Another: Lousy Apple Retail Exp...but this time....
Hey all,
Most of you that read me know I get pretty pissed about Apple's attitude towards costumers and know I've had my issues with Apple Retail lately. The last time it was a ridiculous return policy...
Well I finally decided that my Airport Express just couldn't handle my apartment anymore. This was the one I tried to exchange a few months ago because it kept dropping out. They checked it out (after I had to make an appointment to try and exchange it under warranty) and said it was fine. It's been getting worse, so after a lot of looking around, I decided I'd take one last Apple Router plunge. My experiences thus far have not been good.
Anyway...I went to the Apple Store KOP today and picked up an Airport Extreme 802.11n (see Current Hardware). I went up to where the line formed, at the checkout. There were people milling around, but other than a guy bringing in a G5 or service, I was next. I stood for what had to be 10 minutes without even being acknowledged. Another customer asked in an annoyed tone if anyone was checking people out. I told him this happens all the time....
Finally I saw an opening and said to this long haired scruffy looking dude..."uh, can someone check me out?" He said "sure." So I told him that this had happened to me before and I took issue with the fact that no one could even acknowledge a customer ready to buy something. He told me he understood but he asked me to "appreciate that he was in the middle of another sale." It was kind of snotty the way he said it. He finally checked me out and after 20 minutes or so total, I was out of there. He told me I could fill out a survey that was coming with my receipt. So I did.
I pretty much ripped the King of Prussia store from head to toe. I told them the truth...that I had been there at the store's opening, video camera in hand. I used to love going. Now I hate it. It's slow. The employees are arrogant. They look unprofessional....often unshaven with long hair and what not. Check out is always ridiculously slow. Policies on returns are utterly inflexible and unreasonable. I had rated several items 0-3 out of 10, but kept the product ratings at 9 or 10. Then it asked me if I wanted to be contacted by phone, and I entered my number. I was a little harsh in the comments boxes perhaps...I believe I used the phrase "Mr. Spikey Hair" at one point.
Well what do you know? About an hour later I got a phone message from Ryan...one of the store managers. He wanted to touch base with me about my experience. So I called him back, and actually got him on the phone. He was very professional and seemed honestly concerned about my experience. He explained they are doing away with the checkout and they are doing mobile checkout. I knew they did mobile, but it wasn't clear they had done away with dedicated cashiers. He was also concerned that I felt the store had gone down hill over the last year to two years and told me he took my concerns seriously and forwarded them to his entire team. One of things I focused on was the somewhat borderline-rude tone of the one employee when a customer complained. I believe I also mentioned the fact that everyone in the store seemed to be about 19 years old and as mentioned previously...didn't exactly look professional. I also apologized if I had been harsh in the comment boxes, but he seemed OK with that.
Anyway, it was a pleasant surprise to actually have a decent down to earth conversation with an Apple Retail employee. I can only hope they change and improve in these areas. He did say there was likely a remodel of the store coming, which I suppose will be good.
Your thoughts are of course welcome...
SDW
Most of you that read me know I get pretty pissed about Apple's attitude towards costumers and know I've had my issues with Apple Retail lately. The last time it was a ridiculous return policy...
Well I finally decided that my Airport Express just couldn't handle my apartment anymore. This was the one I tried to exchange a few months ago because it kept dropping out. They checked it out (after I had to make an appointment to try and exchange it under warranty) and said it was fine. It's been getting worse, so after a lot of looking around, I decided I'd take one last Apple Router plunge. My experiences thus far have not been good.
Anyway...I went to the Apple Store KOP today and picked up an Airport Extreme 802.11n (see Current Hardware). I went up to where the line formed, at the checkout. There were people milling around, but other than a guy bringing in a G5 or service, I was next. I stood for what had to be 10 minutes without even being acknowledged. Another customer asked in an annoyed tone if anyone was checking people out. I told him this happens all the time....
Finally I saw an opening and said to this long haired scruffy looking dude..."uh, can someone check me out?" He said "sure." So I told him that this had happened to me before and I took issue with the fact that no one could even acknowledge a customer ready to buy something. He told me he understood but he asked me to "appreciate that he was in the middle of another sale." It was kind of snotty the way he said it. He finally checked me out and after 20 minutes or so total, I was out of there. He told me I could fill out a survey that was coming with my receipt. So I did.
I pretty much ripped the King of Prussia store from head to toe. I told them the truth...that I had been there at the store's opening, video camera in hand. I used to love going. Now I hate it. It's slow. The employees are arrogant. They look unprofessional....often unshaven with long hair and what not. Check out is always ridiculously slow. Policies on returns are utterly inflexible and unreasonable. I had rated several items 0-3 out of 10, but kept the product ratings at 9 or 10. Then it asked me if I wanted to be contacted by phone, and I entered my number. I was a little harsh in the comments boxes perhaps...I believe I used the phrase "Mr. Spikey Hair" at one point.
Well what do you know? About an hour later I got a phone message from Ryan...one of the store managers. He wanted to touch base with me about my experience. So I called him back, and actually got him on the phone. He was very professional and seemed honestly concerned about my experience. He explained they are doing away with the checkout and they are doing mobile checkout. I knew they did mobile, but it wasn't clear they had done away with dedicated cashiers. He was also concerned that I felt the store had gone down hill over the last year to two years and told me he took my concerns seriously and forwarded them to his entire team. One of things I focused on was the somewhat borderline-rude tone of the one employee when a customer complained. I believe I also mentioned the fact that everyone in the store seemed to be about 19 years old and as mentioned previously...didn't exactly look professional. I also apologized if I had been harsh in the comment boxes, but he seemed OK with that.
Anyway, it was a pleasant surprise to actually have a decent down to earth conversation with an Apple Retail employee. I can only hope they change and improve in these areas. He did say there was likely a remodel of the store coming, which I suppose will be good.
Your thoughts are of course welcome...
SDW
Comments
he took my concerns seriously and forwarded them to his entire team.
If the retail experience was that bad then it quite clearly needed shaping up and it's good that people like you complain so that stores put in the effort to make the experience better. In the UK, people don't like to complain much. You said about some guy shouting after 10 minutes. Here in the UK, you'd probably get someone glancing at their watch after about half an hour or they'd just leave.
It doesn't leave a good impression so any improvement is welcome. I for one wish Apple would move away from using young people so much - take the recent Mac ad called genius. That girl in the ad does not look like a genius, she looks like Sarah Jessica Parker from Sex and the City and if Mac genius bars employ people like that then I'm frankly glad I don't use them.
If the retail experience was that bad then it quite clearly needed shaping up and it's good that people like you complain so that stores put in the effort to make the experience better. In the UK, people don't like to complain much. You said about some guy shouting after 10 minutes. Here in the UK, you'd probably get someone glancing at their watch after about half an hour or they'd just leave.
It doesn't leave a good impression so any improvement is welcome. I for one wish Apple would move away from using young people so much - take the recent Mac ad called genius. That girl in the ad does not look like a genius, she looks like Sarah Jessica Parker from Sex and the City and if Mac genius bars employ people like that then I'm frankly glad I don't use them.
Yeah..well the guy didn't shout..he just asked me in that "annoyed customer" voice and I agreed with him. But I totally agree..it needs to be a good experience. It has become a real annoyance to go there now. The only reason I do is that I can get something right now and use my hardware discount.
I like the genius girl for some reason. If the employees were like that, I'd be OK with it. But totally agree...there are too many toung people in general. I feel like the staff used to be a little older...some twenty and even thirty-somethings, with ocassional older manager. Now it really does seem like everyone is the stereotypical Mac guy that lives in his Mom's basement.
Good for you for complaining to them (instead of just whining on a forum, like most people do), and good for them for listening. Gotta have both to have progress.
Yeah I agree. I was actually really surprised he called me and I got him on the phone when I called back. He was really receptive...not argumentative in the slightest despite some reather hrash comments I made. He almost had me feeling bad! Apparently Apple Retail Managers have psychology degrees now?
As I think back to when the store opened though, the difference is quite striking. The employees are still knowledgable, but other than that it's all different. I guess I'm a few years older now so the young staff might bother me more...but I really think it's a different element now. I still remember this guy from two year ago at the holidays working the line outside the store. He had like red spikey hair, was huge, etc. He looked like the Mac-Genius version of a road-worn "biker."
When I got to the store, they had me fill out paperwork, checked the status of my AppleCare, and looked at the cord. Then they told me that they were 'out' of AC adapters from the service department but that they had some for sale on the floor. I was pretty confused at this point and asked if I could just have one from their floor stock and then when they got the replacement in if they could just put that one back on the floor. They refused. I got the manager to come over and he said that AppleCare service and the floor stock were two seperate departments and that they would make no exceptions to me.
I explained that I had called in advance and had told them that I needed the problem fixed that day as I was working on an important project and they told me they had the parts in stock to fix the problem. It was still no dice. They tried to 'clarify' that they did have the AC adapters but I would have to buy one to 'fix' the problem.
In the end, I walked out without buying the AC adapter and told them to mail me the replacement, which didn't come for 6 weeks. In the meantime, I went and purchased a new AC adapter from the local Mac Edge store in Nashua because I had to get my project done. I could have saved myself a lot of time and effort had I skipped the Apple Store trip entirely.
It's a shame too because I really liked going to the Apple Stores and seeing the newest Macs and Mac accessories. The only other places that are really local are CompUSA, which I am boycotting, and Mac Edge which only carries stock systems so you really can't 'test drive' what you want to purchase before hand.
I for one wish Apple would move away from using young people so much - take the recent Mac ad called genius. That girl in the ad does not look like a genius, she looks like Sarah Jessica Parker from Sex and the City and if Mac genius bars employ people like that then I'm frankly glad I don't use them.
Sarah Jessica Parker is 42 years olds.
Can't comment on US customer service but whatever the case, anything and anywhere compared to the service - or non-service - here in Spain would look like heaven.
I have quite a few US friends here and they just cannot assimilate it. I met one friend of mine for the first time in a complaints queue at the Telephone Company...he was complaining that he had been waiting 16 weeks for an engineer to come to fit the phone line (I was behind him in the queue going there to complain about a 2 month delay) and the rep said with a straight and puzzled face "what is the problem? 16 weeks? It's normal - come back in a month - next!".
This sort of thing is a daily occurrence. I could tell you stories that would make your hair stand on end.
What I meant to say though was; did you buy the new Base Station in the end? I have had a similar dropping out problem for the last few days culminating in no service at all whilst showing full bars and Airport Admin Utility not seeing the base station. All this happened after the last security updates and updating the AE firmware so might be a different problem to yours
I was thinking of upgrading to the new AE but perservered and managed to solve it.
First, yes..I ended up buying the new Extreme. After I powered down my modem and restarted and fiddled with some things, I got it working in conjunction with my Express acting as print server of sorts. The net is noticeably faster. I posted my speed results in Current Hardware. I had over 20,000kbs downstream. I was really surprised.
As for the problem specifically, it was often the same. Either it would show full bars, or it was grayed out but the indicator light was green. Then it would slow down and just "stop" for a few minutes. When it did that everything showed normal, but sometimes the utility couldn't see it. Sometimes resetting it and redoing thes security helped. It was next to a cordless phone and sitting on a wood cabinet speaker, so that might have been a problem. But it was random. It seems to be OK now that it's in my bedroom/office with the printer. My feeling is that it just couldn't handle the concrete ceilings and some walls and other networks. So far, not one dropout with the AE.
Secondly...I've heard that there many countries where US service looks like paradise in comparison. I've heard one of the worst is Germany. My ex father in law used to tell me about it (he traveled a lot and lived there years ago when he was in the military). Apparently they have NO idea about service. People just don't complain. It just isn't done, isn't appropriate, etc. It kind of amazes me. Actually..no...Brazil is the worst. It can take up to year to get a telephone and everything is basically corrupt...nothing gets done unless you literally bribe someone.
One thing I demand is courteous service. I don't mind waiting if someone says "sir, I'll be with you ASAP...we are just swamped here," but if I'm ignored (especially when an employee is on the phone or goofing off) I get pretty pissed. Or, sometimes management decisions just blow my mind. I was in my local Shop Rite store a few months ago and the lines were quite long. A witnessed an employee come up to the manager and ask if he should open another line. The manager actually said no. I was blown away...the lines were totally backed up, mostly because half the registers were closed. So I went over to the manager and sort o expressed my bewilderment about it. He didn't even have a good explanation. I also have an Office Depot right next door...they used to be even worse. There was literally NO ONE to check out customers one day...for like 10 minutes. Then when I said something I got excuses about cutbacks. I'm like...maybe you wouldn't cut back if you actually SOLD things at the register.
End rant.
Sarah Jessica Parker is 42 years olds.
While this is hard to dispute, she could have bought an F430 with the amount of money she has spent on plastic surgery -- maybe even two F430s.
And I must agree that the girl from the Apple ad does share a resemblance. A lot of it is in the jaw and pulled-back hair style.
First, yes..I ended up buying the new Extreme. After I powered down my modem and restarted and fiddled with some things, I got it working in conjunction with my Express acting as print server of sorts. The net is noticeably faster. I posted my speed results in Current Hardware. I had over 20,000kbs downstream. I was really surprised.
As for the problem specifically, it was often the same. Either it would show full bars, or it was grayed out but the indicator light was green. Then it would slow down and just "stop" for a few minutes. When it did that everything showed normal, but sometimes the utility couldn't see it. Sometimes resetting it and redoing thes security helped. It was next to a cordless phone and sitting on a wood cabinet speaker, so that might have been a problem. But it was random. It seems to be OK now that it's in my bedroom/office with the printer. My feeling is that it just couldn't handle the concrete ceilings and some walls and other networks. So far, not one dropout with the AE.
Secondly...I've heard that there many countries where US service looks like paradise in comparison. I've heard one of the worst is Germany. My ex father in law used to tell me about it (he traveled a lot and lived there years ago when he was in the military). Apparently they have NO idea about service. People just don't complain. It just isn't done, isn't appropriate, etc. It kind of amazes me. Actually..no...Brazil is the worst. It can take up to year to get a telephone and everything is basically corrupt...nothing gets done unless you literally bribe someone.
One thing I demand is courteous service. I don't mind waiting if someone says "sir, I'll be with you ASAP...we are just swamped here," but if I'm ignored (especially when an employee is on the phone or goofing off) I get pretty pissed. Or, sometimes management decisions just blow my mind. I was in my local Shop Rite store a few months ago and the lines were quite long. A witnessed an employee come up to the manager and ask if he should open another line. The manager actually said no. I was blown away...the lines were totally backed up, mostly because half the registers were closed. So I went over to the manager and sort o expressed my bewilderment about it. He didn't even have a good explanation. I also have an Office Depot right next door...they used to be even worse. There was literally NO ONE to check out customers one day...for like 10 minutes. Then when I said something I got excuses about cutbacks. I'm like...maybe you wouldn't cut back if you actually SOLD things at the register.
End rant.
The only place where retail service is still any good is high end boutique type operations where "pampering" is part of the fantasy they're selling and small local operations with a stable clientele. Even then, hit and miss, as your Apple experience shows.
But the big box places, chains, fast food joint, and such? Worse and worse and worse. I don't know if it has something to do with prevailing wages and who's willing to work for what, but they seem to be hiring people who once upon a time would have been virtually unemployable. I mean inarticulate, glaze eyed, seemingly a little crazy, maybe-on-thorazine folk.
I've had any number of surreal exchanges with people I would have moved away from on the bus who are staffing the local emporiums. The kind of thing where you ask a question and after the second word out of their mouth you realize that you're not going to get anything intelligible, much less helpful, or getting into some kind of prolonged back in forth about what one means when one says "ladder" or "where is" or "do you have". I've found myself talking loudly, in single syllable words, verrrrrry slowwwwwwly, with much gesticulation, as if I were attempting to communicate with a foreign person with a head wound.
Nothing against the very fine retail profession, mind you, which has many exemplary members, but what the hell does the interview for these jobs look like? "Are you dead?" "Are you killing anyone at the moment?" "Are you planning to kill me?" "What does a doggy say?"
*shrug* I don't really care much for the Apple store environment, so I don't bother with it.
It used to be that one complained about staff incompetence when encountered but now, as incompetence has proliferated everywhere to be the present de facto standard, it has become the expected norm. Now, I find myself going out of my way not to point out the incompetent to management, but to single out the truly magnificent for praise to store managers.
As such, I totally understand the shopping experiences described above - in general. However, I am having difficulty reconciling the Apple Store experiences of others with my own past association with these outlets.
In particular, I find the small Cambridgeside Galleria store in Cambridge, MA to be full of people who are attentive and fully competent to meet my demands for a satisfying Apple visitation. I find their demeanor pleasant, and willing to do whatever can be done to address some of the concerns I've brought to this location.
Also, the Woodlands and Galleria stores in Houston, TX where my parents live have been equally excellent. For what it's worth, I don't believe I've had a single disagreeable experience at any of the three locations, and many times have had exemplary experiences at each location.
I cannot say the same for the Apple online store or most other non-Apple retail locations and, frankly, despite it being Apple, am surprised that my experience has been so uniformly satisfactory and agreeable for so long, as I cannot say the same for any other retail presence with which I am familiar.
The only place where retail service is still any good is high end boutique type operations where "pampering" is part of the fantasy they're selling and small local operations with a stable clientele. Even then, hit and miss, as your Apple experience shows.
But the big box places, chains, fast food joint, and such? Worse and worse and worse. I don't know if it has something to do with prevailing wages and who's willing to work for what, but they seem to be hiring people who once upon a time would have been virtually unemployable. I mean inarticulate, glaze eyed, seemingly a little crazy, maybe-on-thorazine folk.
I've had any number of surreal exchanges with people I would have moved away from on the bus who are staffing the local emporiums. The kind of thing where you ask a question and after the second word out of their mouth you realize that you're not going to get anything intelligible, much less helpful, or getting into some kind of prolonged back in forth about what one means when one says "ladder" or "where is" or "do you have". I've found myself talking loudly, in single syllable words, verrrrrry slowwwwwwly, with much gesticulation, as if I were attempting to communicate with a foreign person with a head wound.
Nothing against the very fine retail profession, mind you, which has many exemplary members, but what the hell does the interview for these jobs look like? "Are you dead?" "Are you killing anyone at the moment?" "Are you planning to kill me?" "What does a doggy say?"
Stop...killing me.
Totally agree. I actually think it's that we're basically at full employment in this country when we're at 5 percent. We're at well below that now, and Retail is kind of the bottom of the non-immigrant barrel in many cases. So those kind's of non-dead, knowing-what-a-dog-says people are who you get...becuase the rest have better jobs.
But it's not all bad. I often get good service at Lowes, for example. My brother also relayed story about a truly excellent experience at KFC!
So these stories are out there, but the bad ones fra outnumber them. It's at the point now were when I DO get good service in a store or casual dining chain restaurant, I'm blown the hell away.
I'm not sure I understand what you complained about. They were busy, they got to you when they were done, you complained, the guy was defensive. These are human beings we're talking about - human beings with crappy pay and crappy jobs. I just assume that these people's lives suck and don't hold it against them.
Yes, humans will be humans, but there's a little thing called "professionalism". And that's not something for the well paid only.
As I think back to when the store opened though, the difference is quite striking. The employees are still knowledgable, but other than that it's all different. I guess I'm a few years older now so the young staff might bother me more...but I really think it's a different element now. I still remember this guy from two year ago at the holidays working the line outside the store. He had like red spikey hair, was huge, etc. He looked like the Mac-Genius version of a road-worn "biker."
I know exactly what you are talking about. When the Buffalo NY store first opened it was a great place to visit. The sales people and Mac geniuses were cool to talk to (most were actual Mac fans).
Now, I hate going to my Apple store. I have overheard the sales staff lying to customers about products (just like Best Buy or Circuit City employees do). I question if most of the sales staff even own Macs. Finally, the Mac Geniuses are nothing but big pricks to every customer.
Apple needs to redo the way these stores run (especially the Genius Bars). Eventually it will come back to bite them in the ass.
Dave
I know exactly what you are talking about. When the Buffalo NY store first opened it was a great place to visit. The sales people and Mac geniuses were cool to talk to (most were actual Mac fans).
Now, I hate going to my Apple store. I have overheard the sales staff lying to customers about products (just like Best Buy or Circuit City employees do). I question if most of the sales staff even own Macs. Finally, the Mac Geniuses are nothing but big pricks to every customer.
Apple needs to redo the way these stores run (especially the Genius Bars). Eventually it will come back to bite them in the ass.
Dave
Hmm...not just me. My feeling is that they're now paying less. I had an interview offer for KOP opened. Seems like people like me were taking second jobs, etc. Now it's 19 year old kids and "cockos" as it were.
I'm not sure I understand what you complained about. They were busy, they got to you when they were done, you complained, the guy was defensive. These are human beings we're talking about - human beings with crappy pay and crappy jobs. I just assume that these people's lives suck and don't hold it against them.
Really? Perhaps I didn't describe it well. Let me summarize
--It was not clear what their new checkout process was. There are no dedicated cashiers.
--I stood with another customer for 10 straight minutes (try it..it's a long time) without even being acknowledged. I don't mind waiting, but say "we'll be right with you...we're swamped" or "are you being helped?" Do something.
--When I finally asked to be checked out, the guy looked annoyed. He also looked like he had "snuffleupogus" sitting on his head.
--The guy should not have argued or even offered resistance to a customer complaint. OK, so he thought I was an a-hole. Good for him. You apologize to customers even when they're wrong. That's how I would have done it....it's the way it should be. Just my opinion.
--The employees in general seem to be much younger than they used to be, and are often not groomed professionally. I'm talking unshaven, multiple piercings, obnoxiously colored hair, etc. They also seem more arrogant lately. That's subjective, I realize.
--Their return/exchange procedures suck. I had posted another thread about this one day I was there.... a lady with an iPodHiFi was trying to return it, unopened, with a reciept. They flat out said no because there was a 14 day return (as opposed to 7) over the holidays. On the same day tried to exchange my Airport Express for a like model, and they told me I had to wait four hours for a genius. I didn't want a genius, I just wanted to exhange it. Then you have to make an appointment on the "day of" if you're not a procare member. And gee..of course it checked out OK.
Hopefully that clarifies it.
My local (Emeryville) Apple Store is doing the "roaming cashier" thing, and when it works it's pretty cool.
Trouble being, "when it works" is contingent on there being an employee free that you can flag down when you're ready to go. Otherwise...... how do you organize the people who are waiting? Do you have to make a little line that follows a particular sales person around the store like ducklings? Is it survival of the rudest, so you just walk up to the first person with an Apple tee-shirt on and demand to be checked-out? What if everybody is doing that? How can you tell "check-out" type folks from "one-on-one" training type folks, or ambulatory geniuses? Is there a difference? Is this explained anywhere, or are Apple people just supposed to figure it out, because it's "intuitive"? Maybe you're just supposed to shoot your hand in the air and bellow "I BUY NOW!"?
Like I say, so far it seems to work OK at Emeryville (most of the time) because a lot of the time Apple employees seem to come close to outnumbering the customers, but that doesn't seem like a very smart solution, long term, and it still means that on some occasions you end up standing very close to whichever Apple employee that seems the closest to wrapping up whatever they've got going on with somebody else, only to sort of sag with weariness when they say "I'll check on that for you" and march briskly off to the back. Then you have to start scanning the room again for anybody that looks semi-free, and even then they're probably on their way to do something else so they give you the "be with you in a second" over the shoulder kiss-off.
When that's what's going on standing in a nice, predictable, boring line seems like the height of efficiency.