I don't like vista attacks because it will only make hardcore win users hate apple more. Already they don't buy apple stuff exept for ipods and now that apple and MS are doing battle again and the zune exsists they're loosing ipod sales to people that would rather use something more klunky just to make a point.
I believe that you don't get people by alienating them. While I like the apple ads I think they should also have ads that actually show people wtf the software looks like.
People know "the mac guy" and "the pc guy" but do they know what OSX even looks like? No. Most people I know haven't used a mac since we used OS7 or 8 or something in elementary school and have nothing but bad memories about macs.
This is what I get in lectures from the hot girls I sit next to:
"Is that a mac?"
"Yeah"
"Oh I don't like those, they're hard to use"
"No it's not, it's easier if anything"
"Well I hated them in elementary school"
"It's different now"
*presses F9
"Omg that's cool!"
Then I spend the rest of the time just getting to know her and making her interested in macs.
This has happened 4 times this year, no lie.
That's retarded I shouldn't be picking up girls with computers, they should already know that the damn thing looks like.
Careful. You're about to be gang-tackled by the Apple Apologista Squad?, who insist that $2500 is a reasonable minimum entry-fee for an expandable Mac desktop.
For myself, I completely agree with you on this. Even if a lot of folks don't use expandability, a lot of them LIKE the IDEA of being able to expand their box/swap cards if need be, and will buy based in part on it. And Apple, if it were smart on this, would be just as happy to sell to folks who never actually use their expandibility but buy based on it, as it does to the folks who actually use/need expandability.
I mean, what kind of company goes, "Nah, you don't really need that. I know what's best for you"... and expects to be as successful as possible with that approach?
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100% agree.
I almost got my cousin as a switcher but he wants to be able to upgrade his vid card over the years for games. I can't even blame him for that. The crappy emachines I used to use that I donated to him can play any modern game because of it's "last gen" apg slot (there are still a few good apg cards kicking around). This computer is 4-5 years old.
While apple systems may be able to have a useable computer OS wise(at least the PPCs were), they're essentially useless game wise.
I can't even blame him, he's not hardcore or anything, if he was he'd build his own, but he likes to play pc games, which in 2-3 yrs an imac most likely won't be able to do.
He's gonna be in the market to buy a pc (he wants a desktop he said) in the fall, I'm hoping apple delivers before then.
He doesn't even like microsoft, his allegiance is to games and expandability. He'd rather put up with hating windows and have expandability then have a mac and be out in the cold.
There are many, many people who disagree with you on that. Most folks cite some combination of OS, Intel switch, iPod Halo effect, and a growing realization that Apple makes good comps. I think attributing it all to just one factor is a bit overly simplistic.
We'll see, won't we?
Uh... they can present the OS that Vista pretty much copies all-around... Tiger. \ In any case, if Apple did promote Leopard right now, folks would then be crying that Apple was comparing their 'vaporware' to MS's shipping OS.
Far as Leopard goes, don't worry, I'm sure you'll be hearing all about it soon enough, aka by summer.
Well, logic and reason of a kind, I guess. But we can agree to disagree. 8)
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Vista is out if you haven't noticed I doubt Apple has to worry about being copied at this point.
By this summer MS will have a 6-8 month lead having certain issued worked out and certainly having all systems preloaded with Vista. That is an uphill battle Apple can not match unless they decide to promote their product now and stop worrying about people copying their stuff.
And what about speed? On my MBP vista runs way faster than OSX... and on my core solo mini with 512MB of RAM too... Now that the hardware platform is the same, Leopard MUST prove to be faster...
This has been discussed a lot. I simply repeat what others say, ... Tiger may not be truly Intel optimized ... Leopard will be. Bottom line, you ain't seen nothin' yet
Vista is out if you haven't noticed I doubt Apple has to worry about being copied at this point.
Apple isn't worried about being copied. They're worried about trying to argue that you should pick them based on an unreleased OS, when MS can just smile and point to Vista, and say, "Unlike Leopard, Vista is shipping now."
Its a phony choice anyway, since Apple can promote themselves just fine for now based on Tiger, and how it doesn't have some of the drawbacks of Vista, such as, yep, overly-intrusive/annoying security. 8)
Quote:
By this summer MS will have a 6-8 month lead having certain issued worked out and certainly having all systems preloaded with Vista. That is an uphill battle Apple can not match unless they decide to promote their product now and stop worrying about people copying their stuff.
Nah. MS, if anything, has moved glacially slowly in getting Vista out, and no one is really betting that they'll have 'all issues worked out' in 6 months. Our own IT department doesn't plan to deploy Vista until one year and a couple of service packs have passed.
And again, its a phony choice, since Apple can compete just fine for now with Tiger. Which do you want, the copy or the original?
Quote:
The wait and see just doesn't cut it anymore.
Apple sure doesn't seem scared. Perhaps Jobs knows something you do not?
All this talk about Vista from an Apple site has gotten me curious to try Vista myself to see how good it really is. Might be time to hit CompUSA or something.
Apple isn't worried about being copied. They're worried about trying to argue that you should pick them based on an unreleased OS, when MS can just smile and point to Vista, and say, "Unlike Leopard, Vista is shipping now."
Its a phony choice anyway, since Apple can promote themselves just fine for now based on Tiger, and how it doesn't have some of the drawbacks of Vista, such as, yep, overly-intrusive/annoying security. 8)
Nah. MS, if anything, has moved glacially slowly in getting Vista out, and no one is really betting that they'll have 'all issues worked out' in 6 months. Our own IT department doesn't plan to deploy Vista until one year and a couple of service packs have passed.
And again, its a phony choice, since Apple can compete just fine for now with Tiger. Which do you want, the copy or the original?
Apple sure doesn't seem scared. Perhaps Jobs knows something you do not?
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When you start with attack ads, you're scared. When the only ads you can run is putting down the competition, you're scared.
In two decades the only market share Apple has ever dominated is the mp3 player and they are attempting to hold onto that with every breath left in them.
What I know that you don't is business and I know that making empty comments like 'just wait and see' means nothing when your asking people to put down thousands on a system. People will buy mp3 players for a few hundred thats throw away money in our society but not thousands and certainly not for an empty promise at this point.
The fact is I can tell you not only the good but the bad about Vista, you can't tell me or anyone else anything about Leopard at least not anything that you can validate.
When you start with attack ads, you're scared. When the only ads you can run is putting down the competition, you're scared.
I would dispute that they're 'attack' ads. The tone is humorous, and the contrasts they draw with Windows are real and are on issues that matter to the consumer. It isn't 'slash and burn' demagoguery, unless you're a rather sensitive Windows diehard, in which case Apple doesn't care, since they're not selling to you anyway.
Also note that Apple has been running these ads for a year plus now, during a period of increasing marketshare for them. So... what exactly are they scared of again?
I think what you're referring to is Apple being smart enough to differentiate itself from a competitor who banks on being seen as 'good enough'. That's not fear, that's intelligence and good marketing, and its been paying off.
Quote:
In two decades the only market share Apple has ever dominated is the mp3 player and they are attempting to hold onto that with every breath left in them.
If that's a back-handed away of grudgingly admitting that the iPod has been a smash-success that no one, even Microsoft, has been able to replicate, well- thank you. I'm sure the boys in Cupertino are proud. 8)
Quote:
What I know that you don't is business and I know that making empty comments like 'just wait and see' means nothing when your asking people to put down thousands on a system.
Yeah, you're the only who knows business. I work for a multibillion dollar worldwide corporation, and have for several years. I think I have business knowledge myself, thanks.
And 'wait and see' is as empty or non-empty as your predictions of future doom n' gloom are. Unless your name is Nostradamus, I humbly submit that your guesses are simply that... guesses. And only time will validate or debunk them.
Quote:
People will buy mp3 players for a few hundred thats throw away money in our society but not thousands and certainly not for an empty promise at this point.
Fortunately for Apple, they don't have to make empty promises based on future OSes to sell Macs. They can simply point to Tiger and how good it is (and how it's what Vista wants to be, and isn't quite), and sell lot of Macs anyway. Your idea that Apple is in trouble and needs to hype Leopard massively before its release midyear is simply wrong.
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The fact is I can tell you not only the good but the bad about Vista, you can't tell me or anyone else anything about Leopard at least not anything that you can validate.
Which is a great reason not to hype unreleased OSes, isn't it? Congrats on proving yourself wrong. 8)
When was the last time Steve was hands on with anything. He's the face of Apple not the concept/design engineer who's doing the work behind the curtains.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inkling
Please people, we're talking about Windows users here. Subtlety isn't their strong point.
Many of them view Gates as the greatest geek in the world, ignoring the fact that his last hands on experience with programming was over two decades ago. Notice how clueless he was about the arrival of the Internet and in his recent remarks about an 'attack a day' on Macs. If you want Windows users to grasp something, you've got to say it very clearly. Once they've switched, they'll start to understand better.
Careful. You're about to be gang-tackled by the Apple Apologista Squad?, who insist that $2500 is a reasonable minimum entry-fee for an expandable Mac desktop.
For myself, I completely agree with you on this. Even if a lot of folks don't use expandability, a lot of them LIKE the IDEA of being able to expand their box/swap cards if need be, and will buy based in part on it. And Apple, if it were smart on this, would be just as happy to sell to folks who never actually use their expandibility but buy based on it, as it does to the folks who actually use/need expandability.
I mean, what kind of company goes, "Nah, you don't really need that. I know what's best for you"... and expects to be as successful as possible with that approach?
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Apple has to be smart about the battles it chooses to fight.
Take HP for example, they currently sell 10 different consumer laptops.
Apple sells 1 consumer and 2 Professional.
Now compare the support experience...ever try to find drivers or info on their site?
Remember when Steve came back to Apple?
Apple was making printers, cameras, PDAs...
Steve paired it down to 4 products!
Apple is going after the low hanging fruit of the PC world.
People who aren't tied to Windows and are sitting on the fence.
As Apple's marketshare and sales volume increases so will it's willingness to branch out.
Seems like Apple is more interested in Vista than most PC users.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pt123
All this talk about Vista from an Apple site has gotten me curious to try Vista myself to see how good it really is. Might be time to hit CompUSA or something.
When was the last time Steve was hands on with anything. He's the face of Apple not the concept/design engineer who's doing the work behind the curtains.
You're mistaken. Jobs may not do the engineering or design, but he is extremely involved in setting the standards of usability, fit and finish on every Apple product.
Everything has to pass muster with Steve. There are any number of hair raising stories of products being more or less tossed out the window because Jobs didn't think they measured up, or products being sent back to the drawing board because Jobs didn't like the feel of a button or the placement of an icon.
Seems like Apple is more interested in Vista than most PC users.
Yeah, the lack of interest on the PC side has been startling to me. The midnight launch sales in my area were duds. Few PC users that I know seem to care much about Vista, I guess because most of the good stuff has already been seen in OS X Tiger for quite awhile now. \
What changed between now and Win95? 12 years ago, PC users were falling down with excitement over getting their Mac hand-me-downs. So why not again?
Careful. You're about to be gang-tackled by the Apple Apologista Squad?, who insist that $2500 is a reasonable minimum entry-fee for an expandable Mac desktop.
For myself, I completely agree with you on this. Even if a lot of folks don't use expandability, a lot of them LIKE the IDEA of being able to expand their box/swap cards if need be, and will buy based in part on it. And Apple, if it were smart on this, would be just as happy to sell to folks who never actually use their expandibility but buy based on it, as it does to the folks who actually use/need expandability.
I mean, what kind of company goes, "Nah, you don't really need that. I know what's best for you"... and expects to be as successful as possible with that approach?
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Why should Apple produce such a machine for the two or three people who would buy one? Get over it.
"Most people I know haven't used a mac since we used OS7 or 8 or something in elementary school and have nothing but bad memories about macs."
Now the school kids are left with nothing but bad memories about Windows PCs. Schools never have enough money and keep using computers that have long since become obsolete and slow. My wife is a sixth grade teacher in a public school. The Windows PCs barely work, are pitifully slow, printing is a VERY painful process, and nobody can read anybody else's Word documents because of different versions of Office (and nobody knows how to save documents in a format everybody can read, version-wise.) It's a complete disaster.
The ads are great. Let the hardcore Windows users be enraged. They wouldn't buy a Mac under any circumstances and the ads aren't aimed at them anyway. They're aimed at the poor slobs who labor under the Windows yoke daily, are frustrated and looking for a way out.
I would dispute that they're 'attack' ads. The tone is humorous, and the contrasts they draw with Windows are real and are on issues that matter to the consumer. It isn't 'slash and burn' demagoguery, unless you're a rather sensitive Windows diehard, in which case Apple doesn't care, since they're not selling to you anyway.
This is acutally the best debate ive had on this forum. To me an attack ad is when someone only points out their competitions weakness or faults yet offers nothing on their end, which is what Apple is doing. As an example some iMacs take 10 hours to encode a dvd through idvd, yeah thats not a bug. Lets also point out that many Mac users would like some of the advantages seen by pc users, mostly on the hardware end. I appears Apple does not want their users in general to have to ability to upgrade their own systems, there control freaks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBaggins
Also note that Apple has been running these ads for a year plus now, during a period of increasing marketshare for them. So... what exactly are they scared of again?
And they are starting to draw negative attention. I even thought they were funny at first but they haven't changed, recent polls have shown they are starting to draw negative attention to Apple
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBaggins
If that's a back-handed away of grudgingly admitting that the iPod has been a smash-success that no one, even Microsoft, has been able to replicate, well- thank you. I'm sure the boys in Cupertino are proud. 8)
I think its great that Apple has done well with the ipod, im not anit anything when it comes to competition, its always great for the end user. Its something Apple is not use too and something they will have to adjust too they can't keep selling their hardware like video card upgrads and ram way above standard market price now that they using the same hardware found in most pc's. Good example the 7600gt card in the 24" imac the upgrade price from the 7300gt is more than the card outright. That just isn't going to fly with any consumer smart enough to do their homework.
Also if Apple was so sure of their OS and how virus free it could be they would release it so all system can run their OS, they let windows users run itunes and buy ipods, how well would the ipod do if it only ran on macs? Wouldnt have the leading market share I can tell you that much.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBaggins
Yeah, you're the only who knows business. I work for a multibillion dollar worldwide corporation, and have for several years. I think I have business knowledge myself, thanks.
No im not the only one that knows good business, well maybe on this forum I am.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBaggins
And 'wait and see' is as empty or non-empty as your predictions of future doom n' gloom are. Unless your name is Nostradamus, I humbly submit that your guesses are simply that... guesses. And only time will validate or debunk them.
I never want doom and gloom as ive said before the better Apple does the more innovative MS had to become and the same on the other end. Same goes down the line when you compare Intel/AMD, Nvidia/ATi and so on. When one take a big lead on the other you and I are the only ones that suffer because we pay higher prices and get less for our money.
Id love to see Apple drop their hardware prices and take 50% of the market away from Dell, HP and others and give MS a real run but we both know thats just not going to happen.
Lets both be honest about this 6-7% of the market which is about the best Apple has been able to grab (exception ipods) just simply isnt going to change anything. All the cute ad and all the smack talking is just fluff the reality is MS, Dell, HP dont even consider Apple as anything to worry about.
When we talk about other hardware as an example the iphone, Apple was told to take a walk by Verizon the largest wireless network because even Verizon has more stroke then Apple and the only reason Cingular agreed is an attempt to take some of Verizons business which isnt going to happen.
Steve Jobs has always had one issue that has kept the company from truly being a powerhouse and that is he believe just because something has the Apple logo you should pay double. Who on Gods earth is going to pay 700.00 for a cell phone and thats how people are going to look at it no matter what anyones says.
Steve in one breath says ipods sell because they are simple to use and that no one cares about Zunes features in the next breath he wants to sell a 700.00 cell phone with more features then anything out there. Dude needs to get stable on his meds.
I would dispute that they're 'attack' ads. The tone is humorous, and the contrasts they draw with Windows are real and are on issues that matter to the consumer. It isn't 'slash and burn' demagoguery, unless you're a rather sensitive Windows diehard, in which case Apple doesn't care, since they're not selling to you anyway.
This is acutally the best debate ive had on this forum. To me an attack ad is when someone only points out their competitions weakness or faults yet offers nothing on their end, which is what Apple is doing. As an example some iMacs take 10 hours to encode a dvd through idvd, yeah thats not a bug. Lets also point out that many Mac users would like some of the advantages seen by pc users, mostly on the hardware end. I appears Apple does not want their users in general to have to ability to upgrade their own systems, there control freaks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBaggins
Also note that Apple has been running these ads for a year plus now, during a period of increasing marketshare for them. So... what exactly are they scared of again?
And they are starting to draw negative attention. I even thought they were funny at first but they haven't changed, recent polls have shown they are starting to draw negative attention to Apple
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBaggins
If that's a back-handed away of grudgingly admitting that the iPod has been a smash-success that no one, even Microsoft, has been able to replicate, well- thank you. I'm sure the boys in Cupertino are proud. 8)
I think its great that Apple has done well with the ipod, im not anit anything when it comes to competition, its always great for the end user. Its something Apple is not use too and something they will have to adjust too they can't keep selling their hardware like video card upgrads and ram way above standard market price now that they using the same hardware found in most pc's. Good example the 7600gt card in the 24" imac the upgrade price from the 7300gt is more than the card outright. That just isn't going to fly with any consumer smart enough to do their homework.
Also if Apple was so sure of their OS and how virus free it could be they would release it so all system can run their OS, they let windows users run itunes and buy ipods, how well would the ipod do if it only ran on macs? Wouldnt have the leading market share I can tell you that much.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBaggins
Yeah, you're the only who knows business. I work for a multibillion dollar worldwide corporation, and have for several years. I think I have business knowledge myself, thanks.
No im not the only one that knows good business, well maybe on this forum I am.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBaggins
And 'wait and see' is as empty or non-empty as your predictions of future doom n' gloom are. Unless your name is Nostradamus, I humbly submit that your guesses are simply that... guesses. And only time will validate or debunk them.
I never want doom and gloom as ive said before the better Apple does the more innovative MS had to become and the same on the other end. Same goes down the line when you compare Intel/AMD, Nvidia/ATi and so on. When one take a big lead on the other you and I are the only ones that suffer because we pay higher prices and get less for our money.
Id love to see Apple drop their hardware prices and take 50% of the market away from Dell, HP and others and give MS a real run but we both know thats just not going to happen.
Lets both be honest about this 6-7% of the market which is about the best Apple has been able to grab (exception ipods) just simply isnt going to change anything. All the cute ad and all the smack talking is just fluff the reality is MS, Dell, HP dont even consider Apple as anything to worry about.
When we talk about other hardware as an example the iphone, Apple was told to take a walk by Verizon the largest wireless network because even Verizon has more stroke then Apple and the only reason Cingular agreed is an attempt to take some of Verizons business which isnt going to happen.
Steve Jobs has always had one issue that has kept the company from truly being a powerhouse and that is he believe just because something has the Apple logo you should pay double. Who on Gods earth is going to pay 700.00 for a cell phone and thats how people are going to look at it no matter what anyones says.
Steve in one breath says ipods sell because they are simple to use and that no one cares about Zunes features in the next breath he wants to sell a 700.00 cell phone with more features then anything out there. Dude needs to get stable on his meds.
I'm not too keen on all the negative advertisement. It seems very childish and will drive away some customers rather than attract them. Only the Mac faithful will enjoy the Vista bashing and that's not who they need to target.
Public forums amaze me. For YEARS people have been demanding that Apple go after Windows aggressively. Now that Apple is doing just that the critics are demanding the Apple cool its jets. Amazing, simply amazing.
TI appears Apple does not want their users in general to have to ability to upgrade their own systems, there control freaks.
Indeed....I have the March '06 MBP. I'm still in the dark over getting an internal 802.11N adapter. Anyone know if I can stop holding my breath? I've been using the Belkin pre-N router for quite some time, and would like to benefit from the N at some point.....
Comments
I believe that you don't get people by alienating them. While I like the apple ads I think they should also have ads that actually show people wtf the software looks like.
People know "the mac guy" and "the pc guy" but do they know what OSX even looks like? No. Most people I know haven't used a mac since we used OS7 or 8 or something in elementary school and have nothing but bad memories about macs.
This is what I get in lectures from the hot girls I sit next to:
"Is that a mac?"
"Yeah"
"Oh I don't like those, they're hard to use"
"No it's not, it's easier if anything"
"Well I hated them in elementary school"
"It's different now"
*presses F9
"Omg that's cool!"
Then I spend the rest of the time just getting to know her and making her interested in macs.
This has happened 4 times this year, no lie.
That's retarded I shouldn't be picking up girls with computers, they should already know that the damn thing looks like.
Careful. You're about to be gang-tackled by the Apple Apologista Squad?, who insist that $2500 is a reasonable minimum entry-fee for an expandable Mac desktop.
For myself, I completely agree with you on this. Even if a lot of folks don't use expandability, a lot of them LIKE the IDEA of being able to expand their box/swap cards if need be, and will buy based in part on it. And Apple, if it were smart on this, would be just as happy to sell to folks who never actually use their expandibility but buy based on it, as it does to the folks who actually use/need expandability.
I mean, what kind of company goes, "Nah, you don't really need that. I know what's best for you"... and expects to be as successful as possible with that approach?
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100% agree.
I almost got my cousin as a switcher but he wants to be able to upgrade his vid card over the years for games. I can't even blame him for that. The crappy emachines I used to use that I donated to him can play any modern game because of it's "last gen" apg slot (there are still a few good apg cards kicking around). This computer is 4-5 years old.
While apple systems may be able to have a useable computer OS wise(at least the PPCs were), they're essentially useless game wise.
I can't even blame him, he's not hardcore or anything, if he was he'd build his own, but he likes to play pc games, which in 2-3 yrs an imac most likely won't be able to do.
He's gonna be in the market to buy a pc (he wants a desktop he said) in the fall, I'm hoping apple delivers before then.
He doesn't even like microsoft, his allegiance is to games and expandability. He'd rather put up with hating windows and have expandability then have a mac and be out in the cold.
There are many, many people who disagree with you on that. Most folks cite some combination of OS, Intel switch, iPod Halo effect, and a growing realization that Apple makes good comps. I think attributing it all to just one factor is a bit overly simplistic.
We'll see, won't we?
Uh... they can present the OS that Vista pretty much copies all-around... Tiger.
Far as Leopard goes, don't worry, I'm sure you'll be hearing all about it soon enough, aka by summer.
Well, logic and reason of a kind, I guess. But we can agree to disagree. 8)
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Vista is out if you haven't noticed I doubt Apple has to worry about being copied at this point.
By this summer MS will have a 6-8 month lead having certain issued worked out and certainly having all systems preloaded with Vista. That is an uphill battle Apple can not match unless they decide to promote their product now and stop worrying about people copying their stuff.
The wait and see just doesn't cut it anymore.
And what about speed? On my MBP vista runs way faster than OSX... and on my core solo mini with 512MB of RAM too... Now that the hardware platform is the same, Leopard MUST prove to be faster...
This has been discussed a lot. I simply repeat what others say, ... Tiger may not be truly Intel optimized ... Leopard will be. Bottom line, you ain't seen nothin' yet
Vista is out if you haven't noticed I doubt Apple has to worry about being copied at this point.
Apple isn't worried about being copied. They're worried about trying to argue that you should pick them based on an unreleased OS, when MS can just smile and point to Vista, and say, "Unlike Leopard, Vista is shipping now."
Its a phony choice anyway, since Apple can promote themselves just fine for now based on Tiger, and how it doesn't have some of the drawbacks of Vista, such as, yep, overly-intrusive/annoying security. 8)
By this summer MS will have a 6-8 month lead having certain issued worked out and certainly having all systems preloaded with Vista. That is an uphill battle Apple can not match unless they decide to promote their product now and stop worrying about people copying their stuff.
Nah. MS, if anything, has moved glacially slowly in getting Vista out, and no one is really betting that they'll have 'all issues worked out' in 6 months. Our own IT department doesn't plan to deploy Vista until one year and a couple of service packs have passed.
And again, its a phony choice, since Apple can compete just fine for now with Tiger. Which do you want, the copy or the original?
The wait and see just doesn't cut it anymore.
Apple sure doesn't seem scared. Perhaps Jobs knows something you do not?
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Apple isn't worried about being copied. They're worried about trying to argue that you should pick them based on an unreleased OS, when MS can just smile and point to Vista, and say, "Unlike Leopard, Vista is shipping now."
Its a phony choice anyway, since Apple can promote themselves just fine for now based on Tiger, and how it doesn't have some of the drawbacks of Vista, such as, yep, overly-intrusive/annoying security. 8)
Nah. MS, if anything, has moved glacially slowly in getting Vista out, and no one is really betting that they'll have 'all issues worked out' in 6 months. Our own IT department doesn't plan to deploy Vista until one year and a couple of service packs have passed.
And again, its a phony choice, since Apple can compete just fine for now with Tiger. Which do you want, the copy or the original?
Apple sure doesn't seem scared. Perhaps Jobs knows something you do not?
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When you start with attack ads, you're scared. When the only ads you can run is putting down the competition, you're scared.
In two decades the only market share Apple has ever dominated is the mp3 player and they are attempting to hold onto that with every breath left in them.
What I know that you don't is business and I know that making empty comments like 'just wait and see' means nothing when your asking people to put down thousands on a system. People will buy mp3 players for a few hundred thats throw away money in our society but not thousands and certainly not for an empty promise at this point.
The fact is I can tell you not only the good but the bad about Vista, you can't tell me or anyone else anything about Leopard at least not anything that you can validate.
When you start with attack ads, you're scared. When the only ads you can run is putting down the competition, you're scared.
I would dispute that they're 'attack' ads. The tone is humorous, and the contrasts they draw with Windows are real and are on issues that matter to the consumer. It isn't 'slash and burn' demagoguery, unless you're a rather sensitive Windows diehard, in which case Apple doesn't care, since they're not selling to you anyway.
Also note that Apple has been running these ads for a year plus now, during a period of increasing marketshare for them. So... what exactly are they scared of again?
I think what you're referring to is Apple being smart enough to differentiate itself from a competitor who banks on being seen as 'good enough'. That's not fear, that's intelligence and good marketing, and its been paying off.
In two decades the only market share Apple has ever dominated is the mp3 player and they are attempting to hold onto that with every breath left in them.
If that's a back-handed away of grudgingly admitting that the iPod has been a smash-success that no one, even Microsoft, has been able to replicate, well- thank you. I'm sure the boys in Cupertino are proud. 8)
What I know that you don't is business and I know that making empty comments like 'just wait and see' means nothing when your asking people to put down thousands on a system.
Yeah, you're the only who knows business.
And 'wait and see' is as empty or non-empty as your predictions of future doom n' gloom are. Unless your name is Nostradamus, I humbly submit that your guesses are simply that... guesses. And only time will validate or debunk them.
People will buy mp3 players for a few hundred thats throw away money in our society but not thousands and certainly not for an empty promise at this point.
Fortunately for Apple, they don't have to make empty promises based on future OSes to sell Macs. They can simply point to Tiger and how good it is (and how it's what Vista wants to be, and isn't quite), and sell lot of Macs anyway. Your idea that Apple is in trouble and needs to hype Leopard massively before its release midyear is simply wrong.
The fact is I can tell you not only the good but the bad about Vista, you can't tell me or anyone else anything about Leopard at least not anything that you can validate.
Which is a great reason not to hype unreleased OSes, isn't it? Congrats on proving yourself wrong. 8)
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Please people, we're talking about Windows users here. Subtlety isn't their strong point.
Many of them view Gates as the greatest geek in the world, ignoring the fact that his last hands on experience with programming was over two decades ago. Notice how clueless he was about the arrival of the Internet and in his recent remarks about an 'attack a day' on Macs. If you want Windows users to grasp something, you've got to say it very clearly. Once they've switched, they'll start to understand better.
Careful. You're about to be gang-tackled by the Apple Apologista Squad?, who insist that $2500 is a reasonable minimum entry-fee for an expandable Mac desktop.
For myself, I completely agree with you on this. Even if a lot of folks don't use expandability, a lot of them LIKE the IDEA of being able to expand their box/swap cards if need be, and will buy based in part on it. And Apple, if it were smart on this, would be just as happy to sell to folks who never actually use their expandibility but buy based on it, as it does to the folks who actually use/need expandability.
I mean, what kind of company goes, "Nah, you don't really need that. I know what's best for you"... and expects to be as successful as possible with that approach?
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Apple has to be smart about the battles it chooses to fight.
Take HP for example, they currently sell 10 different consumer laptops.
Apple sells 1 consumer and 2 Professional.
Now compare the support experience...ever try to find drivers or info on their site?
Remember when Steve came back to Apple?
Apple was making printers, cameras, PDAs...
Steve paired it down to 4 products!
Apple is going after the low hanging fruit of the PC world.
People who aren't tied to Windows and are sitting on the fence.
As Apple's marketshare and sales volume increases so will it's willingness to branch out.
All this talk about Vista from an Apple site has gotten me curious to try Vista myself to see how good it really is. Might be time to hit CompUSA or something.
When was the last time Steve was hands on with anything. He's the face of Apple not the concept/design engineer who's doing the work behind the curtains.
You're mistaken. Jobs may not do the engineering or design, but he is extremely involved in setting the standards of usability, fit and finish on every Apple product.
Everything has to pass muster with Steve. There are any number of hair raising stories of products being more or less tossed out the window because Jobs didn't think they measured up, or products being sent back to the drawing board because Jobs didn't like the feel of a button or the placement of an icon.
Seems like Apple is more interested in Vista than most PC users.
Yeah, the lack of interest on the PC side has been startling to me. The midnight launch sales in my area were duds. Few PC users that I know seem to care much about Vista, I guess because most of the good stuff has already been seen in OS X Tiger for quite awhile now.
What changed between now and Win95? 12 years ago, PC users were falling down with excitement over getting their Mac hand-me-downs. So why not again?
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Careful. You're about to be gang-tackled by the Apple Apologista Squad?, who insist that $2500 is a reasonable minimum entry-fee for an expandable Mac desktop.
For myself, I completely agree with you on this. Even if a lot of folks don't use expandability, a lot of them LIKE the IDEA of being able to expand their box/swap cards if need be, and will buy based in part on it. And Apple, if it were smart on this, would be just as happy to sell to folks who never actually use their expandibility but buy based on it, as it does to the folks who actually use/need expandability.
I mean, what kind of company goes, "Nah, you don't really need that. I know what's best for you"... and expects to be as successful as possible with that approach?
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Why should Apple produce such a machine for the two or three people who would buy one? Get over it.
Why should Apple produce such a machine for the two or three people who would buy one? Get over it.
'Two or three people'?? Lordy. The denial runs deep.
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Now the school kids are left with nothing but bad memories about Windows PCs. Schools never have enough money and keep using computers that have long since become obsolete and slow. My wife is a sixth grade teacher in a public school. The Windows PCs barely work, are pitifully slow, printing is a VERY painful process, and nobody can read anybody else's Word documents because of different versions of Office (and nobody knows how to save documents in a format everybody can read, version-wise.) It's a complete disaster.
The ads are great. Let the hardcore Windows users be enraged. They wouldn't buy a Mac under any circumstances and the ads aren't aimed at them anyway. They're aimed at the poor slobs who labor under the Windows yoke daily, are frustrated and looking for a way out.
I would dispute that they're 'attack' ads. The tone is humorous, and the contrasts they draw with Windows are real and are on issues that matter to the consumer. It isn't 'slash and burn' demagoguery, unless you're a rather sensitive Windows diehard, in which case Apple doesn't care, since they're not selling to you anyway.
This is acutally the best debate ive had on this forum. To me an attack ad is when someone only points out their competitions weakness or faults yet offers nothing on their end, which is what Apple is doing. As an example some iMacs take 10 hours to encode a dvd through idvd, yeah thats not a bug. Lets also point out that many Mac users would like some of the advantages seen by pc users, mostly on the hardware end. I appears Apple does not want their users in general to have to ability to upgrade their own systems, there control freaks.
Also note that Apple has been running these ads for a year plus now, during a period of increasing marketshare for them. So... what exactly are they scared of again?
And they are starting to draw negative attention. I even thought they were funny at first but they haven't changed, recent polls have shown they are starting to draw negative attention to Apple
If that's a back-handed away of grudgingly admitting that the iPod has been a smash-success that no one, even Microsoft, has been able to replicate, well- thank you. I'm sure the boys in Cupertino are proud. 8)
I think its great that Apple has done well with the ipod, im not anit anything when it comes to competition, its always great for the end user. Its something Apple is not use too and something they will have to adjust too they can't keep selling their hardware like video card upgrads and ram way above standard market price now that they using the same hardware found in most pc's. Good example the 7600gt card in the 24" imac the upgrade price from the 7300gt is more than the card outright. That just isn't going to fly with any consumer smart enough to do their homework.
Also if Apple was so sure of their OS and how virus free it could be they would release it so all system can run their OS, they let windows users run itunes and buy ipods, how well would the ipod do if it only ran on macs? Wouldnt have the leading market share I can tell you that much.
Yeah, you're the only who knows business.
No im not the only one that knows good business, well maybe on this forum I am.
And 'wait and see' is as empty or non-empty as your predictions of future doom n' gloom are. Unless your name is Nostradamus, I humbly submit that your guesses are simply that... guesses. And only time will validate or debunk them.
I never want doom and gloom as ive said before the better Apple does the more innovative MS had to become and the same on the other end. Same goes down the line when you compare Intel/AMD, Nvidia/ATi and so on. When one take a big lead on the other you and I are the only ones that suffer because we pay higher prices and get less for our money.
Id love to see Apple drop their hardware prices and take 50% of the market away from Dell, HP and others and give MS a real run but we both know thats just not going to happen.
Lets both be honest about this 6-7% of the market which is about the best Apple has been able to grab (exception ipods) just simply isnt going to change anything. All the cute ad and all the smack talking is just fluff the reality is MS, Dell, HP dont even consider Apple as anything to worry about.
When we talk about other hardware as an example the iphone, Apple was told to take a walk by Verizon the largest wireless network because even Verizon has more stroke then Apple and the only reason Cingular agreed is an attempt to take some of Verizons business which isnt going to happen.
Steve Jobs has always had one issue that has kept the company from truly being a powerhouse and that is he believe just because something has the Apple logo you should pay double. Who on Gods earth is going to pay 700.00 for a cell phone and thats how people are going to look at it no matter what anyones says.
Steve in one breath says ipods sell because they are simple to use and that no one cares about Zunes features in the next breath he wants to sell a 700.00 cell phone with more features then anything out there. Dude needs to get stable on his meds.
I would dispute that they're 'attack' ads. The tone is humorous, and the contrasts they draw with Windows are real and are on issues that matter to the consumer. It isn't 'slash and burn' demagoguery, unless you're a rather sensitive Windows diehard, in which case Apple doesn't care, since they're not selling to you anyway.
This is acutally the best debate ive had on this forum. To me an attack ad is when someone only points out their competitions weakness or faults yet offers nothing on their end, which is what Apple is doing. As an example some iMacs take 10 hours to encode a dvd through idvd, yeah thats not a bug. Lets also point out that many Mac users would like some of the advantages seen by pc users, mostly on the hardware end. I appears Apple does not want their users in general to have to ability to upgrade their own systems, there control freaks.
Also note that Apple has been running these ads for a year plus now, during a period of increasing marketshare for them. So... what exactly are they scared of again?
And they are starting to draw negative attention. I even thought they were funny at first but they haven't changed, recent polls have shown they are starting to draw negative attention to Apple
If that's a back-handed away of grudgingly admitting that the iPod has been a smash-success that no one, even Microsoft, has been able to replicate, well- thank you. I'm sure the boys in Cupertino are proud. 8)
I think its great that Apple has done well with the ipod, im not anit anything when it comes to competition, its always great for the end user. Its something Apple is not use too and something they will have to adjust too they can't keep selling their hardware like video card upgrads and ram way above standard market price now that they using the same hardware found in most pc's. Good example the 7600gt card in the 24" imac the upgrade price from the 7300gt is more than the card outright. That just isn't going to fly with any consumer smart enough to do their homework.
Also if Apple was so sure of their OS and how virus free it could be they would release it so all system can run their OS, they let windows users run itunes and buy ipods, how well would the ipod do if it only ran on macs? Wouldnt have the leading market share I can tell you that much.
Yeah, you're the only who knows business.
No im not the only one that knows good business, well maybe on this forum I am.
And 'wait and see' is as empty or non-empty as your predictions of future doom n' gloom are. Unless your name is Nostradamus, I humbly submit that your guesses are simply that... guesses. And only time will validate or debunk them.
I never want doom and gloom as ive said before the better Apple does the more innovative MS had to become and the same on the other end. Same goes down the line when you compare Intel/AMD, Nvidia/ATi and so on. When one take a big lead on the other you and I are the only ones that suffer because we pay higher prices and get less for our money.
Id love to see Apple drop their hardware prices and take 50% of the market away from Dell, HP and others and give MS a real run but we both know thats just not going to happen.
Lets both be honest about this 6-7% of the market which is about the best Apple has been able to grab (exception ipods) just simply isnt going to change anything. All the cute ad and all the smack talking is just fluff the reality is MS, Dell, HP dont even consider Apple as anything to worry about.
When we talk about other hardware as an example the iphone, Apple was told to take a walk by Verizon the largest wireless network because even Verizon has more stroke then Apple and the only reason Cingular agreed is an attempt to take some of Verizons business which isnt going to happen.
Steve Jobs has always had one issue that has kept the company from truly being a powerhouse and that is he believe just because something has the Apple logo you should pay double. Who on Gods earth is going to pay 700.00 for a cell phone and thats how people are going to look at it no matter what anyones says.
Steve in one breath says ipods sell because they are simple to use and that no one cares about Zunes features in the next breath he wants to sell a 700.00 cell phone with more features then anything out there. Dude needs to get stable on his meds.
I'm not too keen on all the negative advertisement. It seems very childish and will drive away some customers rather than attract them. Only the Mac faithful will enjoy the Vista bashing and that's not who they need to target.
Public forums amaze me. For YEARS people have been demanding that Apple go after Windows aggressively. Now that Apple is doing just that the critics are demanding the Apple cool its jets. Amazing, simply amazing.
TI appears Apple does not want their users in general to have to ability to upgrade their own systems, there control freaks.
Indeed....I have the March '06 MBP. I'm still in the dark over getting an internal 802.11N adapter. Anyone know if I can stop holding my breath? I've been using the Belkin pre-N router for quite some time, and would like to benefit from the N at some point.....