"Microsoft is Dead"

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 83
    nvidia2008nvidia2008 Posts: 9,262member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by iPeon View Post


    Nonetheless, I don't see productivity apps being replaced by web apps anytime soon, if ever, so as to have Google be a threat to MS in this realm.



    I do believe MS is dying, but this not for Google or anyone else. MS is dying because MS can't innovate anything. Having a monopoly was their only defense and they are losing ground.



    Fair enough. Agreed



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post


    .....Apple is going to ride this wave like a surfer. They have nothing to lose by supporting most open standards...



    Totally. Word.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post


    ....Deliver more software. iWork needs a big brother. I'd like to see Apple deliver a biz level Office Suite by 10.6. I'm not cncerned about cross platform capability but rather the support of an extensible format like XML or ODL. I'd like to see an Apple photo editing/creating application as well. There are numerous uses for such a program. Application UI design, video editing etc....



    Word. Apple has a lot of software in deep skunkworks that at any time Steve can pull it out and say, "yeah, we've been working on this for 3/5/10 years w000000t"...



    I think they have been waiting for the core of Office2008 and CS3 Adobe/Macromedia full Universal Binary launch to be out of the way and very much in play before they start to seriously do competing products.



    I never touch the ghastly beast that is PowerPoint now that I discovered iWork. But Excel for Mac is critical on a day to day basis.
  • Reply 22 of 83
    ootlinkootlink Posts: 41member
    Since Vista's release, MS has sold 40 million copies of Vista (albeit probably most under volume licensing), compare that to OS X's 22 million userbase.



    I don't see MS being in trouble anytime soon.
  • Reply 23 of 83
    lfe2211lfe2211 Posts: 507member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by OoTLink View Post


    Since Vista's release, MS has sold 40 million copies of Vista (albeit probably most under volume licensing), compare that to OS X's 22 million userbase.



    I don't see MS being in trouble anytime soon.



    If you listened to the MS conference call 2 weeks ago, one worrisome point for MS was that higher, more expensive editions like business, ultimate & Enterprise were not sellng very well. The el cheapo stripped down Home Premium Basic edition (HPBE) , the one that is usually pre-installed in new PCs, is the only edition that is "selling". Chris Liddell, their CFO, who did part of the presentation, expressed concern when asked about this. The other editions sell retail at prices up to 5 times the cost of HPBE. Interestingly, the cost of the business & ultimate editions have plummeted in recent weeks as MS attempts to "hook" the peeps on Vista.



    The upgrade editions are a dismal flop to date because they don't work. Neither MS nor the manufacturers were prepared for the problems involved in upgrading from XP. Sony has been trying to get out a DVD with drivers and software to enable the upgrade but still has not done so.
  • Reply 24 of 83
    benroethigbenroethig Posts: 2,782member
    Microsoft is in a world of hurt. Unforunately, Apple doesn't seem to want to do anything about it.
  • Reply 25 of 83
    lfe2211lfe2211 Posts: 507member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BenRoethig View Post


    Microsoft is in a world of hurt. Unforunately, Apple doesn't seem to want to do anything about it.



    Could you please elaborate on both parts of your post? Thanks.
  • Reply 26 of 83
    You people obviously don't work for a large corporation and get your information from unreliable sources, be that Apple fanboy sites, friends, relatives, take your pick.



    Sorry you guys are wrong, but keep fighting the good fight.
  • Reply 27 of 83
    backtomacbacktomac Posts: 4,579member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by vinea View Post


    It could flounder and dissapear. Or it could flourish.



    Vinea



    Or it could be different. Like IBM. Perhaps MS will focus on services and consulting. The recent blustering of MS about sueing Linux for royalties is quite telling IMO. What are they afraid of?



    I think that if the stock continues to flounder, recent decent performance notwithstanding, there will be tremendous pressure from shareholders to break MS up. Then you have a different beast altogether.
  • Reply 28 of 83
    wesztweszt Posts: 2member
    Maybe for the zealots, Microsoft is dead, but companies that large often seem to make money in spite of themselves, like Disney. Microsoft has seen plenty of ups and downs, as has Apple, and correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't MS help bail out Apple a few years ago? Don't you think there might be some Microsoft fingers in the Apple pie just a bit somewhere? I could be wrong...



    As you all know, Apple is making money hand over fist these days. So is Microsoft, though perhaps not near the scale they have at other times. I'm sure given the chance Steve Jobs would thank ever last Mac zealot for all their financial support - you're helping him further his empire, something you might very well decide you hate later. This is business folks and ultimately, they don't know you and they probably only care about you as far as the bank so can we stop all this Apple Rules/MS Sucks crap for a little while?



    Next up: Google.
  • Reply 29 of 83
    vineavinea Posts: 5,585member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by backtomac View Post


    Or it could be different. Like IBM. Perhaps MS will focus on services and consulting. The recent blustering of MS about sueing Linux for royalties is quite telling IMO. What are they afraid of?



    IMHO MS is using the patent thing to try to fork linux into enterprise linux supported by corporations using GPL V2 and the rest of the linux on GPL v3.



    Frankly I hope that FSF oversteps and allows that to occur. As an open source dev I'm kinda getting tired of the free software weenies.



    Quote:

    I think that if the stock continues to flounder, recent decent performance notwithstanding, there will be tremendous pressure from shareholders to break MS up. Then you have a different beast altogether.



    Why would you break up MS? Didn't do much good for AT&T.



    Vinea
  • Reply 30 of 83
    backtomacbacktomac Posts: 4,579member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by vinea View Post


    Why would you break up MS? Didn't do much good for AT&T.



    Vinea



    I've seen talking heads on CNBC comment that MS broken up is worth more than it is now. I would agree that the ATT break up didn't 'unlock' any share holder value though.
  • Reply 31 of 83
    lfe2211lfe2211 Posts: 507member
    There are 2 issues being confounded in this thread. One is the current earnings of MS which are still OK. The second is the future growth potential of its stock.



    In the interest of balance, here's what some MS insider investors are saying about their own stock and current strategy.



    http://msftextrememakeover.blogspot....ah-not-so.html



    There's a good link to a Chris Liddell (MS CFO) webcast contained within.



    Here's another blog also with good links.



    http://gotads.blogspot.com/2007/01/w...microsoft.html





    (trailmaster where have you been? Is the Zune out of surgery yet?)
  • Reply 32 of 83
    vineavinea Posts: 5,585member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by lfe2211 View Post


    There are 2 issues being confounded in this thread. One is the current earnings of MS which are still OK. The second is the future growth potential of its stock.



    Yes and no.



    Future growth potential of the stock is dependent in the perceived strength of its current portfolio of products and services as well as viability future growth areas. If the current portfolio is expected to suffer serious downturn then growth in other areas is a wash.



    Xbox, games, mobile and media are expected growth areas for MS to offset softness in OS and productivity areas being challenged by Google and others. They compete with Sony, Apple and others in these growth areas.



    Vinea
  • Reply 33 of 83
    vineavinea Posts: 5,585member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by lfe2211 View Post


    Could you please elaborate on both parts of your post? Thanks.



    No don't. Lets not have yet another thread about an xMac.



    Vinea
  • Reply 34 of 83
    backtomacbacktomac Posts: 4,579member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by lfe2211 View Post


    There are 2 issues being confounded in this thread. One is the current earnings of MS which are still OK. The second is the future growth potential of its stock.



    In the interest of balance, here's what some MS insider investors are saying about their own stock and current strategy.



    http://msftextrememakeover.blogspot....ah-not-so.html



    There's a good link to a Chris Liddell (MS CFO) webcast contained within.



    Here's another blog also with good links.



    http://gotads.blogspot.com/2007/01/w...microsoft.html





    (trailmaster where have you been? Is the Zune out of surgery yet?)



    Nice links. Very nice. BTW, when I think that MS is 'dead' I think that it's influence in the market is in decline and will not be what it was 10 years ago. I do believe MS will be around 10 years from now, but a much different company.
  • Reply 35 of 83
    lfe2211lfe2211 Posts: 507member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by vinea View Post


    Yes and no.



    Future growth potential of the stock is dependent in the perceived strength of its current portfolio of products and services as well as viability future growth areas. If the current portfolio is expected to suffer serious downturn then growth in other areas is a wash.



    Xbox, games, mobile and media are expected growth areas for MS to offset softness in OS and productivity areas being challenged by Google and others. They compete with Sony, Apple and others in these growth areas.



    Vinea



    Triple Bollocks. Large growth in Xbox and games (unlikely) would be minuscule for MS in terms of earnings per share. Assuming they can maintain revenues at least constant in their biggest revenue generators, software OS & Office products, unless they show growth in their weakest area and the one with the largest $$$ growth potential, internet web revenue derived from search, their stock price will remain stalled as it has been since Sep., 2003 where its stock price was $30. It closed today at $30.98.



    ---------------------------------------



    Here are MS revenues by category from their latest quarterly report



    Client (PC Windows): Revenue, $5.3 billion, up 67 percent. (Includes $1.2 billion deferred from previous quarter. Operating profit, $4.2 billion, up 70 percent.



    Server and Tools: Revenue, $2.7 billion, up 15 percent. Operating profit, $979 million, up 32 percent.



    Online Services Business: Revenue $623 million, up 11 percent. Operating loss: $200 million, compared with a loss of $24 million in the same quarter last year.



    Microsoft Business Division: (Office, Microsoft Dynamics, etc.): Revenue, $4.8 billion, up 34 percent. Operating profit $3.4 billion, up 42 percent.



    Entertainment and Devices: Revenue, $929 million, down 21 percent. Operating loss $315 million, compared with a $402 million loss in the same quarter last year.
  • Reply 36 of 83
    lfe2211lfe2211 Posts: 507member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by backtomac View Post


    Nice links. Very nice. BTW, when I think that MS is 'dead' I think that it's influence in the market is in decline and will not be what it was 10 years ago. I do believe MS will be around 10 years from now, but a much different company.



    Agree completely.
  • Reply 37 of 83
    ipeonipeon Posts: 1,122member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by lfe2211 View Post


    Tech media "experts" love hyperbole and non-sequitors.



    Follow the money.



    Thank you. Now that makes perfect sense.
  • Reply 38 of 83
    slewisslewis Posts: 2,081member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by vinea View Post


    Lack of direction may or may not be solved by the board. Bill G isn't dead and as unlikely as it seems he could step back in a la Dell.



    The Windows Live folks are sharp and they have been able to do a few things ahead of Google. 3D Virtual Earth in a browser is one of the prettier examples.



    Bill Gates is the reason behind this mess to begin with, and he hasn't even stepped down yet (he's saving that for 2008 if you recall) meaning he is still very influential to his company. If he's Microsoft's only hope then Microsoft is toast.



    Quote:

    And if MS is Apple of the 90s then what will it be doing in 2017?



    It could flounder and dissapear. Or it could flourish.



    You are absolutely correct, they just need to slash 80% of the company and rework it from the ground up. Now lets see if they actually do just that.





    Quote:

    It's good right now as a huge beta test...and it works more or less okay for some folks.



    OK so let me get this straight, Microsoft just got through with a years worth of Betas and Release Candidates, and the released version is a Beta? I guess it really hasn't been launched yet.



    Quote:

    DR-DOS aka "I was stupid to piss off IBM so they went with Microsoft" OS ultimately died the same way as Word Perfect...aquisition by Novell...which is IMHO a deathknell for any tech company and its products.



    Had Digital Research not been indescribably stupid they, and not MS, would have had leadership position. But DR was indescribably stupid not once but TWICE. First by not licensing to IBM in the first place. Second for asking $240 for CP/M-86 when MS was willing to go $60 for MS-DOS.



    I admit I don't know about DR-DOS's internal affairs, but I do know that Microsoft is to fault for their death. First a link to the text document of the Court Transcript I was citing: Comes vs Microsoft in Iowa, December 1st 2006 Transcript. Printed as a PDF it's about 144 Pages. In that PDF, the Digital Research dilemma begins on page 43 and continues for pretty much the rest of the transcript, and Novell comes in on page 79.



    Moving on, if you read that transcript you get a very detailed description of exactly what Microsoft did to kill DR-DOS. They spread FUD, they manufactured bullshit incompatibilities, and they created exclusivity deals with various OEMs. In the December 4th Transcript (http://edge-op.org/iowa/www.iowacons...ember42006.txt page 31/288) comes back to the Merger. Novell announces their plans to merge with Digital Research and Bill Gates comes in and stalls it with a proposed merger with Novell, but Novell had to lose DRI. The discussions go on until Microsoft buys up another company in March 1992, making FTC approval even more difficult, and Novell drops discussions. The final death blow to DR-DOS was Windows 95, which glued the Windows GUI on top of MS-DOS essentially turning the 2 into one product. DR-DOS was officially toast. Even worse, in their onslaught to destroy DRI, they made it even more difficult for the struggling NeXT, and IBM.





    Quote:

    NeXTSTEP was wonderful. And wonderfully slow. I was a NeXTStep dev for a while and it had no real future except at Apple.



    OS/2...mmm...OS/2 1.0 was a joke...as much as Windows 1.0 was (which was about done when OS2 was announced). By the time OS/2 2.0 came about Windows 3.0 was out and had dominance. That IBM had elected to diverge from the Windows API meant that Windows had a large amount of software that had to be ported to work in OS/2. How dumb was that?



    Atari GEM, Amiga OS, MacOS. None ran on the intel platform so their rise and fall were coupled to hardware sales and the success or failures of their companies. None too stellar companies really.



    No matter how slow NeXTstep might have run, or how much OS/2 might have sucked compared to MS-DOS/Windows, the fact is Microsoft still prevented even one OEM from taking interest in either.



    I can't speak about the first 2 in that 3rd Paragraph, but Mac OS had too much legacy code in Assembly for the Motorola CPUs, and the only chips that could emulate it at decent speeds was the PPC at the time. But of course even that didn't matter, Apple was being run by a string of incompetent CEOs (not that Steve would have done any better if he wasn't removed from the company at all) and it had it's own problems to deal with.





    Quote:

    A computer isn't that useful without an OS. People IMHO usually buy SYSTEMS and not COMPUTERS. And why do they need to know anything about operating systems any more than they need to know anything about engines?



    1st Sentence: True

    2nd Sentence: Bull

    3rd Sentence: So they have a choice in a free market filled with competition, and partially because too many people are getting to be too lazy and not doing their own research, but mostly so they have a choice in a free market filled with competition.



    When someone walks into Best Buy or CompUSA, they are generally not thinking about Solaris (I know it doesn't exist in either of those places) vs Windows vs Mac OS X. Chances are they are trying to decide between a Dell, an HP, or a Mac, or another brand name. They buy the computer and use whatever OS comes on it after that, and thus aren't really choosing their OS (unless they believe the FUD and Myths about Macs) but really just their computer. They don't really have to choose their OS, Microsoft decided for them, and only a fraction of these people will end up wiping the HDD and installing Linux or some other OS.







    Quote:

    Bollocks. If there had been a superior value then folks would have gone to that instead. The combination of cheaper clones and cheap OS was unequalled. All other rivals had their own opportunity that were sqandered for one reason or another.



    You're right, MS-DOS was cheap (remember those exclusivity deals mentioned above?) and it helped that OEMs could easily hide the real price tag of the OS it has on their hardware.





    Quote:

    Bollocks again. .NET is a vast improvement on win32/MFC programming. Visual Studio 200x is excellent and I've used everything from Rational, JBuilder, Kylix, emacs, Eclipse, Netbeans, IBM Workbench and a host of others I've forgotten (never really used earlier versions of Visual Studio).



    MS has many faults but as far as dev tools go they do a good job and always has.



    Bullshit. I never claimed one thing or another about .NET other than the fact that people are going to develop where the majority of the market is no matter what, and chances are they are going to do it with the default set of tools available to them, nor does it matter to me how much of an improvement it is over the previous tools available on a platform I despise from a company I despise even more.



    EDIT: I made a stinker here. I went and reread the first sentence in my post of the paragraph you were replying to. I apparently said "...that doesn't make it any better" when referring to .NET. In truth by being the default set of tools that doesn't make it any better, nor does it make it any better than Xcode. Just thought I'd clear that up.





    Quote:

    MS has always felt it had to compete hard...hence the predatory behavior. And their leverage is by no means tiny...just unfocused at the moment.



    But they have a lot of great technology and smart folks.



    Compete hard, not unfair, and not to the point where you end up destroying any possible competition in a supposedly free market locking other OS vendors out because it would be too expensive to use a competing OS because each and every Intel chip an OEM under their strict licensing shipped out the door meant another royalty to Microsoft.





    Quote:

    Zune is the XBox. Kinda meh this generation. The 360 is doing better than the XBox and Sony is stunbling. The Wii has no legs. Fun for 2007 but Nintendo effectively conceeded the hard-core gamer market to Sony and MS.



    Meh this generation but don't worry, they'll firmware update the hell out of it until you can claim it's almost as good as an iPod. Then they'll launch Zune 2.0, oh guess what, maybe they won't firmware update the hell out of it after all.



    And the Wii has no legs to stand on? Last I checked it's selling at a faster rate than the 360 is (the 360 of course still has more units sold but only because of a year head start, the Wii is still selling at a faster rate) and the Wii is selling at a fast enough rate to effectively overtake the 360 by this Fall, or come damn close to it, and either way, it'll end up outselling the 360 because it's the only console with sales worth mentioning in the 3 main regions of the gaming world: Europe, Japan, and NA, not just 1 or 2 of those like the 360: Europe and NA, nor does Nintendo have to resort to channel stuffing just to meet end of the year goals, and still only end up reporting the number shipped.



    What's even funnier is even though the Wii is selling at a faster rate, so called "hardcore gamers" claim Nintendo has alienated them, when the hardcore gamer population is actually much much smaller than that of the Casual Gaming market. Then they turn around and claim that since Nintendo is such an odd ball they don't count anyways, even though they are still competing for the same consumer dollars, still competing for retail shelf space, and still competing for Game Publishers and Game Developers for their platform. You have no legs to stand on to base your claim that Nintendo has no legs to stand on, especially with the widespread popularity of the Nintendo DS and the Nintendo DS Lite.



    Quote:

    Windows Mobile/Windows CE is a major factor in the US market but small worldwide. It has its own plusses and minuses. But lots of folks in the US use Windows Mobile. Given that Windows Mobile doubled sales so I don't think its doing badly...and it took most of its share increase from Palm.



    It's a factor in a fraction of the market where it's only growth has been eating what's left of Palm OS' market share (no thanks to Palm themselves) alive. Symbian is still the most widely used, and Linux is the second most widely used, leaving the rest of the market to Microsoft, Palm, and RIM.



    Quote:

    I haven't played with OpenOffice since I do everything in Keynote and MS Word.



    I've been typing this post on and off over the course of the past 24 hours, a few sentences here, a paragraph here, and so on, and normally I would be pissed and just let you agonize with OOo when you maybe eventually play around with it... but for the sake of your sanity and mine, just don't bother OpenOffice at all... in fact stay as far away from it as possible. If you're interested, try Nisus Writer Pro Public Beta 1, I've been enjoying it since the beta first came out.



    Quote:

    Linux has its own pros and cons in both the embedded and server space. MS' server share came at the expense of unix. That linux is recapturing some of that is nice but really, MS should never have HAD a large presence in the server space to begin with.



    Sun, HP, SGI are to blame there.



    They should have never had the Desktop market under their hand either for so many years, and IBM is the root of the problem, not having ever thought about licensing DOS exclusively until it was too late. But it is nice that Linux is taking the server market from Microsoft.



    Quote:

    Corporations go in cycles. Apple is on the upswing these last several years. Intel the last couple. Dell on the decline, HP on the rise (who'da thunk that?). Microsoft will stagger about a few years but it has a long way to go before it is irrelevant or toothless. They do have some innovative tech...just doesn't get publicized as much as MS failures.



    Yes they do tend to go in cycles. Apple will drop like a rock the minute Steve retires unless Steve is hammering out the concept for Life at Apple after Steve. Microsoft needs to slash and/or divide it's company back to it's core focus and maybe keep the Xbox division. Too many people working on too many different things with too many different Pay Checks being written for too many people and too many of them with engineering jobs equals a mess. Microsoft is irrelevant, has very few new products to offer that are worth using, they don't make a big enough deal about gems like Windows Live Writer (the team that created this needs to have their salaries doubled, it was the one gem I missed when I switched to the Mac, although I heard about MarsEdit, I just lost interest in writing blogs and when I do get around to it again I hope to be doing it in Movable Type with TextMate) and they don't concentrate enough on the important aspects of an OS. Their recent Security improvements in Vista amount to nothing more than a Band-aid trying to stop a Tsunami from completely sinking an Island.



    Quote:

    Vinea



    Sebastian
  • Reply 39 of 83
    slewisslewis Posts: 2,081member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Weszt View Post


    Maybe for the zealots, Microsoft is dead, but companies that large often seem to make money in spite of themselves, like Disney. Microsoft has seen plenty of ups and downs, as has Apple, and correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't MS help bail out Apple a few years ago? Don't you think there might be some Microsoft fingers in the Apple pie just a bit somewhere? I could be wrong...



    As you all know, Apple is making money hand over fist these days. So is Microsoft, though perhaps not near the scale they have at other times. I'm sure given the chance Steve Jobs would thank ever last Mac zealot for all their financial support - you're helping him further his empire, something you might very well decide you hate later. This is business folks and ultimately, they don't know you and they probably only care about you as far as the bank so can we stop all this Apple Rules/MS Sucks crap for a little while?



    Next up: Google.



    Apparently we need to clear something up here because there are at least 2 different grounds that this argument is standing on. The first, and what the original post was about, was Microsoft's actual influence, they make a lot of noise but they are going nowhere fast. The second ground is Microsoft's actual profitability, of course they are profitable, that doesn't mean they are influential because all the money in the world won't sell the Zune any faster.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by vinea View Post


    IMHO MS is using the patent thing to try to fork linux into enterprise linux supported by corporations using GPL V2 and the rest of the linux on GPL v3.



    Frankly I hope that FSF oversteps and allows that to occur. As an open source dev I'm kinda getting tired of the free software weenies.



    Microsoft isn't trying to do anything of the sort, they have a nice little FUD campaign that's making them a lot of money. They have a partnership with Novell giving them "Linux Support" and with a minimal investment, they are recruiting businesses like WalMart to join their alliance. If Microsoft really cared about protecting their Intellectual Property they would have done so a long time ago, but a lawsuit against Linux just wouldn't amount to much. Look at SCO.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by backtomac View Post


    Nice links. Very nice. BTW, when I think that MS is 'dead' I think that it's influence in the market is in decline and will not be what it was 10 years ago. I do believe MS will be around 10 years from now, but a much different company.



    Exactly.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by OoTLink View Post


    Since Vista's release, MS has sold 40 million copies of Vista (albeit probably most under volume licensing), compare that to OS X's 22 million userbase.



    I don't see MS being in trouble anytime soon.



    How many of those Sold Licenses were Giveaways and coupon deals that people haven't used?



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by lfe2211 View Post


    Triple Bollocks. Large growth in Xbox and games (unlikely) would be minuscule for MS in terms of earnings per share. Assuming they can maintain revenues at least constant in their biggest revenue generators, software OS & Office products, unless they show growth in their weakest area and the one with the largest $$$ growth potential, internet web revenue derived from search, their stock price will remain stalled as it has been since Sep., 2003 where its stock price was $30. It closed today at $30.98.



    ---------------------------------------



    Here are MS revenues by category from their latest quarterly report



    Client (PC Windows): Revenue, $5.3 billion, up 67 percent. (Includes $1.2 billion deferred from previous quarter. Operating profit, $4.2 billion, up 70 percent.



    Server and Tools: Revenue, $2.7 billion, up 15 percent. Operating profit, $979 million, up 32 percent.



    Online Services Business: Revenue $623 million, up 11 percent. Operating loss: $200 million, compared with a loss of $24 million in the same quarter last year.



    Microsoft Business Division: (Office, Microsoft Dynamics, etc.): Revenue, $4.8 billion, up 34 percent. Operating profit $3.4 billion, up 42 percent.



    Entertainment and Devices: Revenue, $929 million, down 21 percent. Operating loss $315 million, compared with a $402 million loss in the same quarter last year.



    Further proving my previous point that the Xbox 360 isn't doing any better and the Zune is a huge flop.



    Sebastian
  • Reply 40 of 83
    iposteriposter Posts: 1,560member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by vinea View Post


    The Wii has no legs. Fun for 2007 but Nintendo effectively conceded the hard-core gamer market to Sony and MS.



    Too bad 'hard-core' gamers are an insignificant fraction of the market:



    Wii Tracker 12 of 15 Sold Out



    360 Tracker 2 of 13 Sold Out



    PS3 Tracker 1 of 13 Sold Out
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