Clears up confusion for me. Whenever people talk to me about HD formats I'll be able to say "Just get a universal player and don't worry about it. You'll be able to play any disc on the shelf."
As Marzetta pointed out, then what do you do when the same people come back and ask should they buy the Blu-ray version or the HD DVD version? Just like people still want to know with today's "universal" DVD burners whether they should buy +R or -R blanks. At which point, it all becomes a morass of which one is more compatible with standalone players, etc.
Call me crazy, but I think it's just so much easier to have a single format, just like I can currently tell people, "Go buy the DVD" or even "Go buy the videocassette" and they'd know exactly what I was talking about. Although even then, there's the problem of which edition should they buy -- the standard edition, the special edition, the extreme edition, the ultimate edition, the 25th anniversary edition...
Clears up confusion for me. Whenever people talk to me about HD formats I'll be able to say "Just get a universal player and don't worry about it. You'll be able to play any disc on the shelf."
Any word on retail price for the Duo HD?
Well... having the universal player option gives consumers more power and choice to find cheaper and better product. Only fanboys would like to see their supporting side to win only and none else to succeed.
You can also see what had happened with hidef audio (SACD vs. DVD-A) market. Even if the software part did not make an impression with J6P due to cost involved to have the system to hear the difference, but the universal hardware had won among the enthusiasts community. Now, you can find an universal audio/video player as cheap as about $80 to as high as $3K+.
Same would also happen with HiDef video market but would probably make bigger impact than the audio market. It's easier/cheaper to see the visual difference than hearing the difference with a given audio system. All one needs is HDTV and HiDef format player. However, in order to get universal hardware to succeed, the price has to come down fast to the $199 level and help J6P to start buying HiDef content movies. Anyway, the current LG universal player is very foully marketed at $1200 MSRP. I'd rather own two separate players than getting the over priced universal unit.
All in all, getting more universal player option is good for the consumers once the price comes down. We shall see $80 universal HiDef players at walmart in not so remote future. When this happens, it's a win/win situation for consumers and the HiDef market as a whole.
You'll tell'em to buy the version that's cheapest or available. Contrary to popular belief, consumers don't have a problem with choice. They have a problem with too many choices.
If we're talking about two potential choices it's either/or. That's easy for consumers.
These players will still be expensive, $1000 but 2nd and 3rd generation players ought to do fine. One format would have been keen but you're rarely ever see a new technology that comes out in one format. Everyone you look there is contention.
You'll tell'em to buy the version that's cheapest or available. Contrary to popular belief, consumers don't have a problem with choice. They have a problem with too many choices.
If we're talking about two potential choices it's either/or. That's easy for consumers.
The problem is that the two choices are DVD vs. HD, and as long as the HD crowd can't agree about one format, they can't win.
There are only two options: One format wins or all players will be combo players.
As long as there is a mix, neutral studios will have to continue being neutral and that's an extra cost no matter what.
Clears up confusion for me. Whenever people talk to me about HD formats I'll be able to say "Just get a universal player and don't worry about it. You'll be able to play any disc on the shelf."
That might be fine for consumers but retailers really won't be too fond of duplication of items in BD and HD-DVD. It takes up more shelf space than it's often worth. I'm sure they'd prefer a victor.
Well... having the universal player option gives consumers more power and choice to find cheaper and better product. Only fanboys would like to see their supporting side to win only and none else to succeed.
And only fanboys will think that the universal players are our answer for cheaper and better product. Last time I checked the LG combo is running at $1,200. I expect more of the same from this Samsung Universal player.
Quote:
You can also see what had happened with hidef audio (SACD vs. DVD-A) market. Even if the software part did not make an impression with J6P due to cost involved to have the system to hear the difference, but the universal hardware had won among the enthusiasts community. Now, you can find an universal audio/video player as cheap as about $80 to as high as $3K+.
The problem here though is that the universal hardware didn't win among the masses,...is this really where we want the high def market going as well? Who cares about the enthusiasts community. If you want a format to be truly successful, it most get past the simple enthusiast community and be embraced by the mass consumer.
Quote:
All in all, getting more universal player option is good for the consumers once the price comes down. We shall see $80 universal HiDef players at walmart in not so remote future. When this happens, it's a win/win situation for consumers and the HiDef market as a whole.
Hmm, I see. But I'm afraid there will be a clear winner In my opinion by the time universal hardware comes down to $80. For the high def market sakes, let's hope this is true. Otherwise, you're looking at a niche market in the future--much like SACD DVD-A.
You'll tell'em to buy the version that's cheapest or available. Contrary to popular belief, consumers don't have a problem with choice. They have a problem with too many choices.[
If we're talking about two potential choices it's either/or. That's easy for consumers.
And that is what I'm saying as well--that consumers have a problem with too many choices. But I think it is important that there are more choices in this high def arena than just either/or. It is more like...
Blu-ray?
HD DVD?
Blu-ray/HD DVD combo players?
Blu-ray/HD DVD THD discs?
(edit: As JLL pointed out even the choice of just sticking with DVD)
Quote:
Competition is natural
I don't disagree that competition is natural, but more often than not, having a clear, unified, format is what is best for a market in terms of video/audio--Vinyl records, Audio cassete, VHS, CDs, DVDs,...and hopefully a high def victor, IMO Blu-ray. I don't see what good having HD DVD stick around does, at least in the long term, as I see there prescence in the short term having a nice effect on driving down the price of next gen media on both sides. Outside of the short term though, I just see them causing the consumer confusion. That's my take on it anyways.
Samsung is facing a very uncertain future. As sources in the media have noted, they're between a rock and a hard place. They don't innovate as well as their Japanese neighbors do and they're being squeezed by the increasingly high quality manufacturing of their Chinese neighbors. If they can't invent and they can't produce, there's nothing left. The South Korean government is already worried.
Personally, I'd love for Samsung to go kaput. I've said before that I have no intention of buying any product from that crooked company ever again.
Why do you repeat and twist to my post? I think your comments are just a repeat of my statement in bold with twisted facts:
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitemymac
Well... having the universal player option gives consumers more power and choice to find cheaper and better product. Only fanboys would like to see their supporting side to win only and none else to succeed.
You can also see what had happened with hidef audio (SACD vs. DVD-A) market. Even if the software part did not make an impression with J6P due to cost involved to have the system to hear the difference, but the universal hardware had won among the enthusiasts community. Now, you can find an universal audio/video player as cheap as about $80 to as high as $3K+.
Same would also happen with HiDef video market but would probably make bigger impact than the audio market. It's easier/cheaper to see the visual difference than hearing the difference with a given audio system. All one needs is HDTV and HiDef format player. However, in order to get universal hardware to succeed, the price has to come down fast to the $199 level and help J6P to start buying HiDef content movies. Anyway, the current LG universal player is very foully marketed at $1200 MSRP. I'd rather own two separate players than getting the over priced universal unit.
All in all, getting more universal player option is good for the consumers once the price comes down. We shall see $80 universal HiDef players at walmart in not so remote future. When this happens, it's a win/win situation for consumers and the HiDef market as a whole.
and you replied:
Quote:
Originally Posted by marzetta7
And only fanboys will think that the universal players are our answer for cheaper and better product. Last time I checked the LG combo is running at $1,200. I expect more of the same from this Samsung Universal player.
The problem here though is that the universal hardware didn't win among the masses,...is this really where we want the high def market going as well? Who cares about the enthusiasts community. If you want a format to be truly successful, it most get past the simple enthusiast community and be embraced by the mass consumer.
Hmm, I see. But I'm afraid there will be a clear winner In my opinion by the time universal hardware comes down to $80. For the high def market sakes, let's hope this is true. Otherwise, you're looking at a niche market in the future--much like SACD DVD-A.
Samsung is facing a very uncertain future. As sources in the media have noted, they're between a rock and a hard place. They don't innovate as well as their Japanese neighbors do and they're being squeezed by the increasingly high quality manufacturing of their Chinese neighbors. If they can't invent and they can't produce, there's nothing left. The South Korean government is already worried.
Personally, I'd love for Samsung to go kaput. I've said before that I have no intention of buying any product from that crooked company ever again.
is this a personal statement or do you have the link to the worrying government? BTW, no innovation in LCD/OLED/LED market? I would think more of display products will be sold than the optical drive products......
Why do you repeat and twist to my post? I think your comments are just a repeat of my statement in bold with twisted facts:
and you replied:
Just read my post again.
By no means am I trying to twist, but find your two paragraphs in contradiction, as we all well know the universal hardware is more expensive, and yet you claim with universal players we will have cheaper and better product. Perhaps, I'm interpreting your first paragraph incorrectly. Are you stating that with universal players in the mix, this will cause players of all types to go down? Is that what you mean? Please clarify.
By no means am I trying to twist, but find your two paragraphs in contradiction, as we all well know the universal hardware is more expensive, and yet you claim with universal players we will have cheaper and better product. Perhaps, I'm interpreting your first paragraph incorrectly. Are you stating that with universal players in the mix, this will cause players of all types to go down? Is that what you mean? Please clarify.
Thanks.
By no means, the universal players at this time are priced outrageously. However, it's only the beginning of HD movie market and within few years the price has no where to go but down. Don't forget that it took about good 3 years for J6P to get involved in DVD market and where the hardware price was hitting right around $199. So, in next two more years we would definitely see hardware prices hitting $199 and below. The HD-DVD hardware is already hitting the street price at $299, so the price drop will occur sooner than how DVD market succeeded.
As for the universal audio players, these models did start at a lot higher prices because the consumers buying these universal players were audio enthusiasts at the time. There are still many/most consumers today who has no idea what SACD/DVD-A is...... Therefore, most hardwares were high end equipments to start off, but they always had cheaper models right around $200 to $300 made by Samsung, pioneer, and etc. I did pay almost $1k for Denon 2900 being audio enthusiast, but I also still have a cheaper universal player that I payed about $150. The bottom line is that once the market matures a little, the price will come down by the time J6P is ready or are the J6P ready because the price had come down? However the case maybe, by the time J6P finds one of these universal HiDef players at walmart, the price will be around $199 and below within next two years.
is this a personal statement or do you have the link to the worrying government? BTW, no innovation in LCD/OLED/LED market? I would think more of display products will be sold than the optical drive products......
If you ever bothered to read any newspapers in the past few months, you would have known that, but no, you just want to be combative. And just where is their LCD innovation? LED backlights, big whoop -- like that took a genius to figure out. They're manufacturers, not researchers. They take what others develop and apply it. No originality. For that matter, where's the innovative OLED market? We've been hearing about how great OLEDs are for how long now? Where is it? Why isn't it on any laptops? If they're so innovative in the LED market, why are the best LEDs made by Nichia, Luxeon and Cree? It's pretty obvious that you just see somebody upscaling things and immediately think "Oh, they're innovating." Where were they in the development of either HD disk format? Oh, that's right, it was the Japanese. For that matter, where were they in the development of DVDs? Where is their innovation in hard drives, where Western Digital, Seagate, and Hitachi still make the fastest, highest capacity drives?
If you ever bothered to read any newspapers in the past few months, you would have known that, but no, you just want to be combative. And just where is their LCD innovation? LED backlights, big whoop -- like that took a genius to figure out. They're manufacturers, not researchers. They take what others develop and apply it. No originality. For that matter, where's the innovative OLED market? We've been hearing about how great OLEDs are for how long now? Where is it? Why isn't it on any laptops? If they're so innovative in the LED market, why are the best LEDs made by Nichia, Luxeon and Cree? It's pretty obvious that you just see somebody upscaling things and immediately think "Oh, they're innovating." Where were they in the development of either HD disk format? Oh, that's right, it was the Japanese. For that matter, where were they in the development of DVDs? Where is their innovation in hard drives, where Western Digital, Seagate, and Hitachi still make the fastest, highest capacity drives?
hmm... sounds like you have a lot of issues..... talk about being combative....
Hell you're already paying a mint for obsolete BD players you may as well get full HD movie support for a couple hundred more.
I see price is only an issue when HD DVD is involved.
The reason universals will fail though isn't due to price..it's because there is no way you'll see two competing formats from the studios. One will win. You're not going to see them support both in the long term. Oh, and those prices you have are deceptive. Blu-Ray players are as low as $499 now .
Comments
Any word on retail price for the Duo HD?
Call me crazy, but I think it's just so much easier to have a single format, just like I can currently tell people, "Go buy the DVD" or even "Go buy the videocassette" and they'd know exactly what I was talking about. Although even then, there's the problem of which edition should they buy -- the standard edition, the special edition, the extreme edition, the ultimate edition, the 25th anniversary edition...
Clears up confusion for me. Whenever people talk to me about HD formats I'll be able to say "Just get a universal player and don't worry about it. You'll be able to play any disc on the shelf."
Any word on retail price for the Duo HD?
Well... having the universal player option gives consumers more power and choice to find cheaper and better product. Only fanboys would like to see their supporting side to win only and none else to succeed.
You can also see what had happened with hidef audio (SACD vs. DVD-A) market. Even if the software part did not make an impression with J6P due to cost involved to have the system to hear the difference, but the universal hardware had won among the enthusiasts community. Now, you can find an universal audio/video player as cheap as about $80 to as high as $3K+.
Same would also happen with HiDef video market but would probably make bigger impact than the audio market. It's easier/cheaper to see the visual difference than hearing the difference with a given audio system. All one needs is HDTV and HiDef format player. However, in order to get universal hardware to succeed, the price has to come down fast to the $199 level and help J6P to start buying HiDef content movies. Anyway, the current LG universal player is very foully marketed at $1200 MSRP. I'd rather own two separate players than getting the over priced universal unit.
All in all, getting more universal player option is good for the consumers once the price comes down. We shall see $80 universal HiDef players at walmart in not so remote future. When this happens, it's a win/win situation for consumers and the HiDef market as a whole.
You'll tell'em to buy the version that's cheapest or available. Contrary to popular belief, consumers don't have a problem with choice. They have a problem with too many choices.
If we're talking about two potential choices it's either/or. That's easy for consumers.
These players will still be expensive, $1000 but 2nd and 3rd generation players ought to do fine. One format would have been keen but you're rarely ever see a new technology that comes out in one format. Everyone you look there is contention.
Laserdisc vs CED
DVD vs DiVX
DVD+r vs DVD-r
DisplayPort vs UDI
Mac vs PC
Beta vs VHS
Competition is natural
Horses Mouth. As official as it gets. This is Blu-ray's "Appomattox" potentially. Samsung is influential.
Samsung have talked about combo players for almost two years know - it's not like they have been 100% Blu-ray supporters.
Easy
You'll tell'em to buy the version that's cheapest or available. Contrary to popular belief, consumers don't have a problem with choice. They have a problem with too many choices.
If we're talking about two potential choices it's either/or. That's easy for consumers.
The problem is that the two choices are DVD vs. HD, and as long as the HD crowd can't agree about one format, they can't win.
There are only two options: One format wins or all players will be combo players.
As long as there is a mix, neutral studios will have to continue being neutral and that's an extra cost no matter what.
Clears up confusion for me. Whenever people talk to me about HD formats I'll be able to say "Just get a universal player and don't worry about it. You'll be able to play any disc on the shelf."
That might be fine for consumers but retailers really won't be too fond of duplication of items in BD and HD-DVD. It takes up more shelf space than it's often worth. I'm sure they'd prefer a victor.
Well... having the universal player option gives consumers more power and choice to find cheaper and better product. Only fanboys would like to see their supporting side to win only and none else to succeed.
And only fanboys will think that the universal players are our answer for cheaper and better product. Last time I checked the LG combo is running at $1,200. I expect more of the same from this Samsung Universal player.
You can also see what had happened with hidef audio (SACD vs. DVD-A) market. Even if the software part did not make an impression with J6P due to cost involved to have the system to hear the difference, but the universal hardware had won among the enthusiasts community. Now, you can find an universal audio/video player as cheap as about $80 to as high as $3K+.
The problem here though is that the universal hardware didn't win among the masses,...is this really where we want the high def market going as well? Who cares about the enthusiasts community. If you want a format to be truly successful, it most get past the simple enthusiast community and be embraced by the mass consumer.
All in all, getting more universal player option is good for the consumers once the price comes down. We shall see $80 universal HiDef players at walmart in not so remote future. When this happens, it's a win/win situation for consumers and the HiDef market as a whole.
Hmm, I see. But I'm afraid there will be a clear winner In my opinion by the time universal hardware comes down to $80. For the high def market sakes, let's hope this is true. Otherwise, you're looking at a niche market in the future--much like SACD DVD-A.
Easy
You'll tell'em to buy the version that's cheapest or available. Contrary to popular belief, consumers don't have a problem with choice. They have a problem with too many choices.[
If we're talking about two potential choices it's either/or. That's easy for consumers.
And that is what I'm saying as well--that consumers have a problem with too many choices. But I think it is important that there are more choices in this high def arena than just either/or. It is more like...
Blu-ray?
HD DVD?
Blu-ray/HD DVD combo players?
Blu-ray/HD DVD THD discs?
(edit: As JLL pointed out even the choice of just sticking with DVD)
Competition is natural
I don't disagree that competition is natural, but more often than not, having a clear, unified, format is what is best for a market in terms of video/audio--Vinyl records, Audio cassete, VHS, CDs, DVDs,...and hopefully a high def victor, IMO Blu-ray. I don't see what good having HD DVD stick around does, at least in the long term, as I see there prescence in the short term having a nice effect on driving down the price of next gen media on both sides. Outside of the short term though, I just see them causing the consumer confusion. That's my take on it anyways.
Samsung is influential.
Samsung is facing a very uncertain future. As sources in the media have noted, they're between a rock and a hard place. They don't innovate as well as their Japanese neighbors do and they're being squeezed by the increasingly high quality manufacturing of their Chinese neighbors. If they can't invent and they can't produce, there's nothing left. The South Korean government is already worried.
Personally, I'd love for Samsung to go kaput. I've said before that I have no intention of buying any product from that crooked company ever again.
Well... having the universal player option gives consumers more power and choice to find cheaper and better product. Only fanboys would like to see their supporting side to win only and none else to succeed.
You can also see what had happened with hidef audio (SACD vs. DVD-A) market. Even if the software part did not make an impression with J6P due to cost involved to have the system to hear the difference, but the universal hardware had won among the enthusiasts community. Now, you can find an universal audio/video player as cheap as about $80 to as high as $3K+.
Same would also happen with HiDef video market but would probably make bigger impact than the audio market. It's easier/cheaper to see the visual difference than hearing the difference with a given audio system. All one needs is HDTV and HiDef format player. However, in order to get universal hardware to succeed, the price has to come down fast to the $199 level and help J6P to start buying HiDef content movies. Anyway, the current LG universal player is very foully marketed at $1200 MSRP. I'd rather own two separate players than getting the over priced universal unit.
All in all, getting more universal player option is good for the consumers once the price comes down. We shall see $80 universal HiDef players at walmart in not so remote future. When this happens, it's a win/win situation for consumers and the HiDef market as a whole.
and you replied:
And only fanboys will think that the universal players are our answer for cheaper and better product. Last time I checked the LG combo is running at $1,200. I expect more of the same from this Samsung Universal player.
The problem here though is that the universal hardware didn't win among the masses,...is this really where we want the high def market going as well? Who cares about the enthusiasts community. If you want a format to be truly successful, it most get past the simple enthusiast community and be embraced by the mass consumer.
Hmm, I see. But I'm afraid there will be a clear winner In my opinion by the time universal hardware comes down to $80. For the high def market sakes, let's hope this is true. Otherwise, you're looking at a niche market in the future--much like SACD DVD-A.
Just read my post again.
Samsung is facing a very uncertain future. As sources in the media have noted, they're between a rock and a hard place. They don't innovate as well as their Japanese neighbors do and they're being squeezed by the increasingly high quality manufacturing of their Chinese neighbors. If they can't invent and they can't produce, there's nothing left. The South Korean government is already worried.
Personally, I'd love for Samsung to go kaput. I've said before that I have no intention of buying any product from that crooked company ever again.
is this a personal statement or do you have the link to the worrying government? BTW, no innovation in LCD/OLED/LED market? I would think more of display products will be sold than the optical drive products......
Why do you repeat and twist to my post? I think your comments are just a repeat of my statement in bold with twisted facts:
and you replied:
Just read my post again.
By no means am I trying to twist, but find your two paragraphs in contradiction, as we all well know the universal hardware is more expensive, and yet you claim with universal players we will have cheaper and better product. Perhaps, I'm interpreting your first paragraph incorrectly. Are you stating that with universal players in the mix, this will cause players of all types to go down? Is that what you mean? Please clarify.
Thanks.
By no means am I trying to twist, but find your two paragraphs in contradiction, as we all well know the universal hardware is more expensive, and yet you claim with universal players we will have cheaper and better product. Perhaps, I'm interpreting your first paragraph incorrectly. Are you stating that with universal players in the mix, this will cause players of all types to go down? Is that what you mean? Please clarify.
Thanks.
By no means, the universal players at this time are priced outrageously. However, it's only the beginning of HD movie market and within few years the price has no where to go but down. Don't forget that it took about good 3 years for J6P to get involved in DVD market and where the hardware price was hitting right around $199. So, in next two more years we would definitely see hardware prices hitting $199 and below. The HD-DVD hardware is already hitting the street price at $299, so the price drop will occur sooner than how DVD market succeeded.
As for the universal audio players, these models did start at a lot higher prices because the consumers buying these universal players were audio enthusiasts at the time. There are still many/most consumers today who has no idea what SACD/DVD-A is...... Therefore, most hardwares were high end equipments to start off, but they always had cheaper models right around $200 to $300 made by Samsung, pioneer, and etc. I did pay almost $1k for Denon 2900 being audio enthusiast, but I also still have a cheaper universal player that I payed about $150. The bottom line is that once the market matures a little, the price will come down by the time J6P is ready or are the J6P ready because the price had come down? However the case maybe, by the time J6P finds one of these universal HiDef players at walmart, the price will be around $199 and below within next two years.
Samsung goes neutral and suddenly price becomes an issue?
Panasonic BD Player $1099
Sony BD Player $750
Hell you're already paying a mint for obsolete BD players you may as well get full HD movie support for a couple hundred more.
I see price is only an issue when HD DVD is involved.
is this a personal statement or do you have the link to the worrying government? BTW, no innovation in LCD/OLED/LED market? I would think more of display products will be sold than the optical drive products......
If you ever bothered to read any newspapers in the past few months, you would have known that, but no, you just want to be combative. And just where is their LCD innovation? LED backlights, big whoop -- like that took a genius to figure out. They're manufacturers, not researchers. They take what others develop and apply it. No originality. For that matter, where's the innovative OLED market? We've been hearing about how great OLEDs are for how long now? Where is it? Why isn't it on any laptops? If they're so innovative in the LED market, why are the best LEDs made by Nichia, Luxeon and Cree? It's pretty obvious that you just see somebody upscaling things and immediately think "Oh, they're innovating." Where were they in the development of either HD disk format? Oh, that's right, it was the Japanese. For that matter, where were they in the development of DVDs? Where is their innovation in hard drives, where Western Digital, Seagate, and Hitachi still make the fastest, highest capacity drives?
If you ever bothered to read any newspapers in the past few months, you would have known that, but no, you just want to be combative. And just where is their LCD innovation? LED backlights, big whoop -- like that took a genius to figure out. They're manufacturers, not researchers. They take what others develop and apply it. No originality. For that matter, where's the innovative OLED market? We've been hearing about how great OLEDs are for how long now? Where is it? Why isn't it on any laptops? If they're so innovative in the LED market, why are the best LEDs made by Nichia, Luxeon and Cree? It's pretty obvious that you just see somebody upscaling things and immediately think "Oh, they're innovating." Where were they in the development of either HD disk format? Oh, that's right, it was the Japanese. For that matter, where were they in the development of DVDs? Where is their innovation in hard drives, where Western Digital, Seagate, and Hitachi still make the fastest, highest capacity drives?
hmm... sounds like you have a lot of issues..... talk about being combative....
Some of you Blu-ray make no sense.
Samsung goes neutral and suddenly price becomes an issue?
Says who? Marzetta just said that combo players are less likely to get cheaper than single format players.
Some of you Blu-ray make no sense.
Samsung goes neutral and suddenly price becomes an issue?
Panasonic BD Player $1099
Sony BD Player $750
Hell you're already paying a mint for obsolete BD players you may as well get full HD movie support for a couple hundred more.
I see price is only an issue when HD DVD is involved.
The reason universals will fail though isn't due to price..it's because there is no way you'll see two competing formats from the studios. One will win. You're not going to see them support both in the long term. Oh, and those prices you have are deceptive. Blu-Ray players are as low as $499 now .
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...bluraycom0b-20