Mac OS 10.5+ free of charge?

Posted:
in macOS edited January 2014
First, let me point out I'm not too familiar with either US or European anti-trust laws, but something just crossed my mind:

Couldn't it be considered illegal to sell software (read 'Mac OS 10.5') specifically 'crippled' in such way that it's not possible to run on competitors' hardware?



If so, what would that mean in terms of future Mac OS releases?

Today, no Intel-compatible version of Mac OS X is available in retail, but Apple will surely offer Leopard to those of us with Intel macs.



Will it be free for anyone with a (not too old) mac, or will only 'upgrade licenses' be sold?

Comments

  • Reply 1 of 15
    chuckerchucker Posts: 5,089member
    1) It isn't specifically crippled. There is no copy protection. There is only a clause in the EULA disallowing this, and this clause is void in several countries.

    2) Apple holds a small minority position in the market, rather than a dominant one. Antitrust laws are therefore not a concern.
  • Reply 2 of 15
    hirohiro Posts: 2,663member
    Why would Apple need to offer an Intel Native standalone 10.4? Every Apple Intel box comes with 10.4 pre-installed and with restore disks.



    And selling OS X for Macs only is not illegal. It is a very legal vertical market. Although vertical markets have some of the characteristics of monopolies, they are missing characteristics the mean they are not monopolies. Even monopolies are legal as long as they do not overstep certain bounds of behavior, and being a vertical market is not one of those bounds.



    10.5 will be a pay to play unless you buy a Mac within 60-days of the 10.5 release, the typical Apple Software Fulfillment coupon time limit.
  • Reply 3 of 15
    ipeonipeon Posts: 1,122member
    Quote:

    Couldn't it be considered illegal to sell software (read 'Mac OS 10.5') specifically 'crippled' in such way that it's not possible to run on competitors' hardware?



    I'm not sure if I understand what you are getting at. If by 'crippled' you mean that it only runs on Apple Hardware... Why would that be a violation of anti-trust laws?



    Quote:

    Today, no Intel-compatible version of Mac OS X is available in retail, but Apple will surely offer Leopard to those of us with Intel macs.



    Will it be free for anyone with a (not too old) mac, or will only 'upgrade licenses' be sold?



    Mac OS X v10.4 "Tiger" is available in retail. It's compatible with all current Intel as well as non-intel Macs that date back to the G4 and even G3 CPUs. Mac OS 10.5 is not an upgrade to Mac OS 10.4. Mac OS 10 is one version, Mac OS 10.1 is another and so on. The Mac OS comes free with every new Mac, however, anyone can purchase it and install it on a Mac. I have Mac that was originally sold with Mac OS 9 that is currently running Mac OS 13.3.9. I have purchased each version as a standalone OS, so it's not an upgrade.
  • Reply 4 of 15
    mr. memr. me Posts: 3,221member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by iPeon View Post


    ...



    Mac OS X v10.4 "Tiger" is available in retail. It's compatible with all current Intel...



    Nothing in this link supports your contention that the retail version of MacOS X 10.4 is compatible with Intel-based Macs. The retail version available at the Apple Store specifically lists only PPC-based computers.
  • Reply 5 of 15
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Mr. Me View Post


    Nothing in this link supports your contention that the retail version of MacOS X 10.4 is compatible with Intel-based Macs. The retail version available at the Apple Store specifically lists only PPC-based computers.



    Well, yes, Apple's own store does only list PPC processors, but if you had an intel based Mac running Tiger, wouldn't that be a clue that OS X is native to it? If you also go to the OS X tab on the home page and click on Mac OS X Tiger, it talks all about Tiger being compatabile with both Intel and PPC Macs. Tiger was released before the Intel transition and I'm guessing Apple just didn't update their store page accordingly. But seriously ... I think it's okay to assume that Apple's OS will run natively on Apple's computers.
  • Reply 6 of 15
    mr. memr. me Posts: 3,221member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AgNuke1707 View Post


    Well, yes, Apple's own store does only list PPC processors, but if you had an intel based Mac running Tiger, wouldn't that be a clue that OS X is native to it? If you also go to the OS X tab on the home page and click on Mac OS X Tiger, it talks all about Tiger being compatabile with both Intel and PPC Macs. Tiger was released before the Intel transition and I'm guessing Apple just didn't update their store page accordingly.



    Earth to AgNuke1707--Every Intel-based Mac ever sold shipped with MacOS X 10.4. Software Update can update the OS on each Intel-based Mac to the latest version. The retail shrinkwrap version of MacOS X 10.4 serves to upgrade a MacOS X 10.3 or older installation to MacOS X 10.4. This is unnecessary with Intel-based Macs.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AgNuke1707 View Post


    But seriously ... I think it's okay to assume ....



    You know what they say when you assume?
  • Reply 7 of 15
    mdriftmeyermdriftmeyer Posts: 7,503member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tubgirl View Post


    First, let me point out I'm not too familiar with either US or European anti-trust laws, but something just crossed my mind:

    Couldn't it be considered illegal to sell software (read 'Mac OS 10.5') specifically 'crippled' in such way that it's not possible to run on competitors' hardware?



    If so, what would that mean in terms of future Mac OS releases?

    Today, no Intel-compatible version of Mac OS X is available in retail, but Apple will surely offer Leopard to those of us with Intel macs.



    Will it be free for anyone with a (not too old) mac, or will only 'upgrade licenses' be sold?



    All major OS X updates are at least $129 retail.



    Only EFI enabled Mac Intel Hardware are designed to run OS X Intel.



    It's not "illegal" to determine what or what doesn't run on your products.
  • Reply 8 of 15
    ipeonipeon Posts: 1,122member
    Mac OS X 10.1, 10.2, 10.3, and 10.4 are all stand-alone system software that can be installed regardless of the version of Mac OS currently installed. You don't need a older installation to install any Reference Release, all you need is a Mac that is fast enough for it and, with the advent of Apple having switched processors, having a compatible CPU. You can't install 10.3 on an Intel Mac. Of course.



    The point is that 10.5 will be available in retail for Intel Macs. That's just (insert adjective here) to think otherwise.
  • Reply 9 of 15
    mr. memr. me Posts: 3,221member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by iPeon View Post


    Mac OS X 10.1, 10.2, 10.3, and 10.4 are all stand-alone system software that can be installed regardless of the version of Mac OS currently installed. You don't need a older installation to install any Reference Release, all you need is a Mac that is fast enough for it and, with the advent of Apple having switched processors, having a compatible CPU. You can't install 10.3 on an Intel Mac. Of course.



    This is all very true, except for one little detail. Every Mac ever sold included an operating system, either preinstalled or included with the computer in the box. You can twist it, turn it, spindle it, or mutilate it. You can slice it, dice it, or julienne it. You cannot add Intel-compatibility to the retail version of MacOS X 10.4.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by iPeon View Post


    The point is that 10.5 will be available in retail for Intel Macs. That's just (insert adjective here) to think otherwise.



    This is not in dispute. Don't pretend otherwise.
  • Reply 10 of 15
    hirohiro Posts: 2,663member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Mr. Me View Post


    You cannot add Intel-compatibility to the retail version of MacOS X 10.4.



    And that is a worthless statement since every Intel CPU machine able to legally run OS X comes from the factory with Intel-native OS X 10.4 pre-installed and on the System Restore disks.



    There is exactly ZERO legal market for an Intel-native 10.4 retail version.



    How is that so hard to bleeding understand???



    And frankly I don't even understand who is bitching about what anymore since the facts are so damn simple and the thread so effing tangential in what seems to be every damn direction.
  • Reply 11 of 15
    ipeonipeon Posts: 1,122member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Mr. Me View Post


    You cannot add Intel-compatibility to the retail version of MacOS X 10.4.



    Why would you need to? Do you want to upgrade your Intel Mac from 10.4 to 10.4?
  • Reply 12 of 15
    This whole thread is really confusing. Let's look at the original questions:



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tubgirl View Post


    Couldn't it be considered illegal to sell software (read 'Mac OS 10.5') specifically 'crippled' in such way that it's not possible to run on competitors' hardware?



    Depends on the software and the hardware. If this were illegal in a general sense, every hardware/software developer would be guilty since no software runs on all "competitors' hardware."



    It's not illegal for Apple to sell an OS which only runs on their hardware, if that's what you're asking.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tubgirl View Post


    If so, what would that mean in terms of future Mac OS releases?



    This is where you lose me. Leopard (and subsequent Mac OSs) shouldn't be any different than, say, Tiger in terms of licensing.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tubgirl View Post


    Today, no Intel-compatible version of Mac OS X is available in retail, but Apple will surely offer Leopard to those of us with Intel macs.



    Yeah... obviously?



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tubgirl View Post


    Will it be free for anyone with a (not too old) mac, or will only 'upgrade licenses' be sold?



    Why on earth would it be free? What are these "upgrade licenses"? Leopard will be available on DVD (and maybe CD) for somewhere around $129. It will also be preinstalled on all future Macs. It will run on PPC and Intel hardware. I fail to see how any of this has anything to do with licensing, competitors, the Intel transition, or it being free somehow.
  • Reply 13 of 15
    mr. memr. me Posts: 3,221member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Hiro View Post


    And that is a worthless statement since every Intel CPU machine able to legally run OS X comes from the factory with Intel-native OS X 10.4 pre-installed and on the System Restore disks.



    ....



    If you had bothered to read the previous posts in this thread, then you would know that my post was in response to iPeon's absurd assertion that the retail version of MacOS X 10.4 is compatible with Intel-based Macs.
  • Reply 14 of 15
    aryayusharyayush Posts: 191member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Hiro View Post


    And that is a worthless statement since every Intel CPU machine able to legally run OS X comes from the factory with Intel-native OS X 10.4 pre-installed and on the System Restore disks.



    There is exactly ZERO legal market for an Intel-native 10.4 retail version.



    How is that so hard to bleeding understand???



    And frankly I don't even understand who is bitching about what anymore since the facts are so damn simple and the thread so effing tangential in what seems to be every damn direction.



    LOL! That's very funny and very true.
  • Reply 15 of 15
    hirohiro Posts: 2,663member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Mr. Me View Post


    If you had bothered to read the previous posts in this thread, then you would know that my post was in response to iPeon's absurd assertion that the retail version of MacOS X 10.4 is compatible with Intel-based Macs.



    I have read & re-read every post in this thread. I even backtracked yesterday. Your post, among others, is just so damn circuitously written that every time I try to read it I come up with a different interpretation depending on whether I re-read your earlier post (again!) immediately before or not.



    None of it is necessary! The premise of the OP is fatally flawed and there is no legal reason for an Intel-native retail 10.4.
Sign In or Register to comment.