does anyone think they borrowed some of the 3D engine stuff from Pixar? Is that even possible?
Probably not. Pixar and Apple share a CEO but that doesn't mean they'd share code as freely.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neruda
Camera stabilization and the Color node-like approach are both derived from Shake. I can't wait until the successor to Shake is released. Shake's interface is not exactly the most intuitive..
The smoothcam looks even easier to use in FCP6 than in Shake. I'm sure the Shake version probably has more control but damn. Nice job Apple. I have high hopes for Phenomenon ..I hope it's ready by NAB 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell
Final Cut Server is coming from Apple's acquisition of Proximity Corporation and Color comes from the acquisition of Silicon Color.
FC Server was needed to compete with Avid's Unity. Proximity has an impressive client base of 150 broadcasters. That does give Apple Server a great head start.
Color is what looks most exciting for me and what I do. Unfortunately I'm not at NAB this year to test it out.
I also wish I were there to ask about RED. Apple confirms that it supports REDCODE, which is Red's codec. But they don't explicitly say if and how FCP supports 4K.
Yeah I'm thinking 4K work "must" be ProRes 422. I've downloaded all the docs I can on Apple Sales web and if there's any clarification I'll update.
Oh yeah Soundtrack Pro rocks. Now I needs a 5.1 monitoring system.
Blue Sky?
Also of note. FXplug isn't just a scripting enviroment anymore. It's a full fledged GPU enabled plugin architecture. We're going to see some really cool stuff for this now that developers can tape into the GPU through FCP
Color ....you can tell Apple "quickly" integrated Color into FCS. It's widgets and UI still smack of Silicon Color. I'm sure Apple squashed some bugs which vexed owners and it's going to be solid but watch out for the next version where Apple engineers get some time to work on it.
But for christ sake , where's our GPU ?!?! My Mac Pro is dying with 7300GT. It's joke of a card for $4k machine. Motion/Color/and now parts of Final Cut pro are offloaded to GPU yet Mac's have day before yesterday's GPU's in their best computers. I dont know what to say anymore.
Same here. Why are there no 8800GTS/GTX, or even a 1950XTX for the Mac Pro...? It can't be that hard to put an EFI Rom on one of those.
I really hope that we'll see the upcoming ATI Generation (R600) for the Mac Pros soon. Aperture and FC would benefit greatly.
This is a fantastic update. Multiple res and format on the timeline is a huge timesaver. My only real complaints about FCP up to now have been bugs rather than functionality so hopefully they will have been addressed.
Motion 3 looks superb. 3D manipulation in AE can be a pain, it looks as if M3 should provide a smoother more intuitive workflow. Yes there is now wiggle and all that stuff.
Soundtrack is starting to look like a professional piece that I could actually use rather than having go the Digital Performer/Logic/ProTools route. It SO needed the easy crossfade function.
The inclusion of Color for 'free', a $25.000 piece of software last time it was on the market, is truly astonishing. There is NOTHING on the market that can compete at this level and many smart people will be buying FCS and an OctoMac just for this. Amazing.
NB.
ProRes422 is not a proxy format by the way, its an 8 or 10bit intermediate. With the AJA hardware in and out there should be no need for further on-line conforming.
If anybody DOESN'T think that the RED camera is going to take over the film world then they really haven't been paying attention.
Same here. Why are there no 8800GTS/GTX, or even a 1950XTX for the Mac Pro...? It can't be that hard to put an EFI Rom on one of those.
I really hope that we'll see the upcoming ATI Generation (R600) for the Mac Pros soon. Aperture and FC would benefit greatly.
It isn't difficult. Apple decides what we need, and they provide that.
Many of us don't agree with Apple's choices, but tough. That's what comes from selling only a few open boxes. Other manufacturers simply aren't interested in producing cards for it. Even ATI, who has been Apple's biggest supporter over the years, has given up recently. Hopefully with CS3, and Apple's new software, enough machines will be sold for that to change, but don't wait for it.
Anyone with experience in AfterEffects have any impressions on the Motion update? My initial impression is: improved, but still needs improving to really compete w/AE.
Anyone with experience in AfterEffects have any impressions on the Motion update? My initial impression is: improved, but still needs improving to really compete w/AE.
Motion 3 seems to be encroching more into AE's field, but without actually using it, it's hard to tell just how far. Motions advantages have been with working with feel, AE's advantages have been with with precision. I wouldn't be surprised to see both converging more and more.
Final cut server fills a much needed void in the editing world! Places that have many editing stations have been dying for a proper way to unite their bays, this is very smart and great timing.
FCP studio is friggin beautiful, I'm so impressed with everything, but one thing is for home use it looks like my 15" mbp can't run colour? wtf? I figure it'll probably work anyways but apple just won't advertise as such, at least I hope, because colour is all kinds of crazy useful to me.
Any ideas if the NAB Apple event video will be posted to Apple.com today? I'm really looking forward to seeing it... almost as much as the iPhone keynote video.
If anybody DOESN'T think that the RED camera is going to take over the film world then they really haven't been paying attention.
Yeah RED is exciting and all but people are getting unrealistically over excited about owning it. Yes it's cheap for what you get, but how many pros actually own a varicam or their own XDCAM? Most people owning a 20,000 - 25,000 camera makes no sense. The people that can and should buy it will, but already the waiting list is making people that preorder not even get one until a year after it ships, and that's if you ordered already.
Imo the best thing about RED isn't the price to own, it'll be the price to rent, you should be able to get 2 weeks for like 2-3 grand. At that price that's awesome, much better than the crack talk most people on the internet are like: "I now own an HVX and my next camera will be a RED!"
I mean like wtf, if you own an HVX, RED is a ridiculous step up in price and features, if you were happy with any of the 10k and down cameras, personally owning RED should make next to no sense.
If anybody DOESN'T think that the RED camera is going to take over the film world then they really haven't been paying attention.
Cameras have been launched for the past 7 years where this same claim has been made every year.
The problem with this assertion is that in real world production no one camera fits all situations. When shooting film, productions are typically using 3 or 4 different types of cameras. Because they all have different advantages and abilities.
Productions that only shoot digital are giving up some advantages that are gained with shooting film. In reality the one area where digital cameras are making a major inroads into movie production is in visual effects. VFX people prefer to work with digital images, and the rest of the movie is typically shot on film.
ProRes422 is not a proxy format by the way, its an 8 or 10bit intermediate. With the AJA hardware in and out there should be no need for further on-line conforming.
A proxy and an intermediate would basically be the same thing. It looks as though you are pointing out that ProRes422 is a video format in of itself.
But if the intent is to finish with uncompressed 4:4:4 HD ProRes422 can be used as a proxy.
Cameras have been launched for the past 7 years where this same claim has been made every year.
The problem with this assertion is that in real world production no one camera fits all situations. When shooting film, productions are typically using 3 or 4 different types of cameras. Because they all have different advantages and abilities.
Productions that only shoot digital are giving up some advantages that are gained with shooting film. In reality the one area where digital cameras are making a major inroads into movie production is in visual effects. VFX people prefer to work with digital images, and the rest of the movie is typically shot on film.
Yeah RED is exciting and all but people are getting unrealistically over excited about owning it. Yes it's cheap for what you get, but how many pros actually own a varicam or their own XDCAM? Most people owning a 20,000 - 25,000 camera makes no sense. The people that can and should buy it will, but already the waiting list is making people that preorder not even get one until a year after it ships, and that's if you ordered already.
Imo the best thing about RED isn't the price to own, it'll be the price to rent, you should be able to get 2 weeks for like 2-3 grand. At that price that's awesome, much better than the crack talk most people on the internet are like: "I now own an HVX and my next camera will be a RED!"
I mean like wtf, if you own an HVX, RED is a ridiculous step up in price and features, if you were happy with any of the 10k and down cameras, personally owning RED should make next to no sense.
Its a film camera replacement. Many, many DP's own their own cameras and many have placed (multiple) orders for RED. Who is forcing you to buy one? Do what you like.
A proxy and an intermediate are not the same thing as you well know.
They don't mean exactly the same thing but both terms imply a state between the raw material and finished product.
Quote:
Its a film camera replacement. Many, many DP's own their own cameras and many have placed (multiple) orders for RED.
As I described above there isn't really one type of film camera. There are different cameras that perform different tasks and RED does not in any way replace them all.
DP's that shoot Hollywood movies don't own their own cameras, because you don't use one type of camera for everything.
Its mostly in the video world where people actually own their own equipment and would more than likely be the customer base for RED.
does anyone think they borrowed some of the 3D engine stuff from Pixar? Is that even possible?
Pixar uses software rendering engines. The 3D stuff here is hardware accelerated. I noticed some stuff from Shake as mentioned already.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neruda
Camera stabilization and the Color node-like approach are both derived from Shake. I can't wait until the successor to Shake is released. Shake's interface is not exactly the most intuitive..
I have a feeling they are gearing up for some hardware accelerated software, which I wouldn't like at all given that Apple's GPU offerings are mostly below par again as other people have said. It really doesn't make sense, push as much as possible onto the graphics card and then sell machines that choke under the load. It's just silly because it makes the software worthless. Shake in its current incarnation will run on old G4s and even G3s at a push but Motion won't even run on Apple's brand new low end machines.
I'm not against the move towards what is clearly faster rendering - I recently did that effect they show in the video with the rays coming from behind objects in Shake and it's certainly not real-time - I just think they need to step up the GPU support. They should be putting X1600 in the low end, 7600GT in the mid end and X1900XT in the high end by default.
I actually love Shake's interface though, I find most other software unintuitive. Shake does need some improvements though. It seems to slow down quite easily and can get hung up at the simplest thing. I'm actually scared to hit undo a lot of the time because it's so unpredictable. The caching isn't all that good IMO either. I read a lot of articles saying Nuke's caching is much better - I'm sure a lot of those articles are from fanboys but I know Shake's needs improving. And still no particle generator but they put one in Final Cut 6.
It looks to me like they are breaking Shake down piece by piece and dropping bits in here and there between FCP and Motion and using hardware acceleration where they can. If this is the case, I probably won't be too happy because like I say, I actually like the way Shake works and I hate the way Motion works. The first version of Motion I used was terrible, very unstable, simplistic/under-powered - it felt like it should have been in the ilife bundle - and the unique transform setup it has didn't make much sense to me at all (throw/catch etc).
Comments
Ah! For my old Arri 16Bl Quartz with Nagra. Nothing like having an assistant follow you around with a recorder.
Then having to resolve 1/4" to mag, editing on a flatbed, mixing down from selsyn locked dubbers.....
Good times.
Then having to resolve 1/4" to mag, editing on a flatbed, mixing down from selsyn locked dubbers.....
Good times.
Yeah. And wouldn't you know, after I sold it in '86, a friend wanted to do a documentary, and he figured as I had the camera...
I have been watching the videos. THIS IS AMAZING!
does anyone think they borrowed some of the 3D engine stuff from Pixar? Is that even possible?
Probably not. Pixar and Apple share a CEO but that doesn't mean they'd share code as freely.
Camera stabilization and the Color node-like approach are both derived from Shake. I can't wait until the successor to Shake is released. Shake's interface is not exactly the most intuitive..
The smoothcam looks even easier to use in FCP6 than in Shake. I'm sure the Shake version probably has more control but damn. Nice job Apple. I have high hopes for Phenomenon ..I hope it's ready by NAB 2008
Final Cut Server is coming from Apple's acquisition of Proximity Corporation and Color comes from the acquisition of Silicon Color.
FC Server was needed to compete with Avid's Unity. Proximity has an impressive client base of 150 broadcasters. That does give Apple Server a great head start.
Color is what looks most exciting for me and what I do. Unfortunately I'm not at NAB this year to test it out.
I also wish I were there to ask about RED. Apple confirms that it supports REDCODE, which is Red's codec. But they don't explicitly say if and how FCP supports 4K.
Yeah I'm thinking 4K work "must" be ProRes 422. I've downloaded all the docs I can on Apple Sales web and if there's any clarification I'll update.
Oh yeah Soundtrack Pro rocks. Now I needs a 5.1 monitoring system.
Blue Sky?
Also of note. FXplug isn't just a scripting enviroment anymore. It's a full fledged GPU enabled plugin architecture. We're going to see some really cool stuff for this now that developers can tape into the GPU through FCP
Color ....you can tell Apple "quickly" integrated Color into FCS. It's widgets and UI still smack of Silicon Color. I'm sure Apple squashed some bugs which vexed owners and it's going to be solid but watch out for the next version where Apple engineers get some time to work on it.
But for christ sake , where's our GPU ?!?! My Mac Pro is dying with 7300GT. It's joke of a card for $4k machine. Motion/Color/and now parts of Final Cut pro are offloaded to GPU yet Mac's have day before yesterday's GPU's in their best computers. I dont know what to say anymore.
Same here. Why are there no 8800GTS/GTX, or even a 1950XTX for the Mac Pro...? It can't be that hard to put an EFI Rom on one of those.
I really hope that we'll see the upcoming ATI Generation (R600) for the Mac Pros soon. Aperture and FC would benefit greatly.
Motion 3 looks superb. 3D manipulation in AE can be a pain, it looks as if M3 should provide a smoother more intuitive workflow. Yes there is now wiggle and all that stuff.
Soundtrack is starting to look like a professional piece that I could actually use rather than having go the Digital Performer/Logic/ProTools route. It SO needed the easy crossfade function.
The inclusion of Color for 'free', a $25.000 piece of software last time it was on the market, is truly astonishing. There is NOTHING on the market that can compete at this level and many smart people will be buying FCS and an OctoMac just for this. Amazing.
NB.
ProRes422 is not a proxy format by the way, its an 8 or 10bit intermediate. With the AJA hardware in and out there should be no need for further on-line conforming.
If anybody DOESN'T think that the RED camera is going to take over the film world then they really haven't been paying attention.
I was hoping for BluRay support in DVD Studio. DVD Studio supports HD-DVD but not BluRay.
BluRay burners are available but DVD Studio doesn't support them.
Same here. Why are there no 8800GTS/GTX, or even a 1950XTX for the Mac Pro...? It can't be that hard to put an EFI Rom on one of those.
I really hope that we'll see the upcoming ATI Generation (R600) for the Mac Pros soon. Aperture and FC would benefit greatly.
It isn't difficult. Apple decides what we need, and they provide that.
Many of us don't agree with Apple's choices, but tough. That's what comes from selling only a few open boxes. Other manufacturers simply aren't interested in producing cards for it. Even ATI, who has been Apple's biggest supporter over the years, has given up recently. Hopefully with CS3, and Apple's new software, enough machines will be sold for that to change, but don't wait for it.
Anyone with experience in AfterEffects have any impressions on the Motion update? My initial impression is: improved, but still needs improving to really compete w/AE.
Motion 3 seems to be encroching more into AE's field, but without actually using it, it's hard to tell just how far. Motions advantages have been with working with feel, AE's advantages have been with with precision. I wouldn't be surprised to see both converging more and more.
FCP studio is friggin beautiful, I'm so impressed with everything, but one thing is for home use it looks like my 15" mbp can't run colour? wtf? I figure it'll probably work anyways but apple just won't advertise as such, at least I hope, because colour is all kinds of crazy useful to me.
If anybody DOESN'T think that the RED camera is going to take over the film world then they really haven't been paying attention.
Yeah RED is exciting and all but people are getting unrealistically over excited about owning it. Yes it's cheap for what you get, but how many pros actually own a varicam or their own XDCAM? Most people owning a 20,000 - 25,000 camera makes no sense. The people that can and should buy it will, but already the waiting list is making people that preorder not even get one until a year after it ships, and that's if you ordered already.
Imo the best thing about RED isn't the price to own, it'll be the price to rent, you should be able to get 2 weeks for like 2-3 grand. At that price that's awesome, much better than the crack talk most people on the internet are like: "I now own an HVX and my next camera will be a RED!"
I mean like wtf, if you own an HVX, RED is a ridiculous step up in price and features, if you were happy with any of the 10k and down cameras, personally owning RED should make next to no sense.
If anybody DOESN'T think that the RED camera is going to take over the film world then they really haven't been paying attention.
Cameras have been launched for the past 7 years where this same claim has been made every year.
The problem with this assertion is that in real world production no one camera fits all situations. When shooting film, productions are typically using 3 or 4 different types of cameras. Because they all have different advantages and abilities.
Productions that only shoot digital are giving up some advantages that are gained with shooting film. In reality the one area where digital cameras are making a major inroads into movie production is in visual effects. VFX people prefer to work with digital images, and the rest of the movie is typically shot on film.
ProRes422 is not a proxy format by the way, its an 8 or 10bit intermediate. With the AJA hardware in and out there should be no need for further on-line conforming.
A proxy and an intermediate would basically be the same thing. It looks as though you are pointing out that ProRes422 is a video format in of itself.
But if the intent is to finish with uncompressed 4:4:4 HD ProRes422 can be used as a proxy.
A proxy and an intermediate would basically be the same thing. It looks as though you are pointing out that ProRes422 is a video format in of itself.
But if the intent is to finish with uncompressed 4:4:4 HD ProRes422 can be used as a proxy.
A proxy and an intermediate are not the same thing as you well know.
Cameras have been launched for the past 7 years where this same claim has been made every year.
The problem with this assertion is that in real world production no one camera fits all situations. When shooting film, productions are typically using 3 or 4 different types of cameras. Because they all have different advantages and abilities.
Productions that only shoot digital are giving up some advantages that are gained with shooting film. In reality the one area where digital cameras are making a major inroads into movie production is in visual effects. VFX people prefer to work with digital images, and the rest of the movie is typically shot on film.
Nope. You're still not getting it.
Nope. You're still not getting it.
If you don't think he's getting it, explain it to us.
Yeah RED is exciting and all but people are getting unrealistically over excited about owning it. Yes it's cheap for what you get, but how many pros actually own a varicam or their own XDCAM? Most people owning a 20,000 - 25,000 camera makes no sense. The people that can and should buy it will, but already the waiting list is making people that preorder not even get one until a year after it ships, and that's if you ordered already.
Imo the best thing about RED isn't the price to own, it'll be the price to rent, you should be able to get 2 weeks for like 2-3 grand. At that price that's awesome, much better than the crack talk most people on the internet are like: "I now own an HVX and my next camera will be a RED!"
I mean like wtf, if you own an HVX, RED is a ridiculous step up in price and features, if you were happy with any of the 10k and down cameras, personally owning RED should make next to no sense.
Its a film camera replacement. Many, many DP's own their own cameras and many have placed (multiple) orders for RED. Who is forcing you to buy one? Do what you like.
A proxy and an intermediate are not the same thing as you well know.
They don't mean exactly the same thing but both terms imply a state between the raw material and finished product.
Its a film camera replacement. Many, many DP's own their own cameras and many have placed (multiple) orders for RED.
As I described above there isn't really one type of film camera. There are different cameras that perform different tasks and RED does not in any way replace them all.
DP's that shoot Hollywood movies don't own their own cameras, because you don't use one type of camera for everything.
Its mostly in the video world where people actually own their own equipment and would more than likely be the customer base for RED.
I have been watching the videos. THIS IS AMAZING!
does anyone think they borrowed some of the 3D engine stuff from Pixar? Is that even possible?
Pixar uses software rendering engines. The 3D stuff here is hardware accelerated. I noticed some stuff from Shake as mentioned already.
Camera stabilization and the Color node-like approach are both derived from Shake. I can't wait until the successor to Shake is released. Shake's interface is not exactly the most intuitive..
I have a feeling they are gearing up for some hardware accelerated software, which I wouldn't like at all given that Apple's GPU offerings are mostly below par again as other people have said. It really doesn't make sense, push as much as possible onto the graphics card and then sell machines that choke under the load. It's just silly because it makes the software worthless. Shake in its current incarnation will run on old G4s and even G3s at a push but Motion won't even run on Apple's brand new low end machines.
I'm not against the move towards what is clearly faster rendering - I recently did that effect they show in the video with the rays coming from behind objects in Shake and it's certainly not real-time - I just think they need to step up the GPU support. They should be putting X1600 in the low end, 7600GT in the mid end and X1900XT in the high end by default.
I actually love Shake's interface though, I find most other software unintuitive. Shake does need some improvements though. It seems to slow down quite easily and can get hung up at the simplest thing. I'm actually scared to hit undo a lot of the time because it's so unpredictable. The caching isn't all that good IMO either. I read a lot of articles saying Nuke's caching is much better - I'm sure a lot of those articles are from fanboys but I know Shake's needs improving. And still no particle generator but they put one in Final Cut 6.
It looks to me like they are breaking Shake down piece by piece and dropping bits in here and there between FCP and Motion and using hardware acceleration where they can. If this is the case, I probably won't be too happy because like I say, I actually like the way Shake works and I hate the way Motion works. The first version of Motion I used was terrible, very unstable, simplistic/under-powered - it felt like it should have been in the ilife bundle - and the unique transform setup it has didn't make much sense to me at all (throw/catch etc).