HDTV does not equal ATSC tuner.. help me out
I know in 2009, they are supposed to close the door on NTSC/analog broadcasts. We are supposed to all be able to receive HDTV/ATSC broadcasts by then.
My problem has been finding televisions that are actually sold WITH the tuners to be able to get this new signal. I know they sell the massive big screen televisions with tuners, but I am looking into smaller (say 30" and under) televisions for other uses around the home. I'm actually more of the mindset that buys 19" or so televisions for bedrooms, travel trailers and so forth, but I guess I am becoming a minority in that mindset.
Anyone care to note smaller televisions that they know are available, that they have seen in use or that they have purchased?
Also I've noticed that some televisions are considered standard or enhanced definition while still being labeled as having analog and digital tuners with the digital tuners being ATSC. How well will these work considering ATSC was supposed to be HD?
Nick
My problem has been finding televisions that are actually sold WITH the tuners to be able to get this new signal. I know they sell the massive big screen televisions with tuners, but I am looking into smaller (say 30" and under) televisions for other uses around the home. I'm actually more of the mindset that buys 19" or so televisions for bedrooms, travel trailers and so forth, but I guess I am becoming a minority in that mindset.
Anyone care to note smaller televisions that they know are available, that they have seen in use or that they have purchased?
Also I've noticed that some televisions are considered standard or enhanced definition while still being labeled as having analog and digital tuners with the digital tuners being ATSC. How well will these work considering ATSC was supposed to be HD?
Nick
Comments
Let's put it this way: HDTV is ATSC, but ATSC isn't necessarily HDTV. You can have a standard definition digital broadcast that gives a very clear picture but doesn't have the resolution of HDTV. That even means that there are widescreen standard definition broadcasts.
Unfortunately, you're going to be hard pressed to find a ~19" TV with an ATSC tuner built in right now. I think the smallest I've seen is a 20" and they're few and far between. Wait a little while and there will be more of them since retailers are now required to sell >14" TVs with an ATSC tuner built in.
March 1 2007 is a very important date for those people purchasing new consumer electronics equipment that contain tuners. Starting today March 1 2007 every single consumer product that contains an analog NTSC tuner that is manufactured for the United States market is required to also have an ATSC digital tuner.
An ATSC tuner allows consumers to receive free local standard digital and HDTV digital signals from over the air TV stations when an outdoor or indoor TV antenna is used. The reason for the tuner mandate is that by February 17th 2009 all NTSC analog broadcasts are scheduled to cease and convert to ATSC. The 85% of the consumers that receive television signals by cable TV and satellite television will not be affected at all by this mandate. Only around 15% of the Americans are estimated to watch TV with an outdoor or indoor antenna.
ATSC external tuners use to cost over $1,000 many years ago. Thanks to the government mandate many consumer products will see only around a $30 price increase since the ATSC chipset is being produced in quantity built into all consumer products that currently contain a NTSC tuner.
Around 80% of the new consumer products that contain an ATSC tuner also contain a QAM tuner. A QAM tuner allows consumers to watch standard digital and HDTV digital in the clear unencrypted cable TV programming without a cable box. Some high-end consumer products allow consumers to subscribe to encrypted premium program with the cable card QAM feature. QAM currently is not mandated by the FCC but it is a feature that many manufactories include in consumer electronics products. Some cable companies have plans to one day turn off the NTSC analog signal and switch to 100% digital QAM. The QAM feature is important for consumers that do not use an external cable box and subscribe to cable TV.
Last year on March 1 2006 all TV’s 25 inches and larger were mandated by law to include an ATSC tuner. Today if you walk into any retail store like Best Buy, Circuit City, or Walmart you will not find any TV’s 25 inches or larger without the ATSC tuner feature. What is unique about the March 1 2007 mandate is that it includes all TV’s regardless of screen size and all consumer devices that contain a NTSC tuner, including anything that records and contains a NTSC tuner like DVD, DVR, etc. Many of these new products are currently on the shelf in retail stores now. The old consumer products that only contain NTSC tuners are currently being discontinued by many stores at clearance prices. **In about 2 or 3 months most of the old NTSC tuner only products will be off the shelf’s across the USA**.
The ATSC mandate has helped kill the VHS format. JVC the inventor of the VHS and S-VHS format announced that they will no longer be making VHS or S-VHS machines. Also the JVC HDTV D-VHS format looks like it is dead. Even the top of the line JVC D-VHS that has an ATSC tuner is being discontinued. This is a shame since 2008 is the earliest date that HDTV BLU-RAY recordable standalone home units will appear on the US market. All other companies that make standalone VCR’s have discontinued making VCR’s. There are a few companies making new low quality combo VCR/DVD recorders with ATSC tuners and a few companies making new low quality combo ATSC TV’s with VCR/DVD’s. None of these companies are making S-VHS combo’s or D-VHS combo’s or standalone VHS machines. To make a long story short JVC the inventor of VHS, S-VHS, and HDTV D-VHS has stopped making machines so all 3 VHS formats are dead.
Some consumers are going to get confused with this new ATSC tuner mandate. For example the ATSC tuner mandate only includes products that contain a NTSC tuner. Products labeled Monitors which have no tuners built in are except from the mandate and will require an external tuner to watch TV programs. Also many new cheap low cost DVD recorders and DVD/VCR combo recorders are coming to market with no tuners built in. An external tuner is required to record TV programming.
All ATSC products with tuners are required to receive the following signals 480I, 480P, 720P, and 1080I signals. 480I and 480P are known as standard definition quality with 720 X 480 resolutions. 720P (1280 X 720) and 1080I (1920 X 1080) is known as HDTV quality. The low cost standard definition non-HDTV consumer products will convert all ATSC signals to either 480I or 480P quality. Only products that are labeled HDTV 720P, 1080I, or 1080P are HDTV products. To make things more confusing every consumer display that is labeled 1080I can receive a 1920 X 1080 signal but can only display around 1300 X 1080I worth of resolution. Only displays that are labeled 1080P are required to be able to display over 2 million pixels with true 1920 X 1080 interlace and progressive quality. The reason why 1080P HDTV displays are available only in technologies like LCOS, DLP, LCD, and Plasma and not CRT picture tubes is because no one has been able to make a large screen CRT cheap enough with 2 million pixels. Every HDTV big CRT consumer picture tube is either labeled 720P or 1080I and not 1080P since none is able to display 1920 X 1080 quality. Some rare CRT computer monitors and 9 inch CRT front projectors will display 1920 X 1080 resolution. 1080P quality several years ago was only available on $100,000 ceiling mounted front projectors. Today low cost 1080P displays can be found under $1,000 at Walmart and other retail stores. 1080P is the max quality in HDTV and is now become a mainstream consumer product with wide spread consumer acceptance.
Keep in mind though that the 2009 deadline is for over-the-air signals you get from bunny ears. Cable and satellite users are not effected.
A similar situation has developed in Europe where PAL 625 line broadcasts are due to end fairly soon. Analogue shut down dates are varying from 2007 to 2012 (the EU deadline)
Again, in Europe TVs continue to be sold without DVB-T (the Euro standard for digital tv) tuners built in.
Although, it's really only a matter of connecting a very small settop box to the TV via a SCART connector (standard Euro AV connector 20 pin). I assume in the US, it's just a matter of connecting up with phono RGB cables or SVideo or something.
I'd say somehow though that NTSC and PAL will be around for a few years after their official cutoff dates.
I suppose manufacturers will concentrate on higher spec TVs before they start putting somewhat more expensive digital tuners into cheap lower end and smaller sets.
While I don't think the majority of viewers (in the US or Europe) will care, as they're probabally watching digital TV already via cable or satellite, you can be damn sure that there'll be a hardcore of elderly grandmothers who will suddenly come out of the woodwork when they realise they have to fork out money for a settop box to continue watching TV
Not to mention all those people who have small televisions in bedrooms / kitchens etc that are currently connected to analogue cable or receiving TV via an antenna. They're not going to be very impressed with having to buy several set top boxes to continue to view.
At least when they converted to colour TV in the 50s/60s older monochrome tvs remained compatable with the new colour signals.
Although, the UK did a definition convertion in the 60s too, moving from 405 lines to 625 lines (European standard). France also did a standarisation to 625 lines. Their old monochorome standard was HDTV with 819 lines horizontal resolution!! They had to dump it as when you added colour, the bandwidth was unacceptably high at that resolution and it would have limited the number of TV networks
When those standard conversions happened, the original plan was a clean switch over, but it ended up with situations where old standards and new standards co-existed for years (even decades) to serve the few angry old grannies who wouldn't give up their old B&W set without a fight!
Best buy should still have this TV in stock.
CJ
I purchased a Samsung HDTV tube TV (27"); it's fantastic and has a built-in HDTV tuner.
My 30" Toshiba tube HDTV is also a great unit. I've got to say that if you can put up with the enormous size and weight of them, a tube HDTV is a VERY cost-effective way to get a high-def TV.
My 30" Toshiba tube HDTV is also a great unit. I've got to say that if you can put up with the enormous size and weight of them, a tube HDTV is a VERY cost-effective way to get a high-def TV.
That's true; I almost busted my gut trying to lift my 100 lb TV up the stairs!
CJ