I have no inside knowledge, so take it for what it's worth. And yes, Digi has been good for Apple. But Avid was good for Apple too... until they moved 90% of their development to Windoze NT. Could that have been when the FCP project went into high gear? Maybe I'm wrong, but Apple was prolly seriously pissed off... and in "sticking it" to Digi, they're hitting Avid in the wallet...</strong><hr></blockquote>
Quite the contrary. There are absolutely no hard feelings between the two companies. In fact, Apple has been helping Digidesign bring ProTools to OS X for the past YEAR and it will finally hit the market in Fall as a DIGIDESIGN product.
About this whole audio app from apple, i agree that it would never be in the same arena as ProTools. I could see a light-weight simple audio editing program that required no exterior hardware and possibly a plug-in structure for third-party additions.
Apple bringing something to market to compete with ProTool? Dont count on it.
About this whole audio app from apple, i agree that it would never be in the same arena as ProTools. I could see a light-weight simple audio editing program that required no exterior hardware and possibly a plug-in structure for third-party additions.
Apple bringing something to market to compete with ProTool? Dont count on it.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I am a little curious about this whole Audio iApp, or should I say confused.
I really cant see a purpose for Apple to release an Audio edit/record application. I see the logic behind FCP and iDVD etc, they have a purpose and there was space/need for them in the marketplace but an Audio App. I just dont get it??? I assume it would be chaper than protools etc but what will the benefit be, what area of the market will it be for? I cant see why the consumer would really want it. (I may be wrong?)
I cam not critising (that would be silly as this app is not confirmed) just questioning...
Can somebody enlighten me a little <img src="confused.gif" border="0">
<strong>I am a little curious about this whole Audio iApp, or should I say confused.
I really cant see a purpose for Apple to release an Audio edit/record application. I see the logic behind FCP and iDVD etc, they have a purpose and there was space/need for them in the marketplace but an Audio App. I just dont get it??? I assume it would be chaper than protools etc but what will the benefit be, what area of the market will it be for? I cant see why the consumer would really want it. (I may be wrong?)
I cam not critising (that would be silly as this app is not confirmed) just questioning...
<strong>I am a little curious about this whole Audio iApp, or should I say confused.
I really cant see a purpose for Apple to release an Audio edit/record application. I see the logic behind FCP and iDVD etc, they have a purpose and there was space/need for them in the marketplace but an Audio App. I just dont get it??? I assume it would be chaper than protools etc but what will the benefit be, what area of the market will it be for? I cant see why the consumer would really want it. (I may be wrong?)
I cam not critising (that would be silly as this app is not confirmed) just questioning...
Can somebody enlighten me a little
</strong><hr></blockquote>
The idea is that this supposed product is not an iApp, but a professional suite. For Apple's fleet of creative customers, this would be an important addition to their (growing) arsenal of OS X tools.
You're looking at the difference between iMovie and FCP, between iDVD and DVD Studio Pro. While there isn't a consumer recording app, there are plenty of Mac using professionals who would like stronger sound recording.. Apple's releasing a pro suite for OS X would help to push the move as well.
You're looking at the difference between iMovie and FCP, between iDVD and DVD Studio Pro. While there isn't a consumer recording app, there are plenty of Mac using professionals who would like stronger sound recording.. Apple's releasing a pro suite for OS X would help to push the move as well.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Sorry, I didnt mean to draw contrasts between iApps and Apple Pro Apps....
If it was an iApp (like Flounder suggests) it may be OK! But a Pro App like Protools minus the cost doesnt make sense...
There is the Very Big Picture (aka, the Huge picture), the Big Picture, ans the Small Picture, IMHO.
The Huge Picture (platform): Apple has decided that it can't ever beat Windows at it's game, so it is going to eat them at a new game. Mac will NEVER have as much aggregate software as Windows, but instead of trying, they are going to have very good Mac-only software, to keep the platform healthy. One way to do this is to roll your own, as they say.
The Big Picture (marketplace): When Apple bought and polished FCP, no one thought anyone i their right mind would take on the entrenched competition, with Avid at the higher end and Premiere at the lower. But Apple did, splitting the difference between the two. Premiere never really has caught FCP, and Avid is only in the past few years is starting to 'get' the idea.
The Small Picture (sales): Software sales are a good proposition. You can make teh monies if you have the goods.
All of this has been my opinion. I still know nothing more that what I originally posted: a guy I know who has ben spot-on about Apple (and other tech companies) told me it was going to happen. All scenarios, dreams, confusion, and nightmares beyond that on my or others' parts is pure speculation.
A free, low end iApp would be good for Apple. In one of the analyst call in sessions Steve said that the iApps were relatively cheap for Apple to develop and distribute. We have AppleWorks for an office suite, iPhoto for pictures, iDVD and iMovie for video. Audio is the last area to cover.
A simple app to record, edit, mix and massage audio and then burn it to a CD or add it to an email or an iMovie would be a nice tool for the average consumer. Rather than challenging the pro apps this could bring audio editing to more people (and some of them will upgrade to the pro apps). Best yet, if its from Apple it will be scriptable by AppleScript.
<strong>A free, low end iApp would be good for Apple. In one of the analyst call in sessions Steve said that the iApps were relatively cheap for Apple to develop and distribute. We have AppleWorks for an office suite, iPhoto for pictures, iDVD and iMovie for video. Audio is the last area to cover.
A simple app to record, edit, mix and massage audio and then burn it to a CD or add it to an email or an iMovie would be a nice tool for the average consumer. Rather than challenging the pro apps this could bring audio editing to more people (and some of them will upgrade to the pro apps). Best yet, if its from Apple it will be scriptable by AppleScript.
OK - this sounds plausible (and a good thing for Apple to do too!) but the original post was about a high end audio suite a'la FCP for audio.
I agree with synthman's comments, though - Apple buying out Motu would be probably more expensive than it's worth. But I just love the MOTU stuff!
Also, I read somewhere (maybe at unicornation) that Gibson has sold off the Opcode team to Apple - so it may be a StudioVision rebirth under an Apple badge. Given that Apple had the OMS guy do some work on OS X for core audio, this could be on the cards.
-----
One more thing - it bothers me that Apple has iDVD for making DVDs, iMovie for making movies, iPhoto for organising photos, yet chose the name iTunes for organising music. By that logic they should have called iPhoto, iPics or something just a flippant.
Oh well, maybe if they plan on releasing an iApp for music making (as oppposed to organising) they could call it iMusic. <img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" />
I would be very suprised if Apple bought MOTU. Synthman might be closer to the truth, something along the line of Deck or Micromat's SoundEdit 16 ripoff. I was given the "insider scoop" on Digital Perfomer 3.1 at NAMM in January by MOTU techs. They said it was "less than 3 weeks from shipping" at the time. It's been over 4 months since then, and not a peep. The strange thing is, I actually played with a working version of 3.1 at the show. It seemed finished to me. My theory had been that by the time they got the third party stuff worked out (PT compatibility and plug-in automation) Steve-O and the Apple clan announced OS9 as DEAD. Now, wouldn't it be silly to announce shipping a new product that only really runs on an OS that was "DEAD"? I thought so. So they probably said, "WELL, **** ! Now we have to make it X native!" and went back to the drawing board. There was a beta of 3.2 circulating for a while, and it was OS9 designed. I think they'll jump to 3.5 or 4 for OSX. Or maybe they'll get cheesy and make it version X.
Honestly, I think a lot of the rumors circulating about Apple designing an audio suite are based on the absolute fact that they are designing a kick-ass audio layer that takes over a lot of work that audio apps (and even hardware) have traditionally done. The next most plausible explanation (which doesn't rule the first one out) is that Apple is lending a lot of engineers to various audio companies to get OS X audio apps up to speed quickly. After that, I can imagine a good, but not comprehensive, app designed to work closely with FCP, and a very simple recording app to work with iMovie.
But I don't see Apple tackling the pro audio space. FCP established Apple in a market where the alternatives were either moribund and mediocre (Premiere) or expensive and complex (Avid). But there are a lot of excellent, diligently updated audio applications shipping for Macintosh across a broad range of prices and power levels, so I don't think this market has the same urgency.
Also, I think the point of the fancy new audio layer is to get every app that uses audio to be able to talk to, and cooperate with, every other app. That will take some doing on Apple's part, which would mean there are a lot of engineers out there guiding the various vendors into doing the right thing.
The new Midi prefs in JagWire are a first for defualt system prefs are they not? Not my field but Apple is getting OS X ready for some audio apps/hardware by August for sure.
I think there are two things that Apple could do, and should do, that wouldn't necessarily alienate the very high end audio folks:
1. an iProgram comparable to Soundedit-16, bot for OSX,of course. . . for recording ect, w/ minimal effects, maximal tracks and mixing . . . or even sporting a VST plugin architecture for expandability.
and/or
2. Fill the very real need to have a decent sound synch operation for high-end, or prosumer video . . . something internal, that would replace the need for the extremely expensive Protools synching devices, or the now defunct SMPTE slave driver with deck and motor controls etc.. Something that utilizes time code, with video burned-in, multiple tracks, spot-synching and a plugin adaptable environment (if that's the right way to say that )
Perhaps with the latter option (#2), since the Digidesign synching device is very expensive, perhaps they are working with PT to make a lower end app that will bridge between PTs and FCP internally, w/out hardware.... if that makes any sense. . . .
anyway, I am dying for a decent way to spot-synch sound internally, at 48khz that has a decent track situation and can keep track of numbers . . . . PT free and 44.1khz and that little video window is not doing it for me... not at all.
I would love if Apple would release an iApp that would be the equivalent of Sonic Foundry's ACID. Call it iDJ or iMix or something. I don't think there is something like it currently for OS X or 9.
Plus, that would be great commercial material, I could just picture a commercial with a DJ with, like, 4 turntables and a rack of audio equipment vs. a guy on a iMac w/ iDJ, duelling each other in a scratching battle. The mac guy would win, of course.
If it will be an iApp, then I guess it will be something that has to work with MPEG-4 and support AAC. Then again, perhaps the iApp in question is a BEEFED up version of iTunes that will support AAC and have a waveform editor a la Audion.
<strong>I would love if Apple would release an iApp that would be the equivalent of Sonic Foundry's ACID. Call it iDJ or iMix or something. I don't think there is something like it currently for OS X or 9.
Plus, that would be great commercial material, I could just picture a commercial with a DJ with, like, 4 turntables and a rack of audio equipment vs. a guy on a iMac w/ iDJ, duelling each other in a scratching battle. The mac guy would win, of course.
It's called live, but I don't remember who makes it. I think they're called Ableton or something, but I might be confusing that name with some other company. Anyway, the app is out and it's called live.
Comments
<strong>
I have no inside knowledge, so take it for what it's worth. And yes, Digi has been good for Apple. But Avid was good for Apple too... until they moved 90% of their development to Windoze NT. Could that have been when the FCP project went into high gear? Maybe I'm wrong, but Apple was prolly seriously pissed off... and in "sticking it" to Digi, they're hitting Avid in the wallet...</strong><hr></blockquote>
Quite the contrary. There are absolutely no hard feelings between the two companies. In fact, Apple has been helping Digidesign bring ProTools to OS X for the past YEAR and it will finally hit the market in Fall as a DIGIDESIGN product.
About this whole audio app from apple, i agree that it would never be in the same arena as ProTools. I could see a light-weight simple audio editing program that required no exterior hardware and possibly a plug-in structure for third-party additions.
Apple bringing something to market to compete with ProTool? Dont count on it.
<strong>
About this whole audio app from apple, i agree that it would never be in the same arena as ProTools. I could see a light-weight simple audio editing program that required no exterior hardware and possibly a plug-in structure for third-party additions.
Apple bringing something to market to compete with ProTool? Dont count on it.</strong><hr></blockquote>
There is no Jet Powers
I really cant see a purpose for Apple to release an Audio edit/record application. I see the logic behind FCP and iDVD etc, they have a purpose and there was space/need for them in the marketplace but an Audio App. I just dont get it???
I cam not critising (that would be silly as this app is not confirmed) just questioning...
Can somebody enlighten me a little <img src="confused.gif" border="0">
[ 06-12-2002: Message edited by: trevorM ]</p>
<strong>I am a little curious about this whole Audio iApp, or should I say confused.
I really cant see a purpose for Apple to release an Audio edit/record application. I see the logic behind FCP and iDVD etc, they have a purpose and there was space/need for them in the marketplace but an Audio App. I just dont get it???
I cam not critising (that would be silly as this app is not confirmed) just questioning...
Can somebody enlighten me a little
[ 06-12-2002: Message edited by: trevorM ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
Good point. I can't see a good reason for Apple to get into this market at all, for it is one of those left with very good support for the Mac.
DIGI, STEINBERG, EMAGIC, MOTU, TC WORKS, BIAS all announced OS X software and have excellent products in their field.
The only thing Apple would achieve is decreasing support for the Mac. Very bad, indeed.
An i-app would be fine, though. Wouldn't hurt pro sales at all.
<img src="confused.gif" border="0">
<strong>I am a little curious about this whole Audio iApp, or should I say confused.
I really cant see a purpose for Apple to release an Audio edit/record application. I see the logic behind FCP and iDVD etc, they have a purpose and there was space/need for them in the marketplace but an Audio App. I just dont get it???
I cam not critising (that would be silly as this app is not confirmed) just questioning...
Can somebody enlighten me a little
</strong><hr></blockquote>
The idea is that this supposed product is not an iApp, but a professional suite. For Apple's fleet of creative customers, this would be an important addition to their (growing) arsenal of OS X tools.
You're looking at the difference between iMovie and FCP, between iDVD and DVD Studio Pro. While there isn't a consumer recording app, there are plenty of Mac using professionals who would like stronger sound recording.. Apple's releasing a pro suite for OS X would help to push the move as well.
<strong>
You're looking at the difference between iMovie and FCP, between iDVD and DVD Studio Pro. While there isn't a consumer recording app, there are plenty of Mac using professionals who would like stronger sound recording.. Apple's releasing a pro suite for OS X would help to push the move as well.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Sorry, I didnt mean to draw contrasts between iApps and Apple Pro Apps....
If it was an iApp (like Flounder suggests) it may be OK! But a Pro App like Protools minus the cost doesnt make sense...
Anyhow just my thoughts..
The Huge Picture (platform): Apple has decided that it can't ever beat Windows at it's game, so it is going to eat them at a new game. Mac will NEVER have as much aggregate software as Windows, but instead of trying, they are going to have very good Mac-only software, to keep the platform healthy. One way to do this is to roll your own, as they say.
The Big Picture (marketplace): When Apple bought and polished FCP, no one thought anyone i their right mind would take on the entrenched competition, with Avid at the higher end and Premiere at the lower. But Apple did, splitting the difference between the two. Premiere never really has caught FCP, and Avid is only in the past few years is starting to 'get' the idea.
The Small Picture (sales): Software sales are a good proposition. You can make teh monies if you have the goods.
All of this has been my opinion. I still know nothing more that what I originally posted: a guy I know who has ben spot-on about Apple (and other tech companies) told me it was going to happen. All scenarios, dreams, confusion, and nightmares beyond that on my or others' parts is pure speculation.
Jet Powers hates InfiniteJester
A simple app to record, edit, mix and massage audio and then burn it to a CD or add it to an email or an iMovie would be a nice tool for the average consumer. Rather than challenging the pro apps this could bring audio editing to more people (and some of them will upgrade to the pro apps). Best yet, if its from Apple it will be scriptable by AppleScript.
[ 06-12-2002: Message edited by: neutrino23 ]</p>
<strong>A free, low end iApp would be good for Apple. In one of the analyst call in sessions Steve said that the iApps were relatively cheap for Apple to develop and distribute. We have AppleWorks for an office suite, iPhoto for pictures, iDVD and iMovie for video. Audio is the last area to cover.
A simple app to record, edit, mix and massage audio and then burn it to a CD or add it to an email or an iMovie would be a nice tool for the average consumer. Rather than challenging the pro apps this could bring audio editing to more people (and some of them will upgrade to the pro apps). Best yet, if its from Apple it will be scriptable by AppleScript.
[ 06-12-2002: Message edited by: neutrino23 ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
OK - this sounds plausible (and a good thing for Apple to do too!) but the original post was about a high end audio suite a'la FCP for audio.
I agree with synthman's comments, though - Apple buying out Motu would be probably more expensive than it's worth. But I just love the MOTU stuff!
Also, I read somewhere (maybe at unicornation) that Gibson has sold off the Opcode team to Apple - so it may be a StudioVision rebirth under an Apple badge. Given that Apple had the OMS guy do some work on OS X for core audio, this could be on the cards.
-----
One more thing - it bothers me that Apple has iDVD for making DVDs, iMovie for making movies, iPhoto for organising photos, yet chose the name iTunes for organising music. By that logic they should have called iPhoto, iPics or something just a flippant.
Oh well, maybe if they plan on releasing an iApp for music making (as oppposed to organising) they could call it iMusic. <img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" />
Mack Diggidy Damon
But I don't see Apple tackling the pro audio space. FCP established Apple in a market where the alternatives were either moribund and mediocre (Premiere) or expensive and complex (Avid). But there are a lot of excellent, diligently updated audio applications shipping for Macintosh across a broad range of prices and power levels, so I don't think this market has the same urgency.
Also, I think the point of the fancy new audio layer is to get every app that uses audio to be able to talk to, and cooperate with, every other app. That will take some doing on Apple's part, which would mean there are a lot of engineers out there guiding the various vendors into doing the right thing.
This is all wide-open speculation, of course.
1. an iProgram comparable to Soundedit-16, bot for OSX,of course. . . for recording ect, w/ minimal effects, maximal tracks and mixing . . . or even sporting a VST plugin architecture for expandability.
and/or
2. Fill the very real need to have a decent sound synch operation for high-end, or prosumer video . . . something internal, that would replace the need for the extremely expensive Protools synching devices, or the now defunct SMPTE slave driver with deck and motor controls etc.. Something that utilizes time code, with video burned-in, multiple tracks, spot-synching and a plugin adaptable environment (if that's the right way to say that
Perhaps with the latter option (#2), since the Digidesign synching device is very expensive, perhaps they are working with PT to make a lower end app that will bridge between PTs and FCP internally, w/out hardware.... if that makes any sense. . . .
anyway, I am dying for a decent way to spot-synch sound internally, at 48khz that has a decent track situation and can keep track of numbers . . . . PT free and 44.1khz and that little video window is not doing it for me... not at all.
[ 06-13-2002: Message edited by: pfflam ]</p>
Plus, that would be great commercial material, I could just picture a commercial with a DJ with, like, 4 turntables and a rack of audio equipment vs. a guy on a iMac w/ iDJ, duelling each other in a scratching battle. The mac guy would win, of course.
[ 06-14-2002: Message edited by: Analogue bubblebath ]</p>
<strong>I would love if Apple would release an iApp that would be the equivalent of Sonic Foundry's ACID. Call it iDJ or iMix or something. I don't think there is something like it currently for OS X or 9.
Plus, that would be great commercial material, I could just picture a commercial with a DJ with, like, 4 turntables and a rack of audio equipment vs. a guy on a iMac w/ iDJ, duelling each other in a scratching battle. The mac guy would win, of course.
[ 06-14-2002: Message edited by: Analogue bubblebath ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
There IS such an app out already!
It's called live, but I don't remember who makes it. I think they're called Ableton or something, but I might be confusing that name with some other company. Anyway, the app is out and it's called live.
just think an Apple 48khz Protools like sound editor for video spot-synching. . . .and imagine with audiosuite plugz . . . &.... &...
jeez... its worse than porn this runaway imagination
I just saw <a href="http://forums.appleinsider.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=3&t=001042http://forums.appleinsider.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=3&t=001042"; target="_blank">this thread</a> and am knocked out!!!
This is big news to musos who have been craving OS X software. What will happen now?
This could shape up to be a very interesting month.