Aw, crap, I bet you can't even hook this up to a cheap widescreen LCD monitor unless it supports 720p. Well, there goes my interest in even possibly picking one of these up as a refurb.
Somehow I think streaming Video to a mac mini wouldn't be very smooth. It's going over a G wireless network and running on a computer that has intel graphics.
That's what I thought, but then I tried it with a movie purchased off of iTunes, and it worked quite well. The airport connection did crap out once during the movie, but other than that the Airport had enough bandwidth for the movie.
* Enhanced-definition or high-definition widescreen TVs capable of 1080i 60/50Hz, 720p 60/50Hz, 576p 50Hz (PAL format), or 480p 60Hz
Are you sure? I think DeaPeaJay needs to know if his TV is 480i (SDTV) or 480p (EDTV). My 27" CRT has component video input but it's SDTV, making it incompatible with Apple TV if the tech specs are accurate. That's a deal-killer for my hope of replacing my dead EyeHome with ATV. Buying both a new TV and ATV right now is out of the question.
I was assured that European ATVs will produce RGB component analogue video output (which is necessary for the ATV to work with the majority of installed European widescreen TVs, but was not necessarily a given).
'If it's on iTunes, it's on TV.' Given that I have the Apple MPEG2 QT component and therefore can play MPEG2s in iTunes can I watch them with the ATV too? Yes, the Apple rep told me as the video will be transcoded to an ATV compatible codec as it is synced! Impressive... if true.
Are you sure? I think DeaPeaJay needs to know if his TV is 480i (SDTV) or 480p (EDTV). My 27" CRT has component video input but it's SDTV, making it incompatible with Apple TV if the tech specs are accurate. That's a deal-killer for my hope of replacing my dead EyeHome with ATV. Buying both a new TV and ATV right now is out of the question.
I don't know, I'd have to look it up. I'm pretty sure it's SDTV though. I've never used component video before, but wouldn't it be the same signal no matter what TV you have. If it puts out 480p video, will my 480i TV not know what to do with it? What good is the component video on the TV if you can't use it?
Why would they do that. None of the Airports have ever had hard drives in them. You're talking about Apple charging $50 more for this product but how is that possible.
Apple TV has
HDMI which requires licensing
40GB hard drive which requires the drive and controller
A processor strong enough to decode 720p HD video
It seems like your chief complaint is money as you really haven't supported your hypotheses that the Apple TV is lame. In fact I really haven't seen any of these streamers offer much more features for even the same price.
Apple doesn't whore their product out. If your an Apple user you know there will be a slight premium but the demands are high that the product functions correctly and looks good.
You're right. They can't make an airport with those components for only $50 more. Still, I can't help but feel that the actual functionality of this product isn't worth that much more to me. There aren't yet any 720p movies even available for it yet, so how does 720p or HDMI impress me when the new standards are moving to 1080p? What do I need a 40 GB hard drive for? If I can't store ALL of my movies and music on it and the wireless is capable of streaming it from the computer, what good is it really doing anyway?
My real point was that this product would have been better recieved (regardless of price) as an improvement to Airport... like 'AirVideo' as MacBear called it. This would have been so becuase when Apple reveals a new product, people expect to be impressed and this just isn't that impressive as a new product. However, I'm sure it is extremely well made, easy to use, and elegantly designed. You probably get your money's worth in that aspect. I hope more comes of it in the future, because I do like the idea of Apple designing AV components. This, however, just doesn't excite me and therefore I view it as 'lame'.
It's cool if your movies are already on iTunes. Not so cool if your movies are on DVD's (say Netflix), unless you want to do some conversion thing and some other stuff to get the movie onto iTunes.
It would be great if there was a comparision between download experience and quality between AppleTV and the Xbox 360.
I must be in the very slim target market for this device. I was very excited and pre-ordered my on Tuesday. Here are my reasons:
1- I have a 42" plasma on the living room wall. My wife and I wanted to be able to stream our photos to it to show other people as well as provide the room with some "art" (if you count my photography as that). I know there are easier/ cheaper ways of doing this, but they require fiddling around. We want something that we can turn on and walk away in less than 30 sec.
2- I actually have a lot of movies already ripped into iTunes. Why not just send them to the TV. yeah, they won't be as nice as my HD DVD's, but it's quick.
3- I don't buy movies via itunes, but I do buy TV shows. This is an easy way to get them to the TV.
4- According to apple's website I can stream video if the wireless network is fast enough. Hence, the reason I bought the new airport as well. In additiona, the new airport can be attached to an external hard drive and used as a shared drive. I'm hoping to park my video on this and stream it all to the appleTV. (syncing using the built in hard drive would suck).
5-I'm also hoping that in the future something will change to accept additonal video files.
It's not perfect, but it's a start. I'll start by jumping on this as I did with my original 5gb and see where it goes.
I'm sort of in the niche for this product: I use iTunes TV downloads instead of paying for cable TV. (Even ONE month of cable can pay for 2-3 season passes! Luckily for me, Galactica is on iTunes.)
And I'm sort of not in the niche: my Mac now IS my TV. Thanks to a 24" iMac with EyeTV. So I have a complete, integrated, remote-controllable widescreen home entertainment solution complete with TiVo functionality, in my living room.
I know most people keep their computer and TV separate, though.
So... maybe the AppleTV's benefit stems mainly from iTunes' benefits for TV and movies. We know quality is sub-DVD (but still good). We know selection is limited (for current shows and especially movies--it's nice to have access to older shows, but NetFlix has even more of those plus far more movies).
Those are the downsides. Here are the positives:
No TV ads.
No TV schedule--watch when you want (starting about a day later than broadcast), and no need to even record first, nor keep track of what's coming up. Browse past shows, not just what's on cable now.
No wait for your movies (NetFlix mail, or drive to the store). Iinstant gratification. Video even streams before it's done downloading.
Easy iPod/iPhone integration.
Those are nice things, no doubt. Quality will improve eventually--it already did once. And selection will too, though it's hard to imagine equalling Netflix (which I used to enjoy, but the throttling and unpredictability drove me away).
Quality is already at the "good enough" stage, even if it's not HD. Selection, then is the key thing that needs to keep improving. TV shows have been on a roll for some time, and Paramount is a good sign regarding movies.
So here's my current theory:
* AppleTV will appeal to only a small niche of people right now.
* With a MUCH larger selection of video/movie content on iTunes, it will gain a much larger audience.
* But it's a chicken-and-egg scenario. Video iPods alone are not enough to drive shows and movies to iTunes en masse. TV is where people want to watch them. Content providers need incentive to get their stuff on iTunes. Consumers need content to make them buy AppleTV. Which of the two comes first? More TV/movie content, with limited uses for it? Or AppleTV, with limited content to show on it?
* Apple can only control one of the two. So they release AppleTV before there's really a demand for it. Now the egg is laid. Some consumers will buy it, not many. But the platform is there as a gesture to content owners. More content will follow, and THEN more consumers will follow.
* Niche product for only a small number of people? Yes. It's a snowball that HAS to start small. Just like mobile video started small by tacking it onto the music iPod.
* So maybe we shouldn't be waiting for more AppleTV features, cool as they might be to imagine (like PVR). Maybe we should just be waiting for more TV shows and more movies on iTunes. It sounds boring, but maybe that's the main thing needed to make AppleTV (and who knows what other ventures) take off.
4- According to apple's website I can stream video if the wireless network is fast enough. Hence, the reason I bought the new airport as well. In additiona, the new airport can be attached to an external hard drive and used as a shared drive. I'm hoping to park my video on this and stream it all to the appleTV. (syncing using the built in hard drive would suck).
Ditto, I'm really hoping for that since I have a laptop and I'm running out of internal drive space. I really think that's what Apple had in mind when they allowed the airport to be used in this way. Wireless network storage is a HUGE HUGE HUGE plus for me as a mobile user. Let's see, my shopping list is already growing. I need to sell my MBP so I can get a computer with an N card. I need an Airport base station, an additional external drive so I can have one for Time Machine and one for media, a USB hub to connect them to the Airport. Also Leopard, iLife and iWork. Man, Apple is milking me dry!
Let's see, my shopping list is already growing. I need to sell my MBP so I can get a computer with an N card. I need an Airport base station, an additional external drive so I can have one for Time Machine and one for media, a USB hub to connect them to the Airport. Also Leopard, iLife and iWork. Man, Apple is milking me dry!
Exactly! My MacBook is filling up and my iMac also needs some breathing room.
iTunes can already stream from another Mac/PC, so a Mac Mini hooked to TV sounds better in just about every way: you get the same remote, only now it plays DVDs and CDs too, and you have every app/media player/tuner/PVR that you might want to add: you have a complete Mac platform. You even have on-screen Web and email (especially with Leopard's scalable UI). As for WiFi n, at the moment, my g seems sufficient for streaming everything from iTunes TV shows to movie trailers.
What you don't get with the Mini:
HDMI output. Without HDMI output you don't get secure digital path for content from source (Apple.com) to display (HDTV via HDMI). Potentially we may not be able to play 720p/24 movies on our Macs once the studios set the downrez bit without HDCP compliant video cards except at 540p. Ditto on aTV folks using component out.
You're streaming H.264 720p trailers of G reliably? Cool. Trust me...you won't be once your neighbor gets draft-N. Hope you don't live near me in a few months.
Quote:
And iTunes shows aren't HD (though of course that will happen one day). And when they are, AppleTV doesn't go as high res as some TVs--it only goes to 720p? (Not bad, but still, I enjoy 1080i HDTV sometimes.)
720p/24 is a reasonable compromise for download times and bandwidth requirements over 1080p/24 or 720p/60.
Unfortunately this also means that the TV shows aren't likely to get a rez bump unless they improve the published spec on aTV.
Quote:
So AppleTV doesn't seem to do much that a Mini can't do already. Except it's cheaper! So it will have some market.
AND Apple can tell studios they have an end to end Fairplay DRM to HDMI videochain. Studios can safely distribute HD content without worries of casual copying (beyond managed sharing/copying). Also at 720p/24 its positioned slightly below the studio's next generation product (HD-DVD/BluRay).
Not that I really understand why they cared all THAT much...even 1080p is a far cry from master quality...
Quote:
I can't help wondering what else Apple might have planned for it, though... and why they would be releasing it BEFORE it does anything else? With such hype, and a teaser pre-announcement? Apple seems to think it's bigger than I understand.
Outside of the PS3 and XBox no one else has end to end service to display security and control over implementation. That means aTV puts Apple on the same footing as Sony (well slightly less since they don't own a studio) and MS for video/film distribution. These three companies are uniquely positioned in the marketplace. Other companies have different advantages but only these three currently have soup to nuts content delivery control.
Vinea
PS Final note: 720p looks better than 1080i when compressed because progressive is easier to compress than interlaced. At the same compressed data rates 720p looked better than 1080i at the EBU IBC demo. Given that Apple will be streaming video from their servers to your machines and they get to pay for their big pipes as the provider they're going to be as bit starved as cable or sat HD.
Outside of that though, limited codecs exclude the interest of many. Eliminated, TVs without component or HDMI which excludes the vast majority of TVs out there. On the high end, people with 1080p or even 1080i TVs are likely to be disappointed that it maxes out at 720p.
An objection that could be taken care of in iTunes 8 which IMHO will likely get released with aTV (or a big rev of iTunes 7). While aTV might only do H.264 conversion from other format that Apple likes into h.264 will get built into iTunes. For those codecs Apple doesn't like there will be 3rd party tools to do conversion to H.264.
TVs without either component or HDMI won't care about Apple's HD offerings or aTV anway. In the mid range 720p/1080i sets outnumber 1080p sets and the cost differential is still high relative to gains.
Depending on how much compression Apple uses it may still look better than sat or cable HD movies. As I note above, 720p looks better than 1080i at the same bitrates.
Maybe Murch or Vinea can help me on this. Where is this heading? What is the appeal of this device? I don't think I understand purpose and goal of ATV because I don't know why anyone would want this.
Maybe Murch or Vinea can help me on this. Where is this heading? What is the appeal of this device? I don't think I understand purpose and goal of ATV because I don't know why anyone would want this.
backtomac
My goal is to eventually have all my media hidden from view in my entertainment area. I'm not interested in showing off my CD and DVD collection anymore. I'd rather just pick up a universal remote and queue up the media that I want.
ATV is a step in the right direction but I acknowledge that it isn't perfect yet. However I do acknowledge that it'll allow me to re-rip my CD collection in Apple Lossless and keep it digital the whole way into my AVR. I'm also looking forward to getting a DLSR and being able to stream my photos to ATV. It's going to be a niche product. I'm not a big movie downloader but I can't wait to be able to view my own HD Content (assuming I find a HD camcorder that I like) through ATV.
There could be some surprises. Let's say Apple supports Blu-ray and builds in the appropriate DRM handling system. What would be the value of being able to store a digital copy of Blu-ray movies that could be streamed to the ATV? This would likely require generation 2 of ATV but I could see this happening.
Maybe Murch or Vinea can help me on this. Where is this heading? What is the appeal of this device? I don't think I understand purpose and goal of ATV because I don't know why anyone would want this.
I think it still depends on seeing the final iTunes interface with aTV. If it can stream down movies or TV shows I purchased before or buy new without the computer on it has a lot of appeal. Or if Apple creates a NAS counterpart that works without a computer running.
Even as it is its not a bad IPTV model that's a la carte vs the buffet meal of cable or satellite. Less handy if you need the computer on but liveable. I get my fix of my shows with a season pass and I don't really have time for more. Why pay $100/month when I don't use it all if I can go a la carte?
Also, like murch there is a lot of appeal having my movie collection available through FrontRow/Coverflow. I've thought about ripping all my DVDs to a NAS but never had a front end I liked so never bothered. aTV looks to be that front end if I can get those DVDs into h.264 in iTunes for streaming resonably easily. I don't even care that much that it wont be uprez'd. Anything I care about I'll repurchase in 720p/24 from iTunes or buy on HD-DVD/Blu-Ray. There's maybe a handful of titles I would bother with. New titles I buy from iTunes if its price competitive and I get to skip that whole HD-DVD/BluRay debacle except for a couple titles that STILL don't exist in HD (like LOTR).
Oddly, I don't want to rent content. I'm a content packrat...hence the largish DVD collection. iTunes purchase is more appealing than XBox rental.
As for where is it heading? As long as there isn't widespread HDCP on PCs (Macs or Windows) I think the studios are squemish about selling HD movies on iTunes without aTV. With aTV they know they can hit the downrez bit anytime and not totally hose their iTunes HD movie sales.
Why did Apple do such a half-baked job with the Apple TV product? They could have done so much more with it. They still can and I'm sure they will in the future, but for the $299 it should allow a lot more flexibility and features than it does now
My goal is to eventually have all my media hidden from view in my entertainment area. I'm not interested in showing off my CD and DVD collection anymore. I'd rather just pick up a universal remote and queue up the media that I want.
ATV is a step in the right direction but I acknowledge that it isn't perfect yet. However I do acknowledge that it'll allow me to re-rip my CD collection in Apple Lossless and keep it digital the whole way into my AVR. I'm also looking forward to getting a DLSR and being able to stream my photos to ATV. It's going to be a niche product. I'm not a big movie downloader but I can't wait to be able to view my own HD Content (assuming I find a HD camcorder that I like) through ATV.
There could be some surprises. Let's say Apple supports Blu-ray and builds in the appropriate DRM handling system. What would be the value of being able to store a digital copy of Blu-ray movies that could be streamed to the ATV? This would likely require generation 2 of ATV but I could see this happening.
There's no way the studios will ever let you put a copy of a Blu-Ray disc on your computer. They may not be able to stop hacking, but they will try their hardest. It won't be something you will ever see directly from Apple.
As far as the requirements, the ATV website indicates a widescreen TV is required. More than likely you could hook it up to a regular 4:3 screen but it will probably look garbled and/or squashed; Either way, it won't be pretty.
And in case anyone is curious, Apple dropped the price of the Aiport Express with Airtunes by $30.
Comments
Somehow I think streaming Video to a mac mini wouldn't be very smooth. It's going over a G wireless network and running on a computer that has intel graphics.
That's what I thought, but then I tried it with a movie purchased off of iTunes, and it worked quite well. The airport connection did crap out once during the movie, but other than that the Airport had enough bandwidth for the movie.
It works
http://www.apple.com/appletv/specs.html
TV compatibility
* Enhanced-definition or high-definition widescreen TVs capable of 1080i 60/50Hz, 720p 60/50Hz, 576p 50Hz (PAL format), or 480p 60Hz
Are you sure? I think DeaPeaJay needs to know if his TV is 480i (SDTV) or 480p (EDTV). My 27" CRT has component video input but it's SDTV, making it incompatible with Apple TV if the tech specs are accurate. That's a deal-killer for my hope of replacing my dead EyeHome with ATV. Buying both a new TV and ATV right now is out of the question.
I was assured that European ATVs will produce RGB component analogue video output (which is necessary for the ATV to work with the majority of installed European widescreen TVs, but was not necessarily a given).
'If it's on iTunes, it's on TV.' Given that I have the Apple MPEG2 QT component and therefore can play MPEG2s in iTunes can I watch them with the ATV too? Yes, the Apple rep told me as the video will be transcoded to an ATV compatible codec as it is synced! Impressive... if true.
Are you sure? I think DeaPeaJay needs to know if his TV is 480i (SDTV) or 480p (EDTV). My 27" CRT has component video input but it's SDTV, making it incompatible with Apple TV if the tech specs are accurate. That's a deal-killer for my hope of replacing my dead EyeHome with ATV. Buying both a new TV and ATV right now is out of the question.
I don't know, I'd have to look it up. I'm pretty sure it's SDTV though. I've never used component video before, but wouldn't it be the same signal no matter what TV you have. If it puts out 480p video, will my 480i TV not know what to do with it? What good is the component video on the TV if you can't use it?
Why would they do that. None of the Airports have ever had hard drives in them. You're talking about Apple charging $50 more for this product but how is that possible.
Apple TV has
HDMI which requires licensing
40GB hard drive which requires the drive and controller
A processor strong enough to decode 720p HD video
It seems like your chief complaint is money as you really haven't supported your hypotheses that the Apple TV is lame. In fact I really haven't seen any of these streamers offer much more features for even the same price.
Apple doesn't whore their product out. If your an Apple user you know there will be a slight premium but the demands are high that the product functions correctly and looks good.
You're right. They can't make an airport with those components for only $50 more. Still, I can't help but feel that the actual functionality of this product isn't worth that much more to me. There aren't yet any 720p movies even available for it yet, so how does 720p or HDMI impress me when the new standards are moving to 1080p? What do I need a 40 GB hard drive for? If I can't store ALL of my movies and music on it and the wireless is capable of streaming it from the computer, what good is it really doing anyway?
My real point was that this product would have been better recieved (regardless of price) as an improvement to Airport... like 'AirVideo' as MacBear called it. This would have been so becuase when Apple reveals a new product, people expect to be impressed and this just isn't that impressive as a new product. However, I'm sure it is extremely well made, easy to use, and elegantly designed. You probably get your money's worth in that aspect. I hope more comes of it in the future, because I do like the idea of Apple designing AV components. This, however, just doesn't excite me and therefore I view it as 'lame'.
It would be great if there was a comparision between download experience and quality between AppleTV and the Xbox 360.
But thinking about it I would put money on a wireless iPod coming that will be able to communicate with Apple TV.
Maybe iLife 07 will be able to offer the above and possibly Lepoard has features that integrate Apple TV even more?
May be Quicktime 8 have integration with Apple tv?
1- I have a 42" plasma on the living room wall. My wife and I wanted to be able to stream our photos to it to show other people as well as provide the room with some "art" (if you count my photography as that). I know there are easier/ cheaper ways of doing this, but they require fiddling around. We want something that we can turn on and walk away in less than 30 sec.
2- I actually have a lot of movies already ripped into iTunes. Why not just send them to the TV. yeah, they won't be as nice as my HD DVD's, but it's quick.
3- I don't buy movies via itunes, but I do buy TV shows. This is an easy way to get them to the TV.
4- According to apple's website I can stream video if the wireless network is fast enough. Hence, the reason I bought the new airport as well. In additiona, the new airport can be attached to an external hard drive and used as a shared drive. I'm hoping to park my video on this and stream it all to the appleTV. (syncing using the built in hard drive would suck).
5-I'm also hoping that in the future something will change to accept additonal video files.
It's not perfect, but it's a start. I'll start by jumping on this as I did with my original 5gb and see where it goes.
And I'm sort of not in the niche: my Mac now IS my TV. Thanks to a 24" iMac with EyeTV. So I have a complete, integrated, remote-controllable widescreen home entertainment solution complete with TiVo functionality, in my living room.
I know most people keep their computer and TV separate, though.
So... maybe the AppleTV's benefit stems mainly from iTunes' benefits for TV and movies. We know quality is sub-DVD (but still good). We know selection is limited (for current shows and especially movies--it's nice to have access to older shows, but NetFlix has even more of those plus far more movies).
Those are the downsides. Here are the positives:
No TV ads.
No TV schedule--watch when you want (starting about a day later than broadcast), and no need to even record first, nor keep track of what's coming up. Browse past shows, not just what's on cable now.
No wait for your movies (NetFlix mail, or drive to the store). Iinstant gratification. Video even streams before it's done downloading.
Easy iPod/iPhone integration.
Those are nice things, no doubt. Quality will improve eventually--it already did once. And selection will too, though it's hard to imagine equalling Netflix (which I used to enjoy, but the throttling and unpredictability drove me away).
Quality is already at the "good enough" stage, even if it's not HD. Selection, then is the key thing that needs to keep improving. TV shows have been on a roll for some time, and Paramount is a good sign regarding movies.
So here's my current theory:
* AppleTV will appeal to only a small niche of people right now.
* With a MUCH larger selection of video/movie content on iTunes, it will gain a much larger audience.
* But it's a chicken-and-egg scenario. Video iPods alone are not enough to drive shows and movies to iTunes en masse. TV is where people want to watch them. Content providers need incentive to get their stuff on iTunes. Consumers need content to make them buy AppleTV. Which of the two comes first? More TV/movie content, with limited uses for it? Or AppleTV, with limited content to show on it?
* Apple can only control one of the two. So they release AppleTV before there's really a demand for it. Now the egg is laid. Some consumers will buy it, not many. But the platform is there as a gesture to content owners. More content will follow, and THEN more consumers will follow.
* Niche product for only a small number of people? Yes. It's a snowball that HAS to start small. Just like mobile video started small by tacking it onto the music iPod.
* So maybe we shouldn't be waiting for more AppleTV features, cool as they might be to imagine (like PVR). Maybe we should just be waiting for more TV shows and more movies on iTunes. It sounds boring, but maybe that's the main thing needed to make AppleTV (and who knows what other ventures) take off.
4- According to apple's website I can stream video if the wireless network is fast enough. Hence, the reason I bought the new airport as well. In additiona, the new airport can be attached to an external hard drive and used as a shared drive. I'm hoping to park my video on this and stream it all to the appleTV. (syncing using the built in hard drive would suck).
Ditto, I'm really hoping for that since I have a laptop and I'm running out of internal drive space. I really think that's what Apple had in mind when they allowed the airport to be used in this way. Wireless network storage is a HUGE HUGE HUGE plus for me as a mobile user. Let's see, my shopping list is already growing. I need to sell my MBP so I can get a computer with an N card. I need an Airport base station, an additional external drive so I can have one for Time Machine and one for media, a USB hub to connect them to the Airport. Also Leopard, iLife and iWork. Man, Apple is milking me dry!
Let's see, my shopping list is already growing. I need to sell my MBP so I can get a computer with an N card. I need an Airport base station, an additional external drive so I can have one for Time Machine and one for media, a USB hub to connect them to the Airport. Also Leopard, iLife and iWork. Man, Apple is milking me dry!
Exactly! My MacBook is filling up and my iMac also needs some breathing room.
Man, Apple is milking me dry!
Again. Exactly!
iTunes can already stream from another Mac/PC, so a Mac Mini hooked to TV sounds better in just about every way: you get the same remote, only now it plays DVDs and CDs too, and you have every app/media player/tuner/PVR that you might want to add: you have a complete Mac platform. You even have on-screen Web and email (especially with Leopard's scalable UI). As for WiFi n, at the moment, my g seems sufficient for streaming everything from iTunes TV shows to movie trailers.
What you don't get with the Mini:
HDMI output. Without HDMI output you don't get secure digital path for content from source (Apple.com) to display (HDTV via HDMI). Potentially we may not be able to play 720p/24 movies on our Macs once the studios set the downrez bit without HDCP compliant video cards except at 540p. Ditto on aTV folks using component out.
You're streaming H.264 720p trailers of G reliably? Cool. Trust me...you won't be once your neighbor gets draft-N. Hope you don't live near me in a few months.
And iTunes shows aren't HD (though of course that will happen one day). And when they are, AppleTV doesn't go as high res as some TVs--it only goes to 720p? (Not bad, but still, I enjoy 1080i HDTV sometimes.)
720p/24 is a reasonable compromise for download times and bandwidth requirements over 1080p/24 or 720p/60.
Unfortunately this also means that the TV shows aren't likely to get a rez bump unless they improve the published spec on aTV.
So AppleTV doesn't seem to do much that a Mini can't do already. Except it's cheaper! So it will have some market.
AND Apple can tell studios they have an end to end Fairplay DRM to HDMI videochain. Studios can safely distribute HD content without worries of casual copying (beyond managed sharing/copying). Also at 720p/24 its positioned slightly below the studio's next generation product (HD-DVD/BluRay).
Not that I really understand why they cared all THAT much...even 1080p is a far cry from master quality...
I can't help wondering what else Apple might have planned for it, though... and why they would be releasing it BEFORE it does anything else? With such hype, and a teaser pre-announcement? Apple seems to think it's bigger than I understand.
Outside of the PS3 and XBox no one else has end to end service to display security and control over implementation. That means aTV puts Apple on the same footing as Sony (well slightly less since they don't own a studio) and MS for video/film distribution. These three companies are uniquely positioned in the marketplace. Other companies have different advantages but only these three currently have soup to nuts content delivery control.
Vinea
PS Final note: 720p looks better than 1080i when compressed because progressive is easier to compress than interlaced. At the same compressed data rates 720p looked better than 1080i at the EBU IBC demo. Given that Apple will be streaming video from their servers to your machines and they get to pay for their big pipes as the provider they're going to be as bit starved as cable or sat HD.
http://televisionbroadcast.com/artic...cle_1467.shtml
Outside of that though, limited codecs exclude the interest of many. Eliminated, TVs without component or HDMI which excludes the vast majority of TVs out there. On the high end, people with 1080p or even 1080i TVs are likely to be disappointed that it maxes out at 720p.
An objection that could be taken care of in iTunes 8 which IMHO will likely get released with aTV (or a big rev of iTunes 7). While aTV might only do H.264 conversion from other format that Apple likes into h.264 will get built into iTunes. For those codecs Apple doesn't like there will be 3rd party tools to do conversion to H.264.
TVs without either component or HDMI won't care about Apple's HD offerings or aTV anway. In the mid range 720p/1080i sets outnumber 1080p sets and the cost differential is still high relative to gains.
Depending on how much compression Apple uses it may still look better than sat or cable HD movies. As I note above, 720p looks better than 1080i at the same bitrates.
Vinea
Maybe Murch or Vinea can help me on this. Where is this heading? What is the appeal of this device? I don't think I understand purpose and goal of ATV because I don't know why anyone would want this.
backtomac
My goal is to eventually have all my media hidden from view in my entertainment area. I'm not interested in showing off my CD and DVD collection anymore. I'd rather just pick up a universal remote and queue up the media that I want.
ATV is a step in the right direction but I acknowledge that it isn't perfect yet. However I do acknowledge that it'll allow me to re-rip my CD collection in Apple Lossless and keep it digital the whole way into my AVR. I'm also looking forward to getting a DLSR and being able to stream my photos to ATV. It's going to be a niche product. I'm not a big movie downloader but I can't wait to be able to view my own HD Content (assuming I find a HD camcorder that I like) through ATV.
There could be some surprises. Let's say Apple supports Blu-ray and builds in the appropriate DRM handling system. What would be the value of being able to store a digital copy of Blu-ray movies that could be streamed to the ATV? This would likely require generation 2 of ATV but I could see this happening.
Maybe Murch or Vinea can help me on this. Where is this heading? What is the appeal of this device? I don't think I understand purpose and goal of ATV because I don't know why anyone would want this.
I think it still depends on seeing the final iTunes interface with aTV. If it can stream down movies or TV shows I purchased before or buy new without the computer on it has a lot of appeal. Or if Apple creates a NAS counterpart that works without a computer running.
Even as it is its not a bad IPTV model that's a la carte vs the buffet meal of cable or satellite. Less handy if you need the computer on but liveable. I get my fix of my shows with a season pass and I don't really have time for more. Why pay $100/month when I don't use it all if I can go a la carte?
Also, like murch there is a lot of appeal having my movie collection available through FrontRow/Coverflow. I've thought about ripping all my DVDs to a NAS but never had a front end I liked so never bothered. aTV looks to be that front end if I can get those DVDs into h.264 in iTunes for streaming resonably easily. I don't even care that much that it wont be uprez'd. Anything I care about I'll repurchase in 720p/24 from iTunes or buy on HD-DVD/Blu-Ray. There's maybe a handful of titles I would bother with. New titles I buy from iTunes if its price competitive and I get to skip that whole HD-DVD/BluRay debacle except for a couple titles that STILL don't exist in HD (like LOTR).
Oddly, I don't want to rent content. I'm a content packrat...hence the largish DVD collection. iTunes purchase is more appealing than XBox rental.
As for where is it heading? As long as there isn't widespread HDCP on PCs (Macs or Windows) I think the studios are squemish about selling HD movies on iTunes without aTV. With aTV they know they can hit the downrez bit anytime and not totally hose their iTunes HD movie sales.
Vinea
backtomac
My goal is to eventually have all my media hidden from view in my entertainment area. I'm not interested in showing off my CD and DVD collection anymore. I'd rather just pick up a universal remote and queue up the media that I want.
ATV is a step in the right direction but I acknowledge that it isn't perfect yet. However I do acknowledge that it'll allow me to re-rip my CD collection in Apple Lossless and keep it digital the whole way into my AVR. I'm also looking forward to getting a DLSR and being able to stream my photos to ATV. It's going to be a niche product. I'm not a big movie downloader but I can't wait to be able to view my own HD Content (assuming I find a HD camcorder that I like) through ATV.
There could be some surprises. Let's say Apple supports Blu-ray and builds in the appropriate DRM handling system. What would be the value of being able to store a digital copy of Blu-ray movies that could be streamed to the ATV? This would likely require generation 2 of ATV but I could see this happening.
There's no way the studios will ever let you put a copy of a Blu-Ray disc on your computer. They may not be able to stop hacking, but they will try their hardest. It won't be something you will ever see directly from Apple.
As far as the requirements, the ATV website indicates a widescreen TV is required. More than likely you could hook it up to a regular 4:3 screen but it will probably look garbled and/or squashed; Either way, it won't be pretty.
And in case anyone is curious, Apple dropped the price of the Aiport Express with Airtunes by $30.
There's no way the studios will ever let you put a copy of a Blu-Ray disc on your computer.
Which is why managed copy is part of the Blu-ray?
http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=60
Vinea