Everyone here is focussing only on video/movies. There is music and photos and internet video content. Netflix/Tivo, etc. don't address these at all and my eyeHome does a shtty job on these. I thing ATV will be a success (don't know how large) because it unifies access to all of these. Like the iPod version 1 will grow based on experience and feedback of actually users.
I am sorry. I can't imagine a market for a product that allows a user to play internet video clips (from YouTube, Break, Google, AOL, etc.) on your television.
Am I the only one who thinks the Apple TV might be a huge flop? After the initial coolest factor of Apple's newest toy is gone, I can't really see the point of this product.
- Nobody is going to cancel their Netflix/BlockBuster DVD subscription over this.
- Nobody is going to cancel their TiVo/Cable Company DVR service over this.
- I can't imagine that many iTunes users buying as much TV/Movie content as they do Music content.
- At best the iTunes/Apple TV is an awkward solution to a personal on-demand DVD center.
Even if Apple adds a DVR and rental services (and that is a very big if) will they be enough for you to cancel your membership to another service?
I just don't get it?? What I am missing?
Dave
You're not missing anything, Dave. I've made the same points since AppleTV's introduction. It's a product that cannot stand alone and is hare-brained in it's current form.
Once (and might I add, "if") Apple has the leverage to offer DVR, rentals and some the other fine suggestions that have been made on these boards, it will have a competitive product. Right now, it is not.
So many people seem to be looking at the AppleTV for what it is NOT. It plays music and movies streamed from other computers. I've had a Mac Mini on my TV for a year which does this fine. The Mini plays many more video formats than the AppleTV, and is a real computer to boot.
I think the AppleTV could be Apple's "toe in the water" towards some of these really cool things. But at least per announced specs, it's just an easier way of doing a very limited number of things.
for me the only interesting thing about AppleTV is whenever they support 1080p and 5.1 audio, I would record using Elgato hdtv content from my satellite provider and then watch it in my entertainment room hdtv set streaming from my computer at my office . Also same applies to my music on itunes to my stereo on the living room.
I have no desire to buy TV Shows and Movies on ITMS at this time. The quality is low and I rather purchase the physical media and have there a back up, hi-quality and the artwork. (blu-ray anyone?)
I think the AppleTV needs to evolve in something bigger and more interesting on the next versions to become a huge success IMHO.
This first gen seems to be a 'toe in the water' as stated. Just making some usually 'complex' things for non-computer people easy. I know it isn't hard to just network a computer and connect it to a TV, but most non-technophiles can't get this through their heads. They use things as labeled on the box and/or how it was set up for them.
It's obvious that Apple TV is a device for a niche market. It offers no competition to Netflix/DVD because the iTunes store only has 500 movies or so, they are not for rent but for sale and it takes awhile to download them (4-5 hours for the average dsl/cable customer).
Unless Apple unveils a movie rental service where you can schedule iTunes to rent 3 movies a week and pay $20/mo, there's really no competition. Movies are not like tunes, most movies we watch are crappy and not even worth seeing once and most of the ones worth seeing are only worth seeing once.
There'll be a small number of people buying Apple TVs compared to the people buying iPods.
I've downloaded movies from iTunes before via DSL, and it only takes 45 minutes or so, and the AppleTV will start viewing the movie BEFORE the download finishes - that's what the HDD is for! That won't be a problem at all.
However, I tend to agree on the own/buy thing - I don't usually want to actually buy a movie - I'd rather rent it then delete it when done.
This analyst has the same problem a lot of people have when they look at this device. they see it and don't see what Apple wants you to see, but what they WANT to see!
Apple wants this to be a connector from your Mac to your TV. Period, end of story.
Ever heard of the Digital Hub? That's what Steve calls the Mac. This thing is supposed to bring content from your Mac to your TV, and they want to sell you the content using the web and your Mac.
Although, Steve and Apple aren't completely stupid. I think that eventually, they'll get the rent issue and will start doing that. After all, they aren't really in the content arena, they want you to buy their products - and to rent you'll still have to own the right mix of products to get their rental stuff!
So - TiVo? No, it won't kill that one, but Netflix? Maybe in a few years they'll be in a good position to compete.
This first gen seems to be a 'toe in the water' as stated. Just making some usually 'complex' things for non-computer people easy. I know it isn't hard to just network a computer and connect it to a TV, but most non-technophiles can't get this through their heads. They use things as labeled on the box and/or how it was set up for them.
IMO, and speaking as an Apple stockholder , I would have much preferred that Apple would have targeted a larger audience for AppleTV and make it work for non-computer owners also as a DVR containing tons of additional functionality and incentive for the buyer to eventually upgrade to a Mac. This would provide an upgrade path that would multiply iTunes and iPod purchases.
Everyone here is focussing only on video/movies. There is music and photos and internet video content. Netflix/Tivo, etc. don't address these at all and my eyeHome does a shtty job on these. I thing ATV will be a success (don't know how large) because it unifies access to all of these. Like the iPod version 1 will grow based on experience and feedback of actually users.
Tivo already does music (mp3's and supposedly unprotected AAC's with an install of LAME) and photos from your computer. It also now has TV and movie purchasing and movie rentals via Amazon's Unbox, although you have to do the purchasing from a computer (just like AppleTV). It also plays a couple basic games and allows some access to basic internet content like weather and traffic reports via Yahoo. Listening to music is painless on the Tivo (except that I encoded most of my content as AAC).
At the risk of flogging a deceased equine, the number of movies I really want to own is limited, nearly all of them concert videos.
I listen to music over and over... I want to 'own' those (however the recording industry lets me define that.)
I really don't want to spend massive memory and $$ on owning Movies. I watch them once, maybe twice for director's narrative. A few kids movies may get repeated viewing.
But what's with this obsession on buying movies? I want to DVR and rent.
Tivo already does music (mp3's and supposedly unprotected AAC's with an install of LAME) and photos from your computer. It also now has TV and movie purchasing and movie rentals via Amazon's Unbox, although you have to do the purchasing from a computer (just like AppleTV). It also plays a couple basic games and allows some access to basic internet content like weather and traffic reports via Yahoo. Listening to music is painless on the Tivo (except that I encoded most of my content as AAC).
Actually everyone in my family finds the Tivo Music interface (series 2) very bad and not worth it since it doesn't play the ACC (I assume your talking about installing LAME on TiVo which is beyond the scope of most). I find ACC much better quality than MP3. Also, the photo quality on TiVo I find unacceptable. Color is bad and contract too high. I'm hoping (don't know I'll be the first to admit) that given component out on the ATV that photos will actually be nice to look at. So I don't count Tivo for this function.
At the risk of flogging a deceased equine, the number of movies I really want to own is limited, nearly all of them concert videos.
I listen to music over and over... I want to 'own' those (however the recording industry lets me define that.)
I really don't want to spend massive memory and $$ on owning Movies. I watch them once, maybe twice for director's narrative. A few kids movies may get repeated viewing.
But what's with this obsession on buying movies? I want to DVR and rent.
Just curious.
You just said the truth.
I don't understand why people buy tons of movies. I only buy music videos, concerts, kids movies and hardly ever some sports dvds. Those, I have interested to watch more than two times.
The banners at MacWorld hinted towards something big, You ain't seen nothin' yet stylee. This IS just the beggining of a new, mass consumer market product stategy at Apple. It's obvious, it started with the Mini, most affordable mac ever. now iPhone, everyone wants one, TV is just the begining, and i'm sure there is LOADS more from where they came from... i Hope....
Um, Jobs didn't found Pixar. He bought it from George Lucas. I mean yeah, he founded it in the sense that he renamed the newly independent company Pixar, but it's not like he made it from scratch. This nitpick brought to you by the letter 7 and the number Q.
The people who made PIXAR before it was PIXAR were Catmull amongst others who all formed PIXAR so in essence, PRMan and the rest was done at PIXAR. What tools they developed at Lucas later either merged or were scrapped when Lucas formed ILM.
Clearly, such language about Lucas letting Catmull find a buyer makes it clear he didn't control the intellectual property over Catmull.
Yes, Jobs founded PIXAR. Catmull wasn't the boss. He found his partner, in Steve, who ran a company while sharing a vision amicable to Catmull's dreams.
I am already starting to encode my entire DVD (300 plus movies) collection to get ready for the AppleTV but it will be some time before I get one.
I'm doing the same and re-importing my music at a higher bit rate also. I installed four 400GB SATA drives in a G4 tower and made two 800GB drives, one being a backup of the other, to be my media center for when I get an AppleTV and HDTV.
I'm a huge Apple fan (with a huge list of Apple products), but you must be kid'n me! My Tivo isn't going anywhere... Especialy since I can now buy/rent and send "Amazon Unbox" movies/TV shows over to my Tivo (not to mention Tivo's ability to play music and view photo from my Mac. I can also send MPEG-2 Video from my Mac to my Tivo. Oh yah... It even records TV shows)... Apple TV is a little overpriced for the things it does. If it was around $150.00 maybe I would consider buying one...
Someone, go on youTube and search for very first ipod keynote. It's very low key. iPod did not get much attention at first. AppleTV won't either. A couple generations down the road, yes AppleTV will be the dominant computer/tv integration, especially once all televisions will require at least a analog to digital converter in 2009. Tivo will be held in the same regards as sansa or creative. AppleTV will have the 'cool' appeal. This factor is a very underestimated power among buyers' decisions. All of us that read this blog are educated consumers and usually don't care much about cool. We need to think about the fact that a majority of consumers are uneducated and they count on the cool factor. The 'cool' appeal is something Apple does better than every other company.
Comments
Everyone here is focussing only on video/movies. There is music and photos and internet video content. Netflix/Tivo, etc. don't address these at all and my eyeHome does a shtty job on these. I thing ATV will be a success (don't know how large) because it unifies access to all of these. Like the iPod version 1 will grow based on experience and feedback of actually users.
I am sorry. I can't imagine a market for a product that allows a user to play internet video clips (from YouTube, Break, Google, AOL, etc.) on your television.
Dave
Am I the only one who thinks the Apple TV might be a huge flop? After the initial coolest factor of Apple's newest toy is gone, I can't really see the point of this product.
- Nobody is going to cancel their Netflix/BlockBuster DVD subscription over this.
- Nobody is going to cancel their TiVo/Cable Company DVR service over this.
- I can't imagine that many iTunes users buying as much TV/Movie content as they do Music content.
- At best the iTunes/Apple TV is an awkward solution to a personal on-demand DVD center.
Even if Apple adds a DVR and rental services (and that is a very big if) will they be enough for you to cancel your membership to another service?
I just don't get it?? What I am missing?
Dave
You're not missing anything, Dave. I've made the same points since AppleTV's introduction. It's a product that cannot stand alone and is hare-brained in it's current form.
Once (and might I add, "if") Apple has the leverage to offer DVR, rentals and some the other fine suggestions that have been made on these boards, it will have a competitive product. Right now, it is not.
I think the AppleTV could be Apple's "toe in the water" towards some of these really cool things. But at least per announced specs, it's just an easier way of doing a very limited number of things.
I have no desire to buy TV Shows and Movies on ITMS at this time. The quality is low and I rather purchase the physical media and have there a back up, hi-quality and the artwork. (blu-ray anyone?)
I think the AppleTV needs to evolve in something bigger and more interesting on the next versions to become a huge success IMHO.
It's obvious that Apple TV is a device for a niche market. It offers no competition to Netflix/DVD because the iTunes store only has 500 movies or so, they are not for rent but for sale and it takes awhile to download them (4-5 hours for the average dsl/cable customer).
Unless Apple unveils a movie rental service where you can schedule iTunes to rent 3 movies a week and pay $20/mo, there's really no competition. Movies are not like tunes, most movies we watch are crappy and not even worth seeing once and most of the ones worth seeing are only worth seeing once.
There'll be a small number of people buying Apple TVs compared to the people buying iPods.
I've downloaded movies from iTunes before via DSL, and it only takes 45 minutes or so, and the AppleTV will start viewing the movie BEFORE the download finishes - that's what the HDD is for! That won't be a problem at all.
However, I tend to agree on the own/buy thing - I don't usually want to actually buy a movie - I'd rather rent it then delete it when done.
This analyst has the same problem a lot of people have when they look at this device. they see it and don't see what Apple wants you to see, but what they WANT to see!
Apple wants this to be a connector from your Mac to your TV. Period, end of story.
Ever heard of the Digital Hub? That's what Steve calls the Mac. This thing is supposed to bring content from your Mac to your TV, and they want to sell you the content using the web and your Mac.
Although, Steve and Apple aren't completely stupid. I think that eventually, they'll get the rent issue and will start doing that. After all, they aren't really in the content arena, they want you to buy their products - and to rent you'll still have to own the right mix of products to get their rental stuff!
So - TiVo? No, it won't kill that one, but Netflix? Maybe in a few years they'll be in a good position to compete.
This first gen seems to be a 'toe in the water' as stated. Just making some usually 'complex' things for non-computer people easy. I know it isn't hard to just network a computer and connect it to a TV, but most non-technophiles can't get this through their heads. They use things as labeled on the box and/or how it was set up for them.
IMO, and speaking as an Apple stockholder
Everyone here is focussing only on video/movies. There is music and photos and internet video content. Netflix/Tivo, etc. don't address these at all and my eyeHome does a shtty job on these. I thing ATV will be a success (don't know how large) because it unifies access to all of these. Like the iPod version 1 will grow based on experience and feedback of actually users.
Tivo already does music (mp3's and supposedly unprotected AAC's with an install of LAME) and photos from your computer. It also now has TV and movie purchasing and movie rentals via Amazon's Unbox, although you have to do the purchasing from a computer (just like AppleTV). It also plays a couple basic games and allows some access to basic internet content like weather and traffic reports via Yahoo. Listening to music is painless on the Tivo (except that I encoded most of my content as AAC).
Besides it doesn't even have an ATI x1900xt gpu.
I listen to music over and over... I want to 'own' those (however the recording industry lets me define that.)
I really don't want to spend massive memory and $$ on owning Movies. I watch them once, maybe twice for director's narrative. A few kids movies may get repeated viewing.
But what's with this obsession on buying movies? I want to DVR and rent.
Just curious.
Tivo already does music (mp3's and supposedly unprotected AAC's with an install of LAME) and photos from your computer. It also now has TV and movie purchasing and movie rentals via Amazon's Unbox, although you have to do the purchasing from a computer (just like AppleTV). It also plays a couple basic games and allows some access to basic internet content like weather and traffic reports via Yahoo. Listening to music is painless on the Tivo (except that I encoded most of my content as AAC).
Actually everyone in my family finds the Tivo Music interface (series 2) very bad and not worth it since it doesn't play the ACC (I assume your talking about installing LAME on TiVo which is beyond the scope of most). I find ACC much better quality than MP3. Also, the photo quality on TiVo I find unacceptable. Color is bad and contract too high. I'm hoping (don't know I'll be the first to admit) that given component out on the ATV that photos will actually be nice to look at. So I don't count Tivo for this function.
At the risk of flogging a deceased equine, the number of movies I really want to own is limited, nearly all of them concert videos.
I listen to music over and over... I want to 'own' those (however the recording industry lets me define that.)
I really don't want to spend massive memory and $$ on owning Movies. I watch them once, maybe twice for director's narrative. A few kids movies may get repeated viewing.
But what's with this obsession on buying movies? I want to DVR and rent.
Just curious.
You just said the truth.
I don't understand why people buy tons of movies. I only buy music videos, concerts, kids movies and hardly ever some sports dvds. Those, I have interested to watch more than two times.
Everything else, movies and tv shows I rent.
Um, Jobs didn't found Pixar. He bought it from George Lucas. I mean yeah, he founded it in the sense that he renamed the newly independent company Pixar, but it's not like he made it from scratch. This nitpick brought to you by the letter 7 and the number Q.
The people who made PIXAR before it was PIXAR were Catmull amongst others who all formed PIXAR so in essence, PRMan and the rest was done at PIXAR. What tools they developed at Lucas later either merged or were scrapped when Lucas formed ILM.
ILM Faq: http://www.ilmfan.com/main/index.php...on=8:6:7#ILM10
Clearly, such language about Lucas letting Catmull find a buyer makes it clear he didn't control the intellectual property over Catmull.
Yes, Jobs founded PIXAR. Catmull wasn't the boss. He found his partner, in Steve, who ran a company while sharing a vision amicable to Catmull's dreams.
I am already starting to encode my entire DVD (300 plus movies) collection to get ready for the AppleTV but it will be some time before I get one.
I'm doing the same and re-importing my music at a higher bit rate also. I installed four 400GB SATA drives in a G4 tower and made two 800GB drives, one being a backup of the other, to be my media center for when I get an AppleTV and HDTV.
Hmm. you mean like this ?
And some more cool stuff.
MPEG-4 Encoding
He who laughs last ....
...is the only one left laughing.
Apple WILL do whatever it takes to upgrade this thing. I do hope we see movie rentals soon.
Hmm. you mean like this ?
That's one potential buy the Apple would be wise to make with their big wad of cash.