iPhone: class-action battery lawsuit, mass AC adapter failures

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  • Reply 61 of 109
    wnursewnurse Posts: 427member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post


    A little more apt comparison would be that the buyer wasn't told that the gas tank would corrode and need to be replaced every two years because it couldn't hold a full tank anymore, and need to be in the shop for a week for repairs. Maybe that's not as good as I would like.



    Dude, if your gas tank ever needs replacing, you should sue the car manufacturer.. what is your car make and model (so i can avoid ever buying it)
  • Reply 62 of 109
    parkyparky Posts: 383member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by wnurse View Post


    The battery issue was not widely known (actually apple did not make a statement about the batteries and mom and pop do not read appleinsider) usually i bash apple because they do stupid greedy things (there is no doubt in my mind that apple can make a thin device with replaceable batteries.. the razr has replaceable batteries and that thing is pretty thin).. so anyone making that argument don't know what they are talking about. However, having said that..the only people with issues really are those that



    1. paid a termination fee to go to AT&T

    2. left their old carrier and switched.



    Perhaps this person is one of those people?. I know if i was a consumer that did not read appleinsider and wired news and switched to buy the iphone and found out that it's the gift that keeps giving apple, i'd be pissed. Now i don't want the phone and i can't get my termination fee back.. plus i would have to pay another termination fee to AT&T (why would i even want to stay with AT&T if i don't have the iphone?).



    The thing i think most people are missing is that discussion in a forum or article on a website does not substitute for official, legal disclosure by a company. Apple cannot claim cause some trade magazine pointed out the battery issue constitutes sufficient disclosure. You'd be amazed how many people do not read any techie magazines (my GF is one, and she wanted an iphone badly.. when i told her about the battery issue, she was very surprised, she had never heard about that.. suffice to say, she decided to hold off on getting the iphone).



    The basis of the case is that the battery needs to be replaced after 300 charges, they claim this will be within a year. This is not true and therefore the battery replacement is irrelevant, as it will not need to be replaced within an unreasonable time. No case to answer.
  • Reply 63 of 109
    superbasssuperbass Posts: 688member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Proximityeffect View Post


    <30 people on the Apple site (out of 200,000+ units sold) = mass AC adapter failures?



    Actually, Apple pretty well-known for deleting a lot of complaints from their support forums, etc. When my computer crashed after an "update" and wouldn't restart, my 3 posts were all deleted, and there was no evidence of any problems on their site. I checked an unofficial site, and lo and behold, there were about 100 posters with the same problem. So, 30 people with the problem could very well be 30,000, depending on how many posts apple deleted to "solve"/minimize the perceived problem.
  • Reply 64 of 109
    mrtotesmrtotes Posts: 760member
    This may well be a stupid law-suit (mainly becuase the battery doesn't just stop after 300 cycles) but let's consider what freedoms Apple is taking away by using a non-user replaceable battery:



    - Can't carry two batteries or more on the move. Hardly a show stopper on an iPod but a real problem on your phone

    - Can't choose from a range of replacements.

    - Need to pay for or have soldering experience to replace.



    What comes next? The MacBook with soldered battery? We'd hate that but to Apple it could be the logical step. So for these reasons we should back those who are fighting Apple on these issues.
  • Reply 65 of 109
    rickagrickag Posts: 1,626member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by wnurse View Post


    The battery issue was not widely known (actually apple did not make a statement about the batteries and mom and pop do not read appleinsider) usually i bash apple because they do stupid greedy things (there is no doubt in my mind that apple can make a thin device with replaceable batteries.. the razr has replaceable batteries and that thing is pretty thin).. so anyone making that argument don't know what they are talking about. However, having said that..the only people with issues really are those that



    1. paid a termination fee to go to AT&T

    2. left their old carrier and switched.



    Perhaps this person is one of those people?. I know if i was a consumer that did not read appleinsider and wired news and switched to buy the iphone and found out that it's the gift that keeps giving apple, i'd be pissed. Now i don't want the phone and i can't get my termination fee back.. plus i would have to pay another termination fee to AT&T (why would i even want to stay with AT&T if i don't have the iphone?).



    The thing i think most people are missing is that discussion in a forum or article on a website does not substitute for official, legal disclosure by a company. Apple cannot claim cause some trade magazine pointed out the battery issue constitutes sufficient disclosure. You'd be amazed how many people do not read any techie magazines (my GF is one, and she wanted an iphone badly.. when i told her about the battery issue, she was very surprised, she had never heard about that.. suffice to say, she decided to hold off on getting the iphone).



    Under the specifications, Apple states,"Built-in rechargeable lithium ion battery:".
  • Reply 66 of 109
    wnursewnurse Posts: 427member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by parky View Post


    The basis of the case is that the battery needs to be replaced after 300 charges, they claim this will be within a year. This is not true and therefore the battery replacement is irrelevant, as it will not need to be replaced within an unreasonable time. No case to answer.



    How would you know it's not true?. Just because apple claims 300 charges last longer than a year does not make it so.. how did apple arrive at length of time... wanna guess or should i tell you... they did an estimated average usage. What if this customer uses his phone so often that he is charging every single day.. a year has more than 300 days so obviously he would exceed 300 charges in a year (and this could be more than 300 full charges).



    Please, i know you might have stayed at a holiday inn last night, but that does not make you a lawyer.
  • Reply 67 of 109
    wnursewnurse Posts: 427member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by rickag View Post


    Under the specifications, Apple states,"Built-in rechargeable lithium ion battery:".



    Is this similar to reading the EULA?... you reveal yourself truly to be a geek.. wow, you read the specifications!!!... amazing...



    buzz!!!!!... that is not sufficient public disclosure.. espicially since you would have to buy the device to read the specifications!!...



    Please, on your way, stop and sleep at a holiday inn.. (i hear it does not make you a lawyer but you feel smarter)





    Next?.
  • Reply 68 of 109
    avoravor Posts: 44member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by wnurse View Post


    Is this similar to reading the EULA?... you reveal yourself truly to be a geek.. wow, you read the specifications!!!... amazing...



    buzz!!!!!... that is not sufficient public disclosure.. espicially since you would have to buy the device to read the specifications!!...



    Please, on your way, stop and sleep at a holiday inn.. (i hear it does not make you a lawyer but you feel smarter)





    Next?.



    I cannot tell if this is sarcasm or not. Regardless, here are the specs before the iPhone is bought: http://www.apple.com/iphone/specs.html



    Also, everywhere that sells the iPhone (except online outlets which is self explanatory) have display units. You can pick it up and notice the battery is not replaceable.



    If you skipped these two steps and *still* didn't figure it out, didn't like the phone, or just want something to complain about, you have thirty days to return the phone.



    IMO, that's a good three chances:

    1. Research

    2. Test

    3. Purchase (and return).



    Nothing is different about this product. Just because it is a high demand and popular product does not mean it must dummy down to society at every twist and turn. Funny thing is, that's what the iPhone ultimately does by making a smartphone usable by even the dumbest of people.



    I think I've figured out how this case ended up coming about. They should have built it with a more difficult learning curve to weed out some people



    For the record, I don't have one yet. I won't buy one until it goes on a faster network and has GPS. See what I did there? I have self restraint and am not buying something I don't like.
  • Reply 69 of 109
    citycity Posts: 522member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by wnurse View Post


    Is this similar to reading the EULA?... you reveal yourself truly to be a geek.. wow, you read the specifications!!!... amazing...



    buzz!!!!!... that is not sufficient public disclosure.. espicially since you would have to buy the device to read the specifications!!...



    Please, on your way, stop and sleep at a holiday inn.. (i hear it does not make you a lawyer but you feel smarter)





    Next?.



    A built-in battery is not a defect and not real estate, therefore no disclosure is necessary. Lots are parts are not user replaceable like the brake pads on my car. They are called "batteries", but your confusion seems to be that these are not the old style flashlight batteries that last a short time and required frequent replacment. They are modern energy cells and I don't want thm in my land fill either.
  • Reply 70 of 109
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by wnurse View Post


    The battery issue was not widely known (actually apple did not make a statement about the batteries and mom and pop do not read appleinsider) usually i bash apple because they do stupid greedy things (there is no doubt in my mind that apple can make a thin device with replaceable batteries.. the razr has replaceable batteries and that thing is pretty thin).. so anyone making that argument don't know what they are talking about. However, having said that..the only people with issues really are those that



    1. paid a termination fee to go to AT&T

    2. left their old carrier and switched.



    Perhaps this person is one of those people?. I know if i was a consumer that did not read appleinsider and wired news and switched to buy the iphone and found out that it's the gift that keeps giving apple, i'd be pissed. Now i don't want the phone and i can't get my termination fee back.. plus i would have to pay another termination fee to AT&T (why would i even want to stay with AT&T if i don't have the iphone?).



    The thing i think most people are missing is that discussion in a forum or article on a website does not substitute for official, legal disclosure by a company. Apple cannot claim cause some trade magazine pointed out the battery issue constitutes sufficient disclosure. You'd be amazed how many people do not read any techie magazines (my GF is one, and she wanted an iphone badly.. when i told her about the battery issue, she was very surprised, she had never heard about that.. suffice to say, she decided to hold off on getting the iphone).





    If you are going to mention the razr...Mention yes its thin and the battery is replaceable, but the razr doesnt connect to WI-FI, its doesnt play good quality movies, it doesnt hold 8GB of content, you cant check weather, stocks and get maps at a moment notice, you cant play youtube on it...HMMMMM.....Get your weight up and quit crying!!!!!!
  • Reply 71 of 109
    drjjonesdrjjones Posts: 162member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BuzDots View Post


    Q: What do have when a lawyer is buried up to his neck in wet cement?

    A: Not enough cement.



    Q: Did you hear they just released a new Barbie doll called "Divorced Barbie"?

    A: Yeah, it comes with half of Ken's things and alimony.



    Q: What's the problem with lawyer jokes?

    A: Lawyer's don't think they're funny, and no one else thinks they're jokes.



    Q: How many lawyers does it take to change a light bulb?

    A: Fifty four. Eight to argue, one to get a continuance, one to object, one to demur, two to research precedents, one to dictate a letter, one to stipulate, five to turn in their time cards, one to depose, one to write interrogatories, two to settle, one to order a secretary to change the bulb, and twenty-eight to bill for professional services.



    Q: Where can you find a good lawyer?

    A: At the city morgue.



    Q: What's the difference between a porcupine and a Mercedes Benz full of lawyers?

    A: The porcupine has pricks on the outside.



    Q: If you drop a snake and an attorney off the Empire State Building, which one hits first?

    A: Who cares?



    Q: How can you tell the difference between a dead skunk and a dead attorney on the road?

    A: The vultures aren't gagging over the skunk.



    Q: What's the difference between an attorney and a pit bull?

    A: Jewelry.



    Q: What do lawyers use for birth control?

    A: Their personalities.



    Q: What's the definition of mixed emotions?

    A: Watching your attorney drive over a cliff in your new Ferrari.



    Q: What's the definition of a lawyer?

    A: A mouth with a life support system.



    Q: What do you get when you cross a lawyer with a demon from hell?

    A: No changes occur.



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    A: God doesn't think he's an attorney.



    Q: How many lawyer jokes are there?

    A: ONE, all the rest are true.







    Q. What do you call a thousand lawyers at the bottom of the ocean?

    A . A good start.
  • Reply 72 of 109
    wnursewnurse Posts: 427member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Avor View Post


    I cannot tell if this is sarcasm or not. Regardless, here are the specs before the iPhone is bought: http://www.apple.com/iphone/specs.html



    Also, everywhere that sells the iPhone (except online outlets which is self explanatory) have display units. You can pick it up and notice the battery is not replaceable.



    If you skipped these two steps and *still* didn't figure it out, didn't like the phone, or just want something to complain about, you have thirty days to return the phone.



    IMO, that's a good three chances:

    1. Research

    2. Test

    3. Purchase (and return).



    Nothing is different about this product. Just because it is a high demand and popular product does not mean it must dummy down to society at every twist and turn. Funny thing is, that's what the iPhone ultimately does by making a smartphone usable by even the dumbest of people.



    I think I've figured out how this case ended up coming about. They should have built it with a more difficult learning curve to weed out some people



    For the record, I don't have one yet. I won't buy one until it goes on a faster network and has GPS. See what I did there? I have self restraint and am not buying something I don't like.



    Ok, you are all missing the point. Apple has to SUFFICIENTLY disclose that batteries are not user replaceable. (many people seem to be having a problem with the word sufficient)... go back and reread my post... did i say it was not mentioned anywhere?. No.. also saying built-in does not indicate whether battery is user replaceable or not. Yes, it's built in (what are the other option?? "built out", "does not come with batteries"???.) built-in does not infer non-user replaceable.

    I understand that you uber-geeks got it and knew ahead of time but this is still not sufficient disclosure.



    Also having 30 days to return the phone is irrelevant. Can i get my termination fee back?.. how about ability not only get my termination fee from my old carrier (which i might have paid) but not get charge a termination fee from AT&T when i now want to leave(remember, lots of people switched to AT&T just for the iphone.. no iphone, no interest in AT&T). Also, some people may have lost their number (not all numbers are portable)...



    Also the battery has nothing to do with the GUI.. so what if the phone is simple to use?.. what has that got to do with the battery?.



    Also glad you have self-restraint.. as if that is the issue. Did you restrain yourself cause u knew about the battery issue?. What if after you bought the phone, you discovered that apple had a secret, unknown feature that took your DNA or fingerprints.. would you still want it (or blame yourself for not exercising restraint on a product with a feature you were unaware of)?... are most mac fans this incapable thinking an issue through without insulting the intelligence the general public?.
  • Reply 73 of 109
    wnursewnurse Posts: 427member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by QuitCrying View Post


    If you are going to mention the razr...Mention yes its thin and the battery is replaceable, but the razr doesnt connect to WI-FI, its doesnt play good quality movies, it doesnt hold 8GB of content, you cant check weather, stocks and get maps at a moment notice, you cant play youtube on it...HMMMMM.....Get your weight up and quit crying!!!!!!





    <sarcasm> aah, yes cause a phone that can do all these things weigh more </sarcasm>.



    What, did it make your day to compare the iphone with the razr?. Gee, the iphone does not have a video recorder, it cannot cut and paste, it works on slower network..



    what's your comeback now?



    People, lets stick to the topic.. building a replaceable battery is not impossible, apple just chose not to do it.
  • Reply 74 of 109
    wnursewnurse Posts: 427member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by city View Post


    A built-in battery is not a defect and not real estate, therefore no disclosure is necessary. Lots are parts are not user replaceable like the brake pads on my car. They are called "batteries", but your confusion seems to be that these are not the old style flashlight batteries that last a short time and required frequent replacment. They are modern energy cells and I don't want thm in my land fill either.



    This is best response i have seen so far.. perhaps something apple can argue..

    but stating that people are stupid for not knowing the batteries were not replaceable would not win apple any favors in a court (i know if i was a juror, i would rule against them if their lawyer somehow implied that regular folks are stupid for not knowing in advance espicially since apple did not explicitly state that).



    Apple i suppose could argue precedent (although just cause you can't replace a microchip does not mean you shouldn't be able to replace a battery)
  • Reply 75 of 109
    citycity Posts: 522member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by wnurse View Post


    This is best response i have seen so far.. perhaps something apple can argue..

    but stating that people are stupid for not knowing the batteries were not replaceable would not win apple any favors in a court (i know if i was a juror, i would rule against them if their lawyer somehow implied that regular folks are stupid for not knowing in advance espicially since apple did not explicitly state that).



    Apple i suppose could argue precedent (although just cause you can't replace a microchip does not mean you shouldn't be able to replace a battery)



    Where does my post say or imply people are stupid? Most of us (me too) don't read the disclosues anyway. If we have a good product we don't sue over something minor and non life threatening like $200 in termination fees on a $1200 contact. It seems like a small claims court could handle it, if someone was really upset. Lifes too good and too short!
  • Reply 76 of 109
    wnursewnurse Posts: 427member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by parky View Post


    The real facts in this case are :-



    People will not run down their battery fully every day, lets say for the purpose of this exercise they use 50% of the battery every day (which is very quite heavy use).



    If they then charge the battery every night (therefore only using 50% of a charge cycle every night).

    That would give you 800 nights (2*400 full cycles) before the battery would only reach its 80% capacity. 800 nights is actually 2.19 years. Even after 2 years the battery would not need replacing.



    That is a worse case scenario as most people will not actually use 50% every day. If we reduce the use to 25% then the time goes to over 4 years before it gets to 80%.



    This is not hard to understand, why do these people try to sue.

    You really need a reality check in the USA!



    I run my phone down everyday. The problem is that the person is not suing on behalf on everyone or based on everyone else experience, he will be suing based on his experience so it's irrelevant that most people only use 50% of battery every day. Actually i am surprised a suit had not been brought earlier, in reference to the ipod. This policy apple have is begging for someone to sue them.
  • Reply 77 of 109
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by wnurse View Post


    No, it's a dumb analogy.. it's so stupid...



    Yes, hence the that concludes the comment.



  • Reply 78 of 109
    avoravor Posts: 44member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by wnurse View Post


    Ok, you are all missing the point. Apple has to SUFFICIENTLY disclose that batteries are not user replaceable. (many people seem to be having a problem with the word sufficient)



    Apple doesn't have to "sufficiently disclose" anything. That's just how the product is and they are not hiding it from anyone. Many watches have batteries that must be replaced by a professional; it is at the company's discretion on how to design their own products.



    Quote:

    Also having 30 days to return the phone is irrelevant. Can i get my termination fee back?.. how about ability not only get my termination fee from my old carrier (which i might have paid) but not get charge a termination fee from AT&T when i now want to leave(remember, lots of people switched to AT&T just for the iphone.. no iphone, no interest in AT&T). Also, some people may have lost their number (not all numbers are portable)



    That's the kind of crap you hope doesn't happen to you when you jump the boat. I'm not trying to sound mean and careless about people in general, but that's the risk you take when you live your life on whims and no forethought into your actions. Sometimes you get excellent results and other times you get the shaft.



    Quote:

    Also the battery has nothing to do with the GUI.. so what if the phone is simple to use?.. what has that got to do with the battery?.



    It was a silly joke implying the simple UI attracted dumb to the phone and said people are executing this lawsuit.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by wnurse


    Also glad you have self-restraint.. as if that is the issue. Did you restrain yourself cause u knew about the battery issue?. What if after you bought the phone, you discovered that apple had a secret, unknown feature that took your DNA or fingerprints.. would you still want it (or blame yourself for not exercising restraint on a product with a feature you were unaware of)



    I previously stated why I didn't buy the phone: slow network and no GPS. The box or website didn't state it didn't have GPS, so maybe I should buy the phone and sue Apple.



    Also, a violation of human rights is not in the same ballpark as a non-serviceable battery But no, I probably would not want it.



    Quote:

    are most mac fans this incapable thinking an issue through without insulting the intelligence the general public?.



    I'm not a blind Apple fan; I just hate all the frivolous lawsuits people are filing against companies for BS reasons in hopes they'll pocket some cash. As many other people pointed out, other companies have released smart phones with non serviceable batteries and they have not been sued or had near a commotion about it (because it's not that big of a deal).



    People bought a product, as advertised, and are suing a company for a feature they think it should have.
  • Reply 79 of 109
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by wnurse View Post


    <sarcasm> aah, yes cause a phone that can do all these things weigh more </sarcasm>.



    What, did it make your day to compare the iphone with the razr?. Gee, the iphone does not have a video recorder, it cannot cut and paste, it works on slower network..



    what's your comeback now?



    People, lets stick to the topic.. building a replaceable battery is not impossible, apple just chose not to do it.







    First, I would take everything I mentioned over a video recorder and copy and pasting!!!! Second, for a first generation phone, I think Apple did a pretty good job for their FIRST phone, while everybody is comparing it to companies whos been making phone waaaaaaaaaaaay longer. Third, your probably one of those guys whose can have the perfect phone built to your needs and still find something wrong with it. And last I think Edge is pretty fast for a phone to load full webpages and accessing youtube and such.
  • Reply 80 of 109
    kendokakendoka Posts: 110member
    This class-action lawsuit (as most others) seems crazy.

    Is the American justice system really this bad?



    Have somebody sued Braun (and won) because their new shaver had non-replaceble batteries?
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