Marvin had given a good picture of the Mini in an earlier thread. Unfortunately, the Mini is being discontinued.
In case the Mini wasn't replaced with something better, I planned to upgrade my G4 tower. However, I was convinced by you guys that even if I put a lot of $ into the G4, it would still not be as good as a Mini. Then I planned to look for a Mini at MacMall, etc.
I just received the July 2007 issue of MacWorld. Neither MacMall nor MacConnection had the Mini in their lineup. Ouch.
Has anyone been in an Apple Store lately? Are the stores still selling them?
If the Mini is not replaced and I can't find one at one of the MacOutlets, I think I'll slit my wrists. APPLE, MY BLOOD WILL BE ON YOUR HANDS. Will my choice be between an AIO that I don't want and a Mac Pro I can't afford?
Any words of encouragement? Anyone?
Maybe, the Mini is being discontinued. Until Apple announces that, it's just a rumor.
Not in the July 2007 issue of MacWorld I got. They may have been in last month's issue but not this one.
Oh, you're referring to the printed ads. Have no fear, the websites show plenty of stock at this point. Better have your finger on the button Monday afternoon though, in case the announcement comes that the mini is no more. They'll sell out fast, I expect.
But, people don't want smaller drives. They want bigger drives. And then, after that, they want bigger drives.
32 Gb drives will only be considered by people (except under unusual circumstances) when buying UMPC's, or other machines of that ilk, like, perhaps a 2 pound, or lighter, 11', or smaller screen model.
The biggest drive available in the mini right now from Apple is 80 gigs. My mini has a 40gig hard drive. But I have nearly 500 gigs of storage because I added external hard drives.
Rather than think of the mini as a complete package, I would like to see an inexpensive device that serves as the starting point, leaving it up to owners to upgrade as they see fit.
As long as the base mini was capable enough for someone to use it for basic stuff like surfing the Internet, e-mailing, etc., if the potential were there to use the machine for more demanding tasks through some inexpensive upgrades, I don't see a problem. A 40gig hard drive would certainly do the trick in that context. Considering the low cost of adding external hard drives, I hardly think it's a big deal that the mini has modest storage in its base form. A flash drive, in the not-too-distant future, will get the job done.
The biggest drive available in the mini right now from Apple is 80 gigs. My mini has a 40gig hard drive. But I have nearly 500 gigs of storage because I added external hard drives.
Rather than think of the mini as a complete package, I would like to see an inexpensive device that serves as the starting point, leaving it up to owners to upgrade as they see fit.
As long as the base mini was capable enough for someone to use it for basic stuff like surfing the Internet, e-mailing, etc., if the potential were there to use the machine for more demanding tasks through some inexpensive upgrades, I don't see a problem. A 40gig hard drive would certainly do the trick in that context. Considering the low cost of adding external hard drives, I hardly think it's a big deal that the mini has modest storage in its base form. A flash drive, in the not-too-distant future, will get the job done.
You've missed all of the discussions we've had about the fact that people rarely add to their system as bought from the factory.
If you look at all of the people who buy a Mini, (or iMac), you will find that few have purchased external drives.
That's why so many here, and elsewhere, have complained that Apple doesn't offer the bigger drives for it.
Most people who buy a Mini, or iMac, don't want their desk, or audio/video systems messed up with external appliances.
With the Mini, Apple is selling a relatively low priced model. No one is going to pay another $100 for a drive one third the size of what they could get otherwise.
Don't get blinded by the idea of flash drives. While they will serve a purpose for portables, esp. the smallest ones, they serve much less of a purpose right now for a desktop.
Except for speed and noise. A 32GB flash drive in a mini might nearly double the price of a mini at $350 but it would make it a better HTPC. A BTO option with the flash HDD wouldn't be a bad option. The last thing I want in a small enclosure HTPC is one or more 500GB or 750GB drives screaming away.
Most modern hard drives aren't that bad, and the Seagate & Samsung hard drives are very quiet. I've got a four drive Firmtek enclosure next to my HTPC and it's fine. So far, no one complains about it, and no one can even hear it when I mention it.
You've missed all of the discussions we've had about the fact that people rarely add to their system as bought from the factory.
If you look at all of the people who buy a Mini, (or iMac), you will find that few have purchased external drives.
That's why so many here, and elsewhere, have complained that Apple doesn't offer the bigger drives for it.
Most people who buy a Mini, or iMac, don't want their desk, or audio/video systems messed up with external appliances.
With the Mini, Apple is selling a relatively low priced model. No one is going to pay another $100 for a drive one third the size of what they could get otherwise.
Don't get blinded by the idea of flash drives. While they will serve a purpose for portables, esp. the smallest ones, they serve much less of a purpose right now for a desktop.
That makes zero sense. Even if Apple offered bigger drives, the cost would be higher than simply buying an external drive, as I have done. My USB2 320 gig drive cost all of $180. I've installed my entire music collection on it. If, for example, I want to add an additional 250 gigs to an iMac, here in Canada the cost through Apple is $240.
If cost is not relevent, frankly what are you doing buying a mini in the first place?
Personally I think it's not rational to expect Apple, at this time, to offer the degree of miniaturization only possible through the use of laptop components while at the same time providing the storage capacity, etc. of a typical desktop system. The mini is not a typical desktop machine and that means if you want typical desktop performance you need to make adjustments accordingly.
Seems to me that what you want is something like 500 gigs of storage, a superdrive and a computer the size of a postage stamp, for well under $1,000. Good luck with that in 2007.
And being as I can't afford spending the more than $2,000 Cdn. it takes to buy a tower, have far too much invested in Mac software to consider switching, love the Apple software in any case, and need to have plenty of storage, buying a mini and augmenting it with an external hard drive is clearly a no-brainer. Even with the peripherals I've added, my set-up still checks in at under $1,000 (not including my monitor which is nine years old but still looking good).
The way I see it, I could either buy the mini, not add to it, complaining that Apple didn't give me enough storage, meaning I couldn't do what I wanted to or I could buy the mini, add the needed storage, and do all the things I want to with the system right now.
If down the road, advances made it possible for me to have a mini form factor with full-size tower capabilities, excellent. But in the meantime I'm making the best of what's available. As an Apple shareholder, frankly I think that it's a good thing that Apple isn't operated as a non-profit organization.
Also, the mini with a hard drive in the 40-60 gig range, is certainly more than adequete for the needs of the casual computer user who basically just wants to do e-mail, surf the net and run a few other programs. If you want to do more sophisticated work and refuse to add peripherals, don't even put the mini on your shopping list. It's not what the basic machine is intended for. On the other hand, for someone like me who is on a budget and is willing to put a few externals on my desktop, the mini is a great to have around as a lower-cost Mac option.
You've missed all of the discussions we've had about the fact that people rarely add to their system as bought from the factory.
If you look at all of the people who buy a Mini, (or iMac), you will find that few have purchased external drives.
That's why so many here, and elsewhere, have complained that Apple doesn't offer the bigger drives for it.
Most people who buy a Mini, or iMac, don't want their desk, or audio/video systems messed up with external appliances.
With the Mini, Apple is selling a relatively low priced model. No one is going to pay another $100 for a drive one third the size of what they could get otherwise.
Don't get blinded by the idea of flash drives. While they will serve a purpose for portables, esp. the smallest ones, they serve much less of a purpose right now for a desktop.
That makes zero sense. Even if Apple offered bigger drives, the cost would be higher than simply buying an external drive, as I have done. My USB2 320 gig drive cost all of $180. I've installed my entire music collection on it. If, for example, I want to add an additional 250 gigs to an iMac, here in Canada the cost through Apple is $240.
If cost is not relevent, frankly what are you doing buying a mini in the first place?
Personally I think it's not rational to expect Apple, at this time, to offer the degree of miniaturization only possible through the use of laptop components while at the same time providing the storage capacity, etc. of a typical desktop system. The mini is not a typical desktop machine and that means if you want typical desktop performance you need to make adjustments accordingly.
Seems to me that what you want is something like 500 gigs of storage, a superdrive and a computer the size of a postage stamp, for well under $1,000. Good luck with that in 2007.
And being as I can't afford spending the more than $2,000 Cdn. it takes to buy a tower, have far too much invested in Mac software to consider switching, love the Apple software in any case, and need to have plenty of storage, buying a mini and augmenting it with an external hard drive is clearly a no-brainer. Even with the peripherals I've added, my set-up still checks in at under $1,000 (not including my monitor which is nine years old but still looking good).
The way I see it, I could either buy the mini, not add to it, complaining that Apple didn't give me enough storage, meaning I couldn't do what I wanted to or I could buy the mini, add the needed storage, and do all the things I want to with the system right now.
If down the road, advances made it possible for me to have a mini form factor with full-size tower capabilities, excellent. But in the meantime I'm making the best of what's available. As an Apple shareholder, frankly I think that it's a good thing that Apple isn't operated as a non-profit organization.
Also, the mini with a hard drive in the 60-80 gig range, is certainly more than adequete for the needs of the casual computer user who basically just wants to do e-mail, surf the net and run a few other programs. If you want to do more sophisticated work and refuse to add peripherals, don't even put the mini on your shopping list. It's not what the basic machine is intended for. On the other hand, for someone like me who is on a budget and is willing to put a few externals on my desktop, the mini is great to have around as a lower-cost Mac option.
So don't. Park a NAS somewhere and get to it wireless.
Right. People who buy Mini's are going to buy an NAS and hook that up instead.
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Except for speed and noise. A 32GB flash drive in a mini might nearly double the price of a mini at $350 but it would make it a better HTPC. A BTO option with the flash HDD wouldn't be a bad option. The last thing I want in a small enclosure HTPC is one or more 500GB or 750GB drives screaming away.
I don't know. Mini's are bought because they are small, but mostly because they are fairly cheap. Most of the writing here about Mini Hd's are about the fact that Apple should have made the model a bit larger to accommodate the much bigger capacity, and cheaper, 3.5" drives. I don't think that going SS is a solution at this time.
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If I can park 2-3TB in a 4 bay NAS somewhere I don't care about noise that's more useful since its available to every PC in the house.
Vinea
I have no problem with that, but it isn't a solution for the Mini user.
That makes zero sense. Even if Apple offered bigger drives, the cost would be higher than simply buying an external drive, as I have done. My USB2 320 gig drive cost all of $180. I've installed my entire music collection on it. If, for example, I want to add an additional 250 gigs to an iMac, here in Canada the cost through Apple is $240.
If cost is not relevent, frankly what are you doing buying a mini in the first place?
Personally I think it's not rational to expect Apple, at this time, to offer the degree of miniaturization only possible through the use of laptop components while at the same time providing the storage capacity, etc. of a typical desktop system. The mini is not a typical desktop machine and that means if you want typical desktop performance you need to make adjustments accordingly.
Seems to me that what you want is something like 500 gigs of storage, a superdrive and a computer the size of a postage stamp, for well under $1,000. Good luck with that in 2007.
And being as I can't afford spending the more than $2,000 Cdn. it takes to buy a tower, have far too much invested in Mac software to consider switching, love the Apple software in any case, and need to have plenty of storage, buying a mini and augmenting it with an external hard drive is clearly a no-brainer. Even with the peripherals I've added, my set-up still checks in at under $1,000 (not including my monitor which is nine years old but still looking good).
The way I see it, I could either buy the mini, not add to it, complaining that Apple didn't give me enough storage, meaning I couldn't do what I wanted to or I could buy the mini, add the needed storage, and do all the things I want to with the system right now.
If down the road, advances made it possible for me to have a mini form factor with full-size tower capabilities, excellent. But in the meantime I'm making the best of what's available. As an Apple shareholder, frankly I think that it's a good thing that Apple isn't operated as a non-profit organization.
Also, the mini with a hard drive in the 40-60 gig range, is certainly more than adequete for the needs of the casual computer user who basically just wants to do e-mail, surf the net and run a few other programs. If you want to do more sophisticated work and refuse to add peripherals, don't even put the mini on your shopping list. It's not what the basic machine is intended for. On the other hand, for someone like me who is on a budget and is willing to put a few externals on my desktop, the mini is a great to have around as a lower-cost Mac option.
See? You did miss the discussions. Read my reply to Vinea, which, for some reason, in my browser window, has appeared above his earlier post.
Most people who buy a Mini, or iMac, don't want their desk, or audio/video systems messed up with external appliances.
So don't. Park a NAS somewhere and get to it wireless.
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With the Mini, Apple is selling a relatively low priced model. No one is going to pay another $100 for a drive one third the size of what they could get otherwise.
Don't get blinded by the idea of flash drives. While they will serve a purpose for portables, esp. the smallest ones, they serve much less of a purpose right now for a desktop.
Except for speed and noise. A 32GB flash drive in a mini might nearly double the price of a mini at $350 but it would make it a better HTPC. A BTO option with the flash HDD wouldn't be a bad option. The last thing I want in a small enclosure HTPC is one or more 500GB or 750GB drives screaming away.
If I can park 2-3TB in a 4 bay NAS somewhere I don't care about noise that's more useful since its available to every PC in the house.
iMac owners buy external drives. I've two. We don't all live in 70's glossy white loft apartments where even our shoes have to match our computers. Saying that, I quite like the design of Lacie's D2 drives so that's what I've got. I can't actually see it though, it's behind the iMac and the piles of scribbles and bits of paper and manuals on my desk - yes I'm a programmer with an iMac and quite happy with that. Mac Pro? What for?
With the Mini, have you actually seen how cool the Mini looks stacked on top of one of the many drives and hubs built especially for it such as those from Lacie and Iomega? It looks great. Almost like the mid-tower the whingers whinge about except it's 15cm square not some honking great big slab-o-beige.
Really, I think you lot should stop pigeonholing the little mac that could as it's more than capable for most of the things in this thread that it allegedly can't do. For me it does one thing the other macs can't do and that's act as a quiet, cheap, compact server - and I don't mean just a file server.
I'm with you lad... the 3rd party stuff for the Mini solves almost all of its "problems." Indeed there are many things that actually make it useful for all of us with peripherals from previous generation macs or pcs or people, like me, who always buy the biggest monitor I can afford-- now 23" Cinema Display in preference to a super-fast internal drive on a machine used mainly for word-processing (albeit in English & Japanese(.
iMac owners buy external drives. I've two. We don't all live in 70's glossy white loft apartments where even our shoes have to match our computers. Saying that, I quite like the design of Lacie's D2 drives so that's what I've got. I can't actually see it though, it's behind the iMac and the piles of scribbles and bits of paper and manuals on my desk - yes I'm a programmer with an iMac and quite happy with that. Mac Pro? What for?
With the Mini, have you actually seen how cool the Mini looks stacked on top of one of the many drives and hubs built especially for it such as those from Lacie and Iomega? It looks great. Almost like the mid-tower the whingers whinge about except it's 15cm square not some honking great big slab-o-beige.
Really, I think you lot should stop pigeonholing the little mac that could as it's more than capable for most of the things in this thread that it allegedly can't do. For me it does one thing the other macs can't do and that's act as a quiet, cheap, compact server - and I don't mean just a file server.
My external miniStack via firewire transfers data faster than the internal drive.
My external DVD burner is faster than the SuperDrive would have been (CDRW installed in mini).
My next monitor may be LED--an option NOT available at the time of purchase.
For the price, the macmini does so many different tasks well enough.
I never imagined I would enjoy TWO computers on the same desktop!
Despite the talk here about how people do not modify their machines post purchase, all in one boxes will always have some components lagging behind. Seems like the computer world advances in some areas faster than others. Thus peripheral units are wise and economical extensions of the main mini brain.
Carmissimo may be slightly ahead of his time on the price of flash memory vs hard drives.
But the idea of a small quiet computer will live on.
Hey on the plus side of no new h/w announcements...no new h/w cancellations either. The mini lives on so far. If we could only get an update to Santa Rosa...
Hey on the plus side of no new h/w announcements...no new h/w cancellations either. The mini lives on so far. If we could only get an update to Santa Rosa...
I'm hoping that when Penyrn comes out, and it's all over the place in the trade shows now (unlike Barcelona, ha!), that we will see an overall move to it by Apple, including the Mini. It would be perfect.
See? You did miss the discussions. Read my reply to Vinea, which, for some reason, in my browser window, has appeared above his earlier post.
I think the mini has potential if Apple approaches it on a less-is-more basis. Considering Apple has traditionally taken a less-is-more approach, it wouldn't surprise me if in fact that will happen.
I do understand your logic in suggesting the form factor sacrifice would be worthwhile if it meant going with less expensive hard drive technology but you're taking the short-term view of this thing. The cost of components is dropping all the time. Before long, the larger hard drive form factor will not have the cost advantage it currently does.
And I really don't think desk clutter is that big a deal. I'll be quite honest about this. There is only one reason I bought a mini. I'm not exactly raking in the bucks. While the mini form factor is awesomely cool and there are applications where a very compact form factor is a big advantage, the mini is an inexpensive Mac and that's plenty enough reason for me to have bought one.
Considering that the mini I am running is roughly equivalent in performance to my previous Mac ? a dual 500 G4 tower that was state of the art when I bought it ? yet even with all the external items cost less than $1,000, I figure the thing is a big-time bargain. My G4 tower cost me more than $7,000 Cdn. by the time I had bought the machine, updated my graphics card, added an external DVD burner and added RAM.
If a mini capable of being a serviceable computer out of the box for the casual, low-demand user, is also able to be adapted to more demanding uses, to me that's a marvellous product. The 40 gigs of hard drive in my mini (first-generation) allows the machine to perform as required, with some externals added to the mix.
And I think that you are wrong about external hard drives being rarely purchased. They are so inexpensive and easy to hook up, that it's a no-brainer to go there. Rather than the mini itself housing the hard-drive technology for people who need a great deal more storage, I think it makes sense for the mini to be a hub, if you will, essentially controlling whatever items a user needs to add. The beauty of this is that you can customize your system according to your needs. If all I want to do is surf the net, I don't have to pay for tons of hard-drive capacity, etc. If, on the other hand, that extra capacity is needed, it's very easy and inexpensive to add.
I think, really, where the mini does need an upgrade is in terms of its graphics performance. Especially, it needs to be able to handle video better and be high-def friendly. I'm not worried about CPU speed because Intel is steadily upgrading the capabilities of its products. Within the next couple of years I would think Apple couldn't put a slow processor in the mini if they wanted to. I'm also hopeful that soon enough the minimum standard for integrated graphics will result in good performance for all.
And I could easily imagine, within a couple of years, a version of the mini half the size of the current model, that has no hard drive or optical drive. Right now, I'm running my OS off of a 7,200 RPM firewire drive and it works just fine. What I could imagine is Apple selling two versions of the mini, one stripped of even the hard drive and optical drive and another with flash memory and an optical drive. The stripped-down version, checking in at around $450 US would make a marvellous little product. Even after adding an external optical drive/burner and memory, you would have a decent little computer for not much more money than the current mini. In fact, in terms of cost in relation to performance, such a package would represent greater value than what Apple could offer in a integrated package such as the current mini. Besides, many of us already have the pieces to take advantage of such a device. From my perspective, by taking my existing hard drives and DVD burner, I could opt for the new stripped down mini as a great way to switch to the upcoming OS X update.
If there are far fewer consumers out there than I think there are who are positioned as I am, well then, that's another matter. But I suspect there must already by a lot of external hard drives and burners sitting in people's homes because I find it hard to believe that manufacturers are building those products just to satisfy my needs. And at well under $200 each, buying a burner or hard drive is hardly an expensive proposition.
I think the mini has potential if Apple approaches it on a less-is-more basis. Considering Apple has traditionally taken a less-is-more approach, it wouldn't surprise me if in fact that will happen.
I do understand your logic in suggesting the form factor sacrifice would be worthwhile if it meant going with less expensive hard drive technology but you're taking the short-term view of this thing. The cost of components is dropping all the time. Before long, the larger hard drive form factor will not have the cost advantage it currently does.
I'm talking about the next couple of years. People who don't follow the progress in Hd technology are in for a surprise!
The price of Hd's is dropping almost as fast as that of flash. They are all ready up to 250 GB per platter. That's going up to a terabyte per platter in a few years.
While Vinea, and others have made a good case for flash sizes to rise quickly in small devices such as phones and music players, so that we may see the amounts double in 6 to 9 months, it's different for a desktop unit.
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And I really don't think desk clutter is that big a deal. I'll be quite honest about this. There is only one reason I bought a mini. I'm not exactly raking in the bucks. While the mini form factor is awesomely cool and there are applications where a very compact form factor is a big advantage, the mini is an inexpensive Mac and that's plenty enough reason for me to have bought one.
Well, price is one area that I said that a flash drive wouldn't be competitive. Are you willing to add $200 to the price for a drive that's one third the size?
And, while you might not mind the clutter, many Mini users have bought it for that very reason.
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Considering that the mini I am running is roughly equivalent in performance to my previous Mac ? a dual 500 G4 tower that was state of the art when I bought it ? yet even with all the external items cost less than $1,000, I figure the thing is a big-time bargain. My G4 tower cost me more than $7,000 Cdn. by the time I had bought the machine, updated my graphics card, added an external DVD burner and added RAM.
I would never compare a totally outdated computer with even a fairly new one. The only fair comparison is to something recent. If your Mini is about the same as a dual 500 MHz G4, that's not saying much. You're comparing it to a machine about 6 years old.
I may as well compare something to my 950, bought in early 1992, which cost me $6,000, plus another $189 for the keyboard. I had to add my own CD-ROM for another $700. That's USA dollars. Fiqure out what that's worth in Canadian today. Then add the $3,000 monitor, $2,400 for 64 MB RAM, etc.
But, what does that all mean today? Nothing.
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If a mini capable of being a serviceable computer out of the box for the casual, low-demand user, is also able to be adapted to more demanding uses, to me that's a marvellous product. The 40 gigs of hard drive in my mini (first-generation) allows the machine to perform as required, with some externals added to the mix.
And I think that you are wrong about external hard drives being rarely purchased. They are so inexpensive and easy to hook up, that it's a no-brainer to go there. Rather than the mini itself housing the hard-drive technology for people who need a great deal more storage, I think it makes sense for the mini to be a hub, if you will, essentially controlling whatever items a user needs to add. The beauty of this is that you can customize your system according to your needs. If all I want to do is surf the net, I don't have to pay for tons of hard-drive capacity, etc. If, on the other hand, that extra capacity is needed, it's very easy and inexpensive to add.
I have nothing against the Mini. For what it is, it's fine. But, Hd's are rarely purchased for it. That doesn't mean that companies don't have some good products available. But, Apple has now sold over a million of them, perhaps more than a million and a half. I'd bet that no more than about 10 to 15% of those people have bought external Hd's.
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I think, really, where the mini does need an upgrade is in terms of its graphics performance. Especially, it needs to be able to handle video better and be high-def friendly. I'm not worried about CPU speed because Intel is steadily upgrading the capabilities of its products. Within the next couple of years I would think Apple couldn't put a slow processor in the mini if they wanted to. I'm also hopeful that soon enough the minimum standard for integrated graphics will result in good performance for all.
Everyone would like to see an upgrade in its graphics. If Apple does keep the Mini around, we will see Intel's more capable integrated solutions available.
There is a software upgrade from Intel that just became available to unlock the 3D capability that was not being used, in the current chipsets. I'm not sure if it will work in a Mac though.
Apple could put slower chips in the Mini. Intel has them available.
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And I could easily imagine, within a couple of years, a version of the mini half the size of the current model, that has no hard drive or optical drive. Right now, I'm running my OS off of a 7,200 RPM firewire drive and it works just fine. What I could imagine is Apple selling two versions of the mini, one stripped of even the hard drive and optical drive and another with flash memory and an optical drive. The stripped-down version, checking in at around $450 US would make a marvellous little product. Even after adding an external optical drive/burner and memory, you would have a decent little computer for not much more money than the current mini. In fact, in terms of cost in relation to performance, such a package would represent greater value than what Apple could offer in a integrated package such as the current mini. Besides, many of us already have the pieces to take advantage of such a device. From my perspective, by taking my existing hard drives and DVD burner, I could opt for the new stripped down mini as a great way to switch to the upcoming OS X update.
Maybe, in two years. But don't expect a lower price.
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If there are far fewer consumers out there than I think there are who are positioned as I am, well then, that's another matter. But I suspect there must already by a lot of external hard drives and burners sitting in people's homes because I find it hard to believe that manufacturers are building those products just to satisfy my needs. And at well under $200 each, buying a burner or hard drive is hardly an expensive proposition.
It's not an expensive proposition, as you say. External drives are available for $100, and External optical drives for that as well.
But, it's like getting people to back up. It's not that much trouble, but they won't do it.
Comments
Marvin had given a good picture of the Mini in an earlier thread. Unfortunately, the Mini is being discontinued.
In case the Mini wasn't replaced with something better, I planned to upgrade my G4 tower. However, I was convinced by you guys that even if I put a lot of $ into the G4, it would still not be as good as a Mini. Then I planned to look for a Mini at MacMall, etc.
I just received the July 2007 issue of MacWorld. Neither MacMall nor MacConnection had the Mini in their lineup. Ouch.
Has anyone been in an Apple Store lately? Are the stores still selling them?
If the Mini is not replaced and I can't find one at one of the MacOutlets, I think I'll slit my wrists. APPLE, MY BLOOD WILL BE ON YOUR HANDS. Will my choice be between an AIO that I don't want and a Mac Pro I can't afford?
Any words of encouragement? Anyone?
Maybe, the Mini is being discontinued. Until Apple announces that, it's just a rumor.
Huh? I see four models at MacConnection and two at MacMall, all in stock.
Not in the July 2007 issue of MacWorld I got. They may have been in last month's issue but not this one.
Not in the July 2007 issue of MacWorld I got. They may have been in last month's issue but not this one.
Oh, you're referring to the printed ads. Have no fear, the websites show plenty of stock at this point. Better have your finger on the button Monday afternoon though, in case the announcement comes that the mini is no more. They'll sell out fast, I expect.
But, people don't want smaller drives. They want bigger drives. And then, after that, they want bigger drives.
32 Gb drives will only be considered by people (except under unusual circumstances) when buying UMPC's, or other machines of that ilk, like, perhaps a 2 pound, or lighter, 11', or smaller screen model.
The biggest drive available in the mini right now from Apple is 80 gigs. My mini has a 40gig hard drive. But I have nearly 500 gigs of storage because I added external hard drives.
Rather than think of the mini as a complete package, I would like to see an inexpensive device that serves as the starting point, leaving it up to owners to upgrade as they see fit.
As long as the base mini was capable enough for someone to use it for basic stuff like surfing the Internet, e-mailing, etc., if the potential were there to use the machine for more demanding tasks through some inexpensive upgrades, I don't see a problem. A 40gig hard drive would certainly do the trick in that context. Considering the low cost of adding external hard drives, I hardly think it's a big deal that the mini has modest storage in its base form. A flash drive, in the not-too-distant future, will get the job done.
The biggest drive available in the mini right now from Apple is 80 gigs. My mini has a 40gig hard drive. But I have nearly 500 gigs of storage because I added external hard drives.
Rather than think of the mini as a complete package, I would like to see an inexpensive device that serves as the starting point, leaving it up to owners to upgrade as they see fit.
As long as the base mini was capable enough for someone to use it for basic stuff like surfing the Internet, e-mailing, etc., if the potential were there to use the machine for more demanding tasks through some inexpensive upgrades, I don't see a problem. A 40gig hard drive would certainly do the trick in that context. Considering the low cost of adding external hard drives, I hardly think it's a big deal that the mini has modest storage in its base form. A flash drive, in the not-too-distant future, will get the job done.
You've missed all of the discussions we've had about the fact that people rarely add to their system as bought from the factory.
If you look at all of the people who buy a Mini, (or iMac), you will find that few have purchased external drives.
That's why so many here, and elsewhere, have complained that Apple doesn't offer the bigger drives for it.
Most people who buy a Mini, or iMac, don't want their desk, or audio/video systems messed up with external appliances.
With the Mini, Apple is selling a relatively low priced model. No one is going to pay another $100 for a drive one third the size of what they could get otherwise.
Don't get blinded by the idea of flash drives. While they will serve a purpose for portables, esp. the smallest ones, they serve much less of a purpose right now for a desktop.
Forgive my ignorance. What's a NAS?
This:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network-attached_storage
Except for speed and noise. A 32GB flash drive in a mini might nearly double the price of a mini at $350 but it would make it a better HTPC. A BTO option with the flash HDD wouldn't be a bad option. The last thing I want in a small enclosure HTPC is one or more 500GB or 750GB drives screaming away.
Most modern hard drives aren't that bad, and the Seagate & Samsung hard drives are very quiet. I've got a four drive Firmtek enclosure next to my HTPC and it's fine. So far, no one complains about it, and no one can even hear it when I mention it.
You've missed all of the discussions we've had about the fact that people rarely add to their system as bought from the factory.
If you look at all of the people who buy a Mini, (or iMac), you will find that few have purchased external drives.
That's why so many here, and elsewhere, have complained that Apple doesn't offer the bigger drives for it.
Most people who buy a Mini, or iMac, don't want their desk, or audio/video systems messed up with external appliances.
With the Mini, Apple is selling a relatively low priced model. No one is going to pay another $100 for a drive one third the size of what they could get otherwise.
Don't get blinded by the idea of flash drives. While they will serve a purpose for portables, esp. the smallest ones, they serve much less of a purpose right now for a desktop.
That makes zero sense. Even if Apple offered bigger drives, the cost would be higher than simply buying an external drive, as I have done. My USB2 320 gig drive cost all of $180. I've installed my entire music collection on it. If, for example, I want to add an additional 250 gigs to an iMac, here in Canada the cost through Apple is $240.
If cost is not relevent, frankly what are you doing buying a mini in the first place?
Personally I think it's not rational to expect Apple, at this time, to offer the degree of miniaturization only possible through the use of laptop components while at the same time providing the storage capacity, etc. of a typical desktop system. The mini is not a typical desktop machine and that means if you want typical desktop performance you need to make adjustments accordingly.
Seems to me that what you want is something like 500 gigs of storage, a superdrive and a computer the size of a postage stamp, for well under $1,000. Good luck with that in 2007.
And being as I can't afford spending the more than $2,000 Cdn. it takes to buy a tower, have far too much invested in Mac software to consider switching, love the Apple software in any case, and need to have plenty of storage, buying a mini and augmenting it with an external hard drive is clearly a no-brainer. Even with the peripherals I've added, my set-up still checks in at under $1,000 (not including my monitor which is nine years old but still looking good).
The way I see it, I could either buy the mini, not add to it, complaining that Apple didn't give me enough storage, meaning I couldn't do what I wanted to or I could buy the mini, add the needed storage, and do all the things I want to with the system right now.
If down the road, advances made it possible for me to have a mini form factor with full-size tower capabilities, excellent. But in the meantime I'm making the best of what's available. As an Apple shareholder, frankly I think that it's a good thing that Apple isn't operated as a non-profit organization.
Also, the mini with a hard drive in the 40-60 gig range, is certainly more than adequete for the needs of the casual computer user who basically just wants to do e-mail, surf the net and run a few other programs. If you want to do more sophisticated work and refuse to add peripherals, don't even put the mini on your shopping list. It's not what the basic machine is intended for. On the other hand, for someone like me who is on a budget and is willing to put a few externals on my desktop, the mini is a great to have around as a lower-cost Mac option.
You've missed all of the discussions we've had about the fact that people rarely add to their system as bought from the factory.
If you look at all of the people who buy a Mini, (or iMac), you will find that few have purchased external drives.
That's why so many here, and elsewhere, have complained that Apple doesn't offer the bigger drives for it.
Most people who buy a Mini, or iMac, don't want their desk, or audio/video systems messed up with external appliances.
With the Mini, Apple is selling a relatively low priced model. No one is going to pay another $100 for a drive one third the size of what they could get otherwise.
Don't get blinded by the idea of flash drives. While they will serve a purpose for portables, esp. the smallest ones, they serve much less of a purpose right now for a desktop.
That makes zero sense. Even if Apple offered bigger drives, the cost would be higher than simply buying an external drive, as I have done. My USB2 320 gig drive cost all of $180. I've installed my entire music collection on it. If, for example, I want to add an additional 250 gigs to an iMac, here in Canada the cost through Apple is $240.
If cost is not relevent, frankly what are you doing buying a mini in the first place?
Personally I think it's not rational to expect Apple, at this time, to offer the degree of miniaturization only possible through the use of laptop components while at the same time providing the storage capacity, etc. of a typical desktop system. The mini is not a typical desktop machine and that means if you want typical desktop performance you need to make adjustments accordingly.
Seems to me that what you want is something like 500 gigs of storage, a superdrive and a computer the size of a postage stamp, for well under $1,000. Good luck with that in 2007.
And being as I can't afford spending the more than $2,000 Cdn. it takes to buy a tower, have far too much invested in Mac software to consider switching, love the Apple software in any case, and need to have plenty of storage, buying a mini and augmenting it with an external hard drive is clearly a no-brainer. Even with the peripherals I've added, my set-up still checks in at under $1,000 (not including my monitor which is nine years old but still looking good).
The way I see it, I could either buy the mini, not add to it, complaining that Apple didn't give me enough storage, meaning I couldn't do what I wanted to or I could buy the mini, add the needed storage, and do all the things I want to with the system right now.
If down the road, advances made it possible for me to have a mini form factor with full-size tower capabilities, excellent. But in the meantime I'm making the best of what's available. As an Apple shareholder, frankly I think that it's a good thing that Apple isn't operated as a non-profit organization.
Also, the mini with a hard drive in the 60-80 gig range, is certainly more than adequete for the needs of the casual computer user who basically just wants to do e-mail, surf the net and run a few other programs. If you want to do more sophisticated work and refuse to add peripherals, don't even put the mini on your shopping list. It's not what the basic machine is intended for. On the other hand, for someone like me who is on a budget and is willing to put a few externals on my desktop, the mini is great to have around as a lower-cost Mac option.
So don't. Park a NAS somewhere and get to it wireless.
Right. People who buy Mini's are going to buy an NAS and hook that up instead.
Except for speed and noise. A 32GB flash drive in a mini might nearly double the price of a mini at $350 but it would make it a better HTPC. A BTO option with the flash HDD wouldn't be a bad option. The last thing I want in a small enclosure HTPC is one or more 500GB or 750GB drives screaming away.
I don't know. Mini's are bought because they are small, but mostly because they are fairly cheap. Most of the writing here about Mini Hd's are about the fact that Apple should have made the model a bit larger to accommodate the much bigger capacity, and cheaper, 3.5" drives. I don't think that going SS is a solution at this time.
If I can park 2-3TB in a 4 bay NAS somewhere I don't care about noise that's more useful since its available to every PC in the house.
Vinea
I have no problem with that, but it isn't a solution for the Mini user.
That makes zero sense. Even if Apple offered bigger drives, the cost would be higher than simply buying an external drive, as I have done. My USB2 320 gig drive cost all of $180. I've installed my entire music collection on it. If, for example, I want to add an additional 250 gigs to an iMac, here in Canada the cost through Apple is $240.
If cost is not relevent, frankly what are you doing buying a mini in the first place?
Personally I think it's not rational to expect Apple, at this time, to offer the degree of miniaturization only possible through the use of laptop components while at the same time providing the storage capacity, etc. of a typical desktop system. The mini is not a typical desktop machine and that means if you want typical desktop performance you need to make adjustments accordingly.
Seems to me that what you want is something like 500 gigs of storage, a superdrive and a computer the size of a postage stamp, for well under $1,000. Good luck with that in 2007.
And being as I can't afford spending the more than $2,000 Cdn. it takes to buy a tower, have far too much invested in Mac software to consider switching, love the Apple software in any case, and need to have plenty of storage, buying a mini and augmenting it with an external hard drive is clearly a no-brainer. Even with the peripherals I've added, my set-up still checks in at under $1,000 (not including my monitor which is nine years old but still looking good).
The way I see it, I could either buy the mini, not add to it, complaining that Apple didn't give me enough storage, meaning I couldn't do what I wanted to or I could buy the mini, add the needed storage, and do all the things I want to with the system right now.
If down the road, advances made it possible for me to have a mini form factor with full-size tower capabilities, excellent. But in the meantime I'm making the best of what's available. As an Apple shareholder, frankly I think that it's a good thing that Apple isn't operated as a non-profit organization.
Also, the mini with a hard drive in the 40-60 gig range, is certainly more than adequete for the needs of the casual computer user who basically just wants to do e-mail, surf the net and run a few other programs. If you want to do more sophisticated work and refuse to add peripherals, don't even put the mini on your shopping list. It's not what the basic machine is intended for. On the other hand, for someone like me who is on a budget and is willing to put a few externals on my desktop, the mini is a great to have around as a lower-cost Mac option.
See? You did miss the discussions. Read my reply to Vinea, which, for some reason, in my browser window, has appeared above his earlier post.
Most people who buy a Mini, or iMac, don't want their desk, or audio/video systems messed up with external appliances.
So don't. Park a NAS somewhere and get to it wireless.
With the Mini, Apple is selling a relatively low priced model. No one is going to pay another $100 for a drive one third the size of what they could get otherwise.
Don't get blinded by the idea of flash drives. While they will serve a purpose for portables, esp. the smallest ones, they serve much less of a purpose right now for a desktop.
Except for speed and noise. A 32GB flash drive in a mini might nearly double the price of a mini at $350 but it would make it a better HTPC. A BTO option with the flash HDD wouldn't be a bad option. The last thing I want in a small enclosure HTPC is one or more 500GB or 750GB drives screaming away.
If I can park 2-3TB in a 4 bay NAS somewhere I don't care about noise that's more useful since its available to every PC in the house.
Vinea
I think you're all nuts.
iMac owners buy external drives. I've two. We don't all live in 70's glossy white loft apartments where even our shoes have to match our computers. Saying that, I quite like the design of Lacie's D2 drives so that's what I've got. I can't actually see it though, it's behind the iMac and the piles of scribbles and bits of paper and manuals on my desk - yes I'm a programmer with an iMac and quite happy with that. Mac Pro? What for?
With the Mini, have you actually seen how cool the Mini looks stacked on top of one of the many drives and hubs built especially for it such as those from Lacie and Iomega? It looks great. Almost like the mid-tower the whingers whinge about except it's 15cm square not some honking great big slab-o-beige.
Really, I think you lot should stop pigeonholing the little mac that could as it's more than capable for most of the things in this thread that it allegedly can't do. For me it does one thing the other macs can't do and that's act as a quiet, cheap, compact server - and I don't mean just a file server.
I'm with you lad... the 3rd party stuff for the Mini solves almost all of its "problems." Indeed there are many things that actually make it useful for all of us with peripherals from previous generation macs or pcs or people, like me, who always buy the biggest monitor I can afford-- now 23" Cinema Display in preference to a super-fast internal drive on a machine used mainly for word-processing (albeit in English & Japanese(.
iMac owners buy external drives. I've two. We don't all live in 70's glossy white loft apartments where even our shoes have to match our computers. Saying that, I quite like the design of Lacie's D2 drives so that's what I've got. I can't actually see it though, it's behind the iMac and the piles of scribbles and bits of paper and manuals on my desk - yes I'm a programmer with an iMac and quite happy with that. Mac Pro? What for?
With the Mini, have you actually seen how cool the Mini looks stacked on top of one of the many drives and hubs built especially for it such as those from Lacie and Iomega? It looks great. Almost like the mid-tower the whingers whinge about except it's 15cm square not some honking great big slab-o-beige.
Really, I think you lot should stop pigeonholing the little mac that could as it's more than capable for most of the things in this thread that it allegedly can't do. For me it does one thing the other macs can't do and that's act as a quiet, cheap, compact server - and I don't mean just a file server.
My external DVD burner is faster than the SuperDrive would have been (CDRW installed in mini).
My next monitor may be LED--an option NOT available at the time of purchase.
For the price, the macmini does so many different tasks well enough.
I never imagined I would enjoy TWO computers on the same desktop!
Despite the talk here about how people do not modify their machines post purchase, all in one boxes will always have some components lagging behind. Seems like the computer world advances in some areas faster than others. Thus peripheral units are wise and economical extensions of the main mini brain.
Carmissimo may be slightly ahead of his time on the price of flash memory vs hard drives.
But the idea of a small quiet computer will live on.
Hey on the plus side of no new h/w announcements...no new h/w cancellations either. The mini lives on so far. If we could only get an update to Santa Rosa...
I'm hoping that when Penyrn comes out, and it's all over the place in the trade shows now (unlike Barcelona, ha!), that we will see an overall move to it by Apple, including the Mini. It would be perfect.
Less power in, more power out.
See? You did miss the discussions. Read my reply to Vinea, which, for some reason, in my browser window, has appeared above his earlier post.
I think the mini has potential if Apple approaches it on a less-is-more basis. Considering Apple has traditionally taken a less-is-more approach, it wouldn't surprise me if in fact that will happen.
I do understand your logic in suggesting the form factor sacrifice would be worthwhile if it meant going with less expensive hard drive technology but you're taking the short-term view of this thing. The cost of components is dropping all the time. Before long, the larger hard drive form factor will not have the cost advantage it currently does.
And I really don't think desk clutter is that big a deal. I'll be quite honest about this. There is only one reason I bought a mini. I'm not exactly raking in the bucks. While the mini form factor is awesomely cool and there are applications where a very compact form factor is a big advantage, the mini is an inexpensive Mac and that's plenty enough reason for me to have bought one.
Considering that the mini I am running is roughly equivalent in performance to my previous Mac ? a dual 500 G4 tower that was state of the art when I bought it ? yet even with all the external items cost less than $1,000, I figure the thing is a big-time bargain. My G4 tower cost me more than $7,000 Cdn. by the time I had bought the machine, updated my graphics card, added an external DVD burner and added RAM.
If a mini capable of being a serviceable computer out of the box for the casual, low-demand user, is also able to be adapted to more demanding uses, to me that's a marvellous product. The 40 gigs of hard drive in my mini (first-generation) allows the machine to perform as required, with some externals added to the mix.
And I think that you are wrong about external hard drives being rarely purchased. They are so inexpensive and easy to hook up, that it's a no-brainer to go there. Rather than the mini itself housing the hard-drive technology for people who need a great deal more storage, I think it makes sense for the mini to be a hub, if you will, essentially controlling whatever items a user needs to add. The beauty of this is that you can customize your system according to your needs. If all I want to do is surf the net, I don't have to pay for tons of hard-drive capacity, etc. If, on the other hand, that extra capacity is needed, it's very easy and inexpensive to add.
I think, really, where the mini does need an upgrade is in terms of its graphics performance. Especially, it needs to be able to handle video better and be high-def friendly. I'm not worried about CPU speed because Intel is steadily upgrading the capabilities of its products. Within the next couple of years I would think Apple couldn't put a slow processor in the mini if they wanted to. I'm also hopeful that soon enough the minimum standard for integrated graphics will result in good performance for all.
And I could easily imagine, within a couple of years, a version of the mini half the size of the current model, that has no hard drive or optical drive. Right now, I'm running my OS off of a 7,200 RPM firewire drive and it works just fine. What I could imagine is Apple selling two versions of the mini, one stripped of even the hard drive and optical drive and another with flash memory and an optical drive. The stripped-down version, checking in at around $450 US would make a marvellous little product. Even after adding an external optical drive/burner and memory, you would have a decent little computer for not much more money than the current mini. In fact, in terms of cost in relation to performance, such a package would represent greater value than what Apple could offer in a integrated package such as the current mini. Besides, many of us already have the pieces to take advantage of such a device. From my perspective, by taking my existing hard drives and DVD burner, I could opt for the new stripped down mini as a great way to switch to the upcoming OS X update.
If there are far fewer consumers out there than I think there are who are positioned as I am, well then, that's another matter. But I suspect there must already by a lot of external hard drives and burners sitting in people's homes because I find it hard to believe that manufacturers are building those products just to satisfy my needs. And at well under $200 each, buying a burner or hard drive is hardly an expensive proposition.
I think the mini has potential if Apple approaches it on a less-is-more basis. Considering Apple has traditionally taken a less-is-more approach, it wouldn't surprise me if in fact that will happen.
I do understand your logic in suggesting the form factor sacrifice would be worthwhile if it meant going with less expensive hard drive technology but you're taking the short-term view of this thing. The cost of components is dropping all the time. Before long, the larger hard drive form factor will not have the cost advantage it currently does.
I'm talking about the next couple of years. People who don't follow the progress in Hd technology are in for a surprise!
The price of Hd's is dropping almost as fast as that of flash. They are all ready up to 250 GB per platter. That's going up to a terabyte per platter in a few years.
While Vinea, and others have made a good case for flash sizes to rise quickly in small devices such as phones and music players, so that we may see the amounts double in 6 to 9 months, it's different for a desktop unit.
And I really don't think desk clutter is that big a deal. I'll be quite honest about this. There is only one reason I bought a mini. I'm not exactly raking in the bucks. While the mini form factor is awesomely cool and there are applications where a very compact form factor is a big advantage, the mini is an inexpensive Mac and that's plenty enough reason for me to have bought one.
Well, price is one area that I said that a flash drive wouldn't be competitive. Are you willing to add $200 to the price for a drive that's one third the size?
And, while you might not mind the clutter, many Mini users have bought it for that very reason.
Considering that the mini I am running is roughly equivalent in performance to my previous Mac ? a dual 500 G4 tower that was state of the art when I bought it ? yet even with all the external items cost less than $1,000, I figure the thing is a big-time bargain. My G4 tower cost me more than $7,000 Cdn. by the time I had bought the machine, updated my graphics card, added an external DVD burner and added RAM.
I would never compare a totally outdated computer with even a fairly new one. The only fair comparison is to something recent. If your Mini is about the same as a dual 500 MHz G4, that's not saying much. You're comparing it to a machine about 6 years old.
I may as well compare something to my 950, bought in early 1992, which cost me $6,000, plus another $189 for the keyboard. I had to add my own CD-ROM for another $700. That's USA dollars. Fiqure out what that's worth in Canadian today. Then add the $3,000 monitor, $2,400 for 64 MB RAM, etc.
But, what does that all mean today? Nothing.
If a mini capable of being a serviceable computer out of the box for the casual, low-demand user, is also able to be adapted to more demanding uses, to me that's a marvellous product. The 40 gigs of hard drive in my mini (first-generation) allows the machine to perform as required, with some externals added to the mix.
And I think that you are wrong about external hard drives being rarely purchased. They are so inexpensive and easy to hook up, that it's a no-brainer to go there. Rather than the mini itself housing the hard-drive technology for people who need a great deal more storage, I think it makes sense for the mini to be a hub, if you will, essentially controlling whatever items a user needs to add. The beauty of this is that you can customize your system according to your needs. If all I want to do is surf the net, I don't have to pay for tons of hard-drive capacity, etc. If, on the other hand, that extra capacity is needed, it's very easy and inexpensive to add.
I have nothing against the Mini. For what it is, it's fine. But, Hd's are rarely purchased for it. That doesn't mean that companies don't have some good products available. But, Apple has now sold over a million of them, perhaps more than a million and a half. I'd bet that no more than about 10 to 15% of those people have bought external Hd's.
I think, really, where the mini does need an upgrade is in terms of its graphics performance. Especially, it needs to be able to handle video better and be high-def friendly. I'm not worried about CPU speed because Intel is steadily upgrading the capabilities of its products. Within the next couple of years I would think Apple couldn't put a slow processor in the mini if they wanted to. I'm also hopeful that soon enough the minimum standard for integrated graphics will result in good performance for all.
Everyone would like to see an upgrade in its graphics. If Apple does keep the Mini around, we will see Intel's more capable integrated solutions available.
There is a software upgrade from Intel that just became available to unlock the 3D capability that was not being used, in the current chipsets. I'm not sure if it will work in a Mac though.
Apple could put slower chips in the Mini. Intel has them available.
And I could easily imagine, within a couple of years, a version of the mini half the size of the current model, that has no hard drive or optical drive. Right now, I'm running my OS off of a 7,200 RPM firewire drive and it works just fine. What I could imagine is Apple selling two versions of the mini, one stripped of even the hard drive and optical drive and another with flash memory and an optical drive. The stripped-down version, checking in at around $450 US would make a marvellous little product. Even after adding an external optical drive/burner and memory, you would have a decent little computer for not much more money than the current mini. In fact, in terms of cost in relation to performance, such a package would represent greater value than what Apple could offer in a integrated package such as the current mini. Besides, many of us already have the pieces to take advantage of such a device. From my perspective, by taking my existing hard drives and DVD burner, I could opt for the new stripped down mini as a great way to switch to the upcoming OS X update.
Maybe, in two years. But don't expect a lower price.
If there are far fewer consumers out there than I think there are who are positioned as I am, well then, that's another matter. But I suspect there must already by a lot of external hard drives and burners sitting in people's homes because I find it hard to believe that manufacturers are building those products just to satisfy my needs. And at well under $200 each, buying a burner or hard drive is hardly an expensive proposition.
It's not an expensive proposition, as you say. External drives are available for $100, and External optical drives for that as well.
But, it's like getting people to back up. It's not that much trouble, but they won't do it.