Hmm. Jury's out on how useful it'd be, although I think that it might be cumbersome to have to turn the thing over. But really, how often do you look at your mouse when you're using the computer? It may really be a good interface if done correctly.
That said, if they don't give it a QWERTY keyboard, I'll pass. Those alphabetic ones drive me apeschmidt.
Secondly there's absolutly no reason why any of the motions would be reversed. The rotation is controlled by software, not hardware.
The iPod has never had a cursor, but the patent specifically mentions using it for cursor control. Thus my coments about whether it acts like a mouse and stops moving or would jump if the finger was lifted and relocated.
And with an on-screen click wheel, pushing the back of the device to lower the volume by making a counter-clockwise circle of what is on-screen actual involves moving your finger in what on the front side is a clockwise motion. Thus the controls would end being backwards.
Like others have said, either an "iPhone Nano" or a "cover your bases"
-Clive
This is funny, what happened to its the most popular mp3 player because its simple. Another Steve Jobs move of ragging on MS for trying to put too many features on the Zune and now he is going to do the same thing. I love when he does this.
Its hard to say without trying it of course, but its really just like using a mouse. With a mouse theres a "disconnect" between your actions and the screen, but we all manage to cope with that fine... I'm sure that if we ever see an Apple device based on this patent, it'll work pretty well.
anything that requires you to move your non-thumb fingers (while holding something) is tough...i don't understand how this could work \
EXACTLY! Just grab your iPod for a second. Your one opposable thumb does all the work, the other four fingers just grip the thing. Now hold it the same way, but instead try to articulate your four fingers on the back... I find myself either gripping it with my thumb on the front or balancing the whole thing on my pinky finger. The only action I can do is a horizontal slide across the back, I definitely can't do any sort of click wheel motion.
I feel like this patent might just be blatant disinformation.
If this were done, it would only be good for the top half of the screen. if you're holding it at it's base, you're fingers can't reach the bottom. That, and everything being backwards, and confusion about how on earth to operate the thing... this idea will never see the light of day.
Odds are Apple has thought all of this through, and this patent was filed simply to cover the *general* idea behind it - input by the backside.
"In one embodiment of the invention, Apple said it could incorporate the functionality of click-wheel on the device's force-sensitive touch-surface via an etched or raised outline. When the user activates the rear-side click-wheel, a navigation menu and click-wheel will be shown on the front side."
The simple ideas are always the best, ingenious, good Job John.
Could be a cover your butt patent so as to make it virtualy impossible for someone to get a decent interface that provides reasonable useful controls.
We may see more of these in the future if these are cover your butt patents, each covering all the possible ways to get a decent interface (they thought or tried it in the lab before they settled on one). This way they can lock everyone else out or they have to pay a license.
They did say they had like 200 patents on the iPhone, this maybe but one, more may be found soon.
You guys aren't getting it. It's not two devices in one, it's one device viewed from the front but operated from the back.
It is essentially a screen on the front and a graphics tablet on the back.
I generally have a jaundiced eye when it comes to <BigSarcasticAirQuotes>inventions</BigSarcasticAirQuotes> (a lot of them are WAY OBVIOUS, MAN), but this one gets a thumbs up from me.
I tried that ... I glued a wacom tablet to the back of my laptop. It did not worked well and I end up with a sticky bun, LOL. Kidding.
EXACTLY! Just grab your iPod for a second. Your one opposable thumb does all the work, the other four fingers just grip the thing. Now hold it the same way, but instead try to articulate your four fingers on the back... I find myself either gripping it with my thumb on the front or balancing the whole thing on my pinky finger. The only action I can do is a horizontal slide across the back, I definitely can't do any sort of click wheel motion.
I feel like this patent might just be blatant disinformation.
Try using the index finger (to rub around) on the back of you iPod, in my case I get a lot of freedom of movement that could have been interpreted as directions to the software on the iPod. Very doa-able IMHO. Up/down and left right is easy with the index finger behind the iPod, circullar movement is a little harder but is fairly smouth to do.
EXACTLY! Just grab your iPod for a second. Your one opposable thumb does all the work, the other four fingers just grip the thing. Now hold it the same way, but instead try to articulate your four fingers on the back... I find myself either gripping it with my thumb on the front or balancing the whole thing on my pinky finger. The only action I can do is a horizontal slide across the back, I definitely can't do any sort of click wheel motion.
Ah, but you're thinking of the "old" way of scrolling your iPod. Look at how you scroll through songs on the new iPhone. You simply flick your index finger up or down...and tap. Very easy to do with one hand. When you turn it in landscape mode, then you use two hands. Possibly using your index finger and thumb of one hand to hold it and the index or middle finger of the other to flick and tap. Try it.
So much for all those smudges everyone was loosing sleep over.
It seems obvious to me that this was a pre-multi touch interface application. Apple has obviously settled on the touch-interface despite blocking and smudging. I can't see why they'd take a step back to this solution - which is hardly ideal from a user perspective.
No, that's not what it's talking about. You wouldn't have to flip anything over. Imagine holding your iPod (in landscape view) then instead of having the touch sensitive jog wheel on the front, it will be on the back and sensitive to your fingers touch. The display will indicate your actions on the full size display.
Try using the index finger (to rub around) on the back of you iPod, in my case I get a lot of freedom of movement that could have been interpreted as directions to the software on the iPod. Very doa-able IMHO. Up/down and left right is easy with the index finger behind the iPod, circullar movement is a little harder but is fairly smouth to do.
That's right. I tried the same thing holding my Treo. My forefinger can give an easy circular motion, and tapping on a specific spot as well.
If a circular motion is used though, it has to be fairly small. No more than about 1.25", or 30mm. After that size, it becomes increasingly difficult.
It seems obvious to me that this was a pre-multi touch interface application. Apple has obviously settled on the touch-interface despite blocking and smudging. I can't see why they'd take a step back to this solution - which is hardly ideal from a user perspective.
It's still multi-touch, (if you can call it that), just not as complex as the iPhone's multi-touch.
There is quite a limited amount of things you can do with an iPod, but A LOT more things you can do with the iPhone. Therefore, this type of multi-touch (from the back) is well suited to an iPod, mostly scrolling and selecting. But would not be suited for something more complex like the iPhone where you need to type (SMS), dial a number not in your address book, "pinch-zoom"...etc.
Comments
That said, if they don't give it a QWERTY keyboard, I'll pass. Those alphabetic ones drive me apeschmidt.
First off since when has an iPod had a cursor?
Secondly there's absolutly no reason why any of the motions would be reversed. The rotation is controlled by software, not hardware.
The iPod has never had a cursor, but the patent specifically mentions using it for cursor control. Thus my coments about whether it acts like a mouse and stops moving or would jump if the finger was lifted and relocated.
And with an on-screen click wheel, pushing the back of the device to lower the volume by making a counter-clockwise circle of what is on-screen actual involves moving your finger in what on the front side is a clockwise motion. Thus the controls would end being backwards.
ingenious.
Like others have said, either an "iPhone Nano" or a "cover your bases"
-Clive
This is funny, what happened to its the most popular mp3 player because its simple. Another Steve Jobs move of ragging on MS for trying to put too many features on the Zune and now he is going to do the same thing. I love when he does this.
anything that requires you to move your non-thumb fingers (while holding something) is tough...i don't understand how this could work
EXACTLY! Just grab your iPod for a second. Your one opposable thumb does all the work, the other four fingers just grip the thing. Now hold it the same way, but instead try to articulate your four fingers on the back... I find myself either gripping it with my thumb on the front or balancing the whole thing on my pinky finger. The only action I can do is a horizontal slide across the back, I definitely can't do any sort of click wheel motion.
I feel like this patent might just be blatant disinformation.
iPhone nano here we come.
Odds are Apple has thought all of this through, and this patent was filed simply to cover the *general* idea behind it - input by the backside.
"In one embodiment of the invention, Apple said it could incorporate the functionality of click-wheel on the device's force-sensitive touch-surface via an etched or raised outline. When the user activates the rear-side click-wheel, a navigation menu and click-wheel will be shown on the front side."
The simple ideas are always the best, ingenious, good Job John.
We may see more of these in the future if these are cover your butt patents, each covering all the possible ways to get a decent interface (they thought or tried it in the lab before they settled on one). This way they can lock everyone else out or they have to pay a license.
They did say they had like 200 patents on the iPhone, this maybe but one, more may be found soon.
You guys aren't getting it. It's not two devices in one, it's one device viewed from the front but operated from the back.
It is essentially a screen on the front and a graphics tablet on the back.
I generally have a jaundiced eye when it comes to <BigSarcasticAirQuotes>inventions</BigSarcasticAirQuotes> (a lot of them are WAY OBVIOUS, MAN), but this one gets a thumbs up from me.
I tried that ... I glued a wacom tablet to the back of my laptop. It did not worked well and I end up with a sticky bun, LOL. Kidding.
EXACTLY! Just grab your iPod for a second. Your one opposable thumb does all the work, the other four fingers just grip the thing. Now hold it the same way, but instead try to articulate your four fingers on the back... I find myself either gripping it with my thumb on the front or balancing the whole thing on my pinky finger. The only action I can do is a horizontal slide across the back, I definitely can't do any sort of click wheel motion.
I feel like this patent might just be blatant disinformation.
Try using the index finger (to rub around) on the back of you iPod, in my case I get a lot of freedom of movement that could have been interpreted as directions to the software on the iPod. Very doa-able IMHO. Up/down and left right is easy with the index finger behind the iPod, circullar movement is a little harder but is fairly smouth to do.
EXACTLY! Just grab your iPod for a second. Your one opposable thumb does all the work, the other four fingers just grip the thing. Now hold it the same way, but instead try to articulate your four fingers on the back... I find myself either gripping it with my thumb on the front or balancing the whole thing on my pinky finger. The only action I can do is a horizontal slide across the back, I definitely can't do any sort of click wheel motion.
Ah, but you're thinking of the "old" way of scrolling your iPod. Look at how you scroll through songs on the new iPhone. You simply flick your index finger up or down...and tap. Very easy to do with one hand. When you turn it in landscape mode, then you use two hands. Possibly using your index finger and thumb of one hand to hold it and the index or middle finger of the other to flick and tap. Try it.
So much for all those smudges everyone was loosing sleep over.
No, that's not what it's talking about. You wouldn't have to flip anything over. Imagine holding your iPod (in landscape view) then instead of having the touch sensitive jog wheel on the front, it will be on the back and sensitive to your fingers touch. The display will indicate your actions on the full size display.
It seems to be that to me as well.
Try using the index finger (to rub around) on the back of you iPod, in my case I get a lot of freedom of movement that could have been interpreted as directions to the software on the iPod. Very doa-able IMHO. Up/down and left right is easy with the index finger behind the iPod, circullar movement is a little harder but is fairly smouth to do.
That's right. I tried the same thing holding my Treo. My forefinger can give an easy circular motion, and tapping on a specific spot as well.
If a circular motion is used though, it has to be fairly small. No more than about 1.25", or 30mm. After that size, it becomes increasingly difficult.
It seems obvious to me that this was a pre-multi touch interface application. Apple has obviously settled on the touch-interface despite blocking and smudging. I can't see why they'd take a step back to this solution - which is hardly ideal from a user perspective.
It's still multi-touch, (if you can call it that), just not as complex as the iPhone's multi-touch.
There is quite a limited amount of things you can do with an iPod, but A LOT more things you can do with the iPhone. Therefore, this type of multi-touch (from the back) is well suited to an iPod, mostly scrolling and selecting. But would not be suited for something more complex like the iPhone where you need to type (SMS), dial a number not in your address book, "pinch-zoom"...etc.
If a circular motion is used though, it has to be fairly small. No more than about 1.25", or 30mm. After that size, it becomes increasingly difficult.
Why circular motion? Think iPhone navigation. Flick and tap.