apple aquires emagic

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  • Reply 61 of 109
    Only one? Windows uses still got Cakewalk and Sound Forge, besides Cubase. Don't worry the "Windows community" will do just fine.
  • Reply 62 of 109
    badtzbadtz Posts: 949member
    I know cakewalk/soundforge is there. Not that they aren't capable programs [they def. are], but they aren't as widely used in the major studios........
  • Reply 63 of 109
    sizzle chestsizzle chest Posts: 1,133member
    [quote]Originally posted by SQUÅSH:

    <strong>I too thought Motu was a good fit for apple, but Motu will be fine. They make some great hardware, especially external stuff. Motu 828 and 896 are awesome pieces of equipment.



    I believe both work fine with logic and protools...please correct me if i'm wrong. </strong><hr></blockquote>



    Actually Pro Tools (except the stripped-down free version) does not support any audio interface other than Digidesign's own. Digi makes more money on hardware than software.



    Logic Audio does in fact worth with MOTU's interfaces, though, as do most standard Mac audio apps (Spark, Deck, Peak, Live, various NI stuff) from companies other than MOTU themselves. And of course all MOTU apps support MOTU hardware (except for the fact that nothing runs under OSX yet).
  • Reply 64 of 109
    mac+mac+ Posts: 580member
    OK - I've slept on this and now I want to talk a bit more laterally about this takeover. I don't want to just focus on a "killer" audio app here.



    Apple now has the chance to establish an industry standard for both audio and MIDI in its core audio section of OS X. For too long there have been competing standards, Free MIDI & OMS for MIDI (not to forget the proprietory systems of MIDI Time Stamping and Active MIDI transmission too!) and then VST, MAS and RTAS for audio. (I'm firing these acronyms off the top of my head so please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.) Apple could really solidify system level audio control. If we are now to have multi-channel audio shared amongst apps coupled with a built in standard for handling MIDI then the end user needs system level control for all these features to work seamlessly. It will be very interesting to see what developments occur now.



    Also, Apple now has the opportunity to utilise the Emagic hardware division so they can address their lack of built in audio on their machines by offering bus powered 6in/2out audio interfaces with a built in MIDI port, for example. <a href="http://www.emagic.de/english/products/hardware/index.html"; target="_blank">Check this out.</a> I know there has been talk about the Logic Control unit - but as stated, that is outsourced to Mackie - who are now promoting the same unit for Motu's DP (did they see the writing on the wall?). I think Apple could benfit enormously by incorportating some of the Emagic hardware features into their PowerMac line - perhaps as add in chips or even on the mobo (is this possible - I don't know).



    Then, there's the issue of software synths. Emagic has some pretty good sounding virtual instruments and, let's face it, the QuickTIme Musical Instruments sound set is nothing but a Roland General MIDI sound set. Wouldn't it be nice to regain precise sonic control of the sounds your computer is capable of making? This is another crucial area which Apple should explore.



    The next few months are going to be quite exciting for the audio/MIDI world now. We'll just have to wait and see what evolves in the Apple camp after the dust settles.



    Please forgive the long post - but I really want the chance to discuss these issues with other people who are interested in this topic. Thanks!



    [Edit: typos - hate'em]



    [ 07-02-2002: Message edited by: Mac+ ]</p>
  • Reply 65 of 109
    badtzbadtz Posts: 949member
    The problem, imo, isn't that standards [vst, mas, mts, tdm, etc.] will/won't have better/worse integration.



    the problem i see is that the OS, hardware, software, and everything in between is now primarily controlled by APPLE.



    Personally, I don't want a major monopoly like that in the audio field. I'm curious to see how motu will stand up to all of this.



    CoreMIDI is a standard that I'm sure most audio sequencers for the mac will/would have eventually support anyhow. System-level midi integration with low latencies......



    Logic is nice. But I use motu DP. How will this all fair out?



    From a user's perspective: Mac Logic users win.



    Business perspective: Apple wins, Steinberg now will have more converted customers from Logic on the PC.



    Pro Tools has always been their little own niche.



    The one left in the curious position is MOTU users & the company.



    And the one's completely left in the dust is PC Logic users.



    I think that was very un-called for from apple to stop PC development on an app that's been a major vamp of both platforms for so long. Audio programs aren't cheap, and to flush down a major investment [users] like that to 35% of the logic market is appalling! You know if microsoft did that, the world would be angered ten times over [even if the audio market wasn't your specialty] but just because it was microsoft.



    I still like apple, but this is one MAJOR thumbs down for them in my book.



    ......woo all of that was IMO btw ;-)
  • Reply 66 of 109
    neutrino23neutrino23 Posts: 1,561member
    At this point to criticize Apple for dumping the windoze users is a bit premature. It might be a bad move but we don't yet know the motive.



    I doubt Apple's decision to dump this source of revenue was made lightly. After all, they support other cross platform apps such as FMP and QT.



    Perhaps they have plans down the road for integrating this with other Apple apps/hardware and that integration didn't make sense on a wintel platform?
  • Reply 67 of 109
    badtzbadtz Posts: 949member
    Either way you look at it, they are dumping a BIG chunk of users. Audio Sequencers are not cheap. Not easy to learn. Especially Logic.



    On the PC platform, "great" [subjectively speaking] sequencers are not abundant.



    Doesn't matter what apple's motives are, the fact is, they ARE dropping PC development on a platform that A LOT of people depend heavily on and have devoted countless hours to learn........
  • Reply 68 of 109
    I know what it's like when your favourite product is no longer developped. I was a user of Opcode Studio Vision before Gibson killed it. It's really quite a drag to totally relearn all your audio skills, especially when you're doing something creative like making music.



    Another thing is (this is my personal opinion, but one that is shared by my Logic friends), when you're famailiar with Logic, using Cubase feels very restricted. I'm sure Apple is betting on the PC users of Logic to switch to Mac . Spending a few thousand dollars on hardware, is nothing compared to a daily slow down in productivity due to learning another (less powerfull) program. Add to that that current tests have show OS X to have to lowest latency of any platform, and you've got no reason not to switch platforms!



    I'm curious though if Apple will release MicroLogic as an iApp. the future is very exciting!!!
  • Reply 69 of 109
    xaqtlyxaqtly Posts: 450member
    I'm still using Studio Vision. But maybe depending on what comes out of this Emagic buyout, it'll be exactly what I need to switch over to OS X at home. I would love to see an iMusic or an Audio Pro or something along those lines... but just the fact that some of the hardware and interface issues will be solved makes me feel better.
  • Reply 70 of 109
    krassykrassy Posts: 595member
    i don't know if Mackie Design produces the Logic Control Completely but it for sure does the 100mm fader, which are great. Btw i was on a logic-event in decembre 2001 ... they showed Logic 5.0 and Logic Control on a DP 800 ... the emagic-guy said that emagic was very happy about the good situation (development support) between emagic and apple *grin* ... Logic Control is amazing and so is Logic 5 with the ability to have integrated software synths, VST AND TDM plug-Ins... the additional audio-hardware such as the 6|2 could be useful for apple to integrate in future hardware/workstations...



    <a href="http://www.apple.com/creative/music/gear/emagic.html"; target="_blank">Emagic on Apples Website</a>



    [ 07-02-2002: Message edited by: Krassy ]</p>
  • Reply 71 of 109
    zerozero Posts: 39member
    [quote]Originally posted by Krassy:

    <strong>i don't know if Mackie Design produces the Logic Control Completely but it for sure does the 100mm fader, which are great [...]</strong><hr></blockquote>



    Logic Control was a collaboration between Emagic and Mackie Designs. The faders are motorized 100mm touch-sensitive Penny & Giles faders (not built by Mackie). Specifications and software implementation by Emagic but designed and assembled by Mackie I guess.

    It seems that Mackie has the license to build the same controller for other companies (look here: <a href="http://www.motu.com/)" target="_blank">http://www.motu.com/)</a>
  • Reply 72 of 109
    g-zerog-zero Posts: 1member
    [quote]Originally posted by Krassy:

    <strong>i don't know if Mackie Design produces the Logic Control Completely but it for sure does the 100mm fader, which are great. Btw i was on a logic-event in decembre 2001 ... they showed Logic 5.0 and Logic Control on a DP 800 ... the emagic-guy said that emagic was very happy about the good situation (development support) between emagic and apple *grin* ... Logic Control is amazing and so is Logic 5 with the ability to have integrated software synths, VST AND TDM plug-Ins... the additional audio-hardware such as the 6|2 could be useful for apple to integrate in future hardware/workstations...



    [ 07-02-2002: Message edited by: Krassy ]</strong><hr></blockquote>



    Allow me to clarify something, as I work (indirectly) for Emagic:



    Logic Control was a joint venture between Mackie and Emagic. Mackie made the the hardware, and Emagic made the software. the recently announced Mackie Control is simply a Logic Control with Digital Performer-specific software developed by MOTU, hence the identical look. BTW Emagic also has HUI Emulation software for the Logic Control, that allows one to use LC on any OMS compatible DAW, like DP, Cubase, and Pro Tools.
  • Reply 73 of 109
    krassykrassy Posts: 595member
    [quote]Originally posted by zero:

    <strong>



    Logic Control was a collaboration between Emagic and Mackie Designs. The faders are motorized 100mm touch-sensitive Penny & Giles faders (not built by Mackie). Specifications and software implementation by Emagic but designed and assembled by Mackie I guess.

    It seems that Mackie has the license to build the same controller for other companies (look here: <a href="http://www.motu.com/)" target="_blank">http://www.motu.com/)</a></strong><hr></blockquote>



    yes - that's very interesting... so what do you think - is the license to build the interface bought from emagic or a result of the partnership between both companies? or is the 'Control' owned by mackie and emagic just sells it for their own products?



    hmm...
  • Reply 74 of 109
    zerozero Posts: 39member
    [quote]Originally posted by Krassy:

    <strong>



    yes - that's very interesting... so what do you think - is the license to build the interface bought from emagic or a result of the partnership between both companies? or is the 'Control' owned by mackie and emagic just sells it for their own products?



    hmm...</strong><hr></blockquote>



    a result of partnership, contracts and $bigbucks$. though i expected at least one year of "emagic only" distribution agreement. strange that motu already boasts with the same marketing words as emagic did on its website some month ago. so when will the "motu control" really be available? next summer ?
  • Reply 75 of 109
    hmurchisonhmurchison Posts: 12,419member
    I don't feel sorry for the PC Logic Users. This is business and these apps are about Music Creation.



    I want to see a showcase app for displaying what Core Audio can do. I don't want to see half baked attempts by Cross Platform Developers who only use a small function of each platforms strengths to keep the Codebase similar as possible.



    Final Cut Pro shows the power of Quicktime.



    Logic Audio will show the power of Core Audio.
  • Reply 76 of 109
    Well i've always been a ProTools user and always will be. BTW ProTools for X will be out in the Fall (confirmed by emails from digidesign PR). Im postive Digidesign hasn't the slightest thing to worry about with apple's aquisistion of emagic. What im worried about is the other light-weight programs (compared to the industry-standard protools) that are going to have to compete with a program that is getting this much help from apple.

    iTunes came out and soundjam got killed rediculously fast (yes i know the main engineer went to apple but they could have continued development)

    Other than that, i dont really mind apple taking over emagic. I also couldnt care less about the windows veresion being dropped. These people arent left in the dark. There are dozens of other apps (including a few VERY capable, maybe even more so than logic) that they can go to. OR if they are really serious about music creation, they will buy a mac. The macinotosh platform has always been the choice platform for music production, and i see apple's &emagic as apple trying to carry that into the OS X days.





    Just my $0.02
  • Reply 77 of 109
    giantgiant Posts: 6,041member
    You must have never touched Logic.
  • Reply 78 of 109
    giantgiant Posts: 6,041member
    [quote]Originally posted by hmurchison:

    <strong>

    Final Cut Pro shows the power of Quicktime.



    Logic Audio will show the power of Core Audio.</strong><hr></blockquote>



    So true! The streets are buzzing like crazy about this. I feel like a kid in a candy store
  • Reply 79 of 109
    squashsquash Posts: 332member
    Have to agree with giant on the never touched logic comment. Logic and Protools are pretty much the elite.....the rest are in a lower class.



    You think they could do something about the phonebook size manual for logic? <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />
  • Reply 80 of 109
    giantgiant Posts: 6,041member
    [quote]Originally posted by SQUÅSH:

    <strong>

    You think they could do something about the phonebook size manual for logic? <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>



    <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />



    One of my first thoughts was about how they are going to have to dumb down the manual. Might turn it into three phonebooks, like director 8.5!
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