You're right, in fact the optical drive can easily become obsolete within 10 years if everything switches to downloads. Personally I don't see the need in one for sub notebooks if they use a dock. Maybe I'm crazy, but I'm still after a Macbook Something? with no moving parts built into it, which is no doubt wishful thinking on my part...
Sebastian
No moving parts is my dream too, and it may happen soon! Flash storage + external optical would do the trick.
Opticals are still needed, for installation, and file sharing and $^&%$^%& game copy protection, and sometimes for movie playback... but you don't need an optical drive ALL the time, so making it external for the sake of a smaller portable is perfect in my view.
The 12" PB is gone. What will replace it? I think something will
No moving parts is my dream too, and it may happen soon! Flash storage + external optical would do the trick.
Opticals are still needed, for installation, and file sharing and $^&%$^%& game copy protection, and sometimes for movie playback... but you don't need an optical drive ALL the time, so making it external for the sake of a smaller portable is perfect in my view.
The 12" PB is gone. What will replace it? I think something will
Going along with you are saying about "no moving parts" and giving it a couple years to happen, wouldn't it be cheaper and more minimalist in design to offer an optical drive as an extra accessory and put the OS X boot/recovery disc on a special Apple-branded USB flash drive?
I really hope Apple doesn't do what pretty much every other PC OEM does. They put the recovery disc on the HDD; taking up 5GB of useful storage.
A new drive swap offered by FastMac is giving hope to Mac owners riding the cutting edge of movie editing and playback, but is leaving many others wondering why Apple hasn't been willing to help of its own accord.
It's pretty simple, boys: there's a format war still on. Apple's decided to go with Blu-Ray because of higher data storage, but there's a poisoned apple (not Apple) attached to this, too: DRM. The MPAA Nazis have managed to make Vista nearly unusable. There is incredible copy protection all up and down the chain. If the MPAA decides they don't like your video card because it has component out -- piracy city -- they can simply revoke the key, and then you're video card plays EDTV, not 1080p. Sure, there are hacks, but the key nazis have already revoked one key, and there will be more to come.
2. There is no clear winner between blu-ray and the HD-DVD formats (although Blu-ray is much, much better suited for computing applications)
it'd make more sense to add blu-ray as a mac pro or xserve option. but as far as options for consumer applications, doesn't make sense yet due to the cost.
Not really. Go to Amazon, you'll find plenty of Blu-Ray movies for around $20-25, which ain't bad. And of course, as Blu-Ray becomes more popular, those prices will drop.
Quote:
Its all about HD-DVD.
Again, not really. In recent months Blu-Ray has been handily outselling HD-DVD, due in large part to Blu-Ray being included with the Playstation 3. Some anaysts expect HD-DVD to disappear all together by next year.
Quote:
And most people download movies that are ripped from warez sites and stuff anyways so it really doesn't matter.
If by 'most people' you mean teenagers and college students, ok, maybe. But most people don't have fat enough pipes to download HD content efficiently yet... choking down a 10+ GB HD movie file on DSL takes all day. And illegal downloading of standard def movies sure hasn't killed DVD, now has it?
The Blu-ray and HD-DVD movies are not recorded on computers, but instead are sent to a manufacturer that "presses" them. The authoring software is all that is needed by professionals. Only us amateurs need the burner, and I expect them as a BTO shortly.
I know that the final product is replicated.
How are the discs tested to make sure that they work in real players before going through the expense of making a glass master? Incidentally, I wonder if there are official emulators and official test discs to help validate discs and machines. That was one thing that would have been nice for early DVD years because I've seen several cases where the DVD authoring house blamed some popular brand DVD player for getting it wrong, and I've seen some cases where the DVD authoring was clearly wrong too. Both Bly-Ray and HD-DVD are a lot more complex than DVD. Right now, one big compatibility issue has already creeped up, Children of Men on HD-DVD doesn't work on the XBox 360.
Either way, Apple doesn't offer the authoring software, so if a Mac is used to edit or encode a video, they'll likely have to hand it off to someone else to do the authoring work.
It's pretty simple, boys: there's a format war still on. Apple's decided to go with Blu-Ray because of higher data storage, but there's a poisoned apple (not Apple) attached to this, too: DRM. The MPAA Nazis have managed to make Vista nearly unusable. There is incredible copy protection all up and down the chain. If the MPAA decides they don't like your video card because it has component out -- piracy city -- they can simply revoke the key, and then you're video card plays EDTV, not 1080p. Sure, there are hacks, but the key nazis have already revoked one key, and there will be more to come.
there is a wide spread Mac press/blog misperception on apples commitment to Blu-Ray. Its been suggested ever since Jobs was seen on stage with Sony Japan president, and Apple becoming a member on the Blu-Ray Associations Board. Apples only commitment of public record is to
H.264 codec standard. Maybe someone can find a quote i missed somewhere. Apple is on the fence official as far as i can see...and if you read this press release they seem more slanted toward HD-DVD.
2. There is no clear winner between blu-ray and the HD-DVD formats (although Blu-ray is much, much better suited for computing applications)
it'd make more sense to add blu-ray as a mac pro or xserve option. but as far as options for consumer applications, doesn't make sense yet due to the cost.
"Give the man a cigar!"
It is far from clear that either Blu-ray or HD-DVD will prevail in the market place, especially with the price bias that will keep them from being in the homes of any but the bleeding edge early adopters. A few discs on the shelf at your friendly neighborhood Best Buy does not spell success (for either of them).
There will continue to be a market for media based movies & etc for a very long time to come. The dream of downloads is just that, a dream, for huge portions of the country. Many people remain saddled with dialup and have trouble even keeping their operating systems up-to-date because of it. (Neither Apple nor Microsoft have adequately addressed this problem.)
If someone has an urgent professional need for either of these formats it is quite simple to install one in their Mac Pro or attach it as an external SATA drive.
Consumers, on the other hand, will wait for the situation to resolve itself. Very few people believe that the current pricing of these drives is cost driven...try simple gouging/greed as a pricing factor. That is not a compelling combination.
there is a wide spread Mac press/blog misperception on apples commitment to Blu-Ray. Its been suggested ever since Jobs was seen on stage with Sony Japan president, and Apple becoming a member on the Blu-Ray Associations Board. Apples only commitment of public record is to
H.264 codec standard. Maybe someone can find a quote i missed somewhere. Apple is on the fence official as far as i can see...and if you read this press release they seem more slanted toward HD-DVD.
From that (early 2005) press release, seems like Apple was keeping its options open:
Apple is committed to both emerging high definition DVD standards—Blu-ray Disc and HD DVD. Apple is an active member of the DVD Forum which developed the HD DVD standard, and last month joined the Board of Directors of the Blu-ray Disc Association.
Of course, that was back in early '05, two years ago, and long before it became apparent that Blu-Ray was pulling ahead in disc sales, as it has been over the past few months.
Apple will likely jump in once there's a clear winner, and that's increasingly looking like it'll be Blu-Ray. But it's still early days yet. The problem is the PS3... it will increasingly tilt the playing field Sony's way here.
Personally I don't see the need in one for sub notebooks if they use a dock.
Sebastian
I agree with you I have an ultra portable that I take on long trips with a travel battery and I love it. For home use (when I use it at home which is not often) I can and do use an external DVD writer with it.
The dream of downloads is just that, a dream, for huge portions of the country. Many people remain saddled with dialup and have trouble even keeping their operating systems up-to-date because of it. (Neither Apple nor Microsoft have adequately addressed this problem.)
I agree but Microsoft generally does better than Apple in this respect. For one, they offer stuff like service packs on CD, but they charge $5-$10 handling fee. Microsoft's non-service pack updates are usually smaller too. Most of Microsoft's updates patch the offending files. Apple's application updates basically mean that the entire application is re-installed with the new version.
I do have satellite internet and sometimes it's problematic. Their full download of the MW07 keynote is 1GB and I only managed to get half the file. Apple's Quicktime streaming just doesn't work. I've usually done OK with Apple's updates though, I just try to keep them in under 100GB batches per night when they update more than one program.
From that (early 2005) press release, seems like Apple was keeping its options open:
Of course, that was back in early '05, two years ago, and long before it became apparent that Blu-Ray was pulling ahead in disc sales, as it has been over the past few months.
Apple will likely jump in once there's a clear winner, and that's increasingly looking like it'll be Blu-Ray. But it's still early days yet. The problem is the PS3... it will increasingly tilt the playing field Sony's way here.
.
I agree blu-ray is selling slightly more discs-with direct correlation to PS3. This market is still very small compared to DVD. Its still very much in the air. I feel as if whatever format apple decides will offer a tremendous amount of marketing momentum because of its high profile as an innovative lifestyle brand. HD-DVD offers better backward compatible DVD speeds at a lower price and has a clear marketing message DVD+HD.
BURN Speeds for legacy formats CD, CD-RW, DVD & DVD-DL are important because they will remain the main stream for the foreseeable future and will likely become more popular as prices for these formats will fall even lower.
I do have satellite internet and sometimes it's problematic. Their full download of the MW07 keynote is 1GB and I only managed to get half the file. Apple's Quicktime streaming just doesn't work. I've usually done OK with Apple's updates though, I just try to keep them in under 100GB batches per night when they update more than one program.
Too bad about your satellite internet. I'm always able to see the 'Stevenotes' with no problem on streaming Quicktime, and I d-loaded the last keynote off iTunes, again with no prob. But I do have a cable modem, not satellite.
A few people have touched on this before, but I think the thing to keep in mind that sticking a Blu-Ray drive into a Mac does not equate to playing next-gen (bought) content- read the page at FastMac, they don't dare to claim that; all this product really is is a fatter DVD-R. I think this makes the report, and the 'lagging behind' tagline, a non-story.
The extreme lengths that both next-gen format consortia have gone to to protect their data when played inside a computer (ie HDCP, High-Bandwidth Digital Content Protection) mean that having an add-on like this will never allow an upgraded mac to play that content, unless someone cracks the encryption scheme wide open.
To be certified to play HD content, there must be an end-to-end encrypted data path through the machine, even down to the digital connection to the display. As such, it requires a new platform (such as Santa Rosa for notebooks) to even consider it. Sure, Apple could also offer a Blu-Ray burner in their existing lineup, but I think people would be more than a bit miffed that they couldn't offer early adopters the ability to play HD content off it. They are much better off waiting until the tech is more settled before they try to implement it.
It's not just a case of Apple putting a new drive in. They have to rip the guts out of OS X to make it check hundreds of times per second for voltage irregularities along the video card bus, to ensure the data is not being pilfered.
The day OS X can play HD is the day OS X is ruined.
Not sure I follow you. My 2 GIG Mac Dual G5 can burn an Hi Def DVD using DVD Pro HD using footage I shot on my Sony FX1 HDV Camera and can play it. I fully appreciate this is not a true HD DVD since it uses a standard DVD disk and only a Mac can play it but it is, sure as heck, true 1920 x 1080i HD output.
The Blu-ray and HD-DVD movies are not recorded on computers, but instead are sent to a manufacturer that "presses" them. The authoring software is all that is needed by professionals. Only us amateurs need the burner, and I expect them as a BTO shortly.
This is true of SD DVDs for mass duplication but you can also burn them for low volume. The same will be true of HD whatever format you choose (or wins out) , you will be able to burn them once we have burners or send disk away (or data on hard drive) to a pressing plant.
Comments
You're right, in fact the optical drive can easily become obsolete within 10 years if everything switches to downloads. Personally I don't see the need in one for sub notebooks if they use a dock. Maybe I'm crazy, but I'm still after a Macbook Something? with no moving parts built into it, which is no doubt wishful thinking on my part...
Sebastian
No moving parts is my dream too, and it may happen soon! Flash storage + external optical would do the trick.
Opticals are still needed, for installation, and file sharing and $^&%$^%& game copy protection, and sometimes for movie playback... but you don't need an optical drive ALL the time, so making it external for the sake of a smaller portable is perfect in my view.
The 12" PB is gone. What will replace it? I think something will
No moving parts is my dream too, and it may happen soon! Flash storage + external optical would do the trick.
Opticals are still needed, for installation, and file sharing and $^&%$^%& game copy protection, and sometimes for movie playback... but you don't need an optical drive ALL the time, so making it external for the sake of a smaller portable is perfect in my view.
The 12" PB is gone. What will replace it? I think something will
Going along with you are saying about "no moving parts" and giving it a couple years to happen, wouldn't it be cheaper and more minimalist in design to offer an optical drive as an extra accessory and put the OS X boot/recovery disc on a special Apple-branded USB flash drive?
I really hope Apple doesn't do what pretty much every other PC OEM does. They put the recovery disc on the HDD; taking up 5GB of useful storage.
A new drive swap offered by FastMac is giving hope to Mac owners riding the cutting edge of movie editing and playback, but is leaving many others wondering why Apple hasn't been willing to help of its own accord.
It's pretty simple, boys: there's a format war still on. Apple's decided to go with Blu-Ray because of higher data storage, but there's a poisoned apple (not Apple) attached to this, too: DRM. The MPAA Nazis have managed to make Vista nearly unusable. There is incredible copy protection all up and down the chain. If the MPAA decides they don't like your video card because it has component out -- piracy city -- they can simply revoke the key, and then you're video card plays EDTV, not 1080p. Sure, there are hacks, but the key nazis have already revoked one key, and there will be more to come.
1. it's $799.
2. There is no clear winner between blu-ray and the HD-DVD formats (although Blu-ray is much, much better suited for computing applications)
it'd make more sense to add blu-ray as a mac pro or xserve option. but as far as options for consumer applications, doesn't make sense yet due to the cost.
who cares about Blu-Ray discs, they are EXPENSIVE
Not really. Go to Amazon, you'll find plenty of Blu-Ray movies for around $20-25, which ain't bad. And of course, as Blu-Ray becomes more popular, those prices will drop.
Its all about HD-DVD.
Again, not really. In recent months Blu-Ray has been handily outselling HD-DVD, due in large part to Blu-Ray being included with the Playstation 3. Some anaysts expect HD-DVD to disappear all together by next year.
And most people download movies that are ripped from warez sites and stuff anyways so it really doesn't matter.
If by 'most people' you mean teenagers and college students, ok, maybe. But most people don't have fat enough pipes to download HD content efficiently yet... choking down a 10+ GB HD movie file on DSL takes all day. And illegal downloading of standard def movies sure hasn't killed DVD, now has it?
.
The Blu-ray and HD-DVD movies are not recorded on computers, but instead are sent to a manufacturer that "presses" them. The authoring software is all that is needed by professionals. Only us amateurs need the burner, and I expect them as a BTO shortly.
I know that the final product is replicated.
How are the discs tested to make sure that they work in real players before going through the expense of making a glass master? Incidentally, I wonder if there are official emulators and official test discs to help validate discs and machines. That was one thing that would have been nice for early DVD years because I've seen several cases where the DVD authoring house blamed some popular brand DVD player for getting it wrong, and I've seen some cases where the DVD authoring was clearly wrong too. Both Bly-Ray and HD-DVD are a lot more complex than DVD. Right now, one big compatibility issue has already creeped up, Children of Men on HD-DVD doesn't work on the XBox 360.
Either way, Apple doesn't offer the authoring software, so if a Mac is used to edit or encode a video, they'll likely have to hand it off to someone else to do the authoring work.
It's pretty simple, boys: there's a format war still on. Apple's decided to go with Blu-Ray because of higher data storage, but there's a poisoned apple (not Apple) attached to this, too: DRM. The MPAA Nazis have managed to make Vista nearly unusable. There is incredible copy protection all up and down the chain. If the MPAA decides they don't like your video card because it has component out -- piracy city -- they can simply revoke the key, and then you're video card plays EDTV, not 1080p. Sure, there are hacks, but the key nazis have already revoked one key, and there will be more to come.
Good points.
.
H.264 codec standard. Maybe someone can find a quote i missed somewhere. Apple is on the fence official as far as i can see...and if you read this press release they seem more slanted toward HD-DVD.
http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2005/apr/17hd.html
here's why apple hasn't leapt on board:
1. it's $799.
2. There is no clear winner between blu-ray and the HD-DVD formats (although Blu-ray is much, much better suited for computing applications)
it'd make more sense to add blu-ray as a mac pro or xserve option. but as far as options for consumer applications, doesn't make sense yet due to the cost.
"Give the man a cigar!"
It is far from clear that either Blu-ray or HD-DVD will prevail in the market place, especially with the price bias that will keep them from being in the homes of any but the bleeding edge early adopters. A few discs on the shelf at your friendly neighborhood Best Buy does not spell success (for either of them).
There will continue to be a market for media based movies & etc for a very long time to come. The dream of downloads is just that, a dream, for huge portions of the country. Many people remain saddled with dialup and have trouble even keeping their operating systems up-to-date because of it. (Neither Apple nor Microsoft have adequately addressed this problem.)
If someone has an urgent professional need for either of these formats it is quite simple to install one in their Mac Pro or attach it as an external SATA drive.
Consumers, on the other hand, will wait for the situation to resolve itself. Very few people believe that the current pricing of these drives is cost driven...try simple gouging/greed as a pricing factor. That is not a compelling combination.
there is a wide spread Mac press/blog misperception on apples commitment to Blu-Ray. Its been suggested ever since Jobs was seen on stage with Sony Japan president, and Apple becoming a member on the Blu-Ray Associations Board. Apples only commitment of public record is to
H.264 codec standard. Maybe someone can find a quote i missed somewhere. Apple is on the fence official as far as i can see...and if you read this press release they seem more slanted toward HD-DVD.
http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2005/apr/17hd.html
From that (early 2005) press release, seems like Apple was keeping its options open:
Apple is committed to both emerging high definition DVD standards—Blu-ray Disc and HD DVD. Apple is an active member of the DVD Forum which developed the HD DVD standard, and last month joined the Board of Directors of the Blu-ray Disc Association.
Of course, that was back in early '05, two years ago, and long before it became apparent that Blu-Ray was pulling ahead in disc sales, as it has been over the past few months.
Apple will likely jump in once there's a clear winner, and that's increasingly looking like it'll be Blu-Ray. But it's still early days yet. The problem is the PS3... it will increasingly tilt the playing field Sony's way here.
.
The 12" PB is gone. What will replace it? I think something will
SUBNOTEBOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOK!!!!! Booyah!!
.
Personally I don't see the need in one for sub notebooks if they use a dock.
Sebastian
I agree with you I have an ultra portable that I take on long trips with a travel battery and I love it. For home use (when I use it at home which is not often) I can and do use an external DVD writer with it.
The dream of downloads is just that, a dream, for huge portions of the country. Many people remain saddled with dialup and have trouble even keeping their operating systems up-to-date because of it. (Neither Apple nor Microsoft have adequately addressed this problem.)
I agree but Microsoft generally does better than Apple in this respect. For one, they offer stuff like service packs on CD, but they charge $5-$10 handling fee. Microsoft's non-service pack updates are usually smaller too. Most of Microsoft's updates patch the offending files. Apple's application updates basically mean that the entire application is re-installed with the new version.
I do have satellite internet and sometimes it's problematic. Their full download of the MW07 keynote is 1GB and I only managed to get half the file. Apple's Quicktime streaming just doesn't work. I've usually done OK with Apple's updates though, I just try to keep them in under 100GB batches per night when they update more than one program.
CD: Killer app was clear audio, less corruption of data, and large data capacity, no more multi-disk installs
DVD: Killer app was significantly clearer video, portable movies w/ a laptop, no more multi-CD installs.
HD-DVD / Blue Ray: TBD
From that (early 2005) press release, seems like Apple was keeping its options open:
Of course, that was back in early '05, two years ago, and long before it became apparent that Blu-Ray was pulling ahead in disc sales, as it has been over the past few months.
Apple will likely jump in once there's a clear winner, and that's increasingly looking like it'll be Blu-Ray. But it's still early days yet. The problem is the PS3... it will increasingly tilt the playing field Sony's way here.
.
I agree blu-ray is selling slightly more discs-with direct correlation to PS3. This market is still very small compared to DVD. Its still very much in the air. I feel as if whatever format apple decides will offer a tremendous amount of marketing momentum because of its high profile as an innovative lifestyle brand. HD-DVD offers better backward compatible DVD speeds at a lower price and has a clear marketing message DVD+HD.
BURN Speeds for legacy formats CD, CD-RW, DVD & DVD-DL are important because they will remain the main stream for the foreseeable future and will likely become more popular as prices for these formats will fall even lower.
I do have satellite internet and sometimes it's problematic. Their full download of the MW07 keynote is 1GB and I only managed to get half the file. Apple's Quicktime streaming just doesn't work. I've usually done OK with Apple's updates though, I just try to keep them in under 100GB batches per night when they update more than one program.
Too bad about your satellite internet. I'm always able to see the 'Stevenotes' with no problem on streaming Quicktime, and I d-loaded the last keynote off iTunes, again with no prob. But I do have a cable modem, not satellite.
.
There is no, to use a hackneyed phrase, there is no “killer app” yet.
CD: Killer app was clear audio, less corruption of data, and large data capacity, no more multi-disk installs
DVD: Killer app was significantly clearer video, portable movies w/ a laptop, no more multi-CD installs.
HD-DVD / Blue Ray: TBD
Umm... high-definition video, just maybe?
People do watch movies on their laptops, after all, as you yourself note. Games will take advantage of the increased space too.
.
The extreme lengths that both next-gen format consortia have gone to to protect their data when played inside a computer (ie HDCP, High-Bandwidth Digital Content Protection) mean that having an add-on like this will never allow an upgraded mac to play that content, unless someone cracks the encryption scheme wide open.
To be certified to play HD content, there must be an end-to-end encrypted data path through the machine, even down to the digital connection to the display. As such, it requires a new platform (such as Santa Rosa for notebooks) to even consider it. Sure, Apple could also offer a Blu-Ray burner in their existing lineup, but I think people would be more than a bit miffed that they couldn't offer early adopters the ability to play HD content off it. They are much better off waiting until the tech is more settled before they try to implement it.
It's not just a case of Apple putting a new drive in. They have to rip the guts out of OS X to make it check hundreds of times per second for voltage irregularities along the video card bus, to ensure the data is not being pilfered.
The day OS X can play HD is the day OS X is ruined.
Not sure I follow you. My 2 GIG Mac Dual G5 can burn an Hi Def DVD using DVD Pro HD using footage I shot on my Sony FX1 HDV Camera and can play it. I fully appreciate this is not a true HD DVD since it uses a standard DVD disk and only a Mac can play it but it is, sure as heck, true 1920 x 1080i HD output.
The Blu-ray and HD-DVD movies are not recorded on computers, but instead are sent to a manufacturer that "presses" them. The authoring software is all that is needed by professionals. Only us amateurs need the burner, and I expect them as a BTO shortly.
This is true of SD DVDs for mass duplication but you can also burn them for low volume. The same will be true of HD whatever format you choose (or wins out) , you will be able to burn them once we have burners or send disk away (or data on hard drive) to a pressing plant.