AT&T not planning to subsidize iPhone?

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  • Reply 41 of 116
    tbagginstbaggins Posts: 2,306member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jcatma61 View Post


    Dunno about anyone else, but that makes great sense to me, and it's how everyone else outside the U.S. markets is doing it now. In Australia, for instance, you pay full fare for the hardware -- which may or may not be sold by the carrier -- and then you pay a much lower monthly rate.



    I wish that model was catching on in the US. Phone reliability would probably go way up, because consumers would likely refuse to accept poor phone reliability/quality if they had to pay full boat for the hardware.



    Sadly, that model doesn't seem to be gaining traction in the US. It seems easier to get Joe Sixpack to sign up if you wave a 'FREE' phone in his face. Plus, the need to pay off the phone subsidy over time provides justification for the contracts consumer are placed under and which carriers love, since they 'lock in' their customer base reliably ("Hey look, even if our service sucks for a few months its okay, they can't jump ship unless they pay a big fat early termination fee! Muhahaha!").



    If the phone isn't subsidized, then the justification for contracts disappears, as there's zero benefit for the customer for being in a contract then- only a benefit for the carrier. \



    .
  • Reply 42 of 116
    physguyphysguy Posts: 920member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by EagerDragon View Post


    I currently have a Treo 650 with Sprint. Their data plan (all you can eat) is only 15 dollars a month if I remeber correctly.



    Minutes are minutes regardless of phone so I expect the same price for that plan, but the amount of Internet access is likely to increase with the iPhone.



    Anyone can answer: What does the data plan for AT&T/Cingular (all you can eat) cost for a similar (Treo/Blackberry) phone?



    Let's check these things out first. The unlimited data plan at sprint is $39.99/month for two year contract.
  • Reply 43 of 116
    For the dumbass that said Apple wants to price the iPhone so that everyone couldn't get, you must think this is early 2k. Apple has learned their lesson about the "BMW" comparison. Their computers are priced so everyone can get one, the iPod is priced to everyone can get one. Why would they not want everyone to have a phone. They could give 2 shits about you felling hight and mighty because you can get a phone, as long as they money hand over fist.
  • Reply 44 of 116
    tbagginstbaggins Posts: 2,306member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by timewarp424 View Post


    I think there's a sweet spot in price when it comes to hot items. This isn't hitting it.



    I think you're going to be shocked at how well the iPhone sells at its 'non-sweet' price points. At least through the end of the year.



    Quote:

    And I knew that about moto. But they've made more cellphones than apple. Even knowing your fact, I would still trust them more.



    Then you're a lot more forgiving than many people. If it was me, I'd take the new guy over the old guy that has a track record of burning me.



    .
  • Reply 45 of 116
    crebcreb Posts: 276member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by EagerDragon View Post


    Anyone can answer: What does the data plan for AT&T/Cingular (all you can eat) cost for a similar (Treo/Blackberry) phone?



    These details are not being released as of yet as they specifically relate to the iPhone. They remain behind closed doors.
  • Reply 46 of 116
    extremeskaterextremeskater Posts: 2,248member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Clive At Five View Post


    Is this not the very same news that we've been hearing from day one? What is not to understand about this?



    Apple said no subsidies early on. I don't see why this is so hard for people to understand...







    -Clive



    I don't believe it's hard for people to understand, it's my opinion that as the launch gets closer many realized that the entire cell phone market is based off cheap/free phones in order to get long term contracts that has always been the trade off. Its never been about making money off the phones, its about making money off the service. Apple is attempting to make money off the phones and for some reason cingular bought into this.



    It's also my opinion that Cingular will use Apple to bait and switch, the iPhone will be a great marketing tool to get customers into the store and then sell them something else with a nice 2 year contract, which is what Cingular wants the new contracts they can care less about selling iphones thats not what makes them money.



    Yet again my opinion is that a 600.00 phone on top of being locked into a 2 year contract can not do well, at least in the US.



    Also factor in that Verizon is still the leading network and they tag anyone with 175.00 early termination fee. So if Cingular is looking or switchers in contact you are talking well over 800.00 by the time everything is said and done. That just isn't going to happen for a cell phone, even more so when most of the people that want it have to rely on their parents to buy it.



    Overall its an uphill battle unless there is a major price drop.
  • Reply 47 of 116
    extremeskaterextremeskater Posts: 2,248member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post


    Elitist? You're right. That's exactly the core market out the door for iPhone.



    So are you saying its a good idea to market to the smallest demographic? Thats like nvidia trying to market the 8800 card for high level pc gaming when you could by an entire ps3 for the same price as a video card.
  • Reply 48 of 116
    eagerdragoneagerdragon Posts: 318member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by CREB View Post


    These details are not being released as of yet as they specifically relate to the iPhone. They remain behind closed doors.



    Not saying iPhone, I mean any other phone.
  • Reply 49 of 116
    jcatma61jcatma61 Posts: 37member
    Quote:

    Also factor in that Verizon is still the leading network and they tag anyone with 175.00 early termination fee. So if Cingular is looking or switchers in contact you are talking well over 800.00 by the time everything is said and done. That just isn't going to happen for a cell phone, even more so when most of the people that want it have to rely on their parents to buy it.



    That's fine. What's not been directly refuted (even answered directly) is the notion that ATT may offer steep discounts in its service plan and make the downstroke issues simply go away. This, we Americans understand, and deal with in other categories nicely (think auto buying and all the retail "finance offers" out there that we go for all the time).



    So here's the proposition for those of you not selling for a living:

    "If I could get you to take the best phone/pda technology platform in the world -- bar none -- and then lower your monthly fees for an extended period... even build in something that takes away the contract termination fees... wouldn't you want to take one home today?"



    who-t-f would not go for it?
  • Reply 50 of 116
    SpamSandwichSpamSandwich Posts: 33,407member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post


    So are you saying its a good idea to market to the smallest demographic? Thats like nvidia trying to market the 8800 card for high level pc gaming when you could by an entire ps3 for the same price as a video card.



    No, I'm saying it's marketing to the Porsche and Ferrari crowd, something most of us can only wish to be... it's called 'aspirational' marketing.
  • Reply 51 of 116
    tbagginstbaggins Posts: 2,306member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post


    It's also my opinion that Cingular will use Apple to bait and switch, the iPhone will be a great marketing tool to get customers into the store and then sell them something else with a nice 2 year contract, which is what Cingular wants the new contracts they can care less about selling iphones thats not what makes them money.



    Cingular will do both. They'll try to sell iPhones because the kind of customer that wants an iPhone is exactly the kind of customer they want... high-end, and probably a data plan user on top of it. And yeah, they will also use the iPhone as a 'flagship' product, to get butts in the front door whom they'll sell on other phones if the iPhone is too pricey for them. Win-win, far as ATT is concerned.



    Quote:

    Yet again my opinion is that a 600.00 phone on top of being locked into a 2 year contract can not do well, at least in the US.



    Also factor in that Verizon is still the leading network and they tag anyone with 175.00 early termination fee. So if Cingular is looking or switchers in contact you are talking well over 800.00 by the time everything is said and done. That just isn't going to happen for a cell phone, even more so when most of the people that want it have to rely on their parents to buy it.



    Overall its an uphill battle unless there is a major price drop.



    One thing you have to realize is that every month, something like 10 million US wireless consumers come off their contracts, due to the term simply being up (which is around 60 million people from June through the end of '07). There isn't a customer shortage here, at least not for the kind of numbers Apple is trying to sell initially.



    When Apple eventually goes mass-market with the iPhone, then its a potential bottleneck, but by then Apple will likely be selling through more carriers than just Cingular/ATT (no matter what the rumors are about the exclusivity clause in the contract with ATT- the exact details have been kept intentionally vague by both Apple and ATT... read between the lines).



    I think you'll be very surprised at how well the iPhone does.



    .
  • Reply 52 of 116
    Go google search G4 Cube.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post


    No, I'm saying it's marketing to the Porsche and Ferrari crowd, something most of us can only wish to be... it's called 'aspirational' marketing.



  • Reply 53 of 116
    caliminiuscaliminius Posts: 944member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BlackSummerNight View Post


    For the dumbass that said Apple wants to price the iPhone so that everyone couldn't get, you must think this is early 2k. Apple has learned their lesson about the "BMW" comparison. Their computers are priced so everyone can get one



    You consider $599 minimum for a computer that doesn't include any of the essentials beyond a power cord priced for everyone? I certainly don't.



    To buy a "complete" Mac Mini from Apple costs $1276:

    Mac Mini $599

    20" Cinema Display $599

    Apple Keyboard and Mouse $78



    Want a DVD burner with that? Add another $200 to that price tag.



    Yes, the price before the DVD burner already crossed over into being cheaper to buy the $1199 17" iMac with generally better specs.



    Exactly where is that price everyone can afford?
  • Reply 54 of 116
    jeffdmjeffdm Posts: 12,951member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jcatma61 View Post


    So here's the proposition for those of you not selling for a living:

    "If I could get you to take the best phone/pda technology platform in the world -- bar none -- and then lower your monthly fees for an extended period... even build in something that takes away the contract termination fees... wouldn't you want to take one home today?"



    So far, I don't remember any rumor touching on any changes to the termination fee.
  • Reply 55 of 116
    extremeskaterextremeskater Posts: 2,248member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jcatma61 View Post


    That's fine. What's not been directly refuted (even answered directly) is the notion that ATT may offer steep discounts in its service plan and make the downstroke issues simply go away. This, we Americans understand, and deal with in other categories nicely (think auto buying and all the retail "finance offers" out there that we go for all the time).



    So here's the proposition for those of you not selling for a living:

    "If I could get you to take the best phone/pda technology platform in the world -- bar none -- and then lower your monthly fees for an extended period... even build in something that takes away the contract termination fees... wouldn't you want to take one home today?"



    who-t-f would not go for it?





    In the US I wish they would just switch to just outright buying the hardware of choice and lowering the cell phone plans. The problem is the method is just so deeply set right now that people expect cheap/free phones, its like a culture.



    I also don't believe Cingular can lower rates for only one product, there would be no incentive for them to do so because Cingular is making very little if anyting off the iphone for them all the money is in the contract. I still believe they are going to use the iphone to get people into the store and then sell them something cheaper with a long term contract.



    I could certainly be wrong but it wouldnt shock me at all.
  • Reply 56 of 116
    extremeskaterextremeskater Posts: 2,248member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post


    No, I'm saying it's marketing to the Porsche and Ferrari crowd, something most of us can only wish to be... it's called 'aspirational' marketing.



    After I went back and read your post again, I figured thats what you ment.
  • Reply 57 of 116
    extremeskaterextremeskater Posts: 2,248member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TBaggins View Post


    One thing you have to realize is that every month, something like 10 million US wireless consumers come off their contracts, due to the term simply being up (which is around 60 million people from June through the end of '07). There isn't a customer shortage here, at least not for the kind of numbers Apple is trying to sell initially.



    I don't disagree with that however many of those are 12 year old kids on their parents family plan. Cell phones are yet another product that has become a false "need" for many what most are looking for is to just have a cell phone, as long as it can make calls, txt msg and take stupid pictures thats all they care about.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TBaggins View Post


    When Apple eventually goes mass-market with the iPhone, then its a potential bottleneck, but by then Apple will likely be selling through more carriers than just Cingular/ATT (no matter what the rumors are about the exclusivity clause in the contract with ATT- the exact details have been kept intentionally vague by both Apple and ATT... read between the lines).



    I think you'll be very surprised at how well the iPhone does.



    .



    Well Apple will have to change there outlook if they want to go mass market because Cingular is the only one that would agree to this deal, they were told to go pound sand by Verizon.



    We can all guess at this point what kind of market share this phone will capture, im very interested to see how it does.
  • Reply 58 of 116
    spindriftspindrift Posts: 674member
    I don't see service providers offering lower monthly call charges, but I do see Apple imposing some kind of inclusive data allowance. Apple will want their users to be able to get full use out of the iPhone from the start. If people have to pay top end for the phone, then that's fine, but they won't sell many if people aren't then willing to use the features they are paying for.



    I really don't understand why some people say that they are staying clear of the gen 1 iPhone. I replace my phone every year, sometimes more, so if a second gen iPhone comes out 12 months later then I'll upgrade. I would rather have the early technology and enjoy it than hold out for a 3.2 mega pixel camera which I won't use any more than the current offering. Granted I live in the UK, so in reality my phone will quite likely be a 3G gen 2 handset anyway by the time we get it at the end of the year!
  • Reply 59 of 116
    physguyphysguy Posts: 920member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post


    In the US I wish they would just switch to just outright buying the hardware of choice and lowering the cell phone plans. The problem is the method is just so deeply set right now that people expect cheap/free phones, its like a culture.



    I also don't believe Cingular can lower rates for only one product, there would be no incentive for them to do so because Cingular is making very little if anyting off the iphone for them all the money is in the contract. I still believe they are going to use the iphone to get people into the store and then sell them something cheaper with a long term contract.



    I could certainly be wrong but it wouldnt shock me at all.



    I think you have logic backward wrt lower rate. Cingular is SPENDING nothing on the iPhone as opposed to paying motorola or others for the privilege of giving away their phones. This is why you have to pay tax on the list price, not the final price. Since Cingular/AT&T is SAVING money by offering the iPhone they COULD lower the plan price. No reason they can't have a specific plan for the iPhone. Don't know if they will but it would make sense to do so.
  • Reply 60 of 116
    tbagginstbaggins Posts: 2,306member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post


    I don't disagree with that however many of those are 12 year old kids on their parents family plan.



    Not enough to make a game-changing difference. Most people aged 18-60 have a cellphone... the US has 236 million wireless customers, out of a population a bit north of 300 million.



    Thus, its very hard, to the point of impossibility, for the 'kiddie' market to swamp numbers that are that huge.



    .
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