whats the point of having itunes only? Like I said before, pick up the dlo for $149 and you basically have the same thing. To make this a viable product, you need to converge many devices into one. If they don't, it won't sell. Why Apple is throwing resources into this is not clear. Unless they have other plans down the road. Until then, there is no reason for someone to buy this. For example, I can click a button right now on my comcast box and have instant access to movies and shows. Same goes for the new Verizon and At&t offerings. With Apple I would need another computer to do the trick. Again, it won't sell unless something changes.
No, you are missing the point here. read Drewcon's post again. That's the point.
I don't always agree with Gates, but he was right when he said that HD-DVD and Blu-Ray are the last physical media standards we will see.
Right now, Apple isn't competing with them because the product only delivers 720p. But that will change in the future when delivery of 1080p becomes viable. The other needed factor is higher bandwidth internet service. Verison's FIFO is one that will work well.
So, the idea is to eliminate the disk altogether. After all, what is iTunes designed to do?
Apple is trying to drive people to digital downloads, and away from media. He's succeeding. When enough movies are available on iTunes, then you will really see sales take off. Apple has already sold over 1.3 million Disney movies alone!
Yes iTunes has become the number 4 music retailer in the US and does not sell any physical media.
That is why they don't have a DVR or DVD player. That is not their business model.
Netflix needs to jump into the download rental market as soon as possible. Apple should leave Apple TV open for third party plug ins. Netflix should use the infrastructure Apple has created to deliver its rental content.
Yes iTunes has become the number 4 music retailer in the US and does not sell any physical media.
That is why they don't have a DVR or DVD player. That is not their business model.
Netflix needs to jump into the download rental market as soon as possible. Apple should leave Apple TV open for third party plug ins. Netflix should use the infrastructure Apple has created to deliver its rental content.
Apple would have to get more money out of that deal then they would make by doing it themselves.
As to the small hard-drive size, if you consider that the Mac or a PC is going to be the main repository, I think that the HD is going to be used more as a high capacity cache, than anything else. For Apple, the internet is really where your media is comping from. Cable TV doesn't even seem to to play a part.
Yeah, it might not be a dvd player but whats the point of having itunes only? Like I said before, pick up the dlo for $149 and you basically have the same thing. To make this a viable product, you need to converge many devices into one. If they don't, it won't sell. Why Apple is throwing resources into this is not clear. Unless they have other plans down the road. Until then, there is no reason for someone to buy this. For example, I can click a button right now on my comcast box and have instant access to movies and shows. Same goes for the new Verizon and At&t offerings. With Apple I would need another computer to do the trick. Again, it won't sell unless something changes.
Consider: my family (sister-in-law, parents, etc.) comes to visit. My wife and I want to show some of our recent pictures (vacation, wedding, house restoration before and after, whatever). How does Verizon, AT&T, Comcast or dlo help with that?
In last week's real-life instance of just this scenario, we were gathered around my 15" MBP looking at pictures pulled over the household network from the computer upstairs in my wife's study. Next time, once we have our appletv, we'll be able to show these pictures on our 26" widescreen HDTV. [I know, I know ... who ever heard of a 26" widescreen HDTV? And a CRT one at that! Well ... it was an easy entrée into the HD world that fit both our entertainment center and our budget!]
Moral of the story being ... appletv is about extending the media display capabilities of our computers into the living room, whether that media is from external (iTunes Store) or local (camera, video camera) sources. It's not an extender of the cable company's services, nor a DVD player.
For Apple, the internet is really where your media is comping from. Cable TV doesn't even seem to to play a part.
I mostly agree, but would expand one part: For Apple, the Internet is really where your externally-procured media comes from ... to join your own home-generated media, such as from camcorders (family movies for the 21st century!).
Consider: my family (sister-in-law, parents, etc.) comes to visit. My wife and I want to show some of our recent pictures (vacation, wedding, house restoration before and after, whatever). How does Verizon, AT&T, Comcast or dlo help with that?
In last week's real-life instance of just this scenario, we were gathered around my 15" MBP looking at pictures pulled over the household network from the computer upstairs in my wife's study.
...the living room, whether that media is from external (iTunes Store) or local (camera, video camera) sources. It's not an extender of the cable company's services, nor a DVD player.
1. Again, I hook my ipod to the tv. Done.
2. So you need a server in your house? For me and you this is great. But normal Joe's, nope.
3. Without the server in the home this all goes away. People like DVDs right now and they will continue for many years to come. The time isn't right. Now, if Apple turns this into a Movie rental biz, I could see that. But then again, Comcastic/Verizon/AT&T/etc will have that wrapped up.
I guess I'm not like the rest of the world. When I watch a movie I'm done. I rarely ever watch a movie twice. Songs on the other hand can be played numerous times and it won't get old. 1.3 million movie downloads isn't much really. 500,000 came from people just testing it out. How many dvd's do you think got sold in the same time frame?
Take the mac mini and put a AppleTV logo on it and then I would agree. You need a way to get your songs/movies into the machine. I will not buy from itunes because of the drm. I actually don't think its bad but I have a Sonos system in my house that won't play the DRMed songs. Think about that for a second and you'll see where I'm coming from.
will not buy from itunes because of the drm. I actually don't think its bad but I have a Sonos system in my house that won't play the DRMed songs. Think about that for a second and you'll see where I'm coming from.
Apple aren't exactly known for their track record caring about that sort of thing are they?
The Apple TV seems like an experiment to me, but it is probably just the right time. People are moving to HD the world over, the format war is still raging, and Apple have the iTS to push and iLife to tantalise the would-be switchers with. I don't see the Apple TV being a big, big seller. And yes, I'm with whoever it was when they said it should be a w-fi router while it's at it, I mean you can get too much of Mac Mini style stack in that scenario! But the idea behind the Apple TV is right. "Get rid of physical media. Get rid of the drive to the store. Bring media to people by the best way technology now allows. Let them use their own homemade stuff too."
Roughly Drafted has a good series of articles on this. Apple are building a platform all right. And the best thing is, it's still all wrapped around the Macintosh.
Here's how I envision this shaking out, with some minor tweaking along the way. Just like Jobs said for the Apple iPhone ("Making phone calls is the killer app"), but in this case - TV is the killer app for the Apple TV. Music and Photos are simply elegantly designed extras that add to the digital lifestyle and personalize the experience.
The simple part for now...Apple wants you to buy a new Mac with 802.11N built in and with lots of storage (and/or you can add your own external storage for even more capacity). This computer may reside somewhere in your house other than your living room/family room/bedroom, etc. where your TV(s) are currently located. You then buy an Apple TV (also with 802.11N built in) to stream the movies and TV shows that you purchase from iTunes.
The cool part later...is going to be when the video (movies and TV) that's streamed to the Apple TV is true VoD AND live TV coming straight from the ITMS using WiMAX! How's 200+ plus channels of entertainment sound for your viewing pleasure? Oh, but you want TiVo like functionality, no problem, don't forget that OSX Leopard already has PVR/DVR functionality buried deep into its code base (I've seen the screen shots for it before on this forum). Something I'm sure that Apple could incorporate with Front Row via the Apple TV. Under this model, Apple will compete with Telco IPTV, Cable, and Satellite, which is one reason I think they chose Apple TV as the name for this product. Apple will either find a way to use their Apple Stores as WiMAX distribution hubs (already strategically located within wealthy demographic regions across the US to access a portion of their target markets) to circumvent the phone companies IPTV DSL based offerings and cable companies to deliver TV and VoIP over the last mile (or over the last 6 miles or so to be exact according to the standard for fixed WiMAX) OR partner with the phone companies to leverage their existing/developing WiMAX footprints across the US to reach broader markets.
The Cingular/AT&T agreement could be stretched to include the WiMAX offering in the future or they may just use a wireless provider's network (AT&T, Sprint, Clearwire, etc.) to become their own MVNO (Mobile Network Virtual Operator) to provide a seamless experience to the customer. This may also be the reason Apple went with Intel. Intel plans on building WiFi and WiMAX into their portable chipsets, so theoretically, Apple could utilize these chipsets in their Apple TVs or ask for this technology to be embedded into their desktop chips as well.
SO...you end up with a complete Apple solution for your all your home or mobile entertainment/communication needs. Apple computers located somewhere in your home for storage and/or a stackable storage solution that sits on top of the Apple TV (using the USB connector already on the box), an Apple TV connected to all the TVs in your home (possibly leased or rented by Apple as part of a service agreement to lower the cost of acquisition to the end user - just like your cable, satellite and IPTV set top box is provided today), an Internet connection provided via Apple using WiMAX for the last mile or Mobile WiMAX for access while on the road (connected to your laptop or iPhone), possibly a large screen Apple 40+ inch HD LCD down the road (we've all heard these rumors for some time now), and the next rendition of the iPod HiFi connected to your Apple TV for your virtual surround sound/home theater audio experience so you can enjoy the show or listen to your music in high fidelity. Oh, and don't forget the regular iPod as well. I have to admit. This would be a pretty slick implementation if they can pull it all together.
How exciting indeed! Apple TV? Sign me up. I'll take 3! One for each HDTV in my home. Potentially another example of Apple making something that we didn't know we wanted or needed until they made it for us. Man...I'd love to be a part of this!
Comments
Maybe they're waiting to see who will win the Blue-Ray/HD DVD battle before they drop the dvd player in. Or maybe they are stupid enough to think that people don't want to rent movies and are willing to pay $10 for a movie that won't look great on the wide screen.
ahhh........??? Are you crazy? The point of the appleTV system, assuming it secures a robust library of content in the future, is facilitate NOT EVER having to buy a physical product. Think of how ridiculous buying DVDs or even using netflix is, compared with digital downloads. So much time and energy is used to move a digital information source onto a physical product.
Additionally this could eventually assist them in AVOIDING the "format war". Assuming apple starts allowing rentals like xbox360 or onDemand, it's irrelevant what format they choose since its being streamed into you home for a limited time. We, the users, can avoid having to pay $500 for this player and then $500 for the player that plays the format that actually wins because the format is just a formality. The Blu-Ray / HD-DVD format war is over, it already lost to digital downloads.
Also, the appleTV movies are not the same ones that would be shown on the iPod, or are they? I was under the impression they would be 780p quality.
It's not a DVD player. That's not its purpose. It's pretty well understood. The media rests in the computers hooked up. That's the point.
Yeah, it might not be a dvd player but whats the point of having itunes only? Like I said before, pick up the dlo for $149 and you basically have the same thing. To make this a viable product, you need to converge many devices into one. If they don't, it won't sell. Why Apple is throwing resources into this is not clear. Unless they have other plans down the road. Until then, there is no reason for someone to buy this. For example, I can click a button right now on my comcast box and have instant access to movies and shows. Same goes for the new Verizon and At&t offerings. With Apple I would need another computer to do the trick. Again, it won't sell unless something changes.
Yeah, it might not be a dvd player but whats the point of having itunes only? Like I said before, pick up the dlo for $149 and you basically have the same thing. To make this a viable product, you need to converge many devices into one. If they don't, it won't sell. Why Apple is throwing resources into this is not clear. Unless they have other plans down the road. Until then, there is no reason for someone to buy this. For example, I can click a button right now on my comcast box and have instant access to movies and shows. Same goes for the new Verizon and At&t offerings. With Apple I would need another computer to do the trick. Again, it won't sell unless something changes.
No, you are missing the point here. read Drewcon's post again. That's the point.
I don't always agree with Gates, but he was right when he said that HD-DVD and Blu-Ray are the last physical media standards we will see.
Right now, Apple isn't competing with them because the product only delivers 720p. But that will change in the future when delivery of 1080p becomes viable. The other needed factor is higher bandwidth internet service. Verison's FIFO is one that will work well.
So, the idea is to eliminate the disk altogether. After all, what is iTunes designed to do?
Apple is trying to drive people to digital downloads, and away from media. He's succeeding. When enough movies are available on iTunes, then you will really see sales take off. Apple has already sold over 1.3 million Disney movies alone!
Not everybody's cup of tea yet, but it will be.
That is why they don't have a DVR or DVD player. That is not their business model.
Netflix needs to jump into the download rental market as soon as possible. Apple should leave Apple TV open for third party plug ins. Netflix should use the infrastructure Apple has created to deliver its rental content.
Yes iTunes has become the number 4 music retailer in the US and does not sell any physical media.
That is why they don't have a DVR or DVD player. That is not their business model.
Netflix needs to jump into the download rental market as soon as possible. Apple should leave Apple TV open for third party plug ins. Netflix should use the infrastructure Apple has created to deliver its rental content.
Apple would have to get more money out of that deal then they would make by doing it themselves.
Yeah, it might not be a dvd player but whats the point of having itunes only? Like I said before, pick up the dlo for $149 and you basically have the same thing. To make this a viable product, you need to converge many devices into one. If they don't, it won't sell. Why Apple is throwing resources into this is not clear. Unless they have other plans down the road. Until then, there is no reason for someone to buy this. For example, I can click a button right now on my comcast box and have instant access to movies and shows. Same goes for the new Verizon and At&t offerings. With Apple I would need another computer to do the trick. Again, it won't sell unless something changes.
Consider: my family (sister-in-law, parents, etc.) comes to visit. My wife and I want to show some of our recent pictures (vacation, wedding, house restoration before and after, whatever). How does Verizon, AT&T, Comcast or dlo help with that?
In last week's real-life instance of just this scenario, we were gathered around my 15" MBP looking at pictures pulled over the household network from the computer upstairs in my wife's study. Next time, once we have our appletv, we'll be able to show these pictures on our 26" widescreen HDTV. [I know, I know ... who ever heard of a 26" widescreen HDTV? And a CRT one at that! Well ... it was an easy entrée into the HD world that fit both our entertainment center and our budget!]
Moral of the story being ... appletv is about extending the media display capabilities of our computers into the living room, whether that media is from external (iTunes Store) or local (camera, video camera) sources. It's not an extender of the cable company's services, nor a DVD player.
For Apple, the internet is really where your media is comping from. Cable TV doesn't even seem to to play a part.
I mostly agree, but would expand one part: For Apple, the Internet is really where your externally-procured media comes from ... to join your own home-generated media, such as from camcorders (family movies for the 21st century!).
But cable TV companies? Just another ISP, I say.
Consider: my family (sister-in-law, parents, etc.) comes to visit. My wife and I want to show some of our recent pictures (vacation, wedding, house restoration before and after, whatever). How does Verizon, AT&T, Comcast or dlo help with that?
In last week's real-life instance of just this scenario, we were gathered around my 15" MBP looking at pictures pulled over the household network from the computer upstairs in my wife's study.
...the living room, whether that media is from external (iTunes Store) or local (camera, video camera) sources. It's not an extender of the cable company's services, nor a DVD player.
1. Again, I hook my ipod to the tv. Done.
2. So you need a server in your house? For me and you this is great. But normal Joe's, nope.
3. Without the server in the home this all goes away. People like DVDs right now and they will continue for many years to come. The time isn't right. Now, if Apple turns this into a Movie rental biz, I could see that. But then again, Comcastic/Verizon/AT&T/etc will have that wrapped up.
I guess I'm not like the rest of the world. When I watch a movie I'm done. I rarely ever watch a movie twice. Songs on the other hand can be played numerous times and it won't get old. 1.3 million movie downloads isn't much really. 500,000 came from people just testing it out. How many dvd's do you think got sold in the same time frame?
Take the mac mini and put a AppleTV logo on it and then I would agree. You need a way to get your songs/movies into the machine. I will not buy from itunes because of the drm. I actually don't think its bad but I have a Sonos system in my house that won't play the DRMed songs. Think about that for a second and you'll see where I'm coming from.
will not buy from itunes because of the drm. I actually don't think its bad but I have a Sonos system in my house that won't play the DRMed songs. Think about that for a second and you'll see where I'm coming from.
Apple aren't exactly known for their track record caring about that sort of thing are they?
The Apple TV seems like an experiment to me, but it is probably just the right time. People are moving to HD the world over, the format war is still raging, and Apple have the iTS to push and iLife to tantalise the would-be switchers with. I don't see the Apple TV being a big, big seller. And yes, I'm with whoever it was when they said it should be a w-fi router while it's at it, I mean you can get too much of Mac Mini style stack in that scenario! But the idea behind the Apple TV is right. "Get rid of physical media. Get rid of the drive to the store. Bring media to people by the best way technology now allows. Let them use their own homemade stuff too."
Roughly Drafted has a good series of articles on this. Apple are building a platform all right. And the best thing is, it's still all wrapped around the Macintosh.
The simple part for now...Apple wants you to buy a new Mac with 802.11N built in and with lots of storage (and/or you can add your own external storage for even more capacity). This computer may reside somewhere in your house other than your living room/family room/bedroom, etc. where your TV(s) are currently located. You then buy an Apple TV (also with 802.11N built in) to stream the movies and TV shows that you purchase from iTunes.
The cool part later...is going to be when the video (movies and TV) that's streamed to the Apple TV is true VoD AND live TV coming straight from the ITMS using WiMAX! How's 200+ plus channels of entertainment sound for your viewing pleasure? Oh, but you want TiVo like functionality, no problem, don't forget that OSX Leopard already has PVR/DVR functionality buried deep into its code base (I've seen the screen shots for it before on this forum). Something I'm sure that Apple could incorporate with Front Row via the Apple TV. Under this model, Apple will compete with Telco IPTV, Cable, and Satellite, which is one reason I think they chose Apple TV as the name for this product. Apple will either find a way to use their Apple Stores as WiMAX distribution hubs (already strategically located within wealthy demographic regions across the US to access a portion of their target markets) to circumvent the phone companies IPTV DSL based offerings and cable companies to deliver TV and VoIP over the last mile (or over the last 6 miles or so to be exact according to the standard for fixed WiMAX) OR partner with the phone companies to leverage their existing/developing WiMAX footprints across the US to reach broader markets.
The Cingular/AT&T agreement could be stretched to include the WiMAX offering in the future or they may just use a wireless provider's network (AT&T, Sprint, Clearwire, etc.) to become their own MVNO (Mobile Network Virtual Operator) to provide a seamless experience to the customer. This may also be the reason Apple went with Intel. Intel plans on building WiFi and WiMAX into their portable chipsets, so theoretically, Apple could utilize these chipsets in their Apple TVs or ask for this technology to be embedded into their desktop chips as well.
SO...you end up with a complete Apple solution for your all your home or mobile entertainment/communication needs. Apple computers located somewhere in your home for storage and/or a stackable storage solution that sits on top of the Apple TV (using the USB connector already on the box), an Apple TV connected to all the TVs in your home (possibly leased or rented by Apple as part of a service agreement to lower the cost of acquisition to the end user - just like your cable, satellite and IPTV set top box is provided today), an Internet connection provided via Apple using WiMAX for the last mile or Mobile WiMAX for access while on the road (connected to your laptop or iPhone), possibly a large screen Apple 40+ inch HD LCD down the road (we've all heard these rumors for some time now), and the next rendition of the iPod HiFi connected to your Apple TV for your virtual surround sound/home theater audio experience so you can enjoy the show or listen to your music in high fidelity. Oh, and don't forget the regular iPod as well. I have to admit. This would be a pretty slick implementation if they can pull it all together.
How exciting indeed! Apple TV? Sign me up. I'll take 3! One for each HDTV in my home. Potentially another example of Apple making something that we didn't know we wanted or needed until they made it for us. Man...I'd love to be a part of this!