i think one thing that adds unnecessary thickness is the different connectors: RJ45, USB, FW400/800, DVI etc.
i'd like them to adopt maybe industry-wdie standardizations for all these that are smaller and thinner. if they were smaller and thinner we could reduce the space they take up in the machine which would allow for other stuff or more connections (goodbye USB and FW hubs)
I really don't like that type of transition. All it does for me is multiply the number of adapters that I need to buy and track. In my experience, the smaller connections are also less durable and are flakier too. Already, I wish my camcorder used standard SD, I've lost my mini-SD to SD adapter. I don't like the mini-USB, it just feels too delicate, the same goes for the mini Firewire jack.
Silly stuff like Apple's ADC may add short term utility, but it just means that adapters are harder to come by and adds unnecessary expense. An ADC to VGA adapter is now nearly impossible to find now, I found exactly one after a couple hours of searching.
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The DVI connection is unnecessarily thick.... they could move towards hdmi which would also carry sound too.
HDMI does not have a positive retention lock. Touch it just so, and the connection dies.
I don't know if this idea has been posted before. However here is what I thought. Why not have the cd drive under the keyboard? Press the eject button and part of the keyboard opens up like a door on hinges or perhaps a section of the keyboard raises up and moves to the side so you can access the drive. Place the cd inside and close the drive. They would have to figure out a way to have the keyboard still function but it's better than putting the drive on the bottom.
I like that idea. Iwas just going to suggest it myself
Others have mentioned it higher in the thread. The problem there would be that a keyboard needs to be good and stiff to have acceptable "feel." You can't do that on a thin, flip-up keyboard. If you were to look at the Powerbook G4, its keyboard was easy to remove and flexible, but it was supported by a pretty robust structure.
I've taken apart a few notebooks and from what I've noticed, it's VERY POSSIBLE to rigidize the keyboard sufficiently to prevent damage to an optical drive that might be located beneath it.
Case in point: Dell laptops that have the trackpoint (joystick) pointing device embedded in the keyboard. If you take one of these apart you will notice that there is a rigid metal plate beneath the keyboard which is significantly thicker than those of some other keyboards like ibooks or powerbooks, for example.
Above is an image from the newly-revamped Toughbook series. Interesting. Ugly. But necessary?
I'm sure it can be cleaned up a bit. It does save the complexity of an actuator or two or three, the ones that are needed to push/pull the optical drive, and the one needed to raise/lower the spindle. There's a third actuator on a slot loader for the lock-out device that prevents the accidental insertion of another disc when one is already there.
Though it's not in the patent but Apple could also pursue a pop-out optical disk mechanism ala Sony's PSP. Though I personally don't see the need or point in a portable laptop smaller than the current 13" Macbook. For starters it is just the right weight, and has just the right amount of widescreen monitor real estate needed for every day tasks.
It would be interesting to see any of their proposed patent mechanisms, I'm more than sure that if anybody can make it work, Apple can. An ODD behind the LCD would seem more practical than under the machine however. Then again it's apple, perhaps they will create an hydraulic sort of mechanism that will prop open the keyboard where you can place in the ODD. The possibilities are endless, but why switch from the slot loading mechanism and a 13" display?
I don't see what's wrong with a low-slung slot load drive, as long as when ejecting, the drive can push the disk far enough out so that the user can grab the disk by it's spindle hole, that's how I tend to grab optical disks anyway. All slot-loaders I've ever seen only give you enough of the disk to grab by getting finger-prints all over the reading surface, not the best thing to do, sorry. Spindle snap drives have that same problem to a degree, but they also force you to flex a disk a little to get them out, presenting a rare danger of breaking a disk, REALLY not good.
For an ultra portable I'd be very fine with no CD drive at all. Just leave it to an external.
Agreed. I have a MBP and had a MB before that and have seldom used the OD on either. When I do, it's more out of pity (It's there so I should at least use it once) than actual need. When I'm on the go, I use my iPod as my backup drive; it's bigger and faster than an OD and I carry it anyway to listen to music.
Keep the OD and all of its weight and bulk out of the ultra-portable and just make a stream-lined device that blows us away.
The system would open "a media access door to the interior of a disk drive sufficiently for ejection of disk media from the disk drive but insufficiently for manually engaging and removing disk media that is operationally positioned within the disk drive."
This thread has been around for awhile and over that time I've become convinced that ODDs as we know them are dead. Solid state storage or nano tech is the wave of the future. There isn't even a gaurantee that the solid state devices will be flash. I suspect that SD will be the short term mechanical standard followed by a new package that can exploit a much faster bus.
It is certainly a time of transition but the number one issue is that the mechanical nature of ODDs makes them a long term looser. It isn't just physical size but reliability that causes one to look elsewhere for removable storage.
This is exactly what I was thinking. The screen would be slightly thicker, but a slot loading drive on the screen would probably be one of the better options. SO long as it wouldn't mess w/the picture
This thread has been around for awhile and over that time I've become convinced that ODDs as we know them are dead. Solid state storage or nano tech is the wave of the future. There isn't even a gaurantee that the solid state devices will be flash. I suspect that SD will be the short term mechanical standard followed by a new package that can exploit a much faster bus.
It is certainly a time of transition but the number one issue is that the mechanical nature of ODDs makes them a long term looser. It isn't just physical size but reliability that causes one to look elsewhere for removable storage.
SD is probably going to be the removable storage standard for a decade, along side USB sticks. Just about every kind of device uses some form of SD card, and SDXC looks like a good continuation of that.
For the next decade, I still see some form of flash being the dominate solid storage. I haven't heard about anything that's even close to production, and that will take a while to ramp up to sufficient volume to replace flash. How much time depends on whether existing plants can be readily updated to a new manufacturing method, or if they have to build new ones.
Given how readily Apple has changed the MacBook cases already, I wouldn't be surprised if they do an update next year that drops the optical drive on more models.
SD is probably going to be the removable storage standard for a decade, along side USB sticks. Just about every kind of device uses some form of SD card, and SDXC looks like a good continuation of that.
these are both good formats for transfering files or backing up to and as such I expect them to be around awhile. USB 3 ought to advance the tranfer rate nicely for the USB sticks. However I don't see either filling the role of a high speed, secondary storage device that is also loadable via a slot on the computer or internal bay. Right now to only logical path I can see is to spec a hot swappable PCI-Express card designed specifically interface solid state secondary storage devices. It is the only common port that is fast enough for future growth.
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For the next decade, I still see some form of flash being the dominate solid storage. I haven't heard about anything that's even close to production, and that will take a while to ramp up to sufficient volume to replace flash.
There is atleast one tech that is hot on Flashes heals with viable production coming on line late this year or early next. Unfortunately I don't have my laptop with me nor do I have the magazine the article was in that discussed it. Maybe I can dig it up latter but some alternatives are not that far away. They are needed in fact because flash simply is running out of room. I really don't think that flash can increase it's capacity fast enough to support us in ten years.
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How much time depends on whether existing plants can be readily updated to a new manufacturing method, or if they have to build new ones.
right now there are a surplus of plants so that is good. Of course it depends on the technology in question, but some plants could be adapted.
Quote:
Given how readily Apple has changed the MacBook cases already, I wouldn't be surprised if they do an update next year that drops the optical drive on more models.
I'd be all for it if they used that free space positively. By that I mean the dropping of the internal CD drive needs to be offset by other gains. My number one want here is an increase in secondary storage. Like maybe 2 or 3 bays of 2.5" form factor "drIves" or 4 to 5 1.8" "drives". That would be via conventional drive and bays implementation, but I still believe this is an opportunity for Apple to show leadership.
What I'm looking at is for a little Apple innovation here. I believe laptops are where we need to start to see secondary storage moving to PC cards. PC cards interfaced via PCI Express. The card format could be easily designed so that four SSD cards sit in the space of a CD drive. Basically each card would be about 2.5" wide & about 5" long. Stacked two high that would allow for four in the CD bay. Now the really good thing here is area on the card which means easy installation of lots of chips which ought to hold costs even with relatively large "disk modules". Also note that we haven't even touched the conventional drive bay.
Now what is motivating me here. Well it is simple it is the fact that I seem to run out of disk space 3 months after I buy a laptop and upgrading that storage is expensive on a laptop. Being able to snap in another 256GB module as needed would be sweet.
On a side note I was very surprised at the laptop updates at WWDC. The updates where far above expectations and frankly I'm not sure why. So I'm taking this as a sign that Apple will continue to be agressive in the future. So maybe we will see hints of a move away from CDs in the near future. Hopefully that will be coupled with other nice features.
Comments
i think one thing that adds unnecessary thickness is the different connectors: RJ45, USB, FW400/800, DVI etc.
i'd like them to adopt maybe industry-wdie standardizations for all these that are smaller and thinner. if they were smaller and thinner we could reduce the space they take up in the machine which would allow for other stuff or more connections (goodbye USB and FW hubs)
I really don't like that type of transition. All it does for me is multiply the number of adapters that I need to buy and track. In my experience, the smaller connections are also less durable and are flakier too. Already, I wish my camcorder used standard SD, I've lost my mini-SD to SD adapter. I don't like the mini-USB, it just feels too delicate, the same goes for the mini Firewire jack.
Silly stuff like Apple's ADC may add short term utility, but it just means that adapters are harder to come by and adds unnecessary expense. An ADC to VGA adapter is now nearly impossible to find now, I found exactly one after a couple hours of searching.
The DVI connection is unnecessarily thick.... they could move towards hdmi which would also carry sound too.
HDMI does not have a positive retention lock. Touch it just so, and the connection dies.
I don't know if this idea has been posted before. However here is what I thought. Why not have the cd drive under the keyboard? Press the eject button and part of the keyboard opens up like a door on hinges or perhaps a section of the keyboard raises up and moves to the side so you can access the drive. Place the cd inside and close the drive. They would have to figure out a way to have the keyboard still function but it's better than putting the drive on the bottom.
I like that idea. Iwas just going to suggest it myself
Others have mentioned it higher in the thread. The problem there would be that a keyboard needs to be good and stiff to have acceptable "feel." You can't do that on a thin, flip-up keyboard. If you were to look at the Powerbook G4, its keyboard was easy to remove and flexible, but it was supported by a pretty robust structure.
I've taken apart a few notebooks and from what I've noticed, it's VERY POSSIBLE to rigidize the keyboard sufficiently to prevent damage to an optical drive that might be located beneath it.
Case in point: Dell laptops that have the trackpoint (joystick) pointing device embedded in the keyboard. If you take one of these apart you will notice that there is a rigid metal plate beneath the keyboard which is significantly thicker than those of some other keyboards like ibooks or powerbooks, for example.
Above is an image from the newly-revamped Toughbook series. Interesting. Ugly. But necessary?
Above is an image from the newly-revamped Toughbook series. Interesting. Ugly. But necessary?
Ugly or not, I would prefer not to have to turn the machine over to get at the disk.
Sometimes, being different isn't better.
Above is an image from the newly-revamped Toughbook series. Interesting. Ugly. But necessary?
I'm sure it can be cleaned up a bit. It does save the complexity of an actuator or two or three, the ones that are needed to push/pull the optical drive, and the one needed to raise/lower the spindle. There's a third actuator on a slot loader for the lock-out device that prevents the accidental insertion of another disc when one is already there.
It would be interesting to see any of their proposed patent mechanisms, I'm more than sure that if anybody can make it work, Apple can. An ODD behind the LCD would seem more practical than under the machine however. Then again it's apple, perhaps they will create an hydraulic sort of mechanism that will prop open the keyboard where you can place in the ODD. The possibilities are endless, but why switch from the slot loading mechanism and a 13" display?
For an ultra portable I'd be very fine with no CD drive at all. Just leave it to an external.
Agreed. I have a MBP and had a MB before that and have seldom used the OD on either. When I do, it's more out of pity (It's there so I should at least use it once) than actual need. When I'm on the go, I use my iPod as my backup drive; it's bigger and faster than an OD and I carry it anyway to listen to music.
Keep the OD and all of its weight and bulk out of the ultra-portable and just make a stream-lined device that blows us away.
sonnerie portable gratuite
It is certainly a time of transition but the number one issue is that the mechanical nature of ODDs makes them a long term looser. It isn't just physical size but reliability that causes one to look elsewhere for removable storage.
Dave
Or, put it in the display.
This is exactly what I was thinking. The screen would be slightly thicker, but a slot loading drive on the screen would probably be one of the better options. SO long as it wouldn't mess w/the picture
This thread has been around for awhile and over that time I've become convinced that ODDs as we know them are dead. Solid state storage or nano tech is the wave of the future. There isn't even a gaurantee that the solid state devices will be flash. I suspect that SD will be the short term mechanical standard followed by a new package that can exploit a much faster bus.
It is certainly a time of transition but the number one issue is that the mechanical nature of ODDs makes them a long term looser. It isn't just physical size but reliability that causes one to look elsewhere for removable storage.
SD is probably going to be the removable storage standard for a decade, along side USB sticks. Just about every kind of device uses some form of SD card, and SDXC looks like a good continuation of that.
For the next decade, I still see some form of flash being the dominate solid storage. I haven't heard about anything that's even close to production, and that will take a while to ramp up to sufficient volume to replace flash. How much time depends on whether existing plants can be readily updated to a new manufacturing method, or if they have to build new ones.
Given how readily Apple has changed the MacBook cases already, I wouldn't be surprised if they do an update next year that drops the optical drive on more models.
SD is probably going to be the removable storage standard for a decade, along side USB sticks. Just about every kind of device uses some form of SD card, and SDXC looks like a good continuation of that.
these are both good formats for transfering files or backing up to and as such I expect them to be around awhile. USB 3 ought to advance the tranfer rate nicely for the USB sticks. However I don't see either filling the role of a high speed, secondary storage device that is also loadable via a slot on the computer or internal bay. Right now to only logical path I can see is to spec a hot swappable PCI-Express card designed specifically interface solid state secondary storage devices. It is the only common port that is fast enough for future growth.
For the next decade, I still see some form of flash being the dominate solid storage. I haven't heard about anything that's even close to production, and that will take a while to ramp up to sufficient volume to replace flash.
There is atleast one tech that is hot on Flashes heals with viable production coming on line late this year or early next. Unfortunately I don't have my laptop with me nor do I have the magazine the article was in that discussed it. Maybe I can dig it up latter but some alternatives are not that far away. They are needed in fact because flash simply is running out of room. I really don't think that flash can increase it's capacity fast enough to support us in ten years.
How much time depends on whether existing plants can be readily updated to a new manufacturing method, or if they have to build new ones.
right now there are a surplus of plants so that is good. Of course it depends on the technology in question, but some plants could be adapted.
Given how readily Apple has changed the MacBook cases already, I wouldn't be surprised if they do an update next year that drops the optical drive on more models.
I'd be all for it if they used that free space positively. By that I mean the dropping of the internal CD drive needs to be offset by other gains. My number one want here is an increase in secondary storage. Like maybe 2 or 3 bays of 2.5" form factor "drIves" or 4 to 5 1.8" "drives". That would be via conventional drive and bays implementation, but I still believe this is an opportunity for Apple to show leadership.
What I'm looking at is for a little Apple innovation here. I believe laptops are where we need to start to see secondary storage moving to PC cards. PC cards interfaced via PCI Express. The card format could be easily designed so that four SSD cards sit in the space of a CD drive. Basically each card would be about 2.5" wide & about 5" long. Stacked two high that would allow for four in the CD bay. Now the really good thing here is area on the card which means easy installation of lots of chips which ought to hold costs even with relatively large "disk modules". Also note that we haven't even touched the conventional drive bay.
Now what is motivating me here. Well it is simple it is the fact that I seem to run out of disk space 3 months after I buy a laptop and upgrading that storage is expensive on a laptop. Being able to snap in another 256GB module as needed would be sweet.
On a side note I was very surprised at the laptop updates at WWDC. The updates where far above expectations and frankly I'm not sure why. So I'm taking this as a sign that Apple will continue to be agressive in the future. So maybe we will see hints of a move away from CDs in the near future. Hopefully that will be coupled with other nice features.
Dave