That's Nancy Fohring's opinion. Nothing more. And you were comletely flippant in your original position as well. So there's plenty of 'tude to go around. Early adopters a "whack"?
I've been around here a helluva lot longer than you have. You better grow a thicker skin if you want to last.
Noob. Typical American trying to talk technology. No wonder you lot get crap majority of the time when it comes to phones lol.
Of course, everyone remembers that Apple has a lot of cash in the bank. They just might start to buy up wireless in the same way that Deutsche Telecom (T-Mobile) did in the US and keep all the profits at Apple. It could happen... slowly I turn...
Actually, I did know about that. And it's very strange, wouldn't you say? But there could be more to the story than the one we've heard from Verison.
Quote:
Remember, Cingular/ATT wasn't the first carrier Apple offered the iPhone to... Verizon was. Which would've necessitated a CDMA iPhone. I don't think Apple would've entered into serious negotiations with Verizon unless they could deliver a CDMA iPhone that would be well-received by the market, and part of that includes having acceptable talk and standby times (even on the GSM iPhone, talk time was mentioned during the Stevenote).
In fact, the above makes me wonder... were the very first iPhone prototypes actually CDMA then? They would've had to show Verizon something, I think. Hmm...
Even if Apple chose CDMA in the US, they would have to chose GSM outside North America.[/ quote]
Which really isn't a big deal. CDMA technology is mature, inexpensive, and well understood. It's not difficult at all to make a phone in both CDMA and GSM 'flavors'... the RAZR is, for example.
Again, it's not really a large hurdle. Motorola doesn't seem to have any problem cranking out both GSM and CDMA RAZRs for the US market, in fact, they're happy to, since the US market is split almost 50-50 between CDMA and GSM (with CDMA being a bit ahead) and doing so effectively doubles their revenues here.
At some point, Apple will have to make a CDMA iPhone if they really truly want to cash in on the US market. Cingular/ATT is only a little more than 25% of the US market... would not Apple want to eventually sell to the entire market? This is one of the things that makes me think that the exclusivity clause of the Apple-ATT contract either has loopholes for new models or is of a shorter duration than ATT is giving the impression of it being.
Perhaps, but here's the thing... what if Verizon had said "Yes."??? What does Steve say then? "Um... err... just kidding. Heh."
I think it's more realistic to believe that Jobs had a Plan A (Verizon, whom he approached first) and a Plan B (ATT/Cingular), and he was only too happy to play them off against one another in order to secure better terms for Apple. But he was likely prepared to go with either. If you think about it, these two carriers were the only realistic partners for Apple in the US market, what with the only other potentials being T-Mobile (too small) and Sprint-Nextel (going through merger hell, generally underperforming, and in the midst of a not-fun major technology migration from iDEN to CDMA for its Nextel customers).
Basically, Jobs shopped the iPhone to 'everyone who made sense' in the US. Since the technological hurdles of making both a CDMA and a GSM version aren't high, it's logical to assume that he was willing to go with whomever came closer to meeting his terms, i.e. whomever needed the iPhone more. That was ATT.
Of course. Jobs gave them a shot at it, but on terms that Verizon wasn't willing to agree to, and now its in the hands of Verizon's #1 competitor, who's going to club them over the head with it mercilessly until and unless Verizon gets their own version, which even in a best case scenario won't be for awhile.
They're also pissed because they're used to a world in which the carriers have always told the phonemakers what they want and the phonemakers then jump to it (even majors like Nokia and Motorola). The carriers had the power, the control. Apple went directly in the face of that, and Verizon was just not used to it. I can only imagine what the negotiations must've been like.
You want WANT again, Steve?
They probably ain't laughing now.
.
Of course, it could just of easily been the other way around. Cingular/ATT could have been plan "A", and Verison been plan "B".
If Cingular didn't play ball, they could have gone with Verison, but as Cingular did, they didn't have to.
It's also possible that once Cingular said yes, and with the required exclusivity given, they then COULDN'T have gone to Verison as well. It could be that Apple simply stopped serious negotiations, and Verison broke it off.
I've seen this tactic in business before. You don't always want to be seen as the one breaking off negotiations. This way you can always go back later and say; "We wanted to play ball, but you guys weren't interested.".
I also don't feel compoftable with the source. I find it hard to believe that at this stage of manufacture that this could occur.
When we design a product, we know pretty much what the power consumption each of the components requires. We can fairly easily calculate the total power consumption of the device, with a certain percentage of error. That error could be 25%, even possibly, a bit more. If so, we go back and check to see that everything meets spec. If there is a design problem causing it, we can fix that.
But if this were true, then it would mean that the spec is off by 400%, an impossible number.
The only way that could happen is if the batteries themselves had some problem with self discharge, or a major problem existed in the design, which just doesn't seem to be possible now.
Why do people hate this Dvorak so much? Is it becasue hes posting negative comments about the iphone?
What if they turn out to be true?>
Dvorak used to be a Mac user, and wrote for the Mac press. When he went to Windows, he became very nasty, baiting Mac users, as he himself admitted, so that his columns would get hits, and therefore look to be more popular than they are.
It's difficult to take something seriously that he says, when he says it without attribution, as he often, as he himself admits, makes things up.
Dvorak used to be a Mac user, and wrote for the Mac press. When he went to Windows, he became very nasty, baiting Mac users, as he himself admitted, so that his columns would get hits, and therefore look to be more popular than they are.
It's difficult to take something seriously that he says, when he says it without attribution, as he often, as he himself admits, makes things up.
So you think the comments regarding the iphones battery is completley untrue? For all prospective iphone owners im sure we all hope so.
Then again do you not all find it strange that no standby time was anounced. Just a usage time.
If all companies done that the figures would be misleading. For example the N95 has a talktime of 6 hours yet only a standby time of 220 hours which is poor considering how powerful it is.
With a screen of the iphones size and running os x i wouldnt rule out a stand by time of less than 200 hours which is quite frankly embarrasing. Its using a li ion battery so its not going to be great with a screen that size. My prediction for standby - 175 hours.
Apples standby times for ipods are always way of the mark which is even more worrying.
So you think the comments regarding the iphones battery is completley untrue? For all prospective iphone owners im sure we all hope so.
Then again do you not all find it strange that no standby time was anounced. Just a usage time.
If all companies done that the figures would be misleading. For example the N95 has a talktime of 6 hours yet only a standby time of 220 hours which is poor considering how powerful it is.
With a screen of the iphones size and running os x i wouldnt rule out a stand by time of less than 200 hours which is quite frankly embarrasing.
I've mentioned the lack of a standby spec before.
But talk specs and standby specs have little to do with each other.
The screen is off during standby, so its size has no relation to that spec. In fact, if the screen blanks out during a phone talk, it would have little effect on that as well.
My Treo 700p has enough talk time for me, and enough standby time. But I often use it for other tasks, reading books, drawing, writing, playing games, and then the phone has to be charged every night.
I'm saying that the 40 minutes sounds like typical Dvorak FUD. Designed to make him the center of attraction, and to get people like you to link to his page.
So you think the comments regarding the iphones battery is completley untrue? For all prospective iphone owners im sure we all hope so.
The closest I've seen a Dvorak prediction being right is when everyone else has been predicting it too. He did correctly predict the move to Intel, but every other pundit did too. I think he predicted that Macs would be Itanium-based. I'm skeptical of Dvorak's source for this story as well.
Quote:
With a screen of the iphones size and running os x i wouldnt rule out a stand by time of less than 200 hours which is quite frankly embarrasing. Its using a li ion battery so its not going to be great with a screen that size. My prediction for standby - 175 hours.
Assuming that you don't use the phone, it would operate in continuous standby for over a week without a recharge. I don't think that's going to be that long. Standby time is generally good enough, what's usually more important is actual drain from actual use. With your number, one hour of device use would be equivalent to 28 hours of standby.
Quote:
Apples standby times for ipods are always way of the mark which is even more worrying.
I don't really remember Apple giving a standby time for iPod.
Why do people hate this Dvorak so much? Is it becasue hes posting negative comments about the iphone?
No. It's because Dvorak is basically the Bill O'Reilly of tech... he's a blowhard douchebag who says obnoxious things to get attention. Probably to make up for the accuracy rate of his predictions, which is fairly poor.
Quote:
What if they turn out to be true?
LOL. Not too bloody likely, as you Brits like to say.
Noob. Typical American trying to talk technology. No wonder you lot get crap majority of the time when it comes to phones lol.
Yes, Americans know nothing about technology. That's why so many large and innovative tech companies are American, and why you're on a forum discussing an American tech company's products.
Oh, and we're getting the iPhone first, aren't we.
Quote:
Is there even HSDPA yet in the states? lol
Uhh... yeah, for at least a couple of years now, though it's only become widespread recently. Cingular/ATT has it deployed in the majority of large US cities now.
And Verizon deployed EVDO widely about a year before Cingular/ATT got on the ball, with Sprint close behind. Americans aren't exactly suffering for lack of 3G, it just isn't deployed in the boondocks, that's all.
So you think the comments regarding the iphones battery is completley untrue? For all prospective iphone owners im sure we all hope so.
Why the hell are we even questioning if Dvorak may be right? This is the guy that said Apple will stop makeing OS X and start using Windows!
Apple posted the iPhone Tech Specs on their website back in January.
In the past (more than 4 years ago) Apple's battery life expectancy was often a bit optimistic, but now they tend to slight underestimate the actual longevity. Using their recent history as precedence, I fully expect the iPhone batty specs are accurate.
Then again do you not all find it strange that no standby time was anounced. Just a usage time.
If all companies done that the figures would be misleading. For example the N95 has a talktime of 6 hours yet only a standby time of 220 hours which is poor considering how powerful it is.
With a screen of the iphones size and running os x i wouldnt rule out a stand by time of less than 200 hours which is quite frankly embarrasing. Its using a li ion battery so its not going to be great with a screen that size. My prediction for standby - 175 hours.
Apples standby times for ipods are always way of the mark which is even more worrying.
Actually, by US standards, under 200 hours standby time isn't that big a deal. In fact, ask an American what the standby time is on his phone, and you'll likely get a shrug.
Why? Because our rate plans offer a LOT more minutes for the money than European carriers do (you're from the UK, correct?). Therefore, Americans use up their battery by actually TALKING on their cellphones, and care a lot more about talk time than standby time. It's a different market than what you're used to.
So, its not really a surprise that Jobs mentioned talk time during his keynote, and not standby time. Because most Americans care a lot more about talk time than standby.
Hope that's helpful in explaining our mad Yank ways.
Yes, Americans know nothing about technology. That's why so many large and innovative tech companies are American, and why you're on a forum discussing an American tech company's products.
Oh, and we're getting the iPhone first, aren't we.
Uhh... yeah, for at least a couple of years now, though it's only become widespread recently. Cingular/ATT has it deployed in the majority of large US cities now.
And Verizon deployed EVDO widely about a year before Cingular/ATT got on the ball, with Sprint close behind. Americans aren't exactly suffering for lack of 3G, it just isn't deployed in the boondocks, that's all.
.
Not to mention the sheer size and volume of the United States. It's certainly a helluva lot easier and cheaper to redo a network in England or Ireland (which combined I doubt equal the size of Texas).
Comments
That's Nancy Fohring's opinion. Nothing more. And you were comletely flippant in your original position as well. So there's plenty of 'tude to go around. Early adopters a "whack"?
I've been around here a helluva lot longer than you have. You better grow a thicker skin if you want to last.
Noob. Typical American trying to talk technology. No wonder you lot get crap majority of the time when it comes to phones lol.
Is there even HSDPA yet in the states? lol
Has anyone seen this? 40 mins battery life, what a rubbish phone this will turn out to be if thats true.
(link removed)
First mistake was indeed having a fixed battery.
First, please don't link to information where Dvorak was clearly in the "supply chain" of information.
Second, I agree, a fixed battery goes against a decade or so of tradition with little justification.
You may be overthinking it, Mel.
Gee, when haven't I been accused of that?
Actually, I did know about that. And it's very strange, wouldn't you say? But there could be more to the story than the one we've heard from Verison.
Remember, Cingular/ATT wasn't the first carrier Apple offered the iPhone to... Verizon was. Which would've necessitated a CDMA iPhone. I don't think Apple would've entered into serious negotiations with Verizon unless they could deliver a CDMA iPhone that would be well-received by the market, and part of that includes having acceptable talk and standby times (even on the GSM iPhone, talk time was mentioned during the Stevenote).
In fact, the above makes me wonder... were the very first iPhone prototypes actually CDMA then? They would've had to show Verizon something, I think. Hmm...
.
Even if Apple chose CDMA in the US, they would have to chose GSM outside North America.[/ quote]
Which really isn't a big deal. CDMA technology is mature, inexpensive, and well understood. It's not difficult at all to make a phone in both CDMA and GSM 'flavors'... the RAZR is, for example.
Again, it's not really a large hurdle. Motorola doesn't seem to have any problem cranking out both GSM and CDMA RAZRs for the US market, in fact, they're happy to, since the US market is split almost 50-50 between CDMA and GSM (with CDMA being a bit ahead) and doing so effectively doubles their revenues here.
At some point, Apple will have to make a CDMA iPhone if they really truly want to cash in on the US market. Cingular/ATT is only a little more than 25% of the US market... would not Apple want to eventually sell to the entire market? This is one of the things that makes me think that the exclusivity clause of the Apple-ATT contract either has loopholes for new models or is of a shorter duration than ATT is giving the impression of it being.
Perhaps, but here's the thing... what if Verizon had said "Yes."??? What does Steve say then? "Um... err... just kidding. Heh."
I think it's more realistic to believe that Jobs had a Plan A (Verizon, whom he approached first) and a Plan B (ATT/Cingular), and he was only too happy to play them off against one another in order to secure better terms for Apple. But he was likely prepared to go with either. If you think about it, these two carriers were the only realistic partners for Apple in the US market, what with the only other potentials being T-Mobile (too small) and Sprint-Nextel (going through merger hell, generally underperforming, and in the midst of a not-fun major technology migration from iDEN to CDMA for its Nextel customers).
Basically, Jobs shopped the iPhone to 'everyone who made sense' in the US. Since the technological hurdles of making both a CDMA and a GSM version aren't high, it's logical to assume that he was willing to go with whomever came closer to meeting his terms, i.e. whomever needed the iPhone more. That was ATT.
Of course. Jobs gave them a shot at it, but on terms that Verizon wasn't willing to agree to, and now its in the hands of Verizon's #1 competitor, who's going to club them over the head with it mercilessly until and unless Verizon gets their own version, which even in a best case scenario won't be for awhile.
They're also pissed because they're used to a world in which the carriers have always told the phonemakers what they want and the phonemakers then jump to it (even majors like Nokia and Motorola). The carriers had the power, the control. Apple went directly in the face of that, and Verizon was just not used to it. I can only imagine what the negotiations must've been like.
You want WANT again, Steve?
They probably ain't laughing now.
.
Of course, it could just of easily been the other way around. Cingular/ATT could have been plan "A", and Verison been plan "B".
If Cingular didn't play ball, they could have gone with Verison, but as Cingular did, they didn't have to.
It's also possible that once Cingular said yes, and with the required exclusivity given, they then COULDN'T have gone to Verison as well. It could be that Apple simply stopped serious negotiations, and Verison broke it off.
I've seen this tactic in business before. You don't always want to be seen as the one breaking off negotiations. This way you can always go back later and say; "We wanted to play ball, but you guys weren't interested.".
First, please don't link to information where Dvorak was clearly in the "supply chain" of information.
Second, I agree, a fixed battery goes against a decade or so of tradition with little justification.
Why do people hate this Dvorak so much? Is it becasue hes posting negative comments about the iphone?
What if they turn out to be true?>
Has anyone seen this? 40 mins battery life, what a rubbish phone this will turn out to be if thats true.
http://theappleblog.com/2007/04/04/d...er-40-minutes/
First mistake was indeed having a fixed battery.
I also don't feel compoftable with the source. I find it hard to believe that at this stage of manufacture that this could occur.
When we design a product, we know pretty much what the power consumption each of the components requires. We can fairly easily calculate the total power consumption of the device, with a certain percentage of error. That error could be 25%, even possibly, a bit more. If so, we go back and check to see that everything meets spec. If there is a design problem causing it, we can fix that.
But if this were true, then it would mean that the spec is off by 400%, an impossible number.
The only way that could happen is if the batteries themselves had some problem with self discharge, or a major problem existed in the design, which just doesn't seem to be possible now.
Why do people hate this Dvorak so much? Is it becasue hes posting negative comments about the iphone?
What if they turn out to be true?>
Dvorak used to be a Mac user, and wrote for the Mac press. When he went to Windows, he became very nasty, baiting Mac users, as he himself admitted, so that his columns would get hits, and therefore look to be more popular than they are.
It's difficult to take something seriously that he says, when he says it without attribution, as he often, as he himself admits, makes things up.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gOHzHVF-4Mg
Dvorak used to be a Mac user, and wrote for the Mac press. When he went to Windows, he became very nasty, baiting Mac users, as he himself admitted, so that his columns would get hits, and therefore look to be more popular than they are.
It's difficult to take something seriously that he says, when he says it without attribution, as he often, as he himself admits, makes things up.
So you think the comments regarding the iphones battery is completley untrue? For all prospective iphone owners im sure we all hope so.
Then again do you not all find it strange that no standby time was anounced. Just a usage time.
If all companies done that the figures would be misleading. For example the N95 has a talktime of 6 hours yet only a standby time of 220 hours which is poor considering how powerful it is.
With a screen of the iphones size and running os x i wouldnt rule out a stand by time of less than 200 hours which is quite frankly embarrasing. Its using a li ion battery so its not going to be great with a screen that size. My prediction for standby - 175 hours.
Apples standby times for ipods are always way of the mark which is even more worrying.
So you think the comments regarding the iphones battery is completley untrue? For all prospective iphone owners im sure we all hope so.
Then again do you not all find it strange that no standby time was anounced. Just a usage time.
If all companies done that the figures would be misleading. For example the N95 has a talktime of 6 hours yet only a standby time of 220 hours which is poor considering how powerful it is.
With a screen of the iphones size and running os x i wouldnt rule out a stand by time of less than 200 hours which is quite frankly embarrasing.
I've mentioned the lack of a standby spec before.
But talk specs and standby specs have little to do with each other.
The screen is off during standby, so its size has no relation to that spec. In fact, if the screen blanks out during a phone talk, it would have little effect on that as well.
My Treo 700p has enough talk time for me, and enough standby time. But I often use it for other tasks, reading books, drawing, writing, playing games, and then the phone has to be charged every night.
I'm saying that the 40 minutes sounds like typical Dvorak FUD. Designed to make him the center of attraction, and to get people like you to link to his page.
Why do people hate this Dvorak so much? Is it becasue hes posting negative comments about the iphone?
What if they turn out to be true?>
Because he's on record as completely making up almost everything he says in order to troll for hits?
He's the Ann Coulter of technology.
So you think the comments regarding the iphones battery is completley untrue? For all prospective iphone owners im sure we all hope so.
The closest I've seen a Dvorak prediction being right is when everyone else has been predicting it too. He did correctly predict the move to Intel, but every other pundit did too. I think he predicted that Macs would be Itanium-based. I'm skeptical of Dvorak's source for this story as well.
With a screen of the iphones size and running os x i wouldnt rule out a stand by time of less than 200 hours which is quite frankly embarrasing. Its using a li ion battery so its not going to be great with a screen that size. My prediction for standby - 175 hours.
Assuming that you don't use the phone, it would operate in continuous standby for over a week without a recharge. I don't think that's going to be that long. Standby time is generally good enough, what's usually more important is actual drain from actual use. With your number, one hour of device use would be equivalent to 28 hours of standby.
Apples standby times for ipods are always way of the mark which is even more worrying.
I don't really remember Apple giving a standby time for iPod.
Why do people hate this Dvorak so much? Is it becasue hes posting negative comments about the iphone?
No. It's because Dvorak is basically the Bill O'Reilly of tech... he's a blowhard douchebag who says obnoxious things to get attention. Probably to make up for the accuracy rate of his predictions, which is fairly poor.
What if they turn out to be true?
LOL. Not too bloody likely, as you Brits like to say.
Dvorak predicted WHAT again?
.
I don't really remember Apple giving a standby time for iPod.
I've never heard of that either.
But, Apple's estimate for play time is always low.
Noob. Typical American trying to talk technology. No wonder you lot get crap majority of the time when it comes to phones lol.
Yes, Americans know nothing about technology. That's why so many large and innovative tech companies are American, and why you're on a forum discussing an American tech company's products.
Oh, and we're getting the iPhone first, aren't we.
Is there even HSDPA yet in the states? lol
Uhh... yeah, for at least a couple of years now, though it's only become widespread recently. Cingular/ATT has it deployed in the majority of large US cities now.
And Verizon deployed EVDO widely about a year before Cingular/ATT got on the ball, with Sprint close behind. Americans aren't exactly suffering for lack of 3G, it just isn't deployed in the boondocks, that's all.
.
So you think the comments regarding the iphones battery is completley untrue? For all prospective iphone owners im sure we all hope so.
Why the hell are we even questioning if Dvorak may be right? This is the guy that said Apple will stop makeing OS X and start using Windows!
Apple posted the iPhone Tech Specs on their website back in January.
In the past (more than 4 years ago) Apple's battery life expectancy was often a bit optimistic, but now they tend to slight underestimate the actual longevity. Using their recent history as precedence, I fully expect the iPhone batty specs are accurate.
Then again do you not all find it strange that no standby time was anounced. Just a usage time.
If all companies done that the figures would be misleading. For example the N95 has a talktime of 6 hours yet only a standby time of 220 hours which is poor considering how powerful it is.
With a screen of the iphones size and running os x i wouldnt rule out a stand by time of less than 200 hours which is quite frankly embarrasing. Its using a li ion battery so its not going to be great with a screen that size. My prediction for standby - 175 hours.
Apples standby times for ipods are always way of the mark which is even more worrying.
Actually, by US standards, under 200 hours standby time isn't that big a deal. In fact, ask an American what the standby time is on his phone, and you'll likely get a shrug.
Why? Because our rate plans offer a LOT more minutes for the money than European carriers do (you're from the UK, correct?). Therefore, Americans use up their battery by actually TALKING on their cellphones, and care a lot more about talk time than standby time. It's a different market than what you're used to.
So, its not really a surprise that Jobs mentioned talk time during his keynote, and not standby time. Because most Americans care a lot more about talk time than standby.
Hope that's helpful in explaining our mad Yank ways.
.
Yes, Americans know nothing about technology. That's why so many large and innovative tech companies are American, and why you're on a forum discussing an American tech company's products.
Oh, and we're getting the iPhone first, aren't we.
Uhh... yeah, for at least a couple of years now, though it's only become widespread recently. Cingular/ATT has it deployed in the majority of large US cities now.
And Verizon deployed EVDO widely about a year before Cingular/ATT got on the ball, with Sprint close behind. Americans aren't exactly suffering for lack of 3G, it just isn't deployed in the boondocks, that's all.
.
Not to mention the sheer size and volume of the United States. It's certainly a helluva lot easier and cheaper to redo a network in England or Ireland (which combined I doubt equal the size of Texas).
He's the Ann Coulter of technology.
Hey! That was my line!