They don't. Or at least, I don't. What I was pointing out is that builds that are released to developers are betas.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. H
They don't. Or at least, I don't. What I was pointing out is that builds that are released to developers are betas.
Not necessarily. By definition beta means "The last software testing phase before a production rollout"
Obviously it doesn't or is not required that a developer conduct external testing. As we know, Apple has been quite secretive about most things until they are ready to and whether or not any external testing is every done is either not divulged or limited in nature. Either way, we really don't know. However, if the developer doesn't call them betas, I wouldn't. It is not my job to do so.
For sure, if there are more features of the product as Job's stated that are being kept secret, the current set of builds does not fit the definition. Unless of course, Apple has already tested them and has blocked their functionality from the group of testers.
As well, I would be hard pressed to take anybody's word that they have seen or are part of the builds that have been released for testing. I feel assured that you, like me, having the privilege to be part of that program would certainly curtail us from disclosing any informatin that would expose ourself to possible litigation for not complying to the non-disclosure agreement (NDA) that we would have had to sign.
Like you, I too agree they are more like alphas. And until the summer solstice, Leopard is on schedule.
By definition beta means "The last software testing phase before a production rollout"
I disagree.
A beta is a build of a codebase with a particular set of intended functionality. If that build turns out to be perfect, it is no longer a beta and can be released/used etc. If not, changes to the code are made, it's rebuilt, and the cycle continues.
The 9A builds of OS X (Leopard) have a particular set of intended functionality. This set of functionality is the same whether it's build 9A1 or 9A8479, the difference between these builds is that 9A1 didn't achieve the intended set of functionality due to bugs in the code or due to poor implementation. The seeds being released to developers are 9A codebase betas.
Strictly speaking, the 9A builds that have been released to developers are alphas (i.e. pre-beta) of 10.5.0 because they don't have the full intended functionality set of the 10.5.0 release.
As the saying goes, "a rose by any other name is still a rose."
My point was that only the developer can call it beta or alpha or anything else that they may want. Some define alpha for versions being tested by third-parties but being conducted internally vs. beta if the testers are doing it off site. Go figure. So I take back my previous definition in part.
Either way, there is no set ground rules and definitions vary considerably. For sure, there is no requirement or law that the software be completely functional as planned for a release to be called a beta version.
So, I can also state, I don't necessarily disagree.
Leopard will ship by June people. Unless Apple wants to delay the iPhone also, which is obviously running Leopard, and have tremendous egg on their face I don't see reason for concern. I never expected Leopard at Macworld, or any time shortly thereafter. Spring, which just started btw is when Apple said they'll ship, and what reason do we have to doubt them? The notion that Apple would delay their OS to support Vista in some fashion is patently absurd!
Apple never said Leopard would be ready by April. They said "Spring", which is anytime between two days ago and June 20th. If they release it prior to June 20th, there's no delay.
Which Spring? Apple's 4th Quarter ends in August, but that is the end of Summer. We'll go with seasonal Spring conditions to make your statement have validation, but don't confuse the two.
Either way, the WWDC sessions chalk full of new Cocoa for Leopard exposed APIs makes it clear that the teams are comfortable with the development of these APIs and that they are reaching a level of maturity that will satisfy GM.
A beta is a build of a codebase with a particular set of intended functionality. If that build turns out to be perfect, it is no longer a beta and can be released/used etc. If not, changes to the code are made, it's rebuilt, and the cycle continues.
The 9A builds of OS X (Leopard) have a particular set of intended functionality. This set of functionality is the same whether it's build 9A1 or 9A8479, the difference between these builds is that 9A1 didn't achieve the intended set of functionality due to bugs in the code or due to poor implementation. The seeds being released to developers are 9A codebase betas.
Strictly speaking, the 9A builds that have been released to developers are alphas (i.e. pre-beta) of 10.5.0 because they don't have the full intended functionality set of the 10.5.0 release.
I don't think your original poster realizes that one can have several Release Candidates that reach Gamma level and that the public dev builds being on par with Betas.
I personally think this rumor is bunk! There is no way Steve Jobs or Apple would delay the release of it's Next Generation operating system for the sole purpose of interoperating/integrating more Microsoft functionality. To even suggest such a notion is laughable. Thousands of people are switching to the mac platform every month, not because it runs some variant of Windows, but rather the functionality of Mac OS X. Switcher's do appreciate the ability to dual boot, or virtualize windows on a Mac, but ultimatly they've switched for the Mac OS X experience. If you're utilizing the dual OS functionality of an Apple system, its for one or two programs you can't seem to find for Mac OS X. I don't think switcher care whether they can run the latest Windows varient, just so long as they can access some data or functionality from some software that won't "currently" run on Mac OS X.
So what does that say about sites that pick up these stories?
The thing about AppleInsider is that its forum allows the story to be debated. Digitimes appears to be a significant publication, even if it is always wrong. I think it's good that AppleInsider picks up on their stories, so that we can all point out what a load of rubbish they all are.
Leopard will ship by June people. Unless Apple wants to delay the iPhone also, which is obviously running Leopard, and have tremendous egg on their face I don't see reason for concern. I never expected Leopard at Macworld, or any time shortly thereafter. Spring, which just started btw is when Apple said they'll ship, and what reason do we have to doubt them? The notion that Apple would delay their OS to support Vista in some fashion is patently absurd!
There is nothing about the Leopard that would cause a delay of the iphone. Just because the big cat is delayed doesn't mean the version of the software for the phone also has to be delayed. Leopard for the iPhone isn't being released as a general product.
And also remember that most iPhone users will probably be Windows users, so there's no need for software specific in Leopard for it to work.
It's hard to say without knowing the scale and impact of the features, assuming the secret features do exist. A lot of apps are included with the OS that don't have an impact on the OS itself. The extra secret features could be major updates to iCal, address book, iSync, or some other app that doesn't need a new or modified framework to operate, or that it might need a new framework that's not needed by other apps.
I never have considered the apps that Apple includes with OS X to be part of the OS (sorry, but a Mail app is a Mail app, its not something that should be tied to an OS release).
But your list a great example of why even separate 'apps' need to go to developers. A super-secret update to Mail or iCal can easily break third-party add-ons to such products that can cause a world of hurt. There could be changes that break communications to certain servers that don't get tested until its out the door.
And look at iSync. Maybe something like that might be a great feature, but without giving developers time to get the software to work with their peripherals, it just sits in the Apps folder doing nothing.
And what is the point of keeping the so-called super-secret features super-secret? If they're any good, the ideas are going get duplicated for Tiger and Windows. You can't stop it. And if they aren't good, you're just setting yourself up to be mocked.
I never have considered the apps that Apple includes with OS X to be part of the OS (sorry, but a Mail app is a Mail app, its not something that should be tied to an OS release).
But they are so they're candidates for these features. They're tied to the release because they require the release and they help sell the OS and hardware.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Louzer
And what is the point of keeping the so-called super-secret features super-secret?
The Buzz.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Louzer
If they're any good, the ideas are going get duplicated for Tiger and Windows. You can't stop it.
But they can be delayed - significantly - therefore creating more potential sales for Leopard for the people who want those features.
"Boot Camp is an Apple software application that currently assists in the installation of Windows XP on computers using Apple's latest OS," the publication said. "The company hopes with support for Vista, Mac computers using the new OS can grab more market share, according to the sources."
DigiTimes, whose accuracy in prediction Apple's future directions is mediocre at best, cited its sources in saying that if Leopard supports only Windows XP, then the chances of the new OS attracting Windows users to buy an Apple computer decreases.
][/url][/c]
This is total nonsense. Vista works today and works well. I'm running Vista x64 with absolutely no problems, and have been since December. If they are going to delay it, it won't be because of Vista.
A long delay past June would be bad as too many other products have not yet been released that aparently have a dependency on Leopard. They are going to lose a lot of sales and not meet the expectations if they don't start releasing something good soon. Delay if you have to, but not for Vista, do that in 10.5.1 or 2.
Lets get all the other products out, and get those credit cards going.
Comments
Why would I want to run a set of virus infested, flea infested set of exe files?
That's assuming they are. I have never infected a Windows computer, with exes or otherwise.
They don't. Or at least, I don't. What I was pointing out is that builds that are released to developers are betas.
They don't. Or at least, I don't. What I was pointing out is that builds that are released to developers are betas.
Not necessarily. By definition beta means "The last software testing phase before a production rollout"
Obviously it doesn't or is not required that a developer conduct external testing. As we know, Apple has been quite secretive about most things until they are ready to and whether or not any external testing is every done is either not divulged or limited in nature. Either way, we really don't know. However, if the developer doesn't call them betas, I wouldn't. It is not my job to do so.
For sure, if there are more features of the product as Job's stated that are being kept secret, the current set of builds does not fit the definition. Unless of course, Apple has already tested them and has blocked their functionality from the group of testers.
As well, I would be hard pressed to take anybody's word that they have seen or are part of the builds that have been released for testing. I feel assured that you, like me, having the privilege to be part of that program would certainly curtail us from disclosing any informatin that would expose ourself to possible litigation for not complying to the non-disclosure agreement (NDA) that we would have had to sign.
Like you, I too agree they are more like alphas. And until the summer solstice, Leopard is on schedule.
? Wow!
Only Microsofties wow!! Please make sure you save the WWDC07 date.
So, what's gonna happen in October?:
1- my Bday!
2- an all new video iPod with touchscreen!!
By definition beta means "The last software testing phase before a production rollout"
I disagree.
A beta is a build of a codebase with a particular set of intended functionality. If that build turns out to be perfect, it is no longer a beta and can be released/used etc. If not, changes to the code are made, it's rebuilt, and the cycle continues.
The 9A builds of OS X (Leopard) have a particular set of intended functionality. This set of functionality is the same whether it's build 9A1 or 9A8479, the difference between these builds is that 9A1 didn't achieve the intended set of functionality due to bugs in the code or due to poor implementation. The seeds being released to developers are 9A codebase betas.
Strictly speaking, the 9A builds that have been released to developers are alphas (i.e. pre-beta) of 10.5.0 because they don't have the full intended functionality set of the 10.5.0 release.
They have some ulterior motive they are trying to serve with this bit of BS.
I disagree.
As I stated, "Not necessarly."
As the saying goes, "a rose by any other name is still a rose."
My point was that only the developer can call it beta or alpha or anything else that they may want. Some define alpha for versions being tested by third-parties but being conducted internally vs. beta if the testers are doing it off site. Go figure. So I take back my previous definition in part.
Either way, there is no set ground rules and definitions vary considerably. For sure, there is no requirement or law that the software be completely functional as planned for a release to be called a beta version.
So, I can also state, I don't necessarily disagree.
I'm assuming DigiTimes beat it's writer day and night for a month with a stupid stick before they wrote that bit of speculation.
They have some ulterior motive they are trying to serve with this bit of BS.
The motivation is that anytime they post something about Macs, they get kajillions of hits from Mac fanatics.
It's a proven (if slimy) business/marketing tactic in the tech world... Mac users have a, ahem, bit of a reputation.
Apple never said Leopard would be ready by April. They said "Spring", which is anytime between two days ago and June 20th. If they release it prior to June 20th, there's no delay.
Which Spring? Apple's 4th Quarter ends in August, but that is the end of Summer. We'll go with seasonal Spring conditions to make your statement have validation, but don't confuse the two.
Either way, the WWDC sessions chalk full of new Cocoa for Leopard exposed APIs makes it clear that the teams are comfortable with the development of these APIs and that they are reaching a level of maturity that will satisfy GM.
I disagree.
A beta is a build of a codebase with a particular set of intended functionality. If that build turns out to be perfect, it is no longer a beta and can be released/used etc. If not, changes to the code are made, it's rebuilt, and the cycle continues.
The 9A builds of OS X (Leopard) have a particular set of intended functionality. This set of functionality is the same whether it's build 9A1 or 9A8479, the difference between these builds is that 9A1 didn't achieve the intended set of functionality due to bugs in the code or due to poor implementation. The seeds being released to developers are 9A codebase betas.
Strictly speaking, the 9A builds that have been released to developers are alphas (i.e. pre-beta) of 10.5.0 because they don't have the full intended functionality set of the 10.5.0 release.
I don't think your original poster realizes that one can have several Release Candidates that reach Gamma level and that the public dev builds being on par with Betas.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Softwar...ase_life_cycle
For anyone looking for clarification on what Beta is generally understood to mean, may I suggest...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Softwar...ase_life_cycle
Compounded by others as stated in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_testing
The motivation is that anytime they post something about Macs, they get kajillions of hits from Mac fanatics.
It's a proven (if slimy) business/marketing tactic in the tech world... Mac users have a, ahem, bit of a reputation.
So what does that say about sites that pick up these stories?
So what does that say about sites that pick up these stories?
The thing about AppleInsider is that its forum allows the story to be debated. Digitimes appears to be a significant publication, even if it is always wrong. I think it's good that AppleInsider picks up on their stories, so that we can all point out what a load of rubbish they all are.
Leopard will ship by June people. Unless Apple wants to delay the iPhone also, which is obviously running Leopard, and have tremendous egg on their face I don't see reason for concern. I never expected Leopard at Macworld, or any time shortly thereafter. Spring, which just started btw is when Apple said they'll ship, and what reason do we have to doubt them? The notion that Apple would delay their OS to support Vista in some fashion is patently absurd!
There is nothing about the Leopard that would cause a delay of the iphone. Just because the big cat is delayed doesn't mean the version of the software for the phone also has to be delayed. Leopard for the iPhone isn't being released as a general product.
And also remember that most iPhone users will probably be Windows users, so there's no need for software specific in Leopard for it to work.
It's hard to say without knowing the scale and impact of the features, assuming the secret features do exist. A lot of apps are included with the OS that don't have an impact on the OS itself. The extra secret features could be major updates to iCal, address book, iSync, or some other app that doesn't need a new or modified framework to operate, or that it might need a new framework that's not needed by other apps.
I never have considered the apps that Apple includes with OS X to be part of the OS (sorry, but a Mail app is a Mail app, its not something that should be tied to an OS release).
But your list a great example of why even separate 'apps' need to go to developers. A super-secret update to Mail or iCal can easily break third-party add-ons to such products that can cause a world of hurt. There could be changes that break communications to certain servers that don't get tested until its out the door.
And look at iSync. Maybe something like that might be a great feature, but without giving developers time to get the software to work with their peripherals, it just sits in the Apps folder doing nothing.
And what is the point of keeping the so-called super-secret features super-secret? If they're any good, the ideas are going get duplicated for Tiger and Windows. You can't stop it. And if they aren't good, you're just setting yourself up to be mocked.
I never have considered the apps that Apple includes with OS X to be part of the OS (sorry, but a Mail app is a Mail app, its not something that should be tied to an OS release).
But they are so they're candidates for these features. They're tied to the release because they require the release and they help sell the OS and hardware.
And what is the point of keeping the so-called super-secret features super-secret?
The Buzz.
If they're any good, the ideas are going get duplicated for Tiger and Windows. You can't stop it.
But they can be delayed - significantly - therefore creating more potential sales for Leopard for the people who want those features.
"Boot Camp is an Apple software application that currently assists in the installation of Windows XP on computers using Apple's latest OS," the publication said. "The company hopes with support for Vista, Mac computers using the new OS can grab more market share, according to the sources."
DigiTimes, whose accuracy in prediction Apple's future directions is mediocre at best, cited its sources in saying that if Leopard supports only Windows XP, then the chances of the new OS attracting Windows users to buy an Apple computer decreases.
][/url][/c]
This is total nonsense. Vista works today and works well. I'm running Vista x64 with absolutely no problems, and have been since December. If they are going to delay it, it won't be because of Vista.
K.W.
Lets get all the other products out, and get those credit cards going.