Well, desparate times call for desparate measures. With both hidef format supporters taking turns to do this is kinda amusing to watch. These zealots are actually helping with buffering newer techologies until it becomes accepted by the consumers. Just don't forget that without such zealots of new technologies, we probably wouldn't have had the pleasure of having DVD's right now.
Bite, I know you're talking about users here but the real hardcore zealots are the equipment manufactures and studios trying to push an HD format down consumers throats, especially when it's not clear whether consumers really want this or not.
Your last sentence is patently absurd, when it came to the SD-DVD format manufacturers and studios saw the chance to replacate the success of CDs in the audio sector, where people in most cases almost entirely replaced their LP holdings, plus a chance to get movie ownership into the average home, something the paltry sales of VHS and laserdiscs were unable to do.
So basically in neither case was this driven by what consumers wanted.
Well, that's it, then. I've come to hate Samsung for their business practices in the last year and this unholy alliance means I'll never, ever buy a Samsung-branded product again.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldCodger73
Your last sentence is patently absurd, when it came to the SD-DVD format manufacturers and studios saw the chance to replacate the success of CDs in the audio sector, where people in most cases almost entirely replaced their LP holdings, plus a chance to get movie ownership into the average home, something the paltry sales of VHS and laserdiscs were unable to do.
Um, paltry sales of VHS? It was doing quite well, thank you very much. In fact, it took until this year, ten years after DVD's introduction, before DVD sales surpassed VHS sales.
The arguments continue to rage as to whether Blu-ray is winning the high definition video format war, with new retail figures showing that Blu-ray outsold HD DVD by more than two to one for the first quarter of 2007.
According to a report in Home Media Magazine, Blu-ray not only grabbed 70% of the sales in the March quarter but the Sony developed format actually increased its market share to nearly 75% in the month of March.
While there is still much contention as to which high definition format will prevail, if the data is correct, then it appears that Blu-ray is well on its way to becoming the format of choice.
As the Home Media article points out, despite the fact that Blu-ray was two months later to market than HD DVD, it has now taken a clear lead in number of discs sold. In addition, there is evidence to suggest that that Blu-ray is outselling HD DVD on titles released in both formats.
Blu-ray would also appear to have the advantage in backing from the major movie studios, with Disney, Sony and Fox not bothering to release titles in HD DVD, while Universal continues to snub Blu-ray in favor of HD DVD. However, with Blu-ray outselling or at least matching HD DVD sales, it is open to question whether Universal can afford to maintain that stance.
There is an argument that Blu-ray sales are being somehow artificially inflated by sales of the new Sony games console PlayStation 3, which incorporates a Blu-ray player. While there is no doubt that PS3 sales are helping to get Blu-ray players into the homes of consumers, the Home Media data focuses on sales of movie titles not players. If the data is correct, then HD DVD could be on the ropes. The coming quarter could reveal much about whether the format war is coming to an end or continues to rage.
As the Home Media article points out, despite the fact that Blu-ray was two months later to market than HD DVD, it has now taken a clear lead in number of discs sold. In addition, there is evidence to suggest that that Blu-ray is outselling HD DVD on titles released in both formats.
Gotta love one sided articles. Planet Earth HD DVD has been outselling the Blu-ray version for quite some time. Nice fact checking from this author. Even know it's damn near neck and neck with HD DVD PE ranked #5 and Blu-ray ranked #6.
This is important to me and impressive as we know that there are only 100k US players (standalone) and likely another 80k or so Xbox add ons. The entired HD DVD market me be at tops 400k playback devices in the US.
Now juxtapose that to over a million PS3 in homes most likely and you see that HD DVD players do indeed deliver markedly better attach rates of movies to players. This is important because when final confirmation comes in that Walmart is bringing in 2 million low cost players late this year into the next you see that it will have a profound impact on HD DVD movie sales as these are all standalone players dedicated to viewing HD content.
Articles like this smack of Sony's "The War is Over" proclamation after CES. I've read countless articles that spew out statistics and ratios ad naseum yet they never seem to explain to the readers about how few titles were released on HD DVD in March. It was virtually a release free month yet Blu-ray only eeked out a 2:1 advantage in sale? That's underperforming.
Toshiba was first to 100k standalone players. Even at a surplus of 4 studios and millions of players, Blu-ray barely eeks out a slim margin of sales.
It's pretty easy to add a bunch of in lieu of a real argument. If you believe you have insight into how this battle will turn out please...by all means inform us. We're all ears.
Jesus Christ...another useless stat. Blu-Ray is outselling HD-DVD by a sizeable margin and has been for at least 3 months. That is the number that matters. Not attach rates or standalone players or whatever other pathetic and desparate stat you'll come up with next. Pretty soon it will be "HD-DVD outsells Blu-Ray in hidef players that are not black and sold only at Circuit City on Wednesdays when it's raining outside"
And no..I truly have NO IDEA how it will all turn out. HD-DVD could turn it around, and if it does I will be the first to say so once I'm convinced it's happening. Once HD-DVD outsells Blu-Ray significantly for 3-6 months or so...then I'll be convinced it's a real battle.
Until then, the only reasonable prediction is that Blu-Ray will "win" based on the current numbers. Anything else is literally wishful thinking.
Bite, I know you're talking about users here but the real hardcore zealots are the equipment manufactures and studios trying to push an HD format down consumers throats, especially when it's not clear whether consumers really want this or not.
Your last sentence is patently absurd, when it came to the SD-DVD format manufacturers and studios saw the chance to replacate the success of CDs in the audio sector, where people in most cases almost entirely replaced their LP holdings, plus a chance to get movie ownership into the average home, something the paltry sales of VHS and laserdiscs were unable to do.
So basically in neither case was this driven by what consumers wanted.
Since when were VHS sales "paltry" before DVDs came out to the mass market? Where are you getting that? Also, I disagree with you on the consumers not driving the market. Consumers saw vastly improved picture and sound quality, a reasonable price and compact size with DVD. Laserdisc and VHS failed in at least one or even two of those areas as well.
Gotta love one sided articles. Planet Earth HD DVD has been outselling the Blu-ray version for quite some time. Nice fact checking from this author. Even know it's damn near neck and neck with HD DVD PE ranked #5 and Blu-ray ranked #6.
And everybody only shops at Amazon? You know the difference between rank 10 and 6?
Yes 4 spots. The numbers at this point are irrelevant.
No, the numbers are the only thing that is relevant, not SALES RANK. C'mon man, get your head out. I know you're all "Talk to me goose" flustered with Blu-ray dominating all this year, but it is time to engage damnit! JK. On a serious note, sales rank is just not a very accurate indicator, pure and simple--actual sales are, and they show Blu-ray dominating.
No, the numbers are the only thing that is relevant, not SALES RANK. C'mon man, get your head out. I know you're all "Talk to me goose" flustered with Blu-ray dominating all this year, but it is time to engage damnit! JK. On a serious note, sales rank is just not a very accurate indicator, pure and simple--actual sales are, and they show Blu-ray dominating.
"dominating" is a strong word since both formats are still fledgling IMO. I don't think we've seen HD DVDs main thrust for the year. Q2 is when the Reference Platform players are due based on MS Win CE 6/Broadcom BCM7440. There are at least 4 players coming and if Wal-Mart is indeed planning on 2 million players then clearly the battle will take another turn as they will certainly plan on selling content (probably pretty cheaply).
I LOVE this battle. The war isn't even a year old and players have already dropped almost %40 and by years end they'll have dropped %50 or more from the launch. Consumers haven't had such a rapid decline in player pricing in recent history.
Yes 4 spots. The numbers at this point are irrelevant.
The ranks are absolutely irrelevant since they don't say much about how much they sell. Number 10 could sell 100 copies that day and muber 6 could sell 101.
No question to go through the post labyrinth of this thread, but who will explain to me poor ignorant what's going on here? Why such a polarization in this topic? Whichever the winner-format, is not finally the customer who finally gains? Or are you investors?
No question to go through the post labyrinth of this thread, but who will explain to me poor ignorant what's going on here? Why such a polarization in this topic? Whichever the winner-format, is not finally the customer who finally gains? Or are you investors?
No question to go through the post labyrinth of this thread, but who will explain to me poor ignorant what's going on here? Why such a polarization in this topic? Whichever the winner-format, is not finally the customer who finally gains? Or are you investors?
I think the chasm in this topic boils down to a difference in philosophy--should we have a product that can be the best that it can be given the current state of advanced technology (Blu-ray), or should we settle for a product that is "good enough" (HD DVD)? I prefer the former,..let's get it right the first time and not bother with a transitional format in HD DVD that is just "good enough."
I think the same can be said in Vinea's comparison with PC vs Mac vs Linux. I thought this one hit the nail right on the head and was a very good example.
Folks like Marzetta7 will only look at a couple of attributes of a format and attribute them as overall superiority. Blu-ray does indeed have more storage and more bandwidth. That does make it superior in areas where these two attributes are limiting factors.
The reality though (and this has been adequately proven) is that your typical feature length film can adequately be captured with full fidelity with 30GB of data. Happy Feet looks and sounds phenomenal.
Upon deeper inspection of the Blu-ray specification it became clear to me that the hardware was seriously deficient. Few network capable drives, lack of dual audio and video decoders hampers the ability for the player to internally mix video and audio elements for Interactivity and proper sound output. BD-Java seemed like overkill for an interactive layer. Think about how many Java apps you love to use today. Limewire, Azureous etc. They are all SLOW. No persistent storage.
Blu-ray is rectifiying these issues with a 1.1 Profile due in October which "almost" brings it inline with HD DVD spec 2006. So basically with Blu-ray we have a "hot engine" in a dud of a chassis.
HD DVD is making changes of their own. They've started the process of ratifying a Triple Layer 51GB disc. I don't know the ramifications of these discs regarding playability in today's players but even if TL51 is difficult I'd welcome the DL34GB potential just for breathing room.
I've read people say that Blu-ray is designed to last 10yrs while HD DVD is not. That's foolish and ignorant of how codec evolution really works. Both formats use the same exact codecs. I've long said that the trend with codecs is more fidelity at lower bitrates and I'm constantly rebuffed. What did Apple announce at NAB2007. A new codec that can deliver "visually lossless" picture quality at SD rates. Again corroborating my premise that the trend is clearly reducing datarates.
Red Code (the 4k Red One camera codec) uses Wavelet compression (a la Pixlet or Jpeg2000) and it and Cineform also do a damn good job of compression with very few artififacts. This is important because I believe that we may have a high end niche format in 10 years that delivers 4k content on disc. We need a technology that can handle about 100GB of storage and 100Mbps throughput.
The encoding format could be h.265 or a form of wavelet compression. Both will be in full swing in probably 5-6 yrs delivering better compression than what we have today. I'd also like to see the next optical format deliver 10-bit.
The reality though (and this has been adequately proven) is that your typical feature length film can adequately be captured with full fidelity with 30GB of data.
HD DVD is making changes of their own. They've started the process of ratifying a Triple Layer 51GB disc. I don't know the ramifications of these discs regarding playability in today's players but even if TL51 is difficult I'd welcome the DL34GB potential just for breathing room.
I thought 30GB was enough? 51GB will finally bring HD DVD inline with Blu-ray, but it might make every single HD DVD player out there obsolete - and this time it really is obsolete.
Yet another update to the most misreported (or at least mistranslated) story of the year:
As has been reported here (and everywhere else) Engadget got ahold of a press release, apparently from Chinese manufacturer Fuh Yuan, indicating that Walmart had placed an order for 2,000,000 HD DVD players, which was then later retracted due to an odd translation, leading some to think that Walmart was instead ordering Blu-ray players. What remained odd was that no press release was ever issued by Walmart, the HD DVD or Blu-ray promotions groups, or anyone else who would be involved. Fuh Yuan also failed to clarify this "story" and industry "insiders" posting on internet messageboards had no idea what was happening.
A CED Industry Newsletter that was posted in the news section here, is now apparently reporting the following:
Quote:
Sources we queried who are familiar with HD DVD licensing and Chinese OEMs were flummoxed by the reports. Neither Fuh Yuan nor Great Wall appear on any rosters of DVD and HD DVD licensees. Our search of major English-language newspapers and news services in Taiwan, China and Hong Kong didn't turn up any reports on Fuh Yuan or Great Wall or the purported deal with Wal-Mart. From translations of the Fuh Yuan announcement we've seen, it was part of a ramp-up for an IPO the company will launch in July.
And now Engadget has posted a retraction of the earlier article here
Quote:
The biggest news to hit the format war in some time hit last week with word that Wal-Mart and China's Great Wall corporation struck a deal to bring inexpensive HD DVD players to market. While this is would be great news for all HD fans, we were left a bit worrisome by the translation dispute between the two camps. Just to make sure we had our facts straight, we updated the post and contacted HD DVD to get the full story. While the HD DVD camp reminded us that they have inexpensive players from China on the way, they weren't able to confirm any "specific reports relating to Wal-Mart". It seems to us that if this were indeed true, that the HD DVD camp would be the first to trumpet its significance to their success in the format war. As much as we all want inexpensive next generation HD disc players, we will just have to wait for something more official before we hold off on our purchases waiting for Wal-Mart.
So, who knows what's going on with this? As much attention as this has gotten, it really doesn't bode well for the integrity of Engadget that they've essentially retracted this story twice: once to say it "might" be Blu-ray players, and now a second time saying the whole deal might not exist.
Could this release have been the optimistic writings of a pre-IPO Chinese company that HOPES to get enough money in an IPO to produce HD DVD players, which they THINK they can make very cheaply, and that they HOPE to sell to Walmart? That's definitely a different story, altogether.
Frankly I'd say $299 in 2008 for an HD-DVD player is kind of expensive for Wal-Mart's clientele so I wouldn't be buy the story. Look at where prices are now for the entry level and do you really believe they'll only be $299? Even Sony has said they expect Blu-Ray players near that price by year end.
Frankly I'd say $299 in 2008 for an HD-DVD player is kind of expensive for Wal-Mart's clientele so I wouldn't be buy the story. Look at where prices are now for the entry level and do you really believe they'll only be $299? Even Sony has said they expect Blu-Ray players near that price by year end.
Blu-ray will have to be around $299 by years end if they want to keep competiting strongly. The problem is the player pricing will go up with profile 1.1 persistent storage devices IMO. We'll see what they can do.
I think Xmas will deliver $199 HD DVD players on sale. The rumored PR release from the Chinese companie pegs the costs ridiculously low. We'll have to see if this rumor cuts muster or not. I have my doubts but Wal-Mart hasn't denied it yet.
TOKYO (XFN-ASIA) - Toshiba Corp aims to sell around 3 mln players compatible with the HD DVD next-generation optical disc format in the current year to March 2008, up sharply from the 250,000 units it sold last fiscal year, the Nikkei financial daily reported, without citing sources.
The global market for next-generation DVD players is seen at 4-5 mln units in fiscal 2007, with Toshiba (other-otc: TOSBF.PK - news - people ) seeking a 60-70 pct share, the Nikkei said.
Comments
Well, desparate times call for desparate measures. With both hidef format supporters taking turns to do this is kinda amusing to watch. These zealots are actually helping with buffering newer techologies until it becomes accepted by the consumers. Just don't forget that without such zealots of new technologies, we probably wouldn't have had the pleasure of having DVD's right now.
Bite, I know you're talking about users here but the real hardcore zealots are the equipment manufactures and studios trying to push an HD format down consumers throats, especially when it's not clear whether consumers really want this or not.
Your last sentence is patently absurd, when it came to the SD-DVD format manufacturers and studios saw the chance to replacate the success of CDs in the audio sector, where people in most cases almost entirely replaced their LP holdings, plus a chance to get movie ownership into the average home, something the paltry sales of VHS and laserdiscs were unable to do.
So basically in neither case was this driven by what consumers wanted.
HD-DVD picking up momentum with hardware vendors. Samsung and Microsoft sign agreement:
http://www.samsung.com/PressCenter/P...419_0000339316
Well, that's it, then. I've come to hate Samsung for their business practices in the last year and this unholy alliance means I'll never, ever buy a Samsung-branded product again.
Your last sentence is patently absurd, when it came to the SD-DVD format manufacturers and studios saw the chance to replacate the success of CDs in the audio sector, where people in most cases almost entirely replaced their LP holdings, plus a chance to get movie ownership into the average home, something the paltry sales of VHS and laserdiscs were unable to do.
Um, paltry sales of VHS? It was doing quite well, thank you very much. In fact, it took until this year, ten years after DVD's introduction, before DVD sales surpassed VHS sales.
Blu-ray outselling HD DVD? Arguments rage
By Stan Beer
Tuesday, 24 April 2007
The arguments continue to rage as to whether Blu-ray is winning the high definition video format war, with new retail figures showing that Blu-ray outsold HD DVD by more than two to one for the first quarter of 2007.
According to a report in Home Media Magazine, Blu-ray not only grabbed 70% of the sales in the March quarter but the Sony developed format actually increased its market share to nearly 75% in the month of March.
While there is still much contention as to which high definition format will prevail, if the data is correct, then it appears that Blu-ray is well on its way to becoming the format of choice.
As the Home Media article points out, despite the fact that Blu-ray was two months later to market than HD DVD, it has now taken a clear lead in number of discs sold. In addition, there is evidence to suggest that that Blu-ray is outselling HD DVD on titles released in both formats.
Blu-ray would also appear to have the advantage in backing from the major movie studios, with Disney, Sony and Fox not bothering to release titles in HD DVD, while Universal continues to snub Blu-ray in favor of HD DVD. However, with Blu-ray outselling or at least matching HD DVD sales, it is open to question whether Universal can afford to maintain that stance.
There is an argument that Blu-ray sales are being somehow artificially inflated by sales of the new Sony games console PlayStation 3, which incorporates a Blu-ray player. While there is no doubt that PS3 sales are helping to get Blu-ray players into the homes of consumers, the Home Media data focuses on sales of movie titles not players. If the data is correct, then HD DVD could be on the ropes. The coming quarter could reveal much about whether the format war is coming to an end or continues to rage.
As the Home Media article points out, despite the fact that Blu-ray was two months later to market than HD DVD, it has now taken a clear lead in number of discs sold. In addition, there is evidence to suggest that that Blu-ray is outselling HD DVD on titles released in both formats.
Gotta love one sided articles. Planet Earth HD DVD has been outselling the Blu-ray version for quite some time. Nice fact checking from this author. Even know it's damn near neck and neck with HD DVD PE ranked #5 and Blu-ray ranked #6.
This is important to me and impressive as we know that there are only 100k US players (standalone) and likely another 80k or so Xbox add ons. The entired HD DVD market me be at tops 400k playback devices in the US.
Now juxtapose that to over a million PS3 in homes most likely and you see that HD DVD players do indeed deliver markedly better attach rates of movies to players. This is important because when final confirmation comes in that Walmart is bringing in 2 million low cost players late this year into the next you see that it will have a profound impact on HD DVD movie sales as these are all standalone players dedicated to viewing HD content.
Articles like this smack of Sony's "The War is Over" proclamation after CES. I've read countless articles that spew out statistics and ratios ad naseum yet they never seem to explain to the readers about how few titles were released on HD DVD in March. It was virtually a release free month yet Blu-ray only eeked out a 2:1 advantage in sale? That's underperforming.
Ummm
Toshiba was first to 100k standalone players. Even at a surplus of 4 studios and millions of players, Blu-ray barely eeks out a slim margin of sales.
It's pretty easy to add a bunch of
Jesus Christ...another useless stat. Blu-Ray is outselling HD-DVD by a sizeable margin and has been for at least 3 months. That is the number that matters. Not attach rates or standalone players or whatever other pathetic and desparate stat you'll come up with next. Pretty soon it will be "HD-DVD outsells Blu-Ray in hidef players that are not black and sold only at Circuit City on Wednesdays when it's raining outside"
And no..I truly have NO IDEA how it will all turn out. HD-DVD could turn it around, and if it does I will be the first to say so once I'm convinced it's happening. Once HD-DVD outsells Blu-Ray significantly for 3-6 months or so...then I'll be convinced it's a real battle.
Until then, the only reasonable prediction is that Blu-Ray will "win" based on the current numbers. Anything else is literally wishful thinking.
Bite, I know you're talking about users here but the real hardcore zealots are the equipment manufactures and studios trying to push an HD format down consumers throats, especially when it's not clear whether consumers really want this or not.
Your last sentence is patently absurd, when it came to the SD-DVD format manufacturers and studios saw the chance to replacate the success of CDs in the audio sector, where people in most cases almost entirely replaced their LP holdings, plus a chance to get movie ownership into the average home, something the paltry sales of VHS and laserdiscs were unable to do.
So basically in neither case was this driven by what consumers wanted.
Since when were VHS sales "paltry" before DVDs came out to the mass market? Where are you getting that? Also, I disagree with you on the consumers not driving the market. Consumers saw vastly improved picture and sound quality, a reasonable price and compact size with DVD. Laserdisc and VHS failed in at least one or even two of those areas as well.
Gotta love one sided articles. Planet Earth HD DVD has been outselling the Blu-ray version for quite some time. Nice fact checking from this author. Even know it's damn near neck and neck with HD DVD PE ranked #5 and Blu-ray ranked #6.
And everybody only shops at Amazon? You know the difference between rank 10 and 6?
And everybody only shops at Amazon? You know the difference between rank 10 and 6?
Yes 4 spots. The numbers at this point are irrelevant.
Yes 4 spots. The numbers at this point are irrelevant.
No, the numbers are the only thing that is relevant, not SALES RANK. C'mon man, get your head out. I know you're all "Talk to me goose" flustered with Blu-ray dominating all this year, but it is time to engage damnit!
No, the numbers are the only thing that is relevant, not SALES RANK. C'mon man, get your head out. I know you're all "Talk to me goose" flustered with Blu-ray dominating all this year, but it is time to engage damnit!
"dominating" is a strong word since both formats are still fledgling IMO. I don't think we've seen HD DVDs main thrust for the year. Q2 is when the Reference Platform players are due based on MS Win CE 6/Broadcom BCM7440. There are at least 4 players coming and if Wal-Mart is indeed planning on 2 million players then clearly the battle will take another turn as they will certainly plan on selling content (probably pretty cheaply).
I LOVE this battle. The war isn't even a year old and players have already dropped almost %40 and by years end they'll have dropped %50 or more from the launch. Consumers haven't had such a rapid decline in player pricing in recent history.
Yes 4 spots. The numbers at this point are irrelevant.
The ranks are absolutely irrelevant since they don't say much about how much they sell. Number 10 could sell 100 copies that day and muber 6 could sell 101.
No question to go through the post labyrinth of this thread, but who will explain to me poor ignorant what's going on here? Why such a polarization in this topic? Whichever the winner-format, is not finally the customer who finally gains? Or are you investors?
Its like PC vs Mac vs Linux.
PC = DVD, Mac = BluRay, Linux = HD-DVD
Vinea
No question to go through the post labyrinth of this thread, but who will explain to me poor ignorant what's going on here? Why such a polarization in this topic? Whichever the winner-format, is not finally the customer who finally gains? Or are you investors?
I think the chasm in this topic boils down to a difference in philosophy--should we have a product that can be the best that it can be given the current state of advanced technology (Blu-ray), or should we settle for a product that is "good enough" (HD DVD)? I prefer the former,..let's get it right the first time and not bother with a transitional format in HD DVD that is just "good enough."
I think the same can be said in Vinea's comparison with PC vs Mac vs Linux. I thought this one hit the nail right on the head and was a very good example.
Folks like Marzetta7 will only look at a couple of attributes of a format and attribute them as overall superiority. Blu-ray does indeed have more storage and more bandwidth. That does make it superior in areas where these two attributes are limiting factors.
The reality though (and this has been adequately proven) is that your typical feature length film can adequately be captured with full fidelity with 30GB of data. Happy Feet looks and sounds phenomenal.
Upon deeper inspection of the Blu-ray specification it became clear to me that the hardware was seriously deficient. Few network capable drives, lack of dual audio and video decoders hampers the ability for the player to internally mix video and audio elements for Interactivity and proper sound output. BD-Java seemed like overkill for an interactive layer. Think about how many Java apps you love to use today. Limewire, Azureous etc. They are all SLOW. No persistent storage.
Blu-ray is rectifiying these issues with a 1.1 Profile due in October which "almost" brings it inline with HD DVD spec 2006. So basically with Blu-ray we have a "hot engine" in a dud of a chassis.
HD DVD is making changes of their own. They've started the process of ratifying a Triple Layer 51GB disc. I don't know the ramifications of these discs regarding playability in today's players but even if TL51 is difficult I'd welcome the DL34GB potential just for breathing room.
I've read people say that Blu-ray is designed to last 10yrs while HD DVD is not. That's foolish and ignorant of how codec evolution really works. Both formats use the same exact codecs. I've long said that the trend with codecs is more fidelity at lower bitrates and I'm constantly rebuffed. What did Apple announce at NAB2007. A new codec that can deliver "visually lossless" picture quality at SD rates. Again corroborating my premise that the trend is clearly reducing datarates.
Red Code (the 4k Red One camera codec) uses Wavelet compression (a la Pixlet or Jpeg2000) and it and Cineform also do a damn good job of compression with very few artififacts. This is important because I believe that we may have a high end niche format in 10 years that delivers 4k content on disc. We need a technology that can handle about 100GB of storage and 100Mbps throughput.
The encoding format could be h.265 or a form of wavelet compression. Both will be in full swing in probably 5-6 yrs delivering better compression than what we have today. I'd also like to see the next optical format deliver 10-bit.
The reality though (and this has been adequately proven) is that your typical feature length film can adequately be captured with full fidelity with 30GB of data.
But some us want more than adequate. Try and read the reviews of DéjÃ* Vu which has a higher bitrate than HD DVD allows.
HD DVD is making changes of their own. They've started the process of ratifying a Triple Layer 51GB disc. I don't know the ramifications of these discs regarding playability in today's players but even if TL51 is difficult I'd welcome the DL34GB potential just for breathing room.
I thought 30GB was enough? 51GB will finally bring HD DVD inline with Blu-ray, but it might make every single HD DVD player out there obsolete - and this time it really is obsolete.
http://forums.highdefdigest.com/showthread.php?t=6730
Originally Posted by JadedRaverLA
Yet another update to the most misreported (or at least mistranslated) story of the year:
As has been reported here (and everywhere else) Engadget got ahold of a press release, apparently from Chinese manufacturer Fuh Yuan, indicating that Walmart had placed an order for 2,000,000 HD DVD players, which was then later retracted due to an odd translation, leading some to think that Walmart was instead ordering Blu-ray players. What remained odd was that no press release was ever issued by Walmart, the HD DVD or Blu-ray promotions groups, or anyone else who would be involved. Fuh Yuan also failed to clarify this "story" and industry "insiders" posting on internet messageboards had no idea what was happening.
A CED Industry Newsletter that was posted in the news section here, is now apparently reporting the following:
Sources we queried who are familiar with HD DVD licensing and Chinese OEMs were flummoxed by the reports. Neither Fuh Yuan nor Great Wall appear on any rosters of DVD and HD DVD licensees. Our search of major English-language newspapers and news services in Taiwan, China and Hong Kong didn't turn up any reports on Fuh Yuan or Great Wall or the purported deal with Wal-Mart. From translations of the Fuh Yuan announcement we've seen, it was part of a ramp-up for an IPO the company will launch in July.
And now Engadget has posted a retraction of the earlier article here
The biggest news to hit the format war in some time hit last week with word that Wal-Mart and China's Great Wall corporation struck a deal to bring inexpensive HD DVD players to market. While this is would be great news for all HD fans, we were left a bit worrisome by the translation dispute between the two camps. Just to make sure we had our facts straight, we updated the post and contacted HD DVD to get the full story. While the HD DVD camp reminded us that they have inexpensive players from China on the way, they weren't able to confirm any "specific reports relating to Wal-Mart". It seems to us that if this were indeed true, that the HD DVD camp would be the first to trumpet its significance to their success in the format war. As much as we all want inexpensive next generation HD disc players, we will just have to wait for something more official before we hold off on our purchases waiting for Wal-Mart.
So, who knows what's going on with this? As much attention as this has gotten, it really doesn't bode well for the integrity of Engadget that they've essentially retracted this story twice: once to say it "might" be Blu-ray players, and now a second time saying the whole deal might not exist.
Could this release have been the optimistic writings of a pre-IPO Chinese company that HOPES to get enough money in an IPO to produce HD DVD players, which they THINK they can make very cheaply, and that they HOPE to sell to Walmart? That's definitely a different story, altogether.
Engadget isn't Cnet but a rumor like this that was blatantly false would indeed be shut down by a player like Wal-Mart.
Their silence in this matter is deafening.
Frankly I'd say $299 in 2008 for an HD-DVD player is kind of expensive for Wal-Mart's clientele so I wouldn't be buy the story. Look at where prices are now for the entry level and do you really believe they'll only be $299? Even Sony has said they expect Blu-Ray players near that price by year end.
Blu-ray will have to be around $299 by years end if they want to keep competiting strongly. The problem is the player pricing will go up with profile 1.1 persistent storage devices IMO. We'll see what they can do.
I think Xmas will deliver $199 HD DVD players on sale. The rumored PR release from the Chinese companie pegs the costs ridiculously low. We'll have to see if this rumor cuts muster or not. I have my doubts but Wal-Mart hasn't denied it yet.
http://www.forbes.com/technology/fee...fx3653006.html
TOKYO (XFN-ASIA) - Toshiba Corp aims to sell around 3 mln players compatible with the HD DVD next-generation optical disc format in the current year to March 2008, up sharply from the 250,000 units it sold last fiscal year, the Nikkei financial daily reported, without citing sources.
The global market for next-generation DVD players is seen at 4-5 mln units in fiscal 2007, with Toshiba (other-otc: TOSBF.PK - news - people ) seeking a 60-70 pct share, the Nikkei said.
It would take some BIG deals to hit that number