Blu-ray vs. HD DVD (2007)

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  • Reply 901 of 4650
    hmurchisonhmurchison Posts: 12,278member
    Snoopy I'm cool with that.



    The PS3 is a great choice..they just need more kickarse games but in the meantime you get some really good movies to watch.



    I'll likely own a PS3 someday but I try to be careful about the game consoles because you can lose time on those things like Aaron Stampler.
  • Reply 902 of 4650
    jlljll Posts: 2,709member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post


    Buying an HD DVD player is a choice to play movies.



    But buying laptop with a HD DVD drive is not!
  • Reply 903 of 4650
    e1618978e1618978 Posts: 6,075member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post


    What's it going to take to get you to buy a HD DVD player?



    Personally, I know that my price is lower than $199, because I didn't buy the HD-DVD add on for my xbox360. I think that any money spent on HD-DVD is money flushed down the toilet.
  • Reply 904 of 4650
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post


    I'll likely own a PS3 someday



    well then... argument won. no need for further comment really
  • Reply 905 of 4650
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by snoopy View Post


    I'm almost ashamed to admit it, but our family used a PS2 to play DVDs for three, maybe four, years.





    i remember last years thread.. some people would have LAUGHED at you for saying such a thing..



    but i did that too... ok i might have gotten a stand alone DVD player a tad sooner.. but the PS2 STILL plays DVDs in fact with a nifty bit of software its my Region 1 player (im in Region 2)



    but SOME people seem to think that doing similar with the PS3 is just SOOOO far from the realms of sanity as to be impossible...



    but hey, everyone has their own way of going mad
  • Reply 906 of 4650
    hmurchisonhmurchison Posts: 12,278member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post


    Personally, I know that my price is lower than $199, because I didn't buy the HD-DVD add on for my xbox360. I think that any money spent on HD-DVD is money flushed down the toilet.



    I know every one of my HD DVD discs will play regardless of how the format war end up. I'll never have to buy the movies again. You can "still" get a Laserdisc player from Pioneer after decades of LD being dead.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Trendannoyer


    well then... argument won. no need for further comment really



    I'm not sure you can really quantify this as "won" or "lost" . I'm a movie fan and of course my ideal is to have access to all movies. I don't think the avg consumer though agrees with me and thus I'm fighting so that they have content on the platform that is in their best interests as consumers. That's HD DVD.
  • Reply 907 of 4650
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Trendannoyer View Post


    i remember last years thread.. some people would have LAUGHED at you for saying such a thing..



    but i did that too... ok i might have gotten a stand alone DVD player a tad sooner.. but the PS2 STILL plays DVDs in fact with a nifty bit of software its my Region 1 player (im in Region 2)



    but SOME people seem to think that doing similar with the PS3 is just SOOOO far from the realms of sanity as to be impossible...



    but hey, everyone has their own way of going mad



    When I got my PS2 (about a year after it came out), my dad got a stand alone DVD player (which ran around $500 at the time).



    My PS2 bested it in every way accept features—the controls were easier, the picture quality was better, the PS2 had a great sharpen feature.



    It has had problems with one DVD, but it was anime, what do you expect.
  • Reply 908 of 4650
    In my continued quest to try and bring some realism into this thread here are some thoughts.



    The PS3 detractors seem to want it both ways. They claim that people who buy the PS3 do it for a game machine, yet in the next breath claim there are no good games available for it. From my readings on AVSforum and elsewhere it seems that the PS3 is the Blu-ray player of choice, both for its price point and because it plays discs as well as stand alone players costing twice as much. Even people who buy it solely as a game player report that they've tried a B-R disc and have become hooked. IMO, at least 67% of PS3s being sold are being used as a B-R player, and that figure might very well be way too conservative.



    Blue-ray seems to ahead now and gaining momentum, but it's way to early to declare victory, as there's no telling how much money some companies are prepared to loose pursuing their dream of achieving their own standard. We might have a better idea of where things are going at the end of 4Q this year. One thing I can guarantee, a HD format will never gain consumer acceptance and gain the critical mass necessary to take it beyond a niche product as long as this silly format war continues.



    Someone asked what would be a price-point be to buy into HD-DVD. In my case it would be $0, only if someone gave me a player. Murch pointed out that even if HD-DVD failed as a format, he could always play his old discs. The key here is old, there wouldn't be any new titles. And do you think Blockbuster or Netflix will be very interested in continuing to carry a failed format?



    Personally, unless things change quickly, I don't see where HD-DVD has the studio support to make it. But, who knows.
  • Reply 909 of 4650
    bitemymacbitemymac Posts: 1,147member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post




    I'm not sure you can really quantify this as "won" or "lost" . I'm a movie fan and of course my ideal is to have access to all movies. I don't think the avg consumer though agrees with me and thus I'm fighting so that they have content on the platform that is in their best interests as consumers. That's HD DVD.



    Many people on this board would not agree with you, because they see this format war as it is in politics. Most republicans voted for Bush because Bush was representing republican party, but not because he was the right person for the job, in my opinion of course. So, we would see the same behavior with BD supporters.



    I however do agree with you because I do enjoy movies and do care about having the best format for the consumers in the end. I may be forced to add a BD player in the future, but I'm trying to fight this urge every time I'm in a electronic store. Most pixar/disney movies looks great even on SD upcoverted on my HD-DVD player... along with Pirates or any other BD exclusives..... I think I can hold off the urge little longer for now.



    All in all, HD/BD total movie sales isn't big enough yet to be considered as competing format to SD DVD, and this to me is a bigger worry than the HD vs. BD. I'm hoping Hi-Def formats would become little more affordable in the hardware pricing by the ear end. I would prefer to have HD-DVD to win, but if that doesn't happen, I'd rather have BD than no Hi-Def formats at all. Maybe, new toshiba's 5 free HD-DVD program with a purchase of $380 HD-DVD player can bring in more people into the format. Actually, even the BD/PS3 supporters are even taking the bait, since they do need a good upconverting players for their SD DVD collections.
  • Reply 910 of 4650
    kolchakkolchak Posts: 1,398member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post


    I know every one of my HD DVD discs will play regardless of how the format war end up. I'll never have to buy the movies again. You can "still" get a Laserdisc player from Pioneer after decades of LD being dead.



    Hogwash. "Decades of being dead." LD wasn't "dead" until the mid to late '90s, after DVDs took off. And I, for one, wasn't stupid enough to buy into it until it had proven it wasn't a flash in the pan format. When I started buying LDs in the late '80s, the LD/CED format war was long over and the format was doing quite well, thank you very much. It had lots of advantages over VHS such as much sharper picture, no wear on playback, no rewinding, random chapter access, extras, and pretty much every major movie being available in a letterboxed widescreen edition. A better question would be can you still buy Divx players after years of Divx being dead? Can you still buy a new Betamax after two decades of Beta being dead?



    Does anyone else think Murch has Multiple Personality Disorder? In one message, he writes "The PS3 is a great choice." Yet on this very page in message 891, he wrote " The PS3 is now 3rd and dwindling in console sales because Sony forced you fools to eat the extra costs of a Blu-ray player when it wasn't needed." So only fools make great choices, I guess. But that's par for the course for Murch. He swings wildly from "I really don't care who wins and I'll buy Blu-ray eventually" to spending paragraphs doing nothing but bash Blu-ray. Maybe not MPD. Maybe just bipolar.



    I know I shouldn't answer such a stupid question, but just like e1618978, to me, buying an HD DVD player is not in the cards for any amount of money. Why? There's no movie I desperately need on HD DVD and they'll be released on Blu-ray soon after Toshiba throws in the towel. Why would I want to spend even $50 on a piece of equipment that'll do nothing but take up more space in my media room and eventually end up a doorstop?
  • Reply 911 of 4650
    sdw2001sdw2001 Posts: 17,062member
    Quote:

    Buying an HD DVD player is a choice to play movies. That means a %100 attachrate.



    You just won't let this go. It seems to be the sole basis of your "argument." The fact is that attach rates aside, Blu-Ray is outseling HD-DVD. That is all that matters right now. Now, maybe the attach rate will eventually translate into higher HD-DVD sales, and maybe it won't. What we know right now is Blu-Ray is winning and it's lead is widening.
  • Reply 912 of 4650
    bitemymacbitemymac Posts: 1,147member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post


    You just won't let this go. It seems to be the sole basis of your "argument." The fact is that attach rates aside, Blu-Ray is outseling HD-DVD. That is all that matters right now. Now, maybe the attach rate will eventually translate into higher HD-DVD sales, and maybe it won't. What we know right now is Blu-Ray is winning and it's lead is widening.



    Yup, for now. BD exclusive supporting studios choose early time to push out all the movies on BD. However, HD-DVD studios seems to be taking a break from last year. Even Warner and Paramount is slow on both HD & BD releases just like most SD-DVD movie releases have had been slow around time of the year. However, Fox, Disney, and Sony seems to be having a make up session for what was missing from last year and dumping all of them on the first half of the year. Would this last throughout the end of 2007?... probably not ....



    As I said before, even with all the BD exclusive studios dumping all the movies at once still yet to make an impact to compete with SD DVD sales. This is the sad truth and it's too early in the game to claim whether either of the Hi-Def or even both Hi-Def formats together can compete with SD-DVD's.
  • Reply 913 of 4650
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post


    I don't think the avg consumer though agrees with me



    yeah, and guess who there are more of...





    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post


    and thus I'm fighting so that they have content on the platform that is in their best interests as consumers. That's HD DVD.



    so in your opinion the BEST format for the consumer is one that has less films being released on it....way to go niche guy...



    nothing what so ever to do with the fact that you have already bought into the format?





    I care about films too, i have a TON of DVDs. pretty much all i can "DO" at the moment is my daily "pityful" rehab training to try and get my stamina back up to something vaguely approaching normal (dont do chemo unless you have to ) and then sit and watch movies...



    ..maybe im broken, but the STORY is more importnat than the image in my opinion AT THE MOMENT.



    so, there are very few movies i WANT in HD but i HAVE been holding off buying a few select titles until i can get my hands on a PS3 given that i bought DVDs in the early days for £25 (50$) and dont wish to get stung again, i will be holding off until the prices come down.. much like the other normal consumers... so to be honest, i thought this would be a long drawn out battle and it would take till the middle of the year, before BD started to show inroads in outselling HD-DVD, but its pretty amazing that the figures are on the turn in FEB!



    attachrates?



    ok, but if you have 6 million players in homes... or 2 million and the film you release has a potential market of 50,000 sales ONLY OF COURSE the attach rate to the format with the large penetration is going to look smaller!



    why dont you talk up the market penetration of PLAYERS?



    maybe because BD is higher?
  • Reply 914 of 4650
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post


    Buying an HD DVD player is a choice to play movies. That means a %100 attachrate.



    OR another way of looking at it is...



    if i buy a BD movie to watch on my PS3 100% of that movie will play back.



    if i buy 2,10,58 BD movies to play on the PS3 they will all, that is 100% of them will playback on the PS3.



    is that still 100% attachrate? yes.
  • Reply 915 of 4650
    kolchakkolchak Posts: 1,398member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bitemymac View Post


    However, Fox, Disney, and Sony seems to be having a make up session for what was missing from last year and dumping all of them on the first half of the year. Would this last throughout the end of 2007?... probably not ....



    Why not? Do you think the studios have come anywhere near exhausting their catalogs? There are many tens of thousands of movies available in their back catalogs. The few hundred they'll release this year will barely make a dent in that. Even with the blistering pace of SD DVD releases, there is a massive chunk of movies that have yet to see the light of a laser pickup, many of which are cult classics that quite a few people have been clamoring for for years. Not to mention an even larger pool of TV shows, although those are less suited to HD because they're not widescreen.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bitemymac View Post


    As I said before, even with all the BD exclusive studios dumping all the movies at once still yet to make an impact to compete with SD DVD sales. This is the sad truth and it's too early in the game to claim whether either of the Hi-Def or even both Hi-Def formats together can compete with SD-DVD's.



    Now that's silly. Of course there will be a successor to DVD. It's just a matter of time. This isn't like the SACD debacle where CDs already exceed the limits of most people's hearing. TVs are getting bigger, and DVDs just don't look that good at large screen sizes, upconverted or not.



    What you say is like somebody from the 1970s saying "Nobody wants a 60" TV." The truth was few people wanted to pay $10,000 for one and that remains true today. IIRC, the first Advent front-projection set was $6,000 around 1975 and had only a few hundred buyers, the classic early adopters. But prices go down, and now the thought of 60" TVs in mainstream living rooms doesn't seem so outlandish anymore, does it? The same will happen with HD. Do you think the TV networks would have spent tons their money investing in all this HD broadcast and production equipment if they weren't sure there was going to be a market? Nobody in their right mind expected HD discs to displace DVDs immediately any more than they expect the networks to suddenly dump all their SD broadcasts.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Trendannoyer View Post


    I care about films too, i have a TON of DVDs. pretty much all i can "DO" at the moment is my daily "pityful" rehab training to try and get my stamina back up to something vaguely approaching normal (dont do chemo unless you have to ) and then sit and watch movies...



    Good luck. But maybe this is a sign. Time to get a Wii! Rehab and have fun at the same time.
  • Reply 916 of 4650
    vineavinea Posts: 5,585member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Kolchak View Post


    Hogwash. "Decades of being dead." LD wasn't "dead" until the mid to late '90s, after DVDs took off.



    Yes, and to get a LD player today is either used market or $800. My LD collection is mouldering (or more correctly rotting) since my 704 is not loading discs anymore.



    There are only a couple titles I don't have on DVD anyway. When the format war is over the losing format will be in the same boat unless the losing format is Blu-ray. Presumably, unless Sony completely tanks, the PS 4 will run PS 3 discs for games and they might as well let you play Blu-ray movies.



    Otherwise you're stuck with a dead format gathering dust somewhere in your basement.



    Vinea
  • Reply 917 of 4650
    vineavinea Posts: 5,585member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post


    It's still a fact that Blu-ray launched on June 25th no matter how many excuses we attempt to apply. What you're pointing out is that consumers don't really "buy" into a format until it becomes affordable. The PS3 was the first affordable Blu-ray player.



    No, I'm pointing out that everyone from Sony on down pretty much said Blu-ray launches when the PS3 does.



    But whatever...if you're counting from the June 25th date then the Blu-ray launch sucked mightily and HD-DVD still failed to deliver a KO punch. Why? Because it was impossible to know Blu-ray out before the launch of the PS3. You yourself admit HD-DVD didn't do as well as you might have hoped.



    Quote:

    HD DVD will win/lose depending on the content. It's not Blu-ray that will win outright but win by proxy. I find that to be most interesting about the battle. If the content was exactly the same across platforms who would be winning this battle?



    What's still most interesting is you want HD-DVD to survive given it didn't do well enough to establish itself as the dominant movie format. Which puts you squarely in the zealot category. Every non-zealot wants the format war DEAD not lingering onwards for who knows how long.



    If Blu-ray could die tomorrow with Sony replacing every PS3 with a HD-DVD drive I'd cheer. Heck, if every studio but Sony goes HD-DVD exclusive I'd cheer. But that's never going to happen. So might as well hope HD-DVD dies quickly instead. Only 1 studio to capitulate its mind seems much more likely.



    Vinea
  • Reply 918 of 4650
    kolchakkolchak Posts: 1,398member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by vinea View Post


    If Blu-ray could die tomorrow with Sony replacing every PS3 with a HD-DVD drive I'd cheer. Heck, if every studio but Sony goes HD-DVD exclusive I'd cheer. But that's never going to happen. So might as well hope HD-DVD dies quickly instead. Only 1 studio to capitulate its mind seems much more likely.



    Especially since Universal really doesn't have much to lose by going neutral. Except, of course, supposedly some kind of payoff from Toshiba which we philistines are too ignorant to know about yet Carnac the Magnificent, um, HMurchison has all the details on.
  • Reply 919 of 4650
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Kolchak View Post


    there is a massive chunk of movies that have yet to see the light of a laser pickup



    LOVE that quote not too keen on the implications tho i read somewhere recently that studios are ONLY NOW reaching a point where they have 1/3rd of their catalogue out on DVD!!! and given that they will likely only focus on new releases and RECENT back catalogue... it will be a LONG time before they get to "the good stuff" again





    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Kolchak View Post


    Good luck. But maybe this is a sign. Time to get a Wii! Rehab and have fun at the same time.



    cheers yeah.. wii or not to wii that is the question need to do a little more walking first but by then the PS3 will be out... so...whatch gonna do?
  • Reply 920 of 4650
    Quote:

    It's not Blu-ray that will win outright but win by proxy.



    a win is a win, is a win IS A WIN!



    its STILL a WIN! good GROTH ALMIGHTY!
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