. . . don't you know it's desparate times for both hidef format against SD-DVD?
I doubt that statement. I suspect that no one is buying a SDTV anymore. Likely, SD is not even available except on the used market. Once people have an HDTV they will eventually want to watch HD movies.
However, I admit that SD-DVD is good enough on HDTV that it will slow down HD disc sales.
Something I posted back on 4/9 and got no response about. It was the last time you quoted Videoscan...
------
Something interesting I just read, but:
It would be interesting to know what VideoScan counts in their totals. Do they count brick and mortars? If so, which? Do they count online? If so, which?
It really is too early, and VideoScans own numbers are proof of this. When you are claiming a disk as selling 800 copies in your top 10...
------
And to add to that thought, Wal-Mart might be a huge player in the format war, but the Amazon sales charts don't show it, and neither does Videoscan. Hell, there is way too much data we DON'T know at this point to be claiming much of anything. And if a group of HD DVD proponents can change the charts by a 1 day buying spree, then I think it is WAY too early to claim victory either way. If a few people can move the charts, the sales volume for both formats must be pathetically low.
I agree. I totally agree if a site like Amazon can be swayed by a buying spree within a day, it is still quite early in terms of the maturation of the high-def market.
In terms of your question in regards to which stores participate in Nielsen/Videoscan numbers, I don't think this is public knowledge (I could be totally wrong so if some one can find this info, by all means) but it appears there are many B&M stores all over the country that do participate. This should help...
VideoScan and ACNielsen (a partnership since January 2000, and sister companies under the VNU banner since 2001) seamlessly integrate point-of-sale (POS) data collected by both companies to provide a comprehensive view of the VHS and DVD sell-through business.
VideoScan, a leader in video market research since 1993, manages the business on behalf of the partnership. With its strong history and relationships with studios and electronic/specialty retailers, VideoScan provides industry-wide expertise and perspective.
ACNielsen, the leader in data services to the consumer packaged goods industry, brings its powerful analytic capabilities and broad coverage of the discount mass, grocery and drug retailers to the partnership.
Together, VideoScan and ACNielsen are the acknowledged leader in consumer research for the VHS and DVD sell-through industry. The partnership between VideoScan and ACNielsen is known as Nielsen VideoScan.
Sell-through POS (consumer purchase) sales data are collected weekly from traditional channels of video distribution including mass merchants, audio/video and video specialty retailers, electronics outlets, grocery stores, drug stores, and some Internet sites. Nielsen VideoScan maintains this weekly POS data in one of the largest databases of VHS and DVD products in the country. Data is collected on more than 40,000 VHS items and 12,000 DVD items. Virtually every UPC code in sell-through release since 1993 can be found in our extensive database. Complete sales data in all retail channels are available as far back as January 1999 (however Wal*Mart data is included only through 7/28/01). Prior to January 1999, limited information is available in most channels going back to 1993.
Nielsen VideoScan's VHS and DVD sell-through data are made available through the Nielsen VideoScan web site and the ACNielsen NITRO data delivery system. Some of the types of reports we have available:
Title Reports with sales for each title categorized nationally, regionally (by DMA) and by retail channel.
Sales History Reports providing week-by-week title sales since 1999 or release date (if later).
Summary Reports providing industry overviews comparing sales from previous years as well as weekly comparisons to the prior year.
Market Share Reports giving annual and weekly market shares by distributor/label.
Top 100 Charts for numerous categories rank the top titles by unit sales. Charts are available for the current week's sales or for cumulative year-to-date sales. Prior year-end charts are also available. Chart categories include distributors and selected genres.
While most of our clients choose annual subscriptions, we also work with customers on a project-by-project basis. We can handle everything from sophisticated marketing and sales research and planning to simple one title sales ad-hoc requests.
So, in general, their numbers provide a more representative sample of the industry moreso than Amazon sales rankings solely.
And in speaking of a more representative sample, here are the week ending 4/15 format war results (Nielsen/VideoScan), clearly showing Blu-ray still showing a commanding lead...
Shares in Sony climbed to a five-year high on Friday after a newspaper predicted a sixfold increase in its profits for the current year.
Strong sales of the Playstation 3 could push Sony's pre-tax income to 400bn yen ($3.4bn; £1.7bn), a sharp increase on the 60bn yen expected for 2006.
Launching the next-generation console is expected to put a 200bn yen hole in Sony's finances.
Sony closed the session up 2.7% at 6,510 yen.
Demand
The world's second-largest electronics maker will also benefit from increased demand in its liquid crystal display (LCD) televisions in the US and European markets, according to the Nikkei business daily.
Analysts cited in the newspaper expected group sales in the year 2007-2008 would be up 6% to 8.7 trillion yen, boosted by a two-thirds increase in sales of LCD TVs to 10 million in 2007-2008.
A 67% rise in PS3 shipments to 10 million units, better semi-conductor production yields and cost-cutting should also boost the business, according to the newspaper.
LOL.... it spells strong support for the HD-DVD Zealots....... and this is the reason that it won't go away. Where's the support from BD zealots?... don't you know it's desparate times for both hidef format against SD-DVD?
The problem is zealots don't drive markets like mass media. The general consumers do and marketing budgets do wonders there.
As a general aside though it seems the market it flattening out somewhere around 60:40 or 65:35, which certainly isn't what I'd call crushing at this stage. I still see the problem being Toshiba lacks support and sorry hybrid players aren't that much help. At the end of the day the problem is still movie support and some big CE brands are BD exclusive.
And to add to that thought, Wal-Mart might be a huge player in the format war, but the Amazon sales charts don't show it, and neither does Videoscan.
I've wondered about this as well. I would imagine that Walmart would move much more of the HD-DVD product instead of Blu-Ray because it is the cheaper format (And that's Walmart's clientele.)
How do we judge format sales without including Walmart?
The problem is zealots don't drive markets like mass media. The general consumers do and marketing budgets do wonders there.
As a general aside though it seems the market it flattening out somewhere around 60:40 or 65:35, which certainly isn't what I'd call crushing at this stage. I still see the problem being Toshiba lacks support and sorry hybrid players aren't that much help. At the end of the day the problem is still movie support and some big CE brands are BD exclusive.
that will be true in few years when J6P is ready for the HiDef market. The HiDef market at the moment is being driven by zealots/enthusiasts. The entry price is too high at the moment and only the zealots can push the market for the time being but not by J6P. As for the market trend, it is still moving up and down for both hidef formats. BD may have started a good rush in the begining of the year 2007, but it's being turned flip flop as we speak. When it comes May, it will permenently flop for BD and will be kept that way until end of the year.
BTW, which CE brands do you consider to be a consumer brand for J6P?
Edited: corrected for Kolchak (replaced HD-DVD with BD in the last sentence).
LOL.... it spells strong support for the HD-DVD Zealots....... and this is the reason that it won't go away. Where's the support from BD zealots?... don't you know it's desparate times for both hidef format against SD-DVD?
Uh, you don't think it's desperate that the zealots feel the need for a "buying day" to show support for their format. They're not dumb, just polarized and pised off. They know their chosen format is losing and they want to "make a difference" by doing this. You don't see the same thing for Blu-Ray because the early adopters know their format is not in danger of losing the format war.
Disclaimer: I should remind you that while I do have a PS3, I am no Blu-Ray zealot myself. I'd like to see it win just because that's what I have now, but it's no skin off my back if HD-DVD takes over. Of course, I do enjoy watching the HD-DVD fanatics frantically defend their format!
I disagree with your last statement. I think the process just takes a long time. Prices have to come down before hidef takes over. It was the same with HDTVs. 5 years ago plasma sets started at almost seven grand. Now that same set with better specs is $1600. We're still in early adopter land. No worries.
I doubt that statement. I suspect that no one is buying a SDTV anymore. Likely, SD is not even available except on the used market. Once people have an HDTV they will eventually want to watch HD movies.
However, I admit that SD-DVD is good enough on HDTV that it will slow down HD disc sales.
I think you're right though that sales must be slow. Anyone who is going to spend over $500 is going to get an HDTV. I remember back in '95 my dad bought a 35" RCA tube TV. We thought it was amazing. It cost fucking $1200 at the time! It's amazing what you get for the money now.
Although this topic is interesting, does it really belong in Mac future hardware? And at 37 pages long, perhaps its time to start a new thread in general discussion.
Uh, you don't think it's desperate that the zealots feel the need for a "buying day" to show support for their format. They're not dumb, just polarized and pised off. They know their chosen format is losing and they want to "make a difference" by doing this. You don't see the same thing for Blu-Ray because the early adopters know their format is not in danger of losing the format war.
LOL..... Most of those HD-DVD zealots wouldn't care which format wins... most are format neutral. These boys have more allowance money than they should, hence they can afford the hobby. The HD-DVD buying day was to celebrate 1st anniversary for HD-DVD launch and everyone was just having fun showing their support. Eitherway, it did make an impact and did make a huge difference, even as of today.....
BTW, you think BD fanboys are safe from this format war?... Well... just visit AVSforum/BD software. There are more die hard fanboys jumping into neutral zone because of BD software drought and lowering HD-DVD player prices. Just don't forget that this is a fun hobby for most zealots, therefore more toys are more fun for them. They usually don't cry over a dead format at all....... If you ask about SACD/DVD-A to an audiophile, you'll get a same response.... more toys.... more fun!!!!
Although this topic is interesting, does it really belong in Mac future hardware? And at 37 pages long, perhaps its time to start a new thread in general discussion.
We are only 4 months into the year I think the last one, for last year, was at page 50 something when we migrated over to this one. I think it makes sense to keep it all in one thread, in one year, as an easy place to make reference to. Plus, at what point in the future do we break it up? Monthly? After a certain number of pages?
Although this topic is interesting, does it really belong in Mac future hardware? And at 37 pages long, perhaps its time to start a new thread in general discussion.
Yup...as it pertains to the possiblility of Blu-ray or HD DVD drives in future Mac Pro, iMac, MacBook Pro, Macbooks, etc. We don't have them yet, thus, the need for it in future hardware.
LOL..... Most of those HD-DVD zealots wouldn't care which format wins... most are format neutral. These boys have more allowance money than they should, hence they can afford the hobby. The HD-DVD buying day was to celebrate 1st anniversary for HD-DVD launch and everyone was just having fun showing their support. Eitherway, it did make an impact and did make a huge difference, even as of today.....
BTW, you think BD fanboys are safe from this format war?... Well... just visit AVSforum/BD software. There are more die hard fanboys jumping into neutral zone because of BD software drought and lowering HD-DVD player prices. Just don't forget that this is a fun hobby for most zealots, therefore more toys are more fun for them. They usually don't cry over a dead format at all....... If you ask about SACD/DVD-A to an audiophile, you'll get a same response.... more toys.... more fun!!!!
Hmm made an impact, yes for one day, but I seriously doubt in the long run it will have any type of significance. Please refer to the Neilsen numbers I posted earler showing that from year to date, Blu-ray owning about 70% of the high def disc sale market. Next week, due to the one day spike for HD DVD,...what will it be? 69% for Blu-ray? It's a drop in the bucket and you know it, but here you are trying to sway the mindset of individuals as if HD DVD is turning the tide. Sorry, most here aren't quite that daft.
So enjoy the spike while you can, because it is the long term sales that count...and I have a feeling you'll be once again mighty dissapointed in your format of choice come May with POTC, Spidey, etc.
April 15th, an organized HD DVD buying day planned for a month now...hmm, the desperation of HD DVD zealots knows now bounds. Look for rankings to stabilize...probably sometime this week to our normal weekly day in and day out Blu-ray domination.
And if you didn't know hmurchison is a frequent poster on AVSForum:
It spells the HD market is so small a few hundred buyers can actually make an impact on useless statistics...
Vinea
Of course, still too small and too early. It would require at least another year and lower HD player prices to become more significant. As I reiterated many times, we need to hit $199 player price point to get this rolling. I'm hoping and predicting to see such pricing by the holiday season this year, at least for entry level HD-DVD players.
Comments
. . . don't you know it's desparate times for both hidef format against SD-DVD?
I doubt that statement. I suspect that no one is buying a SDTV anymore. Likely, SD is not even available except on the used market. Once people have an HDTV they will eventually want to watch HD movies.
However, I admit that SD-DVD is good enough on HDTV that it will slow down HD disc sales.
Something I posted back on 4/9 and got no response about. It was the last time you quoted Videoscan...
------
Something interesting I just read, but:
It would be interesting to know what VideoScan counts in their totals. Do they count brick and mortars? If so, which? Do they count online? If so, which?
It really is too early, and VideoScans own numbers are proof of this. When you are claiming a disk as selling 800 copies in your top 10...
------
And to add to that thought, Wal-Mart might be a huge player in the format war, but the Amazon sales charts don't show it, and neither does Videoscan. Hell, there is way too much data we DON'T know at this point to be claiming much of anything. And if a group of HD DVD proponents can change the charts by a 1 day buying spree, then I think it is WAY too early to claim victory either way. If a few people can move the charts, the sales volume for both formats must be pathetically low.
I agree. I totally agree if a site like Amazon can be swayed by a buying spree within a day, it is still quite early in terms of the maturation of the high-def market.
In terms of your question in regards to which stores participate in Nielsen/Videoscan numbers, I don't think this is public knowledge (I could be totally wrong so if some one can find this info, by all means) but it appears there are many B&M stores all over the country that do participate. This should help...
http://www.videoscan.com/about.html
VideoScan and ACNielsen (a partnership since January 2000, and sister companies under the VNU banner since 2001) seamlessly integrate point-of-sale (POS) data collected by both companies to provide a comprehensive view of the VHS and DVD sell-through business.
VideoScan, a leader in video market research since 1993, manages the business on behalf of the partnership. With its strong history and relationships with studios and electronic/specialty retailers, VideoScan provides industry-wide expertise and perspective.
ACNielsen, the leader in data services to the consumer packaged goods industry, brings its powerful analytic capabilities and broad coverage of the discount mass, grocery and drug retailers to the partnership.
Together, VideoScan and ACNielsen are the acknowledged leader in consumer research for the VHS and DVD sell-through industry. The partnership between VideoScan and ACNielsen is known as Nielsen VideoScan.
Sell-through POS (consumer purchase) sales data are collected weekly from traditional channels of video distribution including mass merchants, audio/video and video specialty retailers, electronics outlets, grocery stores, drug stores, and some Internet sites. Nielsen VideoScan maintains this weekly POS data in one of the largest databases of VHS and DVD products in the country. Data is collected on more than 40,000 VHS items and 12,000 DVD items. Virtually every UPC code in sell-through release since 1993 can be found in our extensive database. Complete sales data in all retail channels are available as far back as January 1999 (however Wal*Mart data is included only through 7/28/01). Prior to January 1999, limited information is available in most channels going back to 1993.
Nielsen VideoScan's VHS and DVD sell-through data are made available through the Nielsen VideoScan web site and the ACNielsen NITRO data delivery system. Some of the types of reports we have available:
Title Reports with sales for each title categorized nationally, regionally (by DMA) and by retail channel.
Sales History Reports providing week-by-week title sales since 1999 or release date (if later).
Summary Reports providing industry overviews comparing sales from previous years as well as weekly comparisons to the prior year.
Market Share Reports giving annual and weekly market shares by distributor/label.
Top 100 Charts for numerous categories rank the top titles by unit sales. Charts are available for the current week's sales or for cumulative year-to-date sales. Prior year-end charts are also available. Chart categories include distributors and selected genres.
While most of our clients choose annual subscriptions, we also work with customers on a project-by-project basis. We can handle everything from sophisticated marketing and sales research and planning to simple one title sales ad-hoc requests.
So, in general, their numbers provide a more representative sample of the industry moreso than Amazon sales rankings solely.
http://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/ques...hp?startpage=2
Shares in Sony climbed to a five-year high on Friday after a newspaper predicted a sixfold increase in its profits for the current year.
Strong sales of the Playstation 3 could push Sony's pre-tax income to 400bn yen ($3.4bn; £1.7bn), a sharp increase on the 60bn yen expected for 2006.
Launching the next-generation console is expected to put a 200bn yen hole in Sony's finances.
Sony closed the session up 2.7% at 6,510 yen.
Demand
The world's second-largest electronics maker will also benefit from increased demand in its liquid crystal display (LCD) televisions in the US and European markets, according to the Nikkei business daily.
Analysts cited in the newspaper expected group sales in the year 2007-2008 would be up 6% to 8.7 trillion yen, boosted by a two-thirds increase in sales of LCD TVs to 10 million in 2007-2008.
A 67% rise in PS3 shipments to 10 million units, better semi-conductor production yields and cost-cutting should also boost the business, according to the newspaper.
Just FYI.
LOL.... it spells strong support for the HD-DVD Zealots....... and this is the reason that it won't go away. Where's the support from BD zealots?... don't you know it's desparate times for both hidef format against SD-DVD?
The problem is zealots don't drive markets like mass media. The general consumers do and marketing budgets do wonders there.
As a general aside though it seems the market it flattening out somewhere around 60:40 or 65:35, which certainly isn't what I'd call crushing at this stage. I still see the problem being Toshiba lacks support and sorry hybrid players aren't that much help. At the end of the day the problem is still movie support and some big CE brands are BD exclusive.
And to add to that thought, Wal-Mart might be a huge player in the format war, but the Amazon sales charts don't show it, and neither does Videoscan.
I've wondered about this as well. I would imagine that Walmart would move much more of the HD-DVD product instead of Blu-Ray because it is the cheaper format (And that's Walmart's clientele.)
How do we judge format sales without including Walmart?
The problem is zealots don't drive markets like mass media. The general consumers do and marketing budgets do wonders there.
As a general aside though it seems the market it flattening out somewhere around 60:40 or 65:35, which certainly isn't what I'd call crushing at this stage. I still see the problem being Toshiba lacks support and sorry hybrid players aren't that much help. At the end of the day the problem is still movie support and some big CE brands are BD exclusive.
that will be true in few years when J6P is ready for the HiDef market. The HiDef market at the moment is being driven by zealots/enthusiasts. The entry price is too high at the moment and only the zealots can push the market for the time being but not by J6P. As for the market trend, it is still moving up and down for both hidef formats. BD may have started a good rush in the begining of the year 2007, but it's being turned flip flop as we speak. When it comes May, it will permenently flop for BD and will be kept that way until end of the year.
BTW, which CE brands do you consider to be a consumer brand for J6P?
Edited: corrected for Kolchak (replaced HD-DVD with BD in the last sentence).
LOL.... it spells strong support for the HD-DVD Zealots....... and this is the reason that it won't go away. Where's the support from BD zealots?... don't you know it's desparate times for both hidef format against SD-DVD?
Uh, you don't think it's desperate that the zealots feel the need for a "buying day" to show support for their format. They're not dumb, just polarized and pised off. They know their chosen format is losing and they want to "make a difference" by doing this. You don't see the same thing for Blu-Ray because the early adopters know their format is not in danger of losing the format war.
Disclaimer: I should remind you that while I do have a PS3, I am no Blu-Ray zealot myself. I'd like to see it win just because that's what I have now, but it's no skin off my back if HD-DVD takes over. Of course, I do enjoy watching the HD-DVD fanatics frantically defend their format!
I disagree with your last statement. I think the process just takes a long time. Prices have to come down before hidef takes over. It was the same with HDTVs. 5 years ago plasma sets started at almost seven grand. Now that same set with better specs is $1600. We're still in early adopter land. No worries.
I doubt that statement. I suspect that no one is buying a SDTV anymore. Likely, SD is not even available except on the used market. Once people have an HDTV they will eventually want to watch HD movies.
However, I admit that SD-DVD is good enough on HDTV that it will slow down HD disc sales.
SD is available in quantity.
http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/Tube-...ategorylist.do
I think you're right though that sales must be slow. Anyone who is going to spend over $500 is going to get an HDTV. I remember back in '95 my dad bought a 35" RCA tube TV. We thought it was amazing. It cost fucking $1200 at the time! It's amazing what you get for the money now.
Uh, you don't think it's desperate that the zealots feel the need for a "buying day" to show support for their format. They're not dumb, just polarized and pised off. They know their chosen format is losing and they want to "make a difference" by doing this. You don't see the same thing for Blu-Ray because the early adopters know their format is not in danger of losing the format war.
LOL..... Most of those HD-DVD zealots wouldn't care which format wins... most are format neutral. These boys have more allowance money than they should, hence they can afford the hobby. The HD-DVD buying day was to celebrate 1st anniversary for HD-DVD launch and everyone was just having fun showing their support. Eitherway, it did make an impact and did make a huge difference, even as of today.....
BTW, you think BD fanboys are safe from this format war?... Well... just visit AVSforum/BD software. There are more die hard fanboys jumping into neutral zone because of BD software drought and lowering HD-DVD player prices. Just don't forget that this is a fun hobby for most zealots, therefore more toys are more fun for them. They usually don't cry over a dead format at all....... If you ask about SACD/DVD-A to an audiophile, you'll get a same response.... more toys.... more fun!!!!
Although this topic is interesting, does it really belong in Mac future hardware? And at 37 pages long, perhaps its time to start a new thread in general discussion.
We are only 4 months into the year
When it comes May, it will permenently flop for HD-DVD and will be kept that way until end of the year.
HD DVD being a permanent flop sounds good to me.
And the topic will die out whenever Apple definitively picks one or the other format for Macs.
HD DVD being a permanent flop sounds good to me.
ah... another childish comment.... I almost forgot that you're the one with 5th grader friends. I guess it's all part of growing up.
BTW, I'll go edit it for ya, being an adult I am. I'll replace HD-DVD with BD in that same sentence.... okay?
Although this topic is interesting, does it really belong in Mac future hardware? And at 37 pages long, perhaps its time to start a new thread in general discussion.
Yup...as it pertains to the possiblility of Blu-ray or HD DVD drives in future Mac Pro, iMac, MacBook Pro, Macbooks, etc. We don't have them yet, thus, the need for it in future hardware.
LOL..... Most of those HD-DVD zealots wouldn't care which format wins... most are format neutral. These boys have more allowance money than they should, hence they can afford the hobby. The HD-DVD buying day was to celebrate 1st anniversary for HD-DVD launch and everyone was just having fun showing their support. Eitherway, it did make an impact and did make a huge difference, even as of today.....
BTW, you think BD fanboys are safe from this format war?... Well... just visit AVSforum/BD software. There are more die hard fanboys jumping into neutral zone because of BD software drought and lowering HD-DVD player prices. Just don't forget that this is a fun hobby for most zealots, therefore more toys are more fun for them. They usually don't cry over a dead format at all....... If you ask about SACD/DVD-A to an audiophile, you'll get a same response.... more toys.... more fun!!!!
Hmm made an impact, yes for one day, but I seriously doubt in the long run it will have any type of significance. Please refer to the Neilsen numbers I posted earler showing that from year to date, Blu-ray owning about 70% of the high def disc sale market. Next week, due to the one day spike for HD DVD,...what will it be? 69% for Blu-ray? It's a drop in the bucket and you know it, but here you are trying to sway the mindset of individuals as if HD DVD is turning the tide. Sorry, most here aren't quite that daft.
So enjoy the spike while you can, because it is the long term sales that count...and I have a feeling you'll be once again mighty dissapointed in your format of choice come May with POTC, Spidey, etc.
Nope, I didn't hear that...but I did hear this concerning the very abrupt sales spike in HD DVD in terms of SALES RANK on Amazon...
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=818991
April 15th, an organized HD DVD buying day planned for a month now...hmm, the desperation of HD DVD zealots knows now bounds. Look for rankings to stabilize...probably sometime this week to our normal weekly day in and day out Blu-ray domination.
And if you didn't know hmurchison is a frequent poster on AVSForum:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/member.php?userid=24415
Woooosh. Did you hear that? That's HD DVD accelerating past Blu-ray.
How pathetic can you get? You know why but that fact you "forgot" to tell.
LOL... it spells strong support for the HD-DVD Zealots...
It spells the HD market is so small a few hundred buyers can actually make an impact on useless statistics...
Vinea
It spells the HD market is so small a few hundred buyers can actually make an impact on useless statistics...
Vinea
Of course, still too small and too early. It would require at least another year and lower HD player prices to become more significant. As I reiterated many times, we need to hit $199 player price point to get this rolling. I'm hoping and predicting to see such pricing by the holiday season this year, at least for entry level HD-DVD players.