no MMS on iphone!??!

Posted:
in Future Apple Hardware edited January 2014
http://www.macrumors.com/2007/06/08/...ning-workbook/



Now that really just ticks me off. It could be just a rumor...but i dont remember Steve saying anything about MMS in the keynote. And the app just says SMS.



I think that'd be pretty stupid of apple, especially since theres a 2MP camera on it.

Comments

  • Reply 1 of 19
    kickahakickaha Posts: 8,760member
    Why, when there's a full email client capable of handling it?
  • Reply 2 of 19
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Kickaha View Post


    Why, when there's a full email client capable of handling it?



    I think the contention is that most phones (that you may want to send a message to) are capable of receiving MMS messages but are not capable of receiving rich-content emails.
  • Reply 3 of 19
    kickahakickaha Posts: 8,760member
    Is that true though? Maybe I'm just not a cutting edge guy, but if I'm going to be sending people 2MP pictures, my thoughts turn to email, not their phones. As it is, I don't use a phone camera because it feels like the pictures are locked onto the phone... unless I use the cell network's MMS capability and get nicely screwed on the charges for it. Emailing folks is what I *want* to do, but can't in most cases.



    Odd. I've always seen MMS as a poor cousin to rich content email or messaging, and one created to ensure a revenue stream for the cell networks.
  • Reply 4 of 19
    kickahakickaha Posts: 8,760member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by RexTraverse View Post


    And you would be right. MMS is no match for Email. However, if I see something amusing that I want to send a quick picture of to a friend with an iPhone (or a Sidekick 2, which also doesn't have MMS), I'd certainly rather set my phone camera to lo-res and MMS it for free on my Cingular unlimited messaging plan versus racking up much more expensive data bandwidth emailing it.



    Fair enough, but I see that as a combination of a) requiring you to use their network (WiFi bypasses that nicely), and b) how they structure their plans. We haven't seen the iPhone plan options yet - it's going to be interesting.



    Quote:

    By not including MMS, Apple is restricting the content that iPhone customers can receive.



    Hmm. I disagree with this statement. Apple is restricting the set of users who can send to the iPhone from their mobile devices, but they're not restricting the *content*. (Okay, semantics, but this is a convoluted enough topic that I think precision is a good thing.)



    Quote:

    And with a cell phone that is not set up to receive emails, any messages emailed to my SMS/MMS account that exceed my data per message limit are simply rejected or cut off, limiting what iPhone customers can send to others.



    I guess I'm not seeing the difference here if someone sends you a massive MMS item. Are pics taken with most cameras auto-scaled down to fit into an MMS message if sent via that route? It would seem to be a simple thing to do on an iPhone, as well.



    I'll admit I'm not an MMS user, but honest-to-god email has me much more interested than MMS would. I can always scale down a pic or downsample an audio file to accommodate an MMS client, in the same way that I do for folks who are still on dial-up, or using POP3. Actually, that would be a very nice auto-filter for Apple to include, wouldn't it?
  • Reply 5 of 19
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Kickaha View Post


    Is that true though? Maybe I'm just not a cutting edge guy, but if I'm going to be sending people 2MP pictures, my thoughts turn to email, not their phones. As it is, I don't use a phone camera because it feels like the pictures are locked onto the phone... unless I use the cell network's MMS capability and get nicely screwed on the charges for it. Emailing folks is what I *want* to do, but can't in most cases.



    Odd. I've always seen MMS as a poor cousin to rich content email or messaging, and one created to ensure a revenue stream for the cell networks.



    MMS *is* a poor cousin to rich content but when you want to send a quick 120x160 pic to someone, of a subject which doesn't require a 2MP photo, MMS is by far the most prevalent way to do so on a cell-phone.
  • Reply 6 of 19
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Kickaha View Post


    Why, when there's a full email client capable of handling it?



    I always get pictures from my friends and stuff(Im younger than 18) and ill feel left out if i cant get any.
  • Reply 7 of 19
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Kickaha View Post


    Is that true though? Maybe I'm just not a cutting edge guy, but if I'm going to be sending people 2MP pictures, my thoughts turn to email, not their phones. As it is, I don't use a phone camera because it feels like the pictures are locked onto the phone... unless I use the cell network's MMS capability and get nicely screwed on the charges for it. Emailing folks is what I *want* to do, but can't in most cases.



    Odd. I've always seen MMS as a poor cousin to rich content email or messaging, and one created to ensure a revenue stream for the cell networks.



    And you would be right. MMS is no match for Email. However, if I see something amusing that I want to send a quick picture of to a friend with an iPhone (or a Sidekick 2, which also doesn't have MMS), I'd certainly rather set my phone camera to lo-res and MMS it for free on my Cingular unlimited messaging plan versus racking up much more expensive data bandwidth emailing it.



    By not including MMS, Apple is restricting the content that iPhone customers can receive. And with a cell phone that is not set up to receive emails, any messages emailed to my SMS/MMS account that exceed my data per message limit are simply rejected or cut off, limiting what iPhone customers can send to others.
  • Reply 8 of 19
    kickahakickaha Posts: 8,760member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by RexTraverse View Post


    And you would be right. MMS is no match for Email. However, if I see something amusing that I want to send a quick picture of to a friend with an iPhone (or a Sidekick 2, which also doesn't have MMS), I'd certainly rather set my phone camera to lo-res and MMS it for free on my Cingular unlimited messaging plan versus racking up much more expensive data bandwidth emailing it.



    Fair enough, but I see that as a combination of a) requiring you to use their network (WiFi bypasses that nicely), and b) how they structure their plans. We haven't seen the iPhone plan options yet - it's going to be interesting.



    Quote:

    By not including MMS, Apple is restricting the content that iPhone customers can receive.



    Hmm. I disagree with this statement. Apple is restricting the set of users who can send to the iPhone from their mobile devices, but they're not restricting the *content*. (Okay, semantics, but this is a convoluted enough topic that I think precision is a good thing.)



    Quote:

    And with a cell phone that is not set up to receive emails, any messages emailed to my SMS/MMS account that exceed my data per message limit are simply rejected or cut off, limiting what iPhone customers can send to others.



    I guess I'm not seeing the difference here if someone sends you a massive MMS item. Are pics taken with most cameras auto-scaled down to fit into an MMS message if sent via that route? It would seem to be a simple thing to do on an iPhone, as well.



    And really - if you have an email gateway to your SMS/MMS acct, then... there's no problem, is there? They mail it instead of MMS it, but it still gets to you, yes? (Hmm, I wonder if there's a reverse gateway at AT&T for this - send it as MMS, and have it forwarded to an email address instead...)



    I'll admit I'm not an MMS user, but honest-to-god email has me much more interested than MMS would. I can always scale down a pic or downsample an audio file to accommodate an MMS client, in the same way that I do for folks who are still on dial-up, or using POP3. Actually, that would be a very nice auto-filter for Apple to include, wouldn't it?
  • Reply 9 of 19
    Okay, if Apple were to release some sort of MMS widget that would automatically scale down photos and limit text in a MMS message, that might be an acceptable workaround, but the point is why are we needing a workaround in the first place?



    To answer your question, no... the network (at least Cingular and Verizon) do not automatically scale down pictures. They remove them altogether - at least that's what they did everytime anyone I knew with a Sidekick tried emailing a picture to my SMS/MMS address. Text emails were broken up into multiple messages, which isn't a big deal for me, but I could see someone who is paying for SMS on a per message basis getting incredibly pissed off with some long email broken up into 140-150 character SMS texts.



    One can argue the benefits of email over SMS/MMS constantly, but the truth is the networks in the US have not made email as cost effective. I pay a pittance every month for unlimited text and multimedia messaging, and trust me I use that feature like crazy, for both work and personal messages, and as most of my contacts have some sort of messaging plan, it's a great way to communicate quick bits of information. Email requires a data plan, and while Cingular has made it clear it's going to force data plans onto iPhone customers, where does that leave the rest of us?



    A workaround by Apple would restrict what the rest of us can send to iPhone customers (not as if there's any way to tell except when the iPhone user says he never received our message), thereby limiting what the iPhone user can receive. I don't know... maybe content was a poor choice or words, but by not including such a basic and popular technology, it's restricting the types of communication the iPhone user can participate in, because guaranteed I will not be wasting my 5MB of data use every month to send basic MMS messages to iPhone users (just as I don't to any of my friends or colleagues with Sidekicks)
  • Reply 10 of 19
    kickahakickaha Posts: 8,760member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by RexTraverse View Post


    Okay, if Apple were to release some sort of MMS widget that would automatically scale down photos and limit text in a MMS message, that might be an acceptable workaround, but the point is why are we needing a workaround in the first place?



    Flip the question around - why do we need MMS in the first place? Seriously - if you have email, why do you need MMS?



    If the answer is "because everyone else uses MMS", but at the same time "...and they provide email gateways", then you're right back to having to answer "Why use MMS?"



    Quote:

    To answer your question, no... the network (at least Cingular and Verizon) do not automatically scale down pictures. They remove them altogether - at least that's what they did everytime anyone I knew with a Sidekick tried emailing a picture to my SMS/MMS address.



    Oh, no, I meant on the *sending* end. If you take a 2MP camera phone pic, and send it with MMS, does it get through? Or, does the sending phone scale it down because it knows it is an MMS pipe? Or, does it simply do the stupid thing and let you send it, with an invisible failure on the other end?



    I'm thinking more along the lines of iPhoto/Mail sharing. When in iPhoto, if you send it through Mail, you get the option of what to scale it to. On the iPhone, if you send to someone's MMS email account, have it simply auto-scale down appropriately before you send it.



    Quote:

    Text emails were broken up into multiple messages, which isn't a big deal for me, but I could see someone who is paying for SMS on a per message basis getting incredibly pissed off with some long email broken up into 140-150 character SMS texts.



    True. That's just kind of... annoying.



    Quote:

    One can argue the benefits of email over SMS/MMS constantly, but the truth is the networks in the US have not made email as cost effective.



    Bingo. It's not a technical problem, it's a lame business model problem.



    Quote:

    I pay a pittance every month for unlimited text and multimedia messaging, and trust me I use that feature like crazy, for both work and personal messages, and as most of my contacts have some sort of messaging plan, it's a great way to communicate quick bits of information. Email requires a data plan, and while Cingular has made it clear it's going to force data plans onto iPhone customers, where does that leave the rest of us?



    Well, email on *your* end requires a data plan. What I'm trying to say, perhaps not effectively, (and no, it's not perfect) is...



    If your phone has SMS and MMS, and you have an email gateway that can bounce messages to you appropriately, then any email client out there can send you information, correct? *You* don't need to have email, or a data plan, as long as the person *sending* to you knows that it's coming to your phone, and can adjust what they send accordingly, right?



    In other words - why does it matter to anyone else if the iPhone has no MMS, if their MMS has an email gateway that the iPhone can send to? MMS is cell-only, while email is ubiquitous.



    If I know I'm sending to someone's phone, I don't send them the 7MP pic I took with my Canon, but I send them a tiny thumbnail of it. I also don't send them massive missives, but quick notes. I don't see this as any different than if I know they have a dialup account (and yes, I note that in my Address Book as well to remind me when I send to them). If I could note that a certain email account was their phone account, and let Mail (Mac or iPhone) warn me of large messages, and offer to downscale images, etc appropriately... that would be slick.



    Quote:

    A workaround by Apple would restrict what the rest of us can send to iPhone customers (not as if there's any way to tell except when the iPhone user says he never received our message), thereby limiting what the iPhone user can receive.



    Huh? No, you're looking at this backwards. The iPhone can *receive* anything you send to an email address. There's no limitation there. The possible limitation is what everyone else can receive through MMS. It's a subset of what email can do. There are no technological reasons why more phones can't email. Like you said, it's a matter of data plans crafted by the cell companies to maximize their revenue. You choose (or not) to send pictures, etc, because of cost, not because of technical limitations. Those costs are pretty artificial. IMO, Apple is trying to do to the cell industry what they did to music. They're breaking the current business model by trying to commoditize the cell networks into just another ISP. The presence of WiFi, and that it is the primary and preferred connection for data, should be proof of that. Toss a VOIP app on there, and the cell network becomes just your 'oh crap, I can't find a WAP, gotta use the fallback' solution. Boom - the cell network is a second class citizen, only used when you can't find a free, faster hookup.



    Quote:

    I don't know... maybe content was a poor choice or words, but by not including such a basic and popular technology, it's restricting the types of communication the iPhone user can participate in, because guaranteed I will not be wasting my 5MB of data use every month to send basic MMS messages to iPhone users (just as I don't to any of my friends or colleagues with Sidekicks)



    Fair enough - like I said, I think an MMS -> email gateway service would solve that completely. If you're on an MMS only phone, send it to the iPhone owner's MMS number, and it will forward it to their email account. Done.



    Just to be clear, I'm not saying that this is either the way Apple is thinking, or that I'm right. Only that, as someone who has always thought that MMS was even more of a ripoff for the consumer than SMS, I don't see what the loss is, given: rich content email + alternate network connections + email -> MMS/SMS when sending to other people. The only piece missing is how MMS/SMS-only phones send something to an email account. If that's doable, then this is, to me, a no-brainer. SMS/MMS becomes the fringe solution, and email becomes the common denominator. And for once, it's not the *lowest* common denominator, but a step up.



    The barriers to this in the past have been cost-based, put in place by the cell networks, not technology. Those just may be coming down in the next couple of years.
  • Reply 11 of 19
    You know... I do think we pretty much agree on pretty much all points here, just approaching it from different PoVs.



    As for scaling pictures, to be honest I'm not certain. My phone has a MMS resolution feature on the camea image quality setting called "MMS 0.3M". You can probably figure out what that stands for. I have it set to that as default, so honestly I've never tried sending anything bigger.



    And that "workaround" statement... sorry about that. I wrote something but decided to rephrase the whole thing. I can see why that didn't make much sense.
  • Reply 12 of 19
    kickahakickaha Posts: 8,760member
    No worries. I admittedly come from this from a position of ignorance, since MMS isn't something I've ever really used. It just seems so... silly. (And limited, and overpriced, and, and, and...) *shrug* I guess I think of the iPhone as a handheld computer with one foot in the world of the closed environment of cellular networks, instead of a phone trying to branch out. From that perspective, I think the decision to apparently not have MMS is fine, and may work out best for the long run.
  • Reply 13 of 19
    amoryaamorya Posts: 1,103member
    Main downsides of email over MMS:



    1: I don't know all my friends' email addresses but I know all their phone numbers.



    2: If I send an email, it will go to their computer and not their phone. No-one receives email on their phone that I know of.
  • Reply 14 of 19
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Kickaha View Post


    Why, when there's a full email client capable of handling it?





    wwll, what about those others that send you a picture from their MMS capable phone and it just doest come thru???

    ... then you have to tell tthen to email it to you?? maybe thier free verizon phones don't have email but most other camera phones in the world can send a pic via mms..



    i dont think Apple thought this one thru to well...



    I was pretty surprised when i kept getting messages from my brother( who is an avid Apple fan) and i coudnt see the pictures.. i sne him an msg back and told him my phone didnt have MMS capability.... he asked me what type of cheap phone did i have... when i told him ...i got no respone... Apple screwed this one up....
  • Reply 15 of 19
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tomc23 View Post


    wwll, what about those others that send you a picture from their MMS capable phone and it just doest come thru???

    ... then you have to tell tthen to email it to you?? maybe thier free verizon phones don't have email but most other camera phones in the world can send a pic via mms..



    There will always be a digital divide, that is just the way it is. Those that don't subscribe to modern thinking eventually end up living in the back waters of society.

    Quote:



    i dont think Apple thought this one thru to well...



    Actually I think both AT&T and Apple both thought long and hard on this one. AT&T because of the negative publicity that SMS itself gets them along with the fact that MMS isn't well supported via the various carriers. Lets face it the whole SMS MMS thing has turned into a system to exploit the users of the services. I see AT7T as trying to ride themselves of the services and is likely why they made SMS optional.



    Speaking of which I made sure that I excluded SMS support on my iPhone. It is a silly backwards technology in the day and age of Web and E-Mail services. People that can't adapt to E-Mail simply aren't worth having in your circle of friends. Now a days it is as basic as reading writing and arithmetic.

    Quote:



    I was pretty surprised when i kept getting messages from my brother( who is an avid Apple fan) and i coudnt see the pictures.. i sne him an msg back and told him my phone didnt have MMS capability.... he asked me what type of cheap phone did i have... when i told him ...i got no respone... Apple screwed this one up....



    Oh come on how could one possibly be surprised? I mean really iPhone has never been advertised as having MMS support and it has been highlighted in just about every review so how could you possibly think that it is there?



    Well we can see who has back bone in your family. You should have berated him for not using modern and cheaper alternatives. I mean really you have choice in life when faced with conflict and sticking your head in the sand will not lead to resolutions in your favor.



    dave
  • Reply 16 of 19
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Amorya View Post


    Main downsides of email over MMS:



    1: I don't know all my friends' email addresses but I know all their phone numbers.



    2: If I send an email, it will go to their computer and not their phone. No-one receives email on their phone that I know of.



    At some point you didn't know your friends phone numbers. Get off yer rear and add those email addresses in that address book.





    What will I ever do w/o MMS on my phone!! I better just kill myself.
  • Reply 17 of 19
    kickahakickaha Posts: 8,760member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tomc23 View Post


    wwll, what about those others that send you a picture from their MMS capable phone and it just doest come thru???



    You mean like when I was on Verizon?



    I now have an iPhone, and SMS/MMS with folks all the time, with actually fewer issues.



    Quote:

    ... then you have to tell tthen to email it to you?? maybe thier free verizon phones don't have email but most other camera phones in the world can send a pic via mms..



    Nope.



    Quote:

    i dont think Apple thought this one thru to well...



    They did.



    Quote:

    I was pretty surprised when i kept getting messages from my brother( who is an avid Apple fan) and i coudnt see the pictures.. i sne him an msg back and told him my phone didnt have MMS capability.... he asked me what type of cheap phone did i have... when i told him ...i got no respone... Apple screwed this one up....



    ur using it rong.



    Here's what I do: anyone who I want to SMS/MMS with, I make a new email address in their Contact list of their phone number, through their carrier's gateway.



    What gateway you ask? Glad you asked: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SMS_gateway



    For instance, say my brother's phone # is 666 555 1212, and he's on Verizon. I make an email address of [email protected] in his Contacts entry, and save it with a tag of SMS (use the custom tagging to make this.) I sent him an email to that address, and it gets routed to his phone via SMS. He gets it immediately, no delay, just like any other SMS. I told him to save that message, and anytime he wants to text me, to respond to *that*, instead of starting a new message. It gets routed back to my email address that it was originally sent from on my iPhone. See, you can respond via SMS to email from most carriers, but it's kind of a pain. This way we let the gateway do the appropriate email<->phone translation, and then responding just reuses that info.



    This also means that, no matter what device I'm at, through the fun of syncing my Contacts, I can send a short email to his phone. I don't have to have my phone available, or charged. This is great for emergencies.



    He had to do nothing, I just had to enter an email address for his phone. Done. Oddly enough, the only time I use this is when I need to get ahold of him ASAP and he's not answering his phone. The most common msg I send is "Call me." (The second most common msg is "Don't txt me, call me. I don't have a msg plan." At which point I explain to them that they will receive a text message from me, to save it, and use that in the future. I only have one person who still hasn't gotten the hint, and I'm just going to start sending him a bill. :P)



    I suspect that in a couple of years, the idea of sending a message to a *DEVICE* instead of a *person* will seem quaint and archaic.
  • Reply 18 of 19
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Kickaha View Post


    Here's what I do: anyone who I want to SMS/MMS with, I make a new email address in their Contact list of their phone number, through their carrier's gateway.



    Right, and how many "average" people can do this? The iPhone is supposed to be the "easy to use" smartphone, yet I almost got lost following your directions. Why would I take an extra 10 steps to do something, and then instruct everybody in my contact list who messages me to take an extra couple of steps, to do something different just because I have an iPhone.



    My 18 year old cousin put it this way?"so your $299 iPhone can't do picture messages? I got this phone for free and it can do it. why can't your phone do it?" I couldn't come up with a good reason WHY Apple choose not to include this feature.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Kickaha View Post


    He had to do nothing, I just had to enter an email address for his phone. Done. Oddly enough, the only time I use this is when I need to get ahold of him ASAP and he's not answering his phone. The most common msg I send is "Call me." (The second most common msg is "Don't txt me, call me. I don't have a msg plan."



    OK now this explains everything. I have four brothers, all younger--the youngest is 20 and I am the oldest at 30. I get MMS and text messages from at least one of them daily, and that's not counting my cousins and friends who are all avid texters. To tell all of them they have to do something different to text me is ridiculous and it won't work. (And it IS different to tell them they have to use a different contact entry to call me vs text me). That is pretty stupid and the iPhone is one of the few devices that lacks this capability, and probably the only smartphone that lacks it.
  • Reply 19 of 19
    kickahakickaha Posts: 8,760member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by skittlebrau79 View Post


    Right, and how many "average" people can do this? The iPhone is supposed to be the "easy to use" smartphone, yet I almost got lost following your directions. Why would I take an extra 10 steps to do something,



    One, really. Add an email address to their contact. If an iPhone user can't do this... why the hell do they have an iPhone?



    Quote:

    and then instruct everybody in my contact list who messages me to take an extra couple of steps, to do something different just because I have an iPhone.



    "Call me at my other number." "You mean I have to do *something different*??"







    Quote:

    My 18 year old cousin put it this way—"so your $299 iPhone can't do picture messages? I got this phone for free and it can do it. why can't your phone do it?" I couldn't come up with a good reason WHY Apple choose not to include this feature.



    "Why can't your phone do what my handheld with half the power could 10 years ago, and email me?"



    Here's a reason for you: because it's 1970s technology that you're getting assraped for by the carrier. Carriers *LOVE* this crap because it costs them nothing, but you pay through the nose. It's quite possibly the sweetest scam in technology today, with the possible exception of PTT. (Newsflash - the carrier saves money every time you hit that PTT button, but you're paying extra for the service of annoying the shit out of everyone around you with *both* sides of your conversation.)



    Quote:

    OK now this explains everything. I have four brothers, all younger--the youngest is 20 and I am the oldest at 30. I get MMS and text messages from at least one of them daily, and that's not counting my cousins and friends who are all avid texters. To tell all of them they have to do something different to text me is ridiculous and it won't work. (And it IS different to tell them they have to use a different contact entry to call me vs text me)



    Naw, you did get lost. They respond to a saved message, or send it to your email '#'. But your point is valid in that it does require them to do something ever so slightly different. God forbid.



    Of course, most folks I've taught how to send texts/pics to *anyone with a computer through email from their phone* has thought it was pretty damned cool once they realized what it was actually doing.



    But, if they're not going to get that, then there's not much you can do.



    It's all about the sales pitch. Instead of 'stupid iPhone can't do MMS', it turns into 'let me show you how to send an email to anyone on the planet with an email account, from your phone'. Their choice, and yours, of course.



    Quote:

    That is pretty stupid and the iPhone is one of the few devices that lacks this capability, and probably the only smartphone that lacks it.



    Well, then that's your choice to spend the extortion money for their convenience. I choose not to. It's a legacy technology that is merely well marketed and priced exorbitantly. You may as well ask why it doesn't have a built-in Minitel client.



    In the end, I guess it gives folks without a good understanding of technology to bitch.



    Edit: Look what hit gizmodo... http://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/M...295261668&mt=8



    It automates that phone # -> email portion for you, and gives you a landscape SMS keyboard to boot.
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