I respect peoples right to believe anything they want. I read this forum to learn. Everyone has been so helpful. There is so much passion about this company and the product line. I am amazed this thread is alive. I rarely read this type of rubbish. I also respect free speech. However I do not think this is the place to push propaganda of any sort.
Hi Shetline, it's me, Addabox. Or, should I say, Satan. You don't know how hard it's been for me, hanging around here, waiting for you to say the simple words that make you mine forever.
Don't worry though, you'll feel like you never left-- all the "christian" posters on these boards will be joining you shortly. I must say, turning the Galilean's little cult into an ideology of brutality and aggression was one of my better turns.
Everyone's always ragging on the Jews for killing Christ. Well, Christians do.
Why don't they hate the Italians? I mean, it's not like the Romans didn't have a hand in the crucifixion.
As their descendants, why don't the Italians get it as bad as the Jews?
Just a question.
I know this means that Italian Christians should automatically be self-haters, but there's a quite delicious irony there...
On topic, I love this thread.
I am also quite, quite damned. I burn brimstone incense sticks. I have Charles Darwin's beard tattooed on my face. I hand out scientific tracts outside churches.
I respect peoples right to believe anything they want. I read this forum to learn. Everyone has been so helpful. There is so much passion about this company and the product line. I am amazed this thread is alive. I rarely read this type of rubbish. I also respect free speech. However I do not think this is the place to push propaganda of any sort.
You, and Ireland, are under no obligation to read the thread.
Considering that the original poster did return to the thread I'm no longer considering it as blatant spam. It is, however, in the wrong forum and I'm moving it to AppleOutsider.
Woot! Maybe if we up the level of godlessness we can get it moved to Political Outsider, the sulfurous sinkhole of all things godless in the Apple Insider firmament!
You know, the forum with the crudely lettered sign hanging at the entrance that says "All hope abandon ye who enter here."
Jews clearly eat babies, the souls of the innocent, and drink the blood of the apostles. I find the combination to be quite gratifying to be honest. Though the spice of recently sodomized would be innocents is a tempting alternative to just plain old innocents... It is a bit like the difference between boiled chicken and chicken stewed in a nice curry...
Mmm... Well, I'm off to feast on gnews' cousins...
You mean the sign hanging above the tunnel to the Pirates of the Caribbean?
Shhhh....... the Apple/Disney/Satan merger is in a delicate phase, we don't want to go public yet.
Think about it-- have you ever seen anyone leaving Pirates of the Caribbean? And does anyone ever stop arguing at Political Outsider?
I'll leave it to you to connect the dots, but for you rumor fans: a little bird tells me to keep an eye out for a major new attraction at a certain southern California theme park that's whispered to be a real "heart stopper".
Could it be the long anticipated Apple presents a PIxar production of Steve Job's Soul Sucker Materialist Express? You didn't hear it here, but watch out for the that last "plunge", it's a doozy!
it's interesting to see how much opposition there is to this post. It doesn't really surprise me though. Jesus was a pretty controversial person, and he was either the son of God and savior of the world, or a lunatic who needed to be shut up. Either what he said was true, or false. I haven't heard many people question the actual existence of Jesus, but I constantly hear questioning of his validity. Heck, the validity of what he said have been questioned since he was alive. It's obviously still going on today. People tend to hate Jesus and his message, or love him. The few inbetweens, in my opinion, don't know enough about him.
the prayer of salvation is a popular form of "gaining salvation," but I think everyone is missing the point. It's not a "get out of jail free" card. If there is a God and this whole Jesus thing is true, don't you think that God would be a little smarter than that? Why would He give a quick way to salvation and let us live our lives the way we want. (Paul of Tarsus talks about that by the way and explains that if you do believe in Christ, then it's not just a get out of jail free card) God would want more of us. God, the author of life, knows the best way to live. I'm not going to ramble on and explain why God made laws and why He wants us to live morally. Just know that God is obviously interested in more than a few words from your mouth.
Finally, those who are bashing this whole christian thing so much, that's fine. You are free to believe what you want, love what you want, and hate what you want, but don't do it ignorantly. (I'm not saying you have, just cautioning you not to) If christianity is false, it is of no importance. If it's true, it is of infinite importance. It cannot, however, be moderately important.
it's interesting to see how much opposition there is to this post. It doesn't really surprise me though. Jesus was a pretty controversial person, and he was either the son of God and savior of the world, or a lunatic who needed to be shut up. Either what he said was true, or false. I haven't heard many people question the actual existence of Jesus, but I constantly hear questioning of his validity. Heck, the validity of what he said have been questioned since he was alive. It's obviously still going on today. People tend to hate Jesus and his message, or love him. The few inbetweens, in my opinion, don't know enough about him.
the prayer of salvation is a popular form of "gaining salvation," but I think everyone is missing the point. It's not a "get out of jail free" card. If there is a God and this whole Jesus thing is true, don't you think that God would be a little smarter than that? Why would He give a quick way to salvation and let us live our lives the way we want. (Paul of Tarsus talks about that by the way and explains that if you do believe in Christ, then it's not just a get out of jail free card) God would want more of us. God, the author of life, knows the best way to live. I'm not going to ramble on and explain why God made laws and why He wants us to live morally. Just know that God is obviously interested in more than a few words from your mouth.
Finally, those who are bashing this whole christian thing so much, that's fine. You are free to believe what you want, love what you want, and hate what you want, but don't do it ignorantly. (I'm not saying you have, just cautioning you not to) If christianity is false, it is of no importance. If it's true, it is of infinite importance. It cannot, however, be moderately important.
I'll call you and raise you $100 -
I'll claim Jesus of Nazareth and Paul of Tarsus are entirely made up fictional characters.
Do you really expect threads like this to work? As a Christian, my faith has grown through relationships with other Christians. I have modeled my life by seeing other Christians walk the good walk. When others have ministered to me, I have become closer to God and more firm in my beliefs.
While I applaud your willingness to outreach, I have to wonder if there's anyone on the information superhighway that would convert their lives to Christ simply because they read your original post. Okay, maybe they're in a slump. Maybe they see nowhere else to turn. Maybe they say the prayer you posted. At some point, though, they still need to go to church to surround themselves with other believers who can lead them along the way.
It all comes down to the relationships between God's children. Christians befriend those without faith and show them what it means to walk the path of a disciple.
gnews' post reminded me of Fellowship's earlier entry into the world of AI.
His post raises good questions about the value of the scattershot approach to Missions (or the lack of value of it, depending on your position.)
Of course, the JWs are famous for showing up on the doorsteps of people they don't know. It seems to work for them and the Salt Lake Crew.
Maybe someone going through a rough time will find the Way through a post like gnews' but - as we have seen - you can also increase the level of animosity and bitterness with such a one-dimensional approach.
(Marc's responses don't count. He's always that way.)
I think relating Jesus' message should be first directed to those around you (family, friends, co-workers, neighbours etc.) Internet evangelism of the type in the first post may be well intentioned, but it strikes me also as being a bit lazy. When I first saw it, I thought the same thing AudioP did, that it was simply impersonal spam.
...... People tend to hate Jesus and his message, or love him. The few inbetweens, in my opinion, don't know enough about him.....
I think you're very wrong about that. People don't tend to hate or love Jesus' message, they tend to hate or love christians, particularly the politically aggressive kind who can support wars of aggression and unfettered capitalism while harshly denouncing the corrosive influence of the "secularists".
Of course, any christian can plausibly deny culpability for that trend, but the fact is the face of christianity in America is currently shaped by anti-gay, anti-abortion, anti-evolution, anti-liberal, pro-war, and pro-capitalism forces. It might not be fair, it might not be what even the majority of christians in America are about, but there it is.
When people react against this agenda, it is disingenuous to claim that they are reacting against "Jesus' message", unless you want to insist that the current crop of right-wing activist christians simply embody that message entire and to decry their tactics is to decry their faith.
At any rate, were I a christian with an interest in sharing my message of hope and liberation, I would be working with like minded christians to counter the crudely political machinations of my intemperate brethren, since I think they are doing a lot to make christianity appear to be a religion of anger and intolerance,
I understand your point Adda, but the real message of Jesus is also despised simply because it stands against the basic structures and ambitions of this world.
And that goes for those both on the Left and on the Right.
If Jesus came back to live on Earth today, we'd likely crucify him all over again.
I understand your point Adda, but the real message of Jesus is also despised simply because it stands against the basic structures and ambitions of this world.
And that goes for those both on the Left and on the Right.
If Jesus came back to live on Earth today, we'd likely crucify him all over again.
But I don't think the message is "despised", particularly. Ignored, certainly, regarded with a certain queasy misgiving, maybe, but not despised.
Sure, there are aggressively secular people who regard faith as a weakness and Jesus as a fairy tale for the credulous, but, again, this is not so much a reaction to Jesus' actual teachings as it is to the political landscape formed by those that profess to believe these things.
In the American liberal tradition this often takes the form of animosity towards certain Christian's emphasis on the rewards and punishments of the afterlife, which is used as a strategy to moot concerns about "earthly" justice, poverty, etc.
Even worse, so called christian cults of millennialism seem to be pretty fucking sanguine about the idea of the world ending in fire, like, right now, which can be a fairly off putting attitude for those of use not particularly invested in being taken up in the twinkling of an eye. When the president himself gets all Revelations on us, as Reagan had a habit of doing, is it really so surprising that a lot of people might start to go "hmmmm, this christian thing-- bat shit crazy, and dangerous to boot."
And that really has nothing whatsoever to do with "Christ's message".
honestly, I couldn't agree more. There are a lot of christians in the world, and not quite as many followers of Christ. Christianity is usually associated with anti-gay, anti-abortion, anti-evolution, anti-liberal, pro-war, and pro-capitalism forces, and the people who are against that, I am right there. You make a good point and I was somewhat wrong on my judgment about why people are so opposed to gnews's post. Jesus's message is countercultural, and does bring opposition, but that is not why the people here are so opposed. Unfortunately people started to think that "God hates fags," and that war is encouraged and commanded by God. I promise you, Jesus does not agree with that. It's sad that Christianity has had such a face put on it. If people, christians and non-christians alike, read what Jesus said and did, they would know what He really stood for and not what the American church has painted christianity to look like.
Comments
Don't worry though, you'll feel like you never left-- all the "christian" posters on these boards will be joining you shortly. I must say, turning the Galilean's little cult into an ideology of brutality and aggression was one of my better turns.
Anywho, see you in hell!
Everyone's always ragging on the Jews for killing Christ. Well, Christians do.
Why don't they hate the Italians? I mean, it's not like the Romans didn't have a hand in the crucifixion.
As their descendants, why don't the Italians get it as bad as the Jews?
Just a question.
I know this means that Italian Christians should automatically be self-haters, but there's a quite delicious irony there...
On topic, I love this thread.
I am also quite, quite damned. I burn brimstone incense sticks. I have Charles Darwin's beard tattooed on my face. I hand out scientific tracts outside churches.
I respect peoples right to believe anything they want. I read this forum to learn. Everyone has been so helpful. There is so much passion about this company and the product line. I am amazed this thread is alive. I rarely read this type of rubbish. I also respect free speech. However I do not think this is the place to push propaganda of any sort.
You, and Ireland, are under no obligation to read the thread.
Considering that the original poster did return to the thread I'm no longer considering it as blatant spam. It is, however, in the wrong forum and I'm moving it to AppleOutsider.
You know, the forum with the crudely lettered sign hanging at the entrance that says "All hope abandon ye who enter here."
Jews clearly eat babies, the souls of the innocent, and drink the blood of the apostles. I find the combination to be quite gratifying to be honest. Though the spice of recently sodomized would be innocents is a tempting alternative to just plain old innocents... It is a bit like the difference between boiled chicken and chicken stewed in a nice curry...
Mmm... Well, I'm off to feast on gnews' cousins...
You know, the forum with the crudely lettered sign hanging at the entrance that says "All hope abandon ye who enter here."
You mean the sign hanging above the tunnel to the Pirates of the Caribbean?
You mean the sign hanging above the tunnel to the Pirates of the Caribbean?
Shhhh....... the Apple/Disney/Satan merger is in a delicate phase, we don't want to go public yet.
Think about it-- have you ever seen anyone leaving Pirates of the Caribbean? And does anyone ever stop arguing at Political Outsider?
I'll leave it to you to connect the dots, but for you rumor fans: a little bird tells me to keep an eye out for a major new attraction at a certain southern California theme park that's whispered to be a real "heart stopper".
Could it be the long anticipated Apple presents a PIxar production of Steve Job's Soul Sucker Materialist Express? You didn't hear it here, but watch out for the that last "plunge", it's a doozy!
Zippadee doo dah!
the prayer of salvation is a popular form of "gaining salvation," but I think everyone is missing the point. It's not a "get out of jail free" card. If there is a God and this whole Jesus thing is true, don't you think that God would be a little smarter than that? Why would He give a quick way to salvation and let us live our lives the way we want. (Paul of Tarsus talks about that by the way and explains that if you do believe in Christ, then it's not just a get out of jail free card) God would want more of us. God, the author of life, knows the best way to live. I'm not going to ramble on and explain why God made laws and why He wants us to live morally. Just know that God is obviously interested in more than a few words from your mouth.
Finally, those who are bashing this whole christian thing so much, that's fine. You are free to believe what you want, love what you want, and hate what you want, but don't do it ignorantly. (I'm not saying you have, just cautioning you not to) If christianity is false, it is of no importance. If it's true, it is of infinite importance. It cannot, however, be moderately important.
it's interesting to see how much opposition there is to this post. It doesn't really surprise me though. Jesus was a pretty controversial person, and he was either the son of God and savior of the world, or a lunatic who needed to be shut up. Either what he said was true, or false. I haven't heard many people question the actual existence of Jesus, but I constantly hear questioning of his validity. Heck, the validity of what he said have been questioned since he was alive. It's obviously still going on today. People tend to hate Jesus and his message, or love him. The few inbetweens, in my opinion, don't know enough about him.
the prayer of salvation is a popular form of "gaining salvation," but I think everyone is missing the point. It's not a "get out of jail free" card. If there is a God and this whole Jesus thing is true, don't you think that God would be a little smarter than that? Why would He give a quick way to salvation and let us live our lives the way we want. (Paul of Tarsus talks about that by the way and explains that if you do believe in Christ, then it's not just a get out of jail free card) God would want more of us. God, the author of life, knows the best way to live. I'm not going to ramble on and explain why God made laws and why He wants us to live morally. Just know that God is obviously interested in more than a few words from your mouth.
Finally, those who are bashing this whole christian thing so much, that's fine. You are free to believe what you want, love what you want, and hate what you want, but don't do it ignorantly. (I'm not saying you have, just cautioning you not to) If christianity is false, it is of no importance. If it's true, it is of infinite importance. It cannot, however, be moderately important.
I'll call you and raise you $100 -
I'll claim Jesus of Nazareth and Paul of Tarsus are entirely made up fictional characters.
Your call???
If there is a god then why not gods? Lonely sod. No wonder He made us playthings and incarnated himself to have a go.
Do you really expect threads like this to work? As a Christian, my faith has grown through relationships with other Christians. I have modeled my life by seeing other Christians walk the good walk. When others have ministered to me, I have become closer to God and more firm in my beliefs.
While I applaud your willingness to outreach, I have to wonder if there's anyone on the information superhighway that would convert their lives to Christ simply because they read your original post. Okay, maybe they're in a slump. Maybe they see nowhere else to turn. Maybe they say the prayer you posted. At some point, though, they still need to go to church to surround themselves with other believers who can lead them along the way.
It all comes down to the relationships between God's children. Christians befriend those without faith and show them what it means to walk the path of a disciple.
His post raises good questions about the value of the scattershot approach to Missions (or the lack of value of it, depending on your position.)
Of course, the JWs are famous for showing up on the doorsteps of people they don't know. It seems to work for them and the Salt Lake Crew.
Maybe someone going through a rough time will find the Way through a post like gnews' but - as we have seen - you can also increase the level of animosity and bitterness with such a one-dimensional approach.
(Marc's responses don't count. He's always that way.)
I think relating Jesus' message should be first directed to those around you (family, friends, co-workers, neighbours etc.) Internet evangelism of the type in the first post may be well intentioned, but it strikes me also as being a bit lazy. When I first saw it, I thought the same thing AudioP did, that it was simply impersonal spam.
...... People tend to hate Jesus and his message, or love him. The few inbetweens, in my opinion, don't know enough about him.....
I think you're very wrong about that. People don't tend to hate or love Jesus' message, they tend to hate or love christians, particularly the politically aggressive kind who can support wars of aggression and unfettered capitalism while harshly denouncing the corrosive influence of the "secularists".
Of course, any christian can plausibly deny culpability for that trend, but the fact is the face of christianity in America is currently shaped by anti-gay, anti-abortion, anti-evolution, anti-liberal, pro-war, and pro-capitalism forces. It might not be fair, it might not be what even the majority of christians in America are about, but there it is.
When people react against this agenda, it is disingenuous to claim that they are reacting against "Jesus' message", unless you want to insist that the current crop of right-wing activist christians simply embody that message entire and to decry their tactics is to decry their faith.
At any rate, were I a christian with an interest in sharing my message of hope and liberation, I would be working with like minded christians to counter the crudely political machinations of my intemperate brethren, since I think they are doing a lot to make christianity appear to be a religion of anger and intolerance,
The devil's work, if you will.
And that goes for those both on the Left and on the Right.
If Jesus came back to live on Earth today, we'd likely crucify him all over again.
I understand your point Adda, but the real message of Jesus is also despised simply because it stands against the basic structures and ambitions of this world.
And that goes for those both on the Left and on the Right.
If Jesus came back to live on Earth today, we'd likely crucify him all over again.
But I don't think the message is "despised", particularly. Ignored, certainly, regarded with a certain queasy misgiving, maybe, but not despised.
Sure, there are aggressively secular people who regard faith as a weakness and Jesus as a fairy tale for the credulous, but, again, this is not so much a reaction to Jesus' actual teachings as it is to the political landscape formed by those that profess to believe these things.
In the American liberal tradition this often takes the form of animosity towards certain Christian's emphasis on the rewards and punishments of the afterlife, which is used as a strategy to moot concerns about "earthly" justice, poverty, etc.
Even worse, so called christian cults of millennialism seem to be pretty fucking sanguine about the idea of the world ending in fire, like, right now, which can be a fairly off putting attitude for those of use not particularly invested in being taken up in the twinkling of an eye. When the president himself gets all Revelations on us, as Reagan had a habit of doing, is it really so surprising that a lot of people might start to go "hmmmm, this christian thing-- bat shit crazy, and dangerous to boot."
And that really has nothing whatsoever to do with "Christ's message".