Flash runtime?s performance is about 4-20x worse on Mac OS X than it is on Windows ? I bet Apple evaluated its options and decided it didn?t want to have its browser experience marred by Adobe?s lack of focus. You can also bet that with all the crazy user-space scaling tricks that iPhoneSafari does, Flash wouldn?t work.
Maybe MS will port SilverLight to iPhone so we can have at least some application environment for multimedia other than AJAX
Selling iTS directly to the device also breaks the relationship with the computer managing and storing the content. Distributing content to the device for viewing or listening.
What are you talkin about 80K, do you live in a 3rd world country. On my el'cheapo DSL connection I get 3M (2.75M) downloads. I'm 100% sure you're talking about dl'ing over the Edge service, but I'm not. It has Wifi built in, why not put it into good use. I have no idea what SJ said about not allowing iTunes downloads, but I'm sure it was a bullshit reason.
Where does your brain live?
Haven't you been reading all about what the iPhone can, and can't do?
Have you been sleeping throughout the entire six months of everyone else knowing that the iPhone only can use ATT's EDGE network, which until now, only worked up to 40Kb/s, and that is quickly being upgraded to run at 80kB/s, which will actually just be an effective 40Kb/s?
Haven't you seen all the articles just here on Ai about this?
Haven't you seen all of the arguing about how all of us think this sucks?
WiFi is a joke.
Haven't you been seeing all of the talk about the lack of 3G?
Despite that, flash is still the most important standard on the web for the purpose it has.
In one way it may not be missed since most phones cannot display flash. Many websites use flash in really annoying ways. So it may not be so bad.
This may push Adobe to improve Flash, especially if the iPhone is a big seller. YouTube switching to .H264 is a big coupe for the format. I can only see this improving things all around.
Go read the Tech Specs. Who needs 3G when there is Wifi. WTF you mean Wifi is a joke? Do you even know what Wifi is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross
Where does your brain live?
Haven't you been reading all about what the iPhone can, and can't do?
Have you been sleeping throughout the entire six months of everyone else knowing that the iPhone only can use ATT's EDGE network, which until now, only worked up to 40Kb/s, and that is quickly being upgraded to run at 80kB/s, which will actually just be an effective 40Kb/s?
Haven't you seen all the articles just here on Ai about this?
Haven't you seen all of the arguing about how all of us think this sucks?
WiFi is a joke.
Haven't you been seeing all of the talk about the lack of 3G?
Teno, we both live in NYC. I don't know your attempts to find WiFi networks, but I've done some.
When in Manhattan, one of the areas with the highest concentration of WiFi networks in the world, I have found that while walking those streets with a wiFi network detector, that except for a few areas, I can walk for 15 minutes without finding a WiFi signal.
Most of the time when I do, it requires a password to use.
Outside of Manhattan, the situation is far worse. Cruising the outer boroughs in a car, I have found almost no WiFi at all.
Most of the country is in much worse condition. So is the rest of the world.
When you are using a cell, you don't want to have to wander the streets until you can find a usable WiFi connection. You want to do what you want, NOW. That's the entire point to it.
I really don't want to have to find a Starbucks, or yecch, a MacDonalds to download a song. Do you?
In one way it may not be missed since most phones cannot display flash. Many websites use flash in really annoying ways. So it may not be so bad.
Flash is annoying, but so many legitimate sites use it for nifty UI stuff too, doing stuff I don't think can be done on any other common web technology. I don't think one can get a true picture of how many web sites use Flash unless one actually uses a flash blocker.
Selling iTS directly to the device also breaks the relationship with the computer managing and storing the content. Distributing content to the device for viewing or listening.
I think you're right, and buying music over your phone has largely been seen as yet another way for cell companies to gouge customers.
But: Remember that iTunes/iPods have a new feature that allows you to sync (purchased) music from your iPod to your computer. I think it's very possible that this could be a lead-in to allowing people to buy music via the iPhone.
Go read the Tech Specs. Who needs 3G when there is Wifi. WTF you mean Wifi is a joke? Do you even know what Wifi is.
Quote:
3G coverage is a joke.
Let's just say that WiFi coverage is spotty at best. With cellular data, at least you don't have to worry about your data source every few hundred feet. Open hot spots are insecure, and under almost all circumstanses, it's a pain to enter keys for the encrypted hot spots, assuming that you can get the keys.
3G certainly doesn't have that great of coverage right now, but where it is, it's more consistent, and it has far more potential than WiFi. Citywide WiFi meshes so far have been unsatisfactory and impractical that I've heard.
I think you're right, and buying music over your phone has largely been seen as yet another way for cell companies to gouge customers.
But: Remember that iTunes/iPods have a new feature that allows you to sync (purchased) music from your iPod to your computer. I think it's very possible that this could be a lead-in to allowing people to buy music via the iPhone.
Jobs doesn't agree. He believes that as you would have to sync what's on the phone to the computer anyway, you might as well download it from there in the first place.
He does have a point. But, I think he also understands, as I pointed out, that downloading a song over EDGE won't be a friendly experience.
Perhaps, next year, if 3G comes to the phone, that will change.
Let's just say that WiFi coverage is spotty at best. With cellular data, at least you don't have to worry about your data source every few hundred feet. Open hot spots are insecure, and under almost all circumstanses, it's a pain to enter keys for the encrypted hot spots, assuming that you can get the keys.
I'm agreeing with you about wifi coverage versus cellular coverage, but how about sitting in startbucks sipping coffee, your phone could use that time to dl song over wifi, or airport lounges waiting for your next flight, wouldn't it be nice to have fresh tunes for your next flight?
Go read the Tech Specs. Who needs 3G when there is Wifi. WTF you mean Wifi is a joke? Do you even know what Wifi is.
3G coverage is a joke.
If you have Wifi coverage, chances are you have a computer nearby. Why on earth would you use the tiny screen then? Wifi on a phone hence makes little sense to me. I realize it may make a lot of sense for some people, but if I have a multimedia device I don't want to hunt for a connection to use the multimedia.
3G coverage through AT&T is a joke. I actually have the service through AT&T's "broadband connect" and we have coverage pretty much around our offices and a little down the freeway. In many other places, even right along major freeways, it is impossible to connect reliably at all - even at slow speeds.
Blame Apple for being too cocky and not working something out with Verizon or Sprint, who both have EXCELLENT 3G coverage nationwide.
Video over EDGE is a joke though. H.264 quality per kilobit is not that much better than the new Flash video formats. Apple pushes H.264 because it is well integrated into OS X, to advance its Quicktime penetration, and so that it doesn't have to deal with Adobe as much, whose Flash performance on Mac is still lagging significantly behind Windows imo.
I'm agreeing with you about wifi coverage versus cellular coverage, but how about sitting in startbucks sipping coffee, your phone could use that time to dl song over wifi, or airport lounges waiting for your next flight, wouldn't it be nice to have fresh tunes for your next flight?
I think it's a nice idea, though the airport lounges I've been in have been paid networks, steeply priced at that.
When in Manhattan, one of the areas with the highest concentration of WiFi networks in the world, I have found that while walking those streets with a wiFi network detector, that except for a few areas, I can walk for 15 minutes without finding a WiFi signal.
Very true. There are multiple signals all over Manhattan the problem is finding an open unblocked signal. But you are right in that there will only be certain spots an open signal will be found. There is free WiFi in several city parks. Hopefully eventually the city get its municipal WiFi plan in action.
Quote:
I don't think one can get a true picture of how many web sites use Flash unless one actually uses a flash blocker.
I'm sure that's true. It seems Apple weighed its options and came to conclusion that the iPhone would be worse off with flash than without.
I'm agreeing with you about wifi coverage versus cellular coverage, but how about sitting in startbucks sipping coffee, your phone could use that time to dl song over wifi, or airport lounges waiting for your next flight, wouldn't it be nice to have fresh tunes for your next flight?
You mean, standing in a crowded Starbucks, shoulder to shoulder with people you don't know, who are constantly looking over YOUR shoulder at your screen?
Since the average Starbucks has no more than about 9 seats, with the biggest, and also the most crowded, having no more than about 18, your chance of getting a seat with that cup of coffee is slender, at best.
Jobs doesn't agree. He believes that as you would have to sync what's on the phone to the computer anyway, you might as well download it from there in the first place.
He does have a point. But, I think he also understands, as I pointed out, that downloading a song over EDGE won't be a friendly experience.
Perhaps, next year, if 3G comes to the phone, that will change.
Jobs has said a lot of things that we later found out he didn't really believe.
I just don't see why they would have enabled this new feature for iPods unless it was intended to allow for the possibility of downloading directly to a portable device. The idea of using it to transfer tracks from one computer to another doesn't make sense, because you can only transfer iTunes-purchased tracks.
Jobs has said a lot of things that we later found out he didn't really believe.
I just don't see why they would have enabled this new feature for iPods unless it was intended to allow for the possibility of downloading directly to a portable device. The idea of using it to transfer tracks from one computer to another doesn't make sense, because you can only transfer iTunes-purchased tracks.
I think he does believe it. That doesn't mean that his views won't change, as they did with mobile video.
But, as I said, it's the lack of a high speed network that is the biggest problem for phone downloads right now.
I would agree that Apple MIGHT be working on an interface for the phone that's more suited for the low rez than the current iTunes is, for when high speed does come to the phone. But, that's just a guess.
Comments
Flash runtime?s performance is about 4-20x worse on Mac OS X than it is on Windows ? I bet Apple evaluated its options and decided it didn?t want to have its browser experience marred by Adobe?s lack of focus. You can also bet that with all the crazy user-space scaling tricks that iPhoneSafari does, Flash wouldn?t work.
Maybe MS will port SilverLight to iPhone so we can have at least some application environment for multimedia other than AJAX
What are you talkin about 80K, do you live in a 3rd world country. On my el'cheapo DSL connection I get 3M (2.75M) downloads. I'm 100% sure you're talking about dl'ing over the Edge service, but I'm not. It has Wifi built in, why not put it into good use. I have no idea what SJ said about not allowing iTunes downloads, but I'm sure it was a bullshit reason.
Where does your brain live?
Haven't you been reading all about what the iPhone can, and can't do?
Have you been sleeping throughout the entire six months of everyone else knowing that the iPhone only can use ATT's EDGE network, which until now, only worked up to 40Kb/s, and that is quickly being upgraded to run at 80kB/s, which will actually just be an effective 40Kb/s?
Haven't you seen all the articles just here on Ai about this?
Haven't you seen all of the arguing about how all of us think this sucks?
WiFi is a joke.
Haven't you been seeing all of the talk about the lack of 3G?
No, I guess not.
Despite that, flash is still the most important standard on the web for the purpose it has.
In one way it may not be missed since most phones cannot display flash. Many websites use flash in really annoying ways. So it may not be so bad.
This may push Adobe to improve Flash, especially if the iPhone is a big seller. YouTube switching to .H264 is a big coupe for the format. I can only see this improving things all around.
WiFi is a joke.
In comparison to what?
Go read the Tech Specs. Who needs 3G when there is Wifi. WTF you mean Wifi is a joke? Do you even know what Wifi is.
Where does your brain live?
Haven't you been reading all about what the iPhone can, and can't do?
Have you been sleeping throughout the entire six months of everyone else knowing that the iPhone only can use ATT's EDGE network, which until now, only worked up to 40Kb/s, and that is quickly being upgraded to run at 80kB/s, which will actually just be an effective 40Kb/s?
Haven't you seen all the articles just here on Ai about this?
Haven't you seen all of the arguing about how all of us think this sucks?
WiFi is a joke.
Haven't you been seeing all of the talk about the lack of 3G?
No, I guess not.
3G coverage is a joke.
In comparison to what?
Teno, we both live in NYC. I don't know your attempts to find WiFi networks, but I've done some.
When in Manhattan, one of the areas with the highest concentration of WiFi networks in the world, I have found that while walking those streets with a wiFi network detector, that except for a few areas, I can walk for 15 minutes without finding a WiFi signal.
Most of the time when I do, it requires a password to use.
Outside of Manhattan, the situation is far worse. Cruising the outer boroughs in a car, I have found almost no WiFi at all.
Most of the country is in much worse condition. So is the rest of the world.
When you are using a cell, you don't want to have to wander the streets until you can find a usable WiFi connection. You want to do what you want, NOW. That's the entire point to it.
I really don't want to have to find a Starbucks, or yecch, a MacDonalds to download a song. Do you?
In one way it may not be missed since most phones cannot display flash. Many websites use flash in really annoying ways. So it may not be so bad.
Flash is annoying, but so many legitimate sites use it for nifty UI stuff too, doing stuff I don't think can be done on any other common web technology. I don't think one can get a true picture of how many web sites use Flash unless one actually uses a flash blocker.
http://www.apple.com/iphone/specs.html
Go read the Tech Specs. Who needs 3G when there is Wifi. WTF you mean Wifi is a joke? Do you even know what Wifi is.
3G coverage is a joke.
I have to say that your posts have had the highest percentage of inanity than any other poster here, and that's saying a lot.
Selling iTS directly to the device also breaks the relationship with the computer managing and storing the content. Distributing content to the device for viewing or listening.
I think you're right, and buying music over your phone has largely been seen as yet another way for cell companies to gouge customers.
But: Remember that iTunes/iPods have a new feature that allows you to sync (purchased) music from your iPod to your computer. I think it's very possible that this could be a lead-in to allowing people to buy music via the iPhone.
http://www.apple.com/iphone/specs.html
Go read the Tech Specs. Who needs 3G when there is Wifi. WTF you mean Wifi is a joke? Do you even know what Wifi is.
3G coverage is a joke.
Let's just say that WiFi coverage is spotty at best. With cellular data, at least you don't have to worry about your data source every few hundred feet. Open hot spots are insecure, and under almost all circumstanses, it's a pain to enter keys for the encrypted hot spots, assuming that you can get the keys.
3G certainly doesn't have that great of coverage right now, but where it is, it's more consistent, and it has far more potential than WiFi. Citywide WiFi meshes so far have been unsatisfactory and impractical that I've heard.
I think you're right, and buying music over your phone has largely been seen as yet another way for cell companies to gouge customers.
But: Remember that iTunes/iPods have a new feature that allows you to sync (purchased) music from your iPod to your computer. I think it's very possible that this could be a lead-in to allowing people to buy music via the iPhone.
Jobs doesn't agree. He believes that as you would have to sync what's on the phone to the computer anyway, you might as well download it from there in the first place.
He does have a point. But, I think he also understands, as I pointed out, that downloading a song over EDGE won't be a friendly experience.
Perhaps, next year, if 3G comes to the phone, that will change.
Let's just say that WiFi coverage is spotty at best. With cellular data, at least you don't have to worry about your data source every few hundred feet. Open hot spots are insecure, and under almost all circumstanses, it's a pain to enter keys for the encrypted hot spots, assuming that you can get the keys.
I'm agreeing with you about wifi coverage versus cellular coverage, but how about sitting in startbucks sipping coffee, your phone could use that time to dl song over wifi, or airport lounges waiting for your next flight, wouldn't it be nice to have fresh tunes for your next flight?
http://www.apple.com/iphone/specs.html
Go read the Tech Specs. Who needs 3G when there is Wifi. WTF you mean Wifi is a joke? Do you even know what Wifi is.
3G coverage is a joke.
If you have Wifi coverage, chances are you have a computer nearby. Why on earth would you use the tiny screen then? Wifi on a phone hence makes little sense to me. I realize it may make a lot of sense for some people, but if I have a multimedia device I don't want to hunt for a connection to use the multimedia.
3G coverage through AT&T is a joke. I actually have the service through AT&T's "broadband connect" and we have coverage pretty much around our offices and a little down the freeway. In many other places, even right along major freeways, it is impossible to connect reliably at all - even at slow speeds.
Blame Apple for being too cocky and not working something out with Verizon or Sprint, who both have EXCELLENT 3G coverage nationwide.
Video over EDGE is a joke though. H.264 quality per kilobit is not that much better than the new Flash video formats. Apple pushes H.264 because it is well integrated into OS X, to advance its Quicktime penetration, and so that it doesn't have to deal with Adobe as much, whose Flash performance on Mac is still lagging significantly behind Windows imo.
I'm agreeing with you about wifi coverage versus cellular coverage, but how about sitting in startbucks sipping coffee, your phone could use that time to dl song over wifi, or airport lounges waiting for your next flight, wouldn't it be nice to have fresh tunes for your next flight?
I think it's a nice idea, though the airport lounges I've been in have been paid networks, steeply priced at that.
When in Manhattan, one of the areas with the highest concentration of WiFi networks in the world, I have found that while walking those streets with a wiFi network detector, that except for a few areas, I can walk for 15 minutes without finding a WiFi signal.
Very true. There are multiple signals all over Manhattan the problem is finding an open unblocked signal. But you are right in that there will only be certain spots an open signal will be found. There is free WiFi in several city parks. Hopefully eventually the city get its municipal WiFi plan in action.
I don't think one can get a true picture of how many web sites use Flash unless one actually uses a flash blocker.
I'm sure that's true. It seems Apple weighed its options and came to conclusion that the iPhone would be worse off with flash than without.
I'm agreeing with you about wifi coverage versus cellular coverage, but how about sitting in startbucks sipping coffee, your phone could use that time to dl song over wifi, or airport lounges waiting for your next flight, wouldn't it be nice to have fresh tunes for your next flight?
You mean, standing in a crowded Starbucks, shoulder to shoulder with people you don't know, who are constantly looking over YOUR shoulder at your screen?
Since the average Starbucks has no more than about 9 seats, with the biggest, and also the most crowded, having no more than about 18, your chance of getting a seat with that cup of coffee is slender, at best.
Jobs doesn't agree. He believes that as you would have to sync what's on the phone to the computer anyway, you might as well download it from there in the first place.
He does have a point. But, I think he also understands, as I pointed out, that downloading a song over EDGE won't be a friendly experience.
Perhaps, next year, if 3G comes to the phone, that will change.
Jobs has said a lot of things that we later found out he didn't really believe.
I just don't see why they would have enabled this new feature for iPods unless it was intended to allow for the possibility of downloading directly to a portable device. The idea of using it to transfer tracks from one computer to another doesn't make sense, because you can only transfer iTunes-purchased tracks.
Jobs has said a lot of things that we later found out he didn't really believe.
I just don't see why they would have enabled this new feature for iPods unless it was intended to allow for the possibility of downloading directly to a portable device. The idea of using it to transfer tracks from one computer to another doesn't make sense, because you can only transfer iTunes-purchased tracks.
I think he does believe it. That doesn't mean that his views won't change, as they did with mobile video.
But, as I said, it's the lack of a high speed network that is the biggest problem for phone downloads right now.
I would agree that Apple MIGHT be working on an interface for the phone that's more suited for the low rez than the current iTunes is, for when high speed does come to the phone. But, that's just a guess.