Apple and AT&T to expand iPhone distribution after initial launch

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  • Reply 21 of 64
    addaboxaddabox Posts: 12,664member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solsun View Post


    $60 seems like extremely optimistic thinking... I'm guessing an unlimited voice and data plan for $99.



    That seems a little pessimistic to me-- AT&T currently charges $60 for 900 peak minutes talk and $50 for the "personal" PDA/Blackberry unlimited data, so that would be a $10 discount on a bundle for a phone they desperately want to be a huge success.



    How about we split the difference and call it $80 for some healthy number of talk minutes and unlimited data? I don't think anybody does unlimited talk, do they?



    With all the various taxes and fees I'm paying $70 for 900 talk minutes at Verizon right now, with tax and fees $80 would be closer to $90-- I would gladly pay the additional $20/month for data on an iPhone, but close to another $50 (if the AT&T plan were $100 plus tax and fees) I'd really have to stop and think.
  • Reply 22 of 64
    addaboxaddabox Posts: 12,664member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ajhill View Post


    Okay here's my price range, Voice-Unlimited night/weekend 1000 minute voice, unlimited data for....



    $69/month.



    Why that price? Simply to come in lower than any other smart phone, and remove any worry about plan pricing.



    Why am I so sure it will come in on the lower side of these plans??? Simple because Verizon turned down Apple's "demands" and that's a price that would definitely be a demand, especially when Apple get $3-4 back per month.



    That's it $69/month.



    Place your bets.



    So I started with $60, was counter with $100, counter-proposed $80 and you say $70. Hmmmm...



    $70 would be great. I'm sticking with my revised $80.
  • Reply 23 of 64
    kavikkavik Posts: 37member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solsun View Post


    $60 seems like extremely optimistic thinking... I'm guessing an unlimited voice and data plan for $99.



    That sounds about right to me having looked at Cingular prices over the years. C'mon folks...the iPhone is a premium product and Apple thinks that customers will pay for the "experience." They don't need or want an "attractive" price plan to attract customers



    My hunch is that they are keeping the wraps on the plan prices (which I think will be quite high) so that it does not become *the* story and take away from the iPhone hype before June 29.
  • Reply 24 of 64
    addaboxaddabox Posts: 12,664member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Kavik View Post


    That sounds about right to me having looked at Cingular prices over the years. C'mon folks...the iPhone is a premium product and Apple thinks that customers will pay for the "experience." They don't need or want an "attractive" price plan to attract customers



    My hunch is that they are keeping the wraps on the plan prices (which I think will be quite high) so that it does not become *the* story and take away from the iPhone hype before June 29.



    I understand your thinking, but consider this: Apple wants this to be a consumer phone. They want people who don't currently use "smart phones" (because they're too hard to use) to consider the iPhone. The smart phone for the rest of us, right?



    And really, although the iPhone is a lot compared to what people are used to paying for phones, it's not wildly out of line with what people are already paying for iPods, considering everything else it can do, so I'm not entirely sure it will be considered "just" a luxury phone.



    But these are people who don't currently pay for data plans, so it would be really smart to keep the sticker shock on that count to a minimum. $20, $30 bucks over what you're used to paying, maybe you figure what the hell. $50, $60 over...... maybe you take a pass.
  • Reply 25 of 64
    kavikkavik Posts: 37member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by addabox View Post


    I understand your thinking, but consider this: Apple wants this to be a consumer phone. They want people who don't currently use "smart phones" (because they're too hard to use) to consider the iPhone. The smart phone for the rest of us, right?



    And really, although the iPhone is a lot compared to what people are used to paying for phones, it's not wildly out of line with what people are already paying for iPods, considering everything else it can do, so I'm not entirely sure it will be considered "just" a luxury phone.



    I think they want it to eventually be *the* consumer phone, similar to their success with the iPod. But that goal is years down the road. How much did the first few iPods cost? $499 rings a bell. The iPhone is not just a fancy iPod on steroids, but also your cell phone, organizer/PDA, internet communicator, browser and mobile map all in one, running friggin' full OSX!



    In addition, most American cell phone customers (unlike Europe) are looking for a free (or incredibly cheap) phone. If you can afford a $499/$599 iPhone, I'm sure the thinking is that you can afford a monthly plan of $99, $109, $129 ???



    The one million expected new customers to AT&T in the first year as a result of the iPhone is just a drop in the bucket of their existing customer base. Why not milk these folks while you can?
  • Reply 26 of 64
    addaboxaddabox Posts: 12,664member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Kavik View Post


    I think they want it to eventually be *the* consumer phone, similar to their success with the iPod. But that goal is years down the road. How much did the first few iPods cost? $499 rings a bell. The iPhone is not just a fancy iPod on steroids, but also your cell phone, organizer/PDA, internet communicator, browser and mobile map all in one, running friggin' full OSX!



    In addition, most American cell phone customers (unlike Europe) are looking for a free (or incredibly cheap) phone. If you can afford a $499/$599 iPhone, I'm sure the thinking is that you can afford a monthly plan of $99, $109, $129 ???



    The one million expected new customers to AT&T in the first year as a result of the iPhone is just a drop in the bucket of their existing customer base. Why not milk these folks while you can?



    You may be right, but I'm thinking that Apple is shooting for a different demographic than the sort of people willing to drop over a hundred bucks a month on a cell plan, and that the high relative cost of the iPhone doesn't necessarily mitigate against that since it's such a different animal than the cheap to free stuff people are used to.



    As you say, "it's also your cell phone, organizer/PDA, internet communicator, browser and mobile map all in one, running friggin' full OSX", so even cost conscious consumers might be willing to pay more for such a versatile item, even if they aren't the sort to shell out the big bucks for a data plan. At the very least you could rationalize that a few hundred dollars of the phone's purchase price amount to a new, extra cool Nano.



    You know, in the way that just because someone springs for an iMac over a no name PC, it doesn't follow that they would be willing to pay double what they were used to for internet access.
  • Reply 27 of 64
    ci0002ci0002 Posts: 23member
    As a devout Apple user, shareholder and eager awaiter for the iPhone, I am a little worried.



    When the Treo was announced, and at each upgrade of it, it was pre-announced and could be pre-ordered on the Palm web site. The various plans were posted and the choices could be made. The phones were then shipped when available with the correct SIM in place.



    Apple has not followed this model. What model are they following. Will on-line Apple Store Sales take place? If so, beginning when, for deliver when?



    Would they be dumb enough to allow online orders only after the phone is on sale in the stores? Then would they be dumb enough to tell on line purchasers they must go into a store to get the required SIM? Why not wait 2 weeks and go to the store when the rush is over.



    This would kill the stock and I might even pass up the opportunity to get my iPhone (at least early).
  • Reply 28 of 64
    kavikkavik Posts: 37member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by addabox View Post


    You may be right, but I'm thinking that Apple is shooting for a different demographic than the sort of people willing to drop over a hundred bucks a month on a cell plan, and that the high relative cost of the iPhone doesn't necessarily mitigate against that since it's such a different animal than the cheap to free stuff people are used to.



    I actually hope that you're right! At $60 I would probably make the jump from T-Mobile as I *really* want the iPhone. But right now I'm paying TMo $69 ($39 voice/$30 data) for 1000 minutes with free nights/wknds, and unlimited EGDE speed data that I tether to my Macbook. They also give you access to any of their Wifi hotspots. With taxes, I'm paying about $85/month. I couldn't justify paying much more than that, or accept a higher cost combined with fewer voice minutes or capabilities (tethering, etc).



    As I said, I'm not as optimistic (Cingular/AT&T has never beat TMo on price) and I personally think it will actually be much higher as I stated above.
  • Reply 29 of 64
    avoravor Posts: 44member
    Here is why I believe the pricing plan will be a "bargain" when compared to other services:



    1. Technology gets cheaper. You used to have to pay $40 a month for a pager; over $100 for 4-5 hours of cellular minutes. It really only got cheaper once pagers and phones got out of the exclusive business use and into the hands of consumers. Is this sounding a little familiar to what is happening now?



    The Internet? Before AOL (and that one that came before it I cannot remember) it used to be $60 a month for 2 hours on a 4400 baud modem (aka slow). I remember my parents allowing me five minutes of time a month on the Nintendo website.



    2. No announcement on iPods with the new features of the iPhone. You know it is there; waiting to be unveiled in September or October in time for the holiday season. All the work is already done. All they have to do is rip out the phone part and you have a new model iPod.



    Why does this mean the plans may be lower? A new iPod would pull away from sales of the iPhone - and what demographic do the iPods generally appeal to? Its not Grandma; its your part-time working high school students and your poor college students.



    The lack of a new iPod announcement means that they are obviously one of Apple's primary targets. The plan needs to be affordable enough to them; it will keep it's luxuriousness because there will still be a price premium when compared to voice plans.



    3. Everyone else turned them down. Yes, Apple was wanting more control over its phone than was typically seen in the industry; but that's "free" customer service that the providers wouldn't have to handle. Yes, I know Apple is going to take a cut of profits; but the hiring/training/expanding for a specific phone may be looked on as a large hassle or mess. I take this as "We have many stores across the nation; we'll even help with the customers for a small amount of profits." I can go to Best Buy and buy phones for Cingular so I don't believe it was an issue of outsourcing phone sales.



    The deal's main issue was more likely one of pricing. Everyone likes money - and asking (or maybe more of telling from Apple's part) may not have been taken well.



    4. Cingular's been "changing" to AT&T. What better way can they come back in with other than "We're back; we have the iPhone and cheap rates!"
  • Reply 30 of 64
    abster2coreabster2core Posts: 2,501member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ajhill View Post


    Okay here's my price range, Voice-Unlimited night/weekend 1000 minute voice, unlimited data for....



    $69/month.



    Why that price? Simply to come in lower than any other smart phone, and remove any worry about plan pricing.



    Why am I so sure it will come in on the lower side of these plans??? Simple because Verizon turned down Apple's "demands" and that's a price that would definitely be a demand, especially when Apple get $3-4 back per month.



    That's it $69/month.



    Place your bets.



    I think you are close.



    Go start iPhone: http://www.wireless.att.com/cell-pho...ls/iPhone.jsp?



    Plans will range somewhere in and about here: http://www.wireless.att.com/cell-pho...questid=116217
  • Reply 31 of 64
    kavikkavik Posts: 37member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Abster2core View Post


    I think you are close.



    Go start iPhone: http://www.wireless.att.com/cell-pho...ls/iPhone.jsp?



    Plans will range somewhere in and about here: http://www.wireless.att.com/cell-pho...questid=116217



    You just proved my point...a 900-minute AT&T voice plan is $59.99 (100 minutes less than what I get with T-Mobile for $39.99). Then the unlimited data connect plan (which provides unlimited data & would allow me to use my phone as a modem for my Macbook) is $79.99...$99.99 for the equivalent to T-Mobile w/Wifi which costs me $30 a month.



    That comes to a whopping $159 to get less than what I pay $69 for. Now granted, AT&T could come up with a iPhone combo plan for voice/data, but I don't see this coming in at less than $99/month. And Apple will never let this thing be sold sans data plan. Not only that, but they know that people will pay to have *the* gadget and status symbol of 2007/2008. Remember that these companies exist to *make money*, not to provide the best technology solutions to us at a reasonable price.
  • Reply 32 of 64
    mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Avor View Post


    The Internet? Before AOL (and that one that came before it I cannot remember) it used to be $60 a month for 2 hours on a 4400 baud modem (aka slow).



    You may be referring to Compuserve. I remember getting bills for $400-500 a month back then.



    I was cleaning out the garage yesterday and I came across a user manual for one of my first cell phones including the receipt. NEC car phone $1195 plus $200 for installation. I don't recall the service plan but it was expensive and that was in 1984 dollars. My point is that you can't make apples to oranges comparisons between what was and what will be because everything is different. The price will be whatever they think the market will bear.



    I will get an iPhone regardless of the cost. My company pays for whatever technology I say I need. Of course our business image is that of staying on the cutting edge, so I need one just to keep up appearances.
  • Reply 33 of 64
    avoravor Posts: 44member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mstone View Post


    You may be referring to Compuserve.



    Yes! That was it. I kept thinking CompUSA though I knew it wasn't right. I remember the first time I used the internet on it - my parents sent me to the nintendo site but it never came up and I was putting stuff like "Mario" into the address bar ... they came back 5 minutes later and I hadn't gotten anywhere.



    I accomplished nothing but I had a lot of fun doing it.
  • Reply 34 of 64
    kavikkavik Posts: 37member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mstone View Post


    I will get an iPhone regardless of the cost. My company pays for whatever technology I say I need. Of course our business image is that of staying on the cutting edge, so I need one just to keep up appearances.



    This is exactly the customer I think Apple/AT&T are targeting initially. Once they have sold several million and tapped out the early adopters, gadget freaks, and Mac fans, the price and data plans will come down (similar to the iPod) as they make a shift to target the general consumer. I don't, however, expect this within the first year or so.
  • Reply 35 of 64
    kukitokukito Posts: 113member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by addabox View Post


    Are those the current AT&T rates? How much talk time for that, and is the data unlimited? My thinking is that if there is any way Apple could have negotiated a combo deal for something like $60/month, that would be the sweet spot.



    These are the Smartphone data plans that I think would apply to the iPhone: link



    That would be on top of my (up for renewal) phone rate. Not too bad for the limited plan since I'd mostly be using Wi-Fi for data. If only they had rollover megabytes I'd be all set.
  • Reply 36 of 64
    anantksundaramanantksundaram Posts: 20,337member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Abster2core View Post


    I think you are close.



    Go start iPhone: http://www.wireless.att.com/cell-pho...ls/iPhone.jsp?



    Plans will range somewhere in and about here: http://www.wireless.att.com/cell-pho...questid=116217



    What the heck is "Canadian data"? "International data?" Is it data from, or data to? If the former, how the heck do we know what data (US or non-US) are coming thru which server where?



  • Reply 37 of 64
    addaboxaddabox Posts: 12,664member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post


    What the heck is "Canadian data"? "International data?" Is it data from, or data to? If the former, how the heck do we know what data (US or non-US) are coming thru which server where?







    Canadian data generally has the .eh? file extension
  • Reply 38 of 64
    anantksundaramanantksundaram Posts: 20,337member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by addabox View Post


    Canadian data generally has the .eh? file extension







    Sounds just aboot right!
  • Reply 39 of 64
    abgouldabgould Posts: 1member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by aplnub View Post


    I went by my local Cingular store, I can't believe I was in it with the coverage being so bad here compared to Verizon. Anyway, they told me that they thought the launch was at 9 am that morning until I told them about the 6 pm thing. They were shocked and dismayed because that meant a long night evidently. Then, she told me they had a prewait list and AT&T called and told them to shred it and stop it. She said come early because they have had person after person call and come in asking about getting on a waiting list.



    She did say they were told that they would be doing "New Activations" only for the initial launch but they expected that would change but did not know when.



    I shall be there early...



    Is this true about new activations only? I am a current AT&T subscriber and want to transfer my existing number to the iPhone. Do you think an existing AT&T sim card would work? I find it difficult to understand why Apple & AT&T would not allow existing customers to transfer their number, given the fact that they are paying full price for the phone and signing a two year contract.
  • Reply 40 of 64
    louzerlouzer Posts: 1,054member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Kavik View Post


    You just proved my point...a 900-minute AT&T voice plan is $59.99 (100 minutes less than what I get with T-Mobile for $39.99). Then the unlimited data connect plan (which provides unlimited data & would allow me to use my phone as a modem for my Macbook) is $79.99...$99.99 for the equivalent to T-Mobile w/Wifi which costs me $30 a month.



    That comes to a whopping $159 to get less than what I pay $69 for. Now granted, AT&T could come up with a iPhone combo plan for voice/data, but I don't see this coming in at less than $99/month. And Apple will never let this thing be sold sans data plan. Not only that, but they know that people will pay to have *the* gadget and status symbol of 2007/2008. Remember that these companies exist to *make money*, not to provide the best technology solutions to us at a reasonable price.



    Sorry, but you've got another problem. Apple has already said you cannot use the iPhone as a modem for a computer.



    Demand will be huge early (form the mac-heads who gots to have it), but will most likely wane quickly, especially when details of the device and plans become available (the lack of even basic information should worry most people about what they think it will do and cost and what reality will be - for example, how quickly can one type on this thing and are there apps to compose documents and the like (real apps, not on-line apps that aren't always available), can you turn off the predictive typing, how durable is it, how many speed dial/shortcut options does it have, or is it all click-find-click to do anything, how well does the mail app work, how much can be done on the phone vs. setting things up on a computer and then syncing over).



    Except for the "Apple/iPod/Cool/Fad" factor, there's very little about the iPhone that's revolutionary or different to warrant the money to be spent. (Of course, the desire of many over a product in which so few details are known could result in a lot of poor feeling towards apple if it doesn't live up to the hype - not Apple's hype, but user's hype and expectations).
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