Pundits take sides in DRM battle as responses to Jobs fly

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 70
    Seems to me that Steve is up to something. Why all of a sudden he's crying for the removal of DRM. I don't see why people hate DRM. People have to remember that DRM was a effect of people downloading millions of songs for free...yeah it sill happens but it was a starting point. Sooner or later CDs you buy at best buy will have some sort of DRM on it. They just need to adpot 1 DRM standard so that all music will play on any player.
  • Reply 22 of 70
    kickahakickaha Posts: 8,760member
    *pulls up chair*

    *grabs popcorn*
  • Reply 23 of 70
    Can anyone point me to a research study done in the last year that evaluates:
    • The impact of online stores and P2P networks individually on traditional CD sales.

    • The impact that DRM on tracks from online stores has had on piracy.

    • The decline or increase of music files transferred illegally over P2P networks.

    • The decline or increase of all music sales and the portion thereof attributed to traditional media, legal downloads, and illegal downloads since iTS's inception.

    This is just an opinion, but I don't think anyone has proven or can prove that DRM has been effective. I have nothing to back it up other than what I believe to be common sense, something that seems to escape the management at the big 4 and the RIAA, but I think:
    • Most listeners who stole music via P2P networks over the last few years, still steal music via P2P networks today. Unless they are actually afraid of being sued by the RIAA, how would you convince them that paid is better than free? I'd bet most aren't concerned much about the RIAA and stealing is no more an issue of conscience for them today than it was 3 years ago.

    • Most listeners who buy their music through legal downloads do so because they like the convenience of being able to preview every track and have instant, at home, gratification, not because they've been presented with such a fabulous online shopping experience that they've decided to "go legal."

    • Traditional media sales have declined, in part, as a result of an increase in both legal and illegal downloads.

    • Traditional media sales have declined, also in part, as a result of the perceived lack of value associated with the inflated cost of traditional media.

    • Traditional media sales have also suffered as a result of the listeners inability to purchase songs a la carte foregoing the per-song expense, which is greater for traditional media, imposed for songs they don't like.

    • Online media sales has suffered due to DRM. Many users don't want to deal with DRM or the loss of quality typically associated with the "legal" methods of removing it.

    If I carry my CDs to work with me, I don't have to authorize my Mac, PC, or the standalone CD/clock radio on my desk to play a CD. I think it's ridiculous that I have to authorize the computer to which the speakers are attached so that I can listen to my music from my iPod out loud with an interface that gives me easier control over what is played using a larger display, more sorting options, and increased selection flexibility. In addition, there are so many flaws with the authorize/deauthorize process and the things that can go wrong that I just refuse to get involved. I burn and re-rip and I'm perfectly happy with the quality. I'm sure it is not as good, but it was cheaper, and honestly, I can't discern enough of a difference to fret over it. I have backups of the original DRMed files so that I can go back to them if the DRM nightmare ever ends (I'm assuming we'll be given a method to strip DRM from existing files).



    It's just too easy to rip or otherwise convert DRMed music files to obtain DRM-free files to ever think that DRM will be effective. Besides, dishonest (and many honest) people will always find a way around it. If people want to pirate music they will find a way to do it. If I were making copies of an album to sell, I could just buy and rip one original. I don't need downloads to do that, so I don't see the point to DRM. It just seems absolutely useless.
  • Reply 24 of 70
    I wonder how adding songs to the iPhone would count towards you user agreement. I also wonder if this is the reason why SJ is now up in a huff over DRM.
  • Reply 25 of 70
    sdw2001sdw2001 Posts: 17,062member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by groverat View Post


    I don't know why the big labels don't at least try it out and see what happens.



    Myopic freaks.



    Well, you know me...not exactly a hippie rebel. But one thing makes me want to take to the streets and scream"Fight the Power" more than anything else, and that's the goddamned RIAA and the recording industry in general. They are heartless, dickless, visionless, short sighted pieces of monkey shit if I've ever seen one.



    Event: The labels own the world from 1920-1999.



    Industry: "Doo wop shoo bop!" Whop badda do wap, a bop bam BOOM!" CDS are

    so awesome! We're really, really, REALLY rich!





    Event: Napster is created in 1999.



    RIAA: "Snore...huh....uh...What's Napster?...is that like Tickle Me Elmo?"





    Event: Napster and P2P use explodes



    RIAA: "Hmmm This doesn't seem good. "Hey, maybe we should sue. Yep..that's

    the ticket!" "Also, let's not offer any alternative. Suing will work. Always does!"





    Event: iTunes Store opens, massively successful.



    RIAA: <yawn>





    Event: iTunes becomes even more successful. Contracts come up for renewal.



    RIAA: "WE WANT VARIABLE PRICED DOWLOADS! Apple is a monopoly!"





    Event: Jobs gives them the finger.



    RIAA: <Sniffle> "That wasn't nice."





    Event: Piracy decreases because there is a reasonable alternative. Not due to DRM.



    RIAA: "Hey, you guys think we should get T bone steaks for lunch? Bill? Ron?" <yawn>





    Event: Jobs calls for DRM to end



    RIAA: "WHHHHAAAT? Apple is monopoly! Most iPods have 90% pirated music! Where's

    my T bone? Seriously guys, it's been like an hour. Oh, and call Wal-Mart. They're

    running low on that new K-Fed CD. Man, I love CDs. Stupid Apple."









    DRM needs to end. Give people a good alternative to stealing music and they'll embrace it. That's already been proven. The RIAA can still go after P2P networks..nothing will change there. I swear, watching this is almost comical. With each event the labels prove they have their heads up their asses. They have no idea where their industry is going and haven't since Michael Jackson had a real nose.
  • Reply 26 of 70
    Well, let's not stop at the Music Labels, because we all know it's wrong for them to try and protect their profits.



    OPEN UP OSX FOR IT TO WORK ON ALL PC'S. If all DL'd music should be able to play on any player, then all OS's should be able to work on any PC (meeting spec requirements of course)



    LET THE REVOLUTION BEGIN.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post


    Well, you know me...not exactly a hippie rebel. But one thing makes me want to take to the streets and scream"Fight the Power" more than anything else, and that's the goddamned RIAA and the recording industry in general. They are heartless, dickless, visionless, short sighted pieces of moneky shit if I've ever seen one.



    Event: The labels own the world from 1920-1999.



    Industry: "Doo wop shoo bop!" Whop badda do wap, a bop bam BOOM!" CDS are

    so awesome! We're really, really, REALLY rich!





    Event: Napster is created in 1999.



    RIAA: "Snore...huh....uh...What's Napster?...is that like Tickle Me Elmo?"





    Event: Napster and P2P use explodes



    RIAA: "Hmmm This doesn't seem good. "Hey, maybe we should sue. Yep..that's

    the ticket!" "Also, let's not offer any alternative. Suing will work. Always does!"





    Event: iTunes Store opens, massively successful.



    RIAA: <yawn>





    Event: iTunes becomes even more successful. Contracts come up for renewal.



    RIAA: "WE WANT VARIABLE PRICED DOWLOADS! Apple is a monopoly!"





    Event: Jobs gives them the finger.



    RIAA: <Sniffle> "That wasn't nice."





    Event: Piracy decreases because there is a reasonable alternative. Not due to DRM.



    RIAA: "Hey, you guys think we should get T bone steaks for lunch? Bill? Ron?" <yawn>





    Event: Jobs calls for DRM to end



    RIAA: "WHHHHAAAT? Apple is monopoly! Most iPods have 90% pirated music! Where's

    my T bone? Seriously guys, it's been like an hour. Oh, and call Wal-Mart. They're

    running low on that new K-Fed CD. Man, I love CDs. Stupid Apple."









    DRM needs to end. Give people a good alternative to stealing music and they'll embrace it. That's already been proven. The RIAA can still go after P2P networks..nothing will change there. I swear, watching this is almost comical. With each event the labels prove they have their heads up their asses. They have no idea where their industry is going and haven't since Michael Jacskon had a real nose.



  • Reply 27 of 70
    tundraboytundraboy Posts: 1,624member
    There are two issues going on here with the Norwegians. One is licensing Fairplay, the second one, which is probably Apple would never ever want to do is to open up iTunes for direct connection to non-iPod players.



    iTunes is one of the biggest advantages iPod has over its competitors. It's half of the user-friendly experience that makes the iPod so attractive. It sounds like the Norwegians want any old MP3 player to be able to interact with iTunes just like an iPod. And it's no surprise that Apple vehemently opposes this. The Norwegians are asking Apple to hand over their competitive advantage to its rivals. Apple invested money and time to develop this great content and device management service for iPod owners and now they should let other players benefit from it? This is like Coke being told to hand over its recipe to Pepsi.



    I must say the Norwegians are out of whack on this. No company is under any obligation to share its lawful competitive advantages with the competition.
  • Reply 28 of 70
    sdw2001sdw2001 Posts: 17,062member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tundraboy View Post


    There are two issues going on here with the Norwegians. One is licensing Fairplay, the second one, which is probably Apple would never ever want to do is to open up iTunes for direct connection to non-iPod players.



    iTunes is one of the biggest advantages iPod has over its competitors. It's half of the user-friendly experience that makes the iPod so attractive. It sounds like the Norwegians want any old MP3 player to be able to interact with iTunes just like an iPod. And it's no surprise that Apple vehemently opposes this. The Norwegians are asking Apple to hand over their competitive advantage to its rivals. Apple invested money and time to develop this great content and device management service for iPod owners and now they should let other players benefit from it? This is like Coke being told to hand over its recipe to Pepsi.



    I must say the Norwegians are out of whack on this. No company is under any obligation to share its lawful competitive advantages with the competition.



    Uh, according to Jobs, Apple is willing to open it up...completely. That's the entire point.
  • Reply 29 of 70
    I hate how the music industry makes it look like they have a choice. If they pull their music from iTunes, people will go back to stealing it. Get rid of the DRM and they mite sell MORE songs, because now zune/zen/ and who ever else can use iTunes super easy layout. This could make loads of money.
  • Reply 30 of 70
    cosmonutcosmonut Posts: 4,872member
    I just don't see how the RIAA can justify my ability to rip a CD and do WHATEVER I want with it (including share it illegally) while also offering music downloads at poorer quality with limitations on how I can use it.



    Either all CDs need to get DRM or all digital downloads need to lose DRM.



    Apple's not concerned about iTunes/iPod in all this because you can still only load songs on an iPod with iTunes. If that remains the case (which it should) then iPod users will need to get their music into iTunes somehow. Instead of using some other download site and moving the files over, the user will just click on the "iTunes Store" icon and buy stuff from there.



    I agree with some others here that Steve Jobs must be up to something. There must be a reason why it released that letter now.
  • Reply 31 of 70
    Hey Steve Jobs and Apple,



    First negotiate a deal with labels and leverage licensing of DRM technology for Apple dropping DRM legal responsibility but have software acknowledge DRM and work as it does now variably. Then...



    Sell Licenses of DRM to the labels without warrantee for their use and if they want programming changes, charge for it. They can put it on anything they want and they have to police it themselves.



    Apple makes money on the licensing + programming and saves money everywhere else. $$



    Hey, make some doe in this instead of the headache it is now...
  • Reply 32 of 70
    I remember back in the day you would buy a CD, bring it home, listen to it a couple times, stick it in your brand new 52x CD-ROM drive (state of the art ) rip it to your computer, [Repeat previous process a few times], take your favorite songs and burn them to a CD, give them to your friends and let them enjoy them.



    And of course the friends would put it onto their computer and rip it to the computer, take their own songs and some of yours, burn it to a CD and give it to that cute girl in Biology.



    Repeat. There is always a way to share the music. Its just the music companies that are calling it illegal. I applaud Steve Jobs for spearheading this issue.



    And hell, I sell iPods at circuit city and a lot of people I tell about the iTunes Store, there are an alarming amount of people who actually don't want to buy stuff off iTS, and would in fact rather have a CD.



    The people who these DRM are protecting the companies against are the teens and college students. You won't see many 40 year old men trying to download free music. And when it comes to these teens, you want to let them have at least a bit of free music. In order to make money in the music industry you have to have your name out there, and if no one knows about you because they have better things to spend their 14 dollars on (10 on iTS ) then how are they going to know about you? From what I've heard, musicians make more money going on tours and selling out the halls.



    Radio plays free music. But its okay because they are really just advertisments for the band to purchase their music. Why can't DRM services allow this without making it illegal?



    And for the record, I have a 60 GB iPod Video, and I haven't downloaded, purchased, or even listened to a song for about 9 months now. Maybe something like the DRMRevolution could bring back users from long ago that have been neglecting their iPod Librarys.



    Music is a powerful thing. Viva la DRMR.
  • Reply 33 of 70
    sdw2001sdw2001 Posts: 17,062member
    Quote:

    I remember back in the day....



    What, like in 2002?



    OMG. I am old.
  • Reply 34 of 70
    Let's face it. The music industry model failed. Now only live performing bands can make money in music unless you are a publisher.



    New industry slogan should be: "We'll make it free if it's an MP3"
  • Reply 35 of 70
    tundraboytundraboy Posts: 1,624member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post


    Uh, according to Jobs, Apple is willing to open it up...completely. That's the entire point.



    Upon further review, you're probably right.
  • Reply 36 of 70
    auxioauxio Posts: 2,016member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post


    What, like in 2002?



    OMG. I am old.



    haha, yeah. I remember back in the day you'd buy a vinyl record and record it to tape, then use "high-speed dubbing" (like a 2X tape drive) to make crappy copies for all your friends.



    I definitely feel dated now...



    "No you're analog!"
  • Reply 37 of 70
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by iPeon View Post


    And spend the next hour re-inputing the tags back into each and every song, unless of course you don't mind seeing only track numbers in your library and not being able to find the song you are looking for.



    I wrote a little bash script that builds a tagging script based on the names in iTunes that automatically tags them after I re-import them (or more accurately, after I import full .aiff format and re-encode with a command line utility.) Manual labor? Pssshh, I have the shell!
  • Reply 38 of 70
    gordygordy Posts: 978member
    Who would pay more for a DRM-less song on iTunes? Say, $2.50? The labels won't budge unless they can get more money.
  • Reply 39 of 70
    Yeah it was like 1999. I'm 18, remember? :P



    Youngun! Rispeck yur oldurs!
  • Reply 40 of 70
    The Electronic Frontier Foundation has nothing to lose, and their statement about stripping the DRM immediately shows their complete lack of business sense. Idiots.
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