The purpose of Steve Jobs premature disclosures at MWSF was to change headlines from the SEC criminal investigation into the backdating of Apple stock options (at the request of Steve Jobs to favor his pet Vice Presidents) to a more favorable, speculative buzz about the iPhone and the "secret features" of Leopard.
Leopard's delay shows that Apple is unable to deliver on all the hype generated by Steve Jobs to take attention away from the ongoing SEC criminal investigation.
And yes, the delay of Leopard will have a negative impact on the sale of new Macs.
And when dealing with someone who'll just call people "idiots" because he "knows" all that's coming up in Leopard and anyone who doesn't appreciate that its the greatest thing since sliced bread, you automatically know you're dealing with a jackass.
Did it ever occur to you that people may be ignorant of the facts (which you apparently have all that wonderful inside information of), rather then just being clueless dimwits with an IQ of 6?
That is just plain stupid talk (wait, maybe I'm talking to the idiot). Why in the hell would Apple want to make their new OS look so boring and superficially improved? So everyone, like myself, go "Meh! Look what's coming up. Talk about a yawner. Wake me for OS 11". Just what you want to do, make most of your customers think there's no reason for them to even look forward to your new grand OS, with just the hauty 'mac-intelectuals' who spend time trying to figure out all that's great underneath.
I'm sure glad YOU'RE not running Apple. With that thinking, Apple should have just shown off the iPhone's ipodscapabilities, mentioned Leopard was underneath, and leave it to everyone to try to determine what else it could do.
Well, they'll understand it if they think its a benefit. I've never found it as some major computing-changing ability. But that's just me.
But maybe you missed the Tiger pimping apple did. They actually did pimp Expose, not your little "scaling of the UI" stuff. I guess that's why Tiger's such a flop? Too many lemmings understood the feature, and didn't leave it to those who want to dig?
Great. So now you're saying that Leopard is basically one giant $150 bug fix? Wonderful, everyone just loves paying a company just to fix the problems that shouldn't have been there in the first place!
But, most of all, why don't you grace us with your knowledge and wisdom and tell us idiots what these ramifications are that will explode upon us with Leopard (and you better be talking leopard, because why in the hell would anyone buy leopard if all it does is provide some underpinnings that apple might use in some future OS version, you might as well wait for that future version). Oh, and no suppositions, assumptions, or guesses, since saying "Well, Core Animation would allow them to do x, y, and z" is great, but that doesn't mean Leopard will have x, y, or z.)
the only way i can express myself upon what you have written is as follows:-
Sounds to me like Apple is trying to chew more that it can handle right now. Sounds like a lot of projects are delayed.
Maybe is because of the capabilities that they are adding to Leopard and because a lot of the new hardware will be running some of the new capabilities of leopard.
But it may also be that they are streching themselves a bit too thin, they only have so many good programmers and too many projects at the same time.
Time will tell, but so far 2007 looks like a drag year after all the hoopla of "The last 30 years", "and you seen nothing yet".
It is better to deliver a few good products every so often than be late on all of them.
I have no clue what the new features are and no clue what the new products are, but looks like Apple is very excited and developing multiple projects at the same time.
If I had to guess the new touch human interface will be in a lot of the new devices and yes I think a tablet like device is coming.
Sorry, but a new UI is not necessarily a "feature". Plus, items 1 and 2 lay the groundwork for some severe compatibility problems with various third-party software that will require them to spend time actually using the new super-secret features (hey, that was one of the reasons I always thought June was pushing it...) Also, a new UI only leads to more inconsistencies and bugs in an OS that's already got enough that apple hasn't fixed.
Number 3 is just a redefine of number 1, so I don't think it counts as a bullet. Plus, I don't think people will look at a 3D desktop and say "Thank god apple delayed leopard for this!".
Yes your right (New Interface - Theme Engine - 3D Desktop) aren't new features per say, but Leopard is going to need a "WOW" factor. No?
Looks get people in the door, not engineering!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Louzer
Virtualization may be nice for some, but is Jobs really going to come out and basically admit that people NEED windows in life, OS X is just secondary, so we're giving you this ability built-in. Plus, there's a huge problem with the idea. Who's paying $2000 for a new laptop, then forking over another $200 for a copy of Windows? Might as well get a $1500 Wintel laptop.
Here I disagree. On Apple's own website, under "Get A Mac,"
So let me just shoot one out for you: no drivers needed. Let me bold that for you. No drivers needed. Your saying Apple has already solved that problem with building in drivers, right? Hmmm...thats relaying on third-party developers. What about video cards that aren't supported by Mac OS X? Or Printers thats not supported by OS X? Or, for that, any hardware thats not supported. Instead of having the company who makes the hardware make the driver, why don't we have something like Core Animation that actually CODES the drivers for the hardware? That is something that will be a HUGE thing to over come.
This would not be a big selling point for many people. Also, why would Apple go to so much effort when they can just rely on 3rd parties? I'm not even sure if such a thing is possible. There aren't enough standards with hardware IO to make this practical IMHO.
In short, I don't see them putting in effort on an idea like this any time soon, or ever.
This would not be a big selling point for many people. Also, why would Apple go to so much effort when they can just rely on 3rd parties? I'm not even sure if such a thing is possible. There aren't enough standards with hardware IO to make this practical IMHO.
In short, I don't see them putting in effort on an idea like this any time soon, or ever.
Whether or not its possible, i don't know (yet). However, releying on third parties does not solve the problem of drivers. My printer's drivers is not built-in. So I had to install a whole disk, install a bunch of software I don't want and or need (really, does any Mac user need photo software?)....and why? I thought everything "just works with a Mac", and that, and I quote: "You should simply be able to connect that camera, printer, gamepad, camcorder, or phone to your computer and use it. That’s certainly the experience you’ll enjoy on a Mac. Millions do now. And you can join them." Not even on a Mac you can't do that. Because once you connect your printer, you have to go searching for your drivers on your computer, have to know the name of your printer (and on some, like my parents, it can be a pain to find....), then go searchin' for them.
Which is why I am sure Steve Jobs is thinking of a way to get rid of drivers. Volia, I found it. Now Jobs, or maybe someday myself, -- go make it happen.
But for some reason, I have a feeling Apple will beat me to it. Dang. I could have made millions off of that, oh well (that was a joke, btw).
For more on how you shouldn't go hunting for drivers, Apple's site has it right here: http://www.apple.com/getamac/drivers.html. Maybe Mac users don't read the "Get a Mac" stuff....
The analysts are BEYOND stupid with this one! This is further proof that the analysts don't have a Mac - they only see "new products" and, what's even worse, they compare Apple to Microsoft...
The bottom line?
NO ONE CARES IF LEOPARD IS OUT OR NOT!!!!
Out of the 150 private clients I have, not even 1 is upgrading to Leopard because they are not doing anything that Tiger doesn't already handle!
That is the beauty of Mac users - we are realistic and only care about upgrades when the upgrades are actually necessary. The PC world (stock brokers) are paranoid because they are used to upgrading every week to deal with new viruses...
BUT THE BEST PART IS THE ANALYST PARANOIA! I love that they "suspect Apple is lying" - this is so pathetic. I know people who work for Apple and guess what? It's not a HUGE company with a billion programmers - they needed to allocate more resources to the iPhone because if the iPhone came out with bugs, the analysts would once again tear up the company they hate.
I was truly shocked to hear Herb Greenberg on Fast Money say that he thought they were advertising iPhone in order to drive up the stock. SAD....so sad...the stock went up because people who don't know about investing bought the stock based on the advertisements, Herb! Maybe Herb should stop smoking some of that Herb and then he won't be so paranoid....
If this goes anywhere below 90, I'm buying once again! At this rate, the paranoia of the analysts have given me almost 40K in profit. Thank you, analysts! I thought I would hold long and just make about 15K.....
The analysts are BEYOND stupid with this one! This is further proof that the analysts don't have a Mac - they only see "new products" and, what's even worse, they compare Apple to Microsoft...
That is the beauty of Mac users - we are realistic and only care about upgrades when the upgrades are actually necessary. The PC world (stock brokers) are paranoid because they are used to upgrading every week to deal with new viruses...
It's the analysts who are saying Leopard's delay is not a big deal and that the iPhone is the most important item for increasing Apple's profit and Mac sales in the long run. Hell, even the stocks barley took a hit the next* day.
It was the Mac-fanatics that are the ones crying foul and claiming that Apple has put the cart before the horse, have given up on making proper computers and other such nonsense.
* Apple announced the delay just after the market closed. Coincidence? I think not.
I'm sure hoping its the implementation of zfs for the filesystem. The HFS+ of Apple's is a bit out-dated. zfs would rock and leap-frog Apple ahead of everyone else.
I'm sure hoping its the implementation of zfs for the filesystem. The HFS+ of Apple's is a bit out-dated. zfs would rock and leap-frog Apple ahead of everyone else.
Even though it's 6 weeks later - can't resist to put my 2-cents in here: Yes - I do believe that Leopard has been delayed to fully integrate ZFS. With it Apple has something really superior in comparision with the new Windows Homeserver software (and H/W from HP) that will be released later in '07. The number of files, its speed and data protection are some of the advantages but the storage pooling feature of ZFS is a significant departure from how disks are handled. Out of disk space? Just add a new drive and your Macintosh HD is suddenly that much bigger! So while you will need a dedicated homeserver from M/S to store all your pictures and movies, a standard Mac (and all of the models) can do it for you.
One more thing: Why did the delay of Leopard not affect the stock price? Apple just came out of its best first quarter (after the X-mas season) - stock goes up! The iPhone is coming in June - revenue up, stock goes up. Leopard is released in October - revenue up, stock goes up. X-mas season with all new h/w.... Perfect revenue management. Brilliant!
Even though it's 6 weeks later - can't resist to put my 2-cents in here: Yes - I do believe that Leopard has been delayed to fully integrate ZFS.
What file system will OS X use for booting the system? Since ZFS currently doesn't have that capability will Apple still use HFS+? Wouldn't having a separate file systems on a consumer machine be somewhat pointless?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robre
One more thing: Why did the delay of Leopard not affect the stock price?
I think most people realized that a short delay in Leopard means very little in Apple's overall growth.
What file system will OS X use for booting the system? Since ZFS currently doesn't have that capability will Apple still use HFS+? Wouldn't having a separate file systems on a consumer machine be somewhat pointless?
Not necessarily . . . various pros and cons to it and the whole thing could be seamless to the user.
You could have a core boot file system containing the absolute core of the OS which started up the system and the ZFS file volume. From there, the ZFS file loaded loads the rest of the OS ( UI etc ).
The boot file system could be kept closely guarded and untouchable by the general OS user and in effect, the only thing the user sees is the ZFS volume and all the normal OSX stuff within it.
Hiding things from the average user is pretty common place anyhow ... look at the rootkit issues of Sony debacle. So hiding a boot volume that kick starts the ZFS is no different.
Macs already have a boot partition anyway, so there won't be any difference if one is needed for ZFS. But ZFS is pretty much up to par with Solaris in the Leopard seeds right now. Really the only thing left is for them to be able to boot off of it. ZFS is a pretty cool file system that gives Sun and Apple a lot of space to grow into. And I'm not just talking about physical space, I'm talking features. ZFS right now offers file system level file compression. I imagine it wouldn't be too difficult to expand that to file encryption, something people have wanted for a while and which would make FileVault a much better feature.
i don't know whether you're right or not. but that's the first logical explanation i've seen of what otherwise seemed inexplicable: apple announcing a new product six months in advance.
If you want to look at it logically, think about the iPhone's target market: consumers who already have a mobile phone and are under contract. Now think about contracts expiring.
Assuming those contracts were signed equally throughout the year then 25% of the targeted customers on a 2 year agreement (and 50% of those on a 1 year contract) will be past the contract expiration and free to buy the iPhone when it is released. The numbers double when it comes to the Christmas buying season. If Steve had waited until June to announce the iPhone he would be faced with a very small percentage of potential customers who were free of their contracts.
Think about it. Steve could have briefly mentioned the iPhone and the FCC filing at MWSF and gone to other things. Instead he spent most of his time giving a sales presentation to target customers so they would not renew their expiring contracts. They even put a link to the presentation on the main page of their website.
Was it smart? Wait for pictures of the lines outside the Apple Store on the day the iPhone is released to find out.
Comments
on a slightly related news...
Apple Inc. has bought nine acres in Cupertino from Kevin Wu's Pacific Resources Development company, according to county records.
Wu had planned to build 125 townhouses between Pruneridge Avenue and Interstate 280, but abruptly withdrew his application in February and did not say to whom he sold the land.
Santa Clara County Assessor's Office online records list the value of the two properties -- at 10300 and 10400 North Tantau Avenue -- at about $16 million. Wu would have demolished two office buildings on the site, which is in a planned industrial park zone.
Apple declined to comment on its plans for the property or when it would make an announcement.
The company also owns a 50-acre parcel on the other side of North Tantau Avenue where it is expected to build a campus for up to 3,500 of its employees who currently work in buildings spread around the city.
Any relation to Shaw Wu?
The purpose of Steve Jobs premature disclosures at MWSF was to change headlines from the SEC criminal investigation into the backdating of Apple stock options (at the request of Steve Jobs to favor his pet Vice Presidents) to a more favorable, speculative buzz about the iPhone and the "secret features" of Leopard.
Leopard's delay shows that Apple is unable to deliver on all the hype generated by Steve Jobs to take attention away from the ongoing SEC criminal investigation.
And yes, the delay of Leopard will have a negative impact on the sale of new Macs.
Heh. You're funny.
And when dealing with someone who'll just call people "idiots" because he "knows" all that's coming up in Leopard and anyone who doesn't appreciate that its the greatest thing since sliced bread, you automatically know you're dealing with a jackass.
Did it ever occur to you that people may be ignorant of the facts (which you apparently have all that wonderful inside information of), rather then just being clueless dimwits with an IQ of 6?
That is just plain stupid talk (wait, maybe I'm talking to the idiot). Why in the hell would Apple want to make their new OS look so boring and superficially improved? So everyone, like myself, go "Meh! Look what's coming up. Talk about a yawner. Wake me for OS 11". Just what you want to do, make most of your customers think there's no reason for them to even look forward to your new grand OS, with just the hauty 'mac-intelectuals' who spend time trying to figure out all that's great underneath.
I'm sure glad YOU'RE not running Apple. With that thinking, Apple should have just shown off the iPhone's ipodscapabilities, mentioned Leopard was underneath, and leave it to everyone to try to determine what else it could do.
Well, they'll understand it if they think its a benefit. I've never found it as some major computing-changing ability. But that's just me.
But maybe you missed the Tiger pimping apple did. They actually did pimp Expose, not your little "scaling of the UI" stuff. I guess that's why Tiger's such a flop? Too many lemmings understood the feature, and didn't leave it to those who want to dig?
Great. So now you're saying that Leopard is basically one giant $150 bug fix? Wonderful, everyone just loves paying a company just to fix the problems that shouldn't have been there in the first place!
But, most of all, why don't you grace us with your knowledge and wisdom and tell us idiots what these ramifications are that will explode upon us with Leopard (and you better be talking leopard, because why in the hell would anyone buy leopard if all it does is provide some underpinnings that apple might use in some future OS version, you might as well wait for that future version). Oh, and no suppositions, assumptions, or guesses, since saying "Well, Core Animation would allow them to do x, y, and z" is great, but that doesn't mean Leopard will have x, y, or z.)
the only way i can express myself upon what you have written is as follows:-
your name is apt, you are an ass
A sexy girl holds her cards close to an ample chest, no?
Ummm, maybe hard to concentrate on the card game with that little lady in front of me.
Maybe is because of the capabilities that they are adding to Leopard and because a lot of the new hardware will be running some of the new capabilities of leopard.
But it may also be that they are streching themselves a bit too thin, they only have so many good programmers and too many projects at the same time.
Time will tell, but so far 2007 looks like a drag year after all the hoopla of "The last 30 years", "and you seen nothing yet".
It is better to deliver a few good products every so often than be late on all of them.
I have no clue what the new features are and no clue what the new products are, but looks like Apple is very excited and developing multiple projects at the same time.
If I had to guess the new touch human interface will be in a lot of the new devices and yes I think a tablet like device is coming.
Sorry, but a new UI is not necessarily a "feature". Plus, items 1 and 2 lay the groundwork for some severe compatibility problems with various third-party software that will require them to spend time actually using the new super-secret features (hey, that was one of the reasons I always thought June was pushing it...) Also, a new UI only leads to more inconsistencies and bugs in an OS that's already got enough that apple hasn't fixed.
Number 3 is just a redefine of number 1, so I don't think it counts as a bullet. Plus, I don't think people will look at a 3D desktop and say "Thank god apple delayed leopard for this!".
Yes your right (New Interface - Theme Engine - 3D Desktop) aren't new features per say, but Leopard is going to need a "WOW" factor. No?
Looks get people in the door, not engineering!
Virtualization may be nice for some, but is Jobs really going to come out and basically admit that people NEED windows in life, OS X is just secondary, so we're giving you this ability built-in. Plus, there's a huge problem with the idea. Who's paying $2000 for a new laptop, then forking over another $200 for a copy of Windows? Might as well get a $1500 Wintel laptop.
Here I disagree. On Apple's own website, under "Get A Mac,"
#3. Everything-ready.
The Mac is the only computer in the world that can run all the major operating systems, including Mac OS X, Windows XP, and Vista.
With software like Parallels Desktop or VMware you can even run them side by side.
If Apple doen't care about Windows why make this #3.
So let me just shoot one out for you: no drivers needed. Let me bold that for you. No drivers needed. Your saying Apple has already solved that problem with building in drivers, right? Hmmm...thats relaying on third-party developers. What about video cards that aren't supported by Mac OS X? Or Printers thats not supported by OS X? Or, for that, any hardware thats not supported. Instead of having the company who makes the hardware make the driver, why don't we have something like Core Animation that actually CODES the drivers for the hardware? That is something that will be a HUGE thing to over come.
This would not be a big selling point for many people. Also, why would Apple go to so much effort when they can just rely on 3rd parties? I'm not even sure if such a thing is possible. There aren't enough standards with hardware IO to make this practical IMHO.
In short, I don't see them putting in effort on an idea like this any time soon, or ever.
It's time for Mac users to admit that the whole delay was so Apple could perfect BootCamp after all!
Yes, Lepord is really an Auqafied version of Windows.
This would not be a big selling point for many people. Also, why would Apple go to so much effort when they can just rely on 3rd parties? I'm not even sure if such a thing is possible. There aren't enough standards with hardware IO to make this practical IMHO.
In short, I don't see them putting in effort on an idea like this any time soon, or ever.
Whether or not its possible, i don't know (yet). However, releying on third parties does not solve the problem of drivers. My printer's drivers is not built-in. So I had to install a whole disk, install a bunch of software I don't want and or need (really, does any Mac user need photo software?)....and why? I thought everything "just works with a Mac", and that, and I quote: "You should simply be able to connect that camera, printer, gamepad, camcorder, or phone to your computer and use it. That’s certainly the experience you’ll enjoy on a Mac. Millions do now. And you can join them." Not even on a Mac you can't do that. Because once you connect your printer, you have to go searching for your drivers on your computer, have to know the name of your printer (and on some, like my parents, it can be a pain to find....), then go searchin' for them.
Which is why I am sure Steve Jobs is thinking of a way to get rid of drivers. Volia, I found it. Now Jobs, or maybe someday myself, -- go make it happen.
But for some reason, I have a feeling Apple will beat me to it. Dang. I could have made millions off of that, oh well (that was a joke, btw).
For more on how you shouldn't go hunting for drivers, Apple's site has it right here: http://www.apple.com/getamac/drivers.html. Maybe Mac users don't read the "Get a Mac" stuff....
The bottom line?
NO ONE CARES IF LEOPARD IS OUT OR NOT!!!!
Out of the 150 private clients I have, not even 1 is upgrading to Leopard because they are not doing anything that Tiger doesn't already handle!
That is the beauty of Mac users - we are realistic and only care about upgrades when the upgrades are actually necessary. The PC world (stock brokers) are paranoid because they are used to upgrading every week to deal with new viruses...
BUT THE BEST PART IS THE ANALYST PARANOIA! I love that they "suspect Apple is lying" - this is so pathetic. I know people who work for Apple and guess what? It's not a HUGE company with a billion programmers - they needed to allocate more resources to the iPhone because if the iPhone came out with bugs, the analysts would once again tear up the company they hate.
I was truly shocked to hear Herb Greenberg on Fast Money say that he thought they were advertising iPhone in order to drive up the stock. SAD....so sad...the stock went up because people who don't know about investing bought the stock based on the advertisements, Herb! Maybe Herb should stop smoking some of that Herb and then he won't be so paranoid....
If this goes anywhere below 90, I'm buying once again! At this rate, the paranoia of the analysts have given me almost 40K in profit. Thank you, analysts! I thought I would hold long and just make about 15K.....
The analysts are BEYOND stupid with this one! This is further proof that the analysts don't have a Mac - they only see "new products" and, what's even worse, they compare Apple to Microsoft...
That is the beauty of Mac users - we are realistic and only care about upgrades when the upgrades are actually necessary. The PC world (stock brokers) are paranoid because they are used to upgrading every week to deal with new viruses...
Then you haven't seen this thread: Apple delays Leopard release until October (12-APR-2007)
It's the analysts who are saying Leopard's delay is not a big deal and that the iPhone is the most important item for increasing Apple's profit and Mac sales in the long run. Hell, even the stocks barley took a hit the next* day.
It was the Mac-fanatics that are the ones crying foul and claiming that Apple has put the cart before the horse, have given up on making proper computers and other such nonsense.
* Apple announced the delay just after the market closed. Coincidence? I think not.
I'm sure hoping its the implementation of zfs for the filesystem. The HFS+ of Apple's is a bit out-dated. zfs would rock and leap-frog Apple ahead of everyone else.
Even though it's 6 weeks later - can't resist to put my 2-cents in here: Yes - I do believe that Leopard has been delayed to fully integrate ZFS. With it Apple has something really superior in comparision with the new Windows Homeserver software (and H/W from HP) that will be released later in '07. The number of files, its speed and data protection are some of the advantages but the storage pooling feature of ZFS is a significant departure from how disks are handled. Out of disk space? Just add a new drive and your Macintosh HD is suddenly that much bigger! So while you will need a dedicated homeserver from M/S to store all your pictures and movies, a standard Mac (and all of the models) can do it for you.
One more thing: Why did the delay of Leopard not affect the stock price? Apple just came out of its best first quarter (after the X-mas season) - stock goes up! The iPhone is coming in June - revenue up, stock goes up. Leopard is released in October - revenue up, stock goes up. X-mas season with all new h/w.... Perfect revenue management. Brilliant!
Even though it's 6 weeks later - can't resist to put my 2-cents in here: Yes - I do believe that Leopard has been delayed to fully integrate ZFS.
What file system will OS X use for booting the system? Since ZFS currently doesn't have that capability will Apple still use HFS+? Wouldn't having a separate file systems on a consumer machine be somewhat pointless?
One more thing: Why did the delay of Leopard not affect the stock price?
I think most people realized that a short delay in Leopard means very little in Apple's overall growth.
What file system will OS X use for booting the system? Since ZFS currently doesn't have that capability will Apple still use HFS+? Wouldn't having a separate file systems on a consumer machine be somewhat pointless?
Not necessarily . . . various pros and cons to it and the whole thing could be seamless to the user.
You could have a core boot file system containing the absolute core of the OS which started up the system and the ZFS file volume. From there, the ZFS file loaded loads the rest of the OS ( UI etc ).
The boot file system could be kept closely guarded and untouchable by the general OS user and in effect, the only thing the user sees is the ZFS volume and all the normal OSX stuff within it.
Hiding things from the average user is pretty common place anyhow ... look at the rootkit issues of Sony debacle. So hiding a boot volume that kick starts the ZFS is no different.
i don't know whether you're right or not. but that's the first logical explanation i've seen of what otherwise seemed inexplicable: apple announcing a new product six months in advance.
If you want to look at it logically, think about the iPhone's target market: consumers who already have a mobile phone and are under contract. Now think about contracts expiring.
Assuming those contracts were signed equally throughout the year then 25% of the targeted customers on a 2 year agreement (and 50% of those on a 1 year contract) will be past the contract expiration and free to buy the iPhone when it is released. The numbers double when it comes to the Christmas buying season. If Steve had waited until June to announce the iPhone he would be faced with a very small percentage of potential customers who were free of their contracts.
Think about it. Steve could have briefly mentioned the iPhone and the FCC filing at MWSF and gone to other things. Instead he spent most of his time giving a sales presentation to target customers so they would not renew their expiring contracts. They even put a link to the presentation on the main page of their website.
Was it smart? Wait for pictures of the lines outside the Apple Store on the day the iPhone is released to find out.