so let me get this straight, there's no sim, the size is actually 80 gigs, and it DOES have gps?
ohh, and it comes preloaded with word and excel?
now i'm really gonna have to go wait in line to "try the thing out" and "see what it does". all i have to do now is grab a sharpie, make the worst looking sign i can, and drive into the city.
Can we dump all of this talk about SIM cards. Steve said the card can be removed. The sim card is at the top of the iPhone next to the headphone jack.
So repeat after me:
THE iPHONE HAS A SIM CARD THAT CAN BE REMOVED!, repeat,
THE iPHONE HAS A SIM CARD THAT CAN BE REMOVED!, repeat,
THE iPHONE HAS A SIM CARD THAT CAN BE REMOVED!, repeat,
THE iPHONE HAS A SIM CARD THAT CAN BE REMOVED!, repeat,
THE iPHONE HAS A SIM CARD THAT CAN BE REMOVED!, repeat,
THE iPHONE HAS A SIM CARD THAT CAN BE REMOVED!, repeat,
THE iPHONE HAS A SIM CARD THAT CAN BE REMOVED!, repeat,
THE iPHONE HAS A SIM CARD THAT CAN BE REMOVED!, repeat,
THE iPHONE HAS A SIM CARD THAT CAN BE REMOVED!, repeat,
THE iPHONE HAS A SIM CARD THAT CAN BE REMOVED!, repeat,
THE iPHONE HAS A SIM CARD THAT CAN BE REMOVED!, repeat.
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross
Not exactly. GSM refers to the recnology used for the radio transmitter, if it uses that, it is a GSM phone. If the sim is "hardwired" then it isn't a sim, by definition.
So while it wouldn't meet all of the criteria of what a GSM phone must have, it would still be a GSM phone.
Not exactly. GSM refers to the tecnology used for the radio transmitter, if it uses that, it is a GSM phone. If the sim is "hardwired" then it isn't sim, by definition.
So while it wouldn't meet all of the criteria of what a GSM phone must have, it would still be a GSM phone.
GSM is a standard (more than just technology used for the radio transmitter) and as such I was under the impression that in order for your product to claim GSM as a feature you had to follow the standard. I can't imagine the cellular operators allowing devices that don't follow the standard exactly as it was approved. We're not talking about web browsers that CLAIM to support HTML when in reality is pale comparison only somewhat resembling the spec.
Quote:
One of the key features of GSM is the Subscriber Identity Module (SIM), commonly known as a SIM card. The SIM is a detachable smart card containing the user's subscription information and phonebook. This allows the user to retain his or her information after switching handsets.
"The use of SIM cards is mandatory in the GSM world. The equivalent of a SIM in UMTS is called the Universal Integrated Circuit Card (UICC), whereas the Removable User Identity Module (RUIM) is more popular in CDMA phones."
Not legally. First Skype is a full application which you would somehow have to install around Apple's restrictions. Then if you read the plan disclaimers listed above: Prohibited III) says no VOIP allowed.
The legality of VOIP can't be helped, but a simple web app would be simple an robust enough to serve most needs.
GSM is a standard and as such I was under the impression that in order for your product to claim GSM as a feature you had to follow the standard. I can't imagine the cellular operators allowing devices that don't follow the standard exactly as it was approved. We're not talking about web browsers that CLAIM to support HTML when in reality is pale comparison only somewhat resembling the spec.
Unlike what Timon seems to think in his misguided response to my post to you, I'm not claiming that the iPhone does not have a sim. I'm well aware it does.
But, GSM is a method of encoding transmissions, and the particular frequencies used.
Phone manufacturers, and governmental agencies, in Europe got together to form a standard for the *phones* in Europe, and for the carriers using them.
But, GSM is GSM. It has nothing to do with all of that. CDMA has its equivalent, but it's not required here. A sim may be required here, but I've never been interested enough to find out. It's irrelevant to me.
Not too bad. The 200 SMS isn't that good but unlimited data is great. I'm paying 75 bucks a month for 450 minutes and a data plan for 15.99. This is a pretty good deal. The deal is nothing to cheer about, nor is it nothing to jeer about.
I pay $35/month with T-Mobile and I have 99 text messages, 99 web page views, and 300 minutes of talk time. Beats the heck out of this deal, however, it reinforces the notion of the iPhone being a premium brand that will appeal to consumers without price sensitivity. Makes sense for the first round.
But, GSM is a method of encoding transmissions, and the particular frequencies used.
GSM is much more than that...
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross
Phone manufacturers, and governmental agencies, in Europe got together to form a standard for the *phones* in Europe, and for the carriers using them. But, GSM is GSM. It has nothing to do with all of that.
This is incorrect...
GSM has EVERYTHING to do with that...
Quote:
The growth of cellular telephone systems started in the early 1980s, particularly in Europe. The lack of a technological standardization prompted the European Conference of Postal and Telecommunications Administrations (CEPT) to create the Groupe Spécial Mobile (GSM) in 1982 with the objective of developing a standard for a mobile telephone system that could be used across Europe.[4] In 1989, GSM responsibility was transferred to the European Telecommunications Standards Institute (ETSI), and phase I of the GSM specifications were published in 1990. The first GSM network was launched in 1991 by Radiolinja in Finland.[5] By the end of 1993, over a million subscribers were using GSM phone networks being operated by 70 carriers across 48 countries.[6]
And the SIM is part of that GSM Specification.
If you have a GSM device then it will have a SIM. It has to since it wouldn't be a GSM device if it didn't.
Did anyone notice in the bottom of the listing of pricing for existing customer in grey it say activation and two year contract required to access all features INCLUDING IPOD. Does this mean that if you can buy an iPhone from someone who decides to cancel their contract or after their contract expires that you can't even use it as a PDA type device or iPod? This would basically leave you holding a brick even if you were to live out your contract and upgrade to a newer model in the future. Let's face it, the iPhone is going to be a pretty desirable PDA device even without cellphone service, especially given it's WiFi capabilities.
If you have a GSM device then it will have a SIM. It has to since it wouldn't be a GSM device if it didn't.
Dave
Ok, I see where our confusion is coming from.
Generally, GSM is referred to as a technology. It's also the overall standard.
It differs here in the US, because the European standard is not law here in the US as it is over there.
For example, GSM here uses different frequencies than used in Europe. That makes US "GSM" phones, not GSM phones in Europe. Get what I mean? They aren't compatible, therefore they don't meet the standard, but they are still GSM phones.
The similarity is the data transmission method that GSM uses both here, and there.
Any phone that uses GPRS is therefore considered to be a GSM phone.
Not having a sim card would fall under the same category.
If GSM is a standard that formalizes service across the countries of the EEC, then any phone that won't work within that standard, isn't a true GSM phone, if thats how you want to look at it.
Therefore, both ATT and T-Mobile aren't GSM operators at all, but some sort of hybrid, as they neither use the standard GSM frequency bands, nor require a sim in their phones (which doesn't mean that the phones may not have them).
i think the data plans are amazing, i am currently an at&t customer and i have a 450minute plan with 5000 night and weekend minutes for 39.99, i would have no problem to add on $20 bucks for the added functionality of the iphone, i dont use alot of minutes, so the $59.99 plan would be perfect for me, i am completely sold on all the iphone features, options, intergration, service plans, etc, etc, and have been eagerly anticipating this device for years, i want this phone more than anything in the world right now, but still find it difficult to drop 500-600 on this item, am i the only one who feels this way? i am torn on whether to take the plundge or to wait for the first price drop
The data plans turned out a little lower than I thought (I expected around $99 for 900 min w/ unlimited data), so I'm pleasantly surprised.
It's still more for 900 minutes ($79) than I what I currently pay T-Mobile (1000 minutes with unlimited data for $69), but not that much more that it would stop me from potentially switching at at&t.
I'm now waiting to hear if it is SIM-locked to AT&T, or can be used on any GSM network...
Still, the way it looks as it is printed now, two iPhones on the family plan save you $10 a month over two individual iPhones on two individual plans.
It should be noted, though, that based on my (possibly mistaken) reading of the chart, it looks like you only get 700 daytime minutes between two people, rather than 450x2 daytime minutes. On the other hand, you get unlimited night/weekend minutes.
Comments
ohh, and it comes preloaded with word and excel?
now i'm really gonna have to go wait in line to "try the thing out" and "see what it does". all i have to do now is grab a sharpie, make the worst looking sign i can, and drive into the city.
So repeat after me:
THE iPHONE HAS A SIM CARD THAT CAN BE REMOVED!, repeat,
THE iPHONE HAS A SIM CARD THAT CAN BE REMOVED!, repeat,
THE iPHONE HAS A SIM CARD THAT CAN BE REMOVED!, repeat,
THE iPHONE HAS A SIM CARD THAT CAN BE REMOVED!, repeat,
THE iPHONE HAS A SIM CARD THAT CAN BE REMOVED!, repeat,
THE iPHONE HAS A SIM CARD THAT CAN BE REMOVED!, repeat,
THE iPHONE HAS A SIM CARD THAT CAN BE REMOVED!, repeat,
THE iPHONE HAS A SIM CARD THAT CAN BE REMOVED!, repeat,
THE iPHONE HAS A SIM CARD THAT CAN BE REMOVED!, repeat,
THE iPHONE HAS A SIM CARD THAT CAN BE REMOVED!, repeat,
THE iPHONE HAS A SIM CARD THAT CAN BE REMOVED!, repeat.
Not exactly. GSM refers to the recnology used for the radio transmitter, if it uses that, it is a GSM phone. If the sim is "hardwired" then it isn't a sim, by definition.
So while it wouldn't meet all of the criteria of what a GSM phone must have, it would still be a GSM phone.
Can we dump all of this talk about SIM cards. Steve said the card can be removed. The sim card is at the top of the iPhone next to the headphone jack.
So repeat after me:
THE iPHONE HAS A SIM CARD THAT CAN BE REMOVED!, repeat,
THE iPHONE HAS A SIM CARD THAT CAN BE REMOVED!, repeat,
THE iPHONE HAS A SIM CARD THAT CAN BE REMOVED!, repeat,
THE iPHONE HAS A SIM CARD THAT CAN BE REMOVED!, repeat,
THE iPHONE HAS A SIM CARD THAT CAN BE REMOVED!, repeat,
THE iPHONE HAS A SIM CARD THAT CAN BE REMOVED!, repeat,
THE iPHONE HAS A SIM CARD THAT CAN BE REMOVED!, repeat,
THE iPHONE HAS A SIM CARD THAT CAN BE REMOVED!, repeat,
THE iPHONE HAS A SIM CARD THAT CAN BE REMOVED!, repeat,
THE iPHONE HAS A SIM CARD THAT CAN BE REMOVED!, repeat,
THE iPHONE HAS A SIM CARD THAT CAN BE REMOVED!, repeat.
What does your post have to do with my reply to Dave?
I think you're mistaken. You can sync an unlimited number of iPods to one library. What you can't do is sync one iPod to more than one library.
You will be able to use an unlimited number of iPhones and iPods with one library.
\\
even songs bought from the itunes music store? i was thinking that this was not permitted on DRMed media
Not exactly. GSM refers to the tecnology used for the radio transmitter, if it uses that, it is a GSM phone. If the sim is "hardwired" then it isn't sim, by definition.
So while it wouldn't meet all of the criteria of what a GSM phone must have, it would still be a GSM phone.
GSM is a standard (more than just technology used for the radio transmitter) and as such I was under the impression that in order for your product to claim GSM as a feature you had to follow the standard. I can't imagine the cellular operators allowing devices that don't follow the standard exactly as it was approved. We're not talking about web browsers that CLAIM to support HTML when in reality is pale comparison only somewhat resembling the spec.
One of the key features of GSM is the Subscriber Identity Module (SIM), commonly known as a SIM card. The SIM is a detachable smart card containing the user's subscription information and phonebook. This allows the user to retain his or her information after switching handsets.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subscriber_Identity_Module
"The use of SIM cards is mandatory in the GSM world. The equivalent of a SIM in UMTS is called the Universal Integrated Circuit Card (UICC), whereas the Removable User Identity Module (RUIM) is more popular in CDMA phones."
Dave
Not legally. First Skype is a full application which you would somehow have to install around Apple's restrictions. Then if you read the plan disclaimers listed above: Prohibited III) says no VOIP allowed.
The legality of VOIP can't be helped, but a simple web app would be simple an robust enough to serve most needs.
GSM is a standard and as such I was under the impression that in order for your product to claim GSM as a feature you had to follow the standard. I can't imagine the cellular operators allowing devices that don't follow the standard exactly as it was approved. We're not talking about web browsers that CLAIM to support HTML when in reality is pale comparison only somewhat resembling the spec.
Unlike what Timon seems to think in his misguided response to my post to you, I'm not claiming that the iPhone does not have a sim. I'm well aware it does.
But, GSM is a method of encoding transmissions, and the particular frequencies used.
Phone manufacturers, and governmental agencies, in Europe got together to form a standard for the *phones* in Europe, and for the carriers using them.
But, GSM is GSM. It has nothing to do with all of that. CDMA has its equivalent, but it's not required here. A sim may be required here, but I've never been interested enough to find out. It's irrelevant to me.
\\
even songs bought from the itunes music store? i was thinking that this was not permitted on DRMed media
It is allowed. The license says that up to 5 computers and unlimited iPods are authorized to play iTunes DRMed tracks.
The no VOIP thing can't be helped, but a simple web app would be simple an robust enough to serve most needs.
Now it supported Flash, we could do some fancy voice/video conferencing
Not too bad. The 200 SMS isn't that good but unlimited data is great. I'm paying 75 bucks a month for 450 minutes and a data plan for 15.99. This is a pretty good deal. The deal is nothing to cheer about, nor is it nothing to jeer about.
I pay $35/month with T-Mobile and I have 99 text messages, 99 web page views, and 300 minutes of talk time. Beats the heck out of this deal, however, it reinforces the notion of the iPhone being a premium brand that will appeal to consumers without price sensitivity. Makes sense for the first round.
But, GSM is a method of encoding transmissions, and the particular frequencies used.
GSM is much more than that...
Phone manufacturers, and governmental agencies, in Europe got together to form a standard for the *phones* in Europe, and for the carriers using them. But, GSM is GSM. It has nothing to do with all of that.
This is incorrect...
GSM has EVERYTHING to do with that...
The growth of cellular telephone systems started in the early 1980s, particularly in Europe. The lack of a technological standardization prompted the European Conference of Postal and Telecommunications Administrations (CEPT) to create the Groupe Spécial Mobile (GSM) in 1982 with the objective of developing a standard for a mobile telephone system that could be used across Europe.[4] In 1989, GSM responsibility was transferred to the European Telecommunications Standards Institute (ETSI), and phase I of the GSM specifications were published in 1990. The first GSM network was launched in 1991 by Radiolinja in Finland.[5] By the end of 1993, over a million subscribers were using GSM phone networks being operated by 70 carriers across 48 countries.[6]
And the SIM is part of that GSM Specification.
If you have a GSM device then it will have a SIM. It has to since it wouldn't be a GSM device if it didn't.
Dave
GSM is much more than that...
This is incorrect...
GSM has EVERYTHING to do with that...
And the SIM is part of that GSM Specification.
If you have a GSM device then it will have a SIM. It has to since it wouldn't be a GSM device if it didn't.
Dave
Ok, I see where our confusion is coming from.
Generally, GSM is referred to as a technology. It's also the overall standard.
It differs here in the US, because the European standard is not law here in the US as it is over there.
For example, GSM here uses different frequencies than used in Europe. That makes US "GSM" phones, not GSM phones in Europe. Get what I mean? They aren't compatible, therefore they don't meet the standard, but they are still GSM phones.
The similarity is the data transmission method that GSM uses both here, and there.
Any phone that uses GPRS is therefore considered to be a GSM phone.
Not having a sim card would fall under the same category.
If GSM is a standard that formalizes service across the countries of the EEC, then any phone that won't work within that standard, isn't a true GSM phone, if thats how you want to look at it.
Therefore, both ATT and T-Mobile aren't GSM operators at all, but some sort of hybrid, as they neither use the standard GSM frequency bands, nor require a sim in their phones (which doesn't mean that the phones may not have them).
See what I'm saying?
\\Let's face it, the iPhone is going to be a pretty desirable PDA device even without cellphone service, especially given it's WiFi capabilities.
i guess not according to the service agreement that will leave it non functional without at&t service
It's still more for 900 minutes ($79) than I what I currently pay T-Mobile (1000 minutes with unlimited data for $69), but not that much more that it would stop me from potentially switching at at&t.
I'm now waiting to hear if it is SIM-locked to AT&T, or can be used on any GSM network...
i am torn on whether to take the plundge or to wait for the first price drop
You'll be waiting for a long time. Nothing from the competition even comes close at this point.
The activation video shows that you can add 1500 SMS msgs for $10/month and unlimited SMS for $20/month.
I was wondering is the sms like a text cost each time I send or a session.. like in Ichat..
Still, the way it looks as it is printed now, two iPhones on the family plan save you $10 a month over two individual iPhones on two individual plans.
It should be noted, though, that based on my (possibly mistaken) reading of the chart, it looks like you only get 700 daytime minutes between two people, rather than 450x2 daytime minutes. On the other hand, you get unlimited night/weekend minutes.
no gouging seen yea