I'm pretty sure griffin was talking about bricks-and-mortar stores. My bet is that on this occasion, new iMacs are being shipped as we type to US Apple Stores around the country, ready to be put on display after the announcement is made. International stores are not normally "updated" so quickly.
I was talking to a loose lipped employee at a Apple Store a few weeks ago and he said product is shipped overnight to the locations in the midwest. There is honestly no product in their store the night before. He said the iPhones came in the first morning and they received two shipments a day both Fri. and Sat. He said that's the way it was with the updated MBP earlier this summer too.
Why? I don't feel like I need an external keyboard mouse or monitor. Sure the option of being able to do that on my MBP is appealing and I've given it some thought, but I find I don't really need to. Now I'm not editing movies in FCP or using any pro apps but any iLife app can be easily used with out all the external 'stuff'.
I'm not trying to be condescending, but have you used laptops for any extended period of time? I find the advantages greatly exceed the disadvantages. Especially now that they have desktop power.
Most people don't seem to want 15" or 17" screens anymore. At least not for a fixed location. That's why monitors are getting larger.
It's a fair question.
I don't know what you meant by "extended", but yes, I've used laptops for a few hours here and there. I've always felt cramped, and I'm not thrilled with the keyboard positioning.
I also don't like the fact that you can't have a separate adjustment for the spacing between you and the keyboard and monitor.
Let's say, almost desktop power. It's not quite there, even with the MBP, which is much more expensive. With the MB, it's not that close.
I have a 24" 1920 x 1200 monitor. I don't want that rez on a 17" screen, though I would take a higher one on my size screen, or a larger screen.
I am using an MB with a 22" display right now, and I can't say that I like the setup very much. I will actually buy a 24" iMac when the new model arrives, mainly for one reason: fan noise. The noise level of the MB compared to an iMac is worth the price alone. Add to that that I won't have to hook it up all the time, it requires less desk space, I get a better GPU, larger and faster built in HDD etc.
In fact, the only thing I do like about this setup compared to a desktop is that I can just pick it up and continue with my work someplace else. With an iMac + MB I'll have to sync the data everytime I'm going somewhere. But it'll be worth it.
I can say I understand your pain with cables which is why a dock would be so nice.
However, a MBP ($1999) + 24" Dell ($580) is cheaper than a MB ($1099) + iMac 24" ($1999) and my MBP is quiet except when I'm really pushing it. You only need to max out the ram on one box and when you are mobile you have a far more capable machine.
Connecting cables is somewhat less annoying than syncing files for me.
I'd rather have a MacBook and an iMac than have a MacBook Pro and have to dock it all the time to use it like a desktop... A dock doesn't seem very Apple-like.
The number of video cards, is, as I keep saying, not Apple's responsibility. They only supply them because Apple doesn't sell enough machines to get the interest of the card makers. I don't expect Apple to have a full line, though it would be nice.
Another factor regarding video cards is most likely the fact that an iMac can not handle most gaming cards because due to the heatsink/fan it requires alot of space not only because of size but heat. Also it appears that iMac only uses cards that do not require an extra power source.
You can't get performance with ony two inches of space, the heat issue alone would kill the machine.
It's kind of funny now that Best Buy is pushing Macs harder they list the Mac Pro under gaming systems along with higher end Gateway Fx and Velocity Micro systems. Its kind of funny when you see a Mac Pro for 2499.00 next to a Gateway with a Q6600, 3gigs of ram and a 8800gts card for 1799.00.
Another factor regarding video cards is most likely the fact that an iMac can not handle most gaming cards because due to the heatsink/fan it requires alot of space not only because of size but heat. Also it appears that iMac only uses cards that do not require an extra power source.
You can't get performance with ony two inches of space, the heat issue alone would kill the machine.
It's kind of funny now that Best Buy is pushing Macs harder they list the Mac Pro under gaming systems along with higher end Gateway Fx and Velocity Micro systems. Its kind of funny when you see a Mac Pro for 2499.00 next to a Gateway with a Q6600, 3gigs of ram and a 8800gts card for 1799.00.
You're right about the space and heat.
As far as comparing it to GTW, well, that's BB's choice. GTW makes cheap products that few considering a Mac Pro vs a PC would even think about getting. Apple wouldn't do that comparison. BOXX, and others of that ilk are a fairer comparison. The Mac Pro is a workstation. However, the price compares to that of Alien and Voodoo machines in the gaming market.
My best guesses for what'll be announced on Tuesday, August 7, at 10 AM PDT, 1 PM EDT. Apple store online will probably be closed during the announcements and will reopen after 2 PM EDT.
New iMacs:
Santa Rosa treatment for the AIO iMac:
Possible new case design
20-inch, 24-inch
2.2 and/or 2.4 GHz Core 2 Duo
4MB L2 cache
800 MHz FSB
1GB or 2GB memory standard
16x DL SuperDrive (Blu-ray option?)
NVIDIA GeForce 8600 GT graphics with 256MB SDRAM
AirPort Extreme 802.11g/n, Bluetooth 2.0 + EDR
New keyboard design
New Mac mini:
Santa Rosa treatment with 800 MHz FSB
1.8 or 2 GHz Core 2 Duo
Integrated Intel graphics
1GB memory
80GB or 120GB hard drive
8x DL SuperDrive
AirPort Extreme 802.11g/n, Bluetooth 2.0 + EDR
There's also the possibility of an announcement about new versions of iLife and iWork.
Extremely unlikely:
I'm not expecting any mention of Apple TV but it'd be nice if there were an announcement of an Apple Media Center, sort of an Apple TV Pro.
You're correct. The majority of MDC faculty is adjunct. And no, MDC doesn't furnish home computers to them or to full time faculty. Full time faculty instructors are given desktops at work. Adjuncts have access to computers all over the campus. I would imagine many of them use USB's to tote info home or they use the web to put info on their home computers.
Home computers they must own or cannot do work except in the office. I make decent money (more than the average full prof) but my home machines are a Quicksilver and a 1.4Ghz P4. Neither are actually connected because I do my work on my work laptop.
This means research papers, grant proposals, IRB proposals, along with software development work which does actually require a semi-decent machine and IT supplied software to VPN into our compute clusters. Were I a prof I would also add course work prep, class website development, class project reviews and so forth.
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This is so for full time or part time faculty. I use a 4 GB USB which is more than enough storage, so I don't need or want a laptop. I do all my work at the college or at home. I don't feel the need to stop at Starbucks on the way home and do work there. I would find that uncomfortable.
I work from the cafeteria, library, meeting rooms, conferences, hotel rooms, private homes, etc. On nice days I would meet folks outside. Starbucks is not the only mobile location possible and some folks LIKE working from Starbucks.
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I was not implying that anyone that uses laptops is too poor to afford "necessary equipment"?
You pulled that out of thin air. The comment you made about Harvard being smaller doesn't make sense. How did you make that comparison? As for FIU profs who travel carrying laptops. Yes, I'd expect them to.
The FIU profs whom I know don't travel enough to use laptops.
I still don't see how you made so many misinterpretations from my post? I was simply telling how MDC used computers and was not implying anything else. You twisted that into something you made up out of your own mind.
Say what? Misinterpretations?
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Since we have more than enough computers around campus available to all students and faculty, we don't require students to have their own computers.
Implication: If you don't have more than enough computers around campus you might require students to have their own laptops...like at Harvard which Bergermeister mentioned.
Do you believe Harvard has this policy because they don't have enough media labs and computers around their campus?
If not, then how does this sentence respond to his comment that top unis require incoming freshmen own laptops? Because the reason this policy seems to exist is these universities recognize that mobile computing is an important advantage to learning for their students.
A policy disagreement would sound like "we believe that laptops are a disruption in the classroom and prefer that classes that require computers use one of our many well equiped media/computer labs".
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Miami-Dade College is the largest college in the U.S. with 100, 000 or more enrollees according to the semester.
...
Granted (no pun), with tuition from so many students and state funding, the college has a large enough budget/income to have whatever equipment is needed and upgraded every few years. I would imagine that smaller colleges might have difficulties is supplying all necessary equipment to students and faculty.
Not much need for interpretation here: MDC has 100K students and a lot of money. MDC provides lots of desktops around campus and therefore no need for laptops (as this is both policy and your experience). Smaller colleges with less money might have "difficulties supplying necessary equipment".
Pulled what out of thin air? You say you are mystified as to why folks want laptops, that you know many faculty and staff and only one has a laptop. You say this is because of the excellent IT infrastructure at MDC that is possible by the $$$ from tuition and grants and therefore imply that reports from other academic institutions that have moved toward laptops do so because their infrastructure is not as complete as the one at MDC.
Come on. You've rejected the need for laptops based on your own perceptions and support that rejection with the assertion that because MDC is well equipped they've eliminated any advantage for mobile computing in favor of 4GB USB keys.
Never mind that it hasn't been until Core that we've had pretty decent mobile CPUs and MDC is using the fact that profs have to own a home machine to get work done at home to their advantage. If I were an assistant prof with 2 kids, mortgage in a large metro area and a family income of $50K I'd own a machine at home but its not too likely to be recent or high-end...probably something like a quicksilver or aging P4.
A MBP would certainly represent more compute power. Heck a MB represents more compute power.
According to your previous statements, a MBP, plus the other elements. That changes the game entirely.
Fine...a MBP is still cheaper than a MB + iMac by $500.
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And, there will be NO dock. That's just your imagination right now.
So is the elimination of the iMac line. We're speaking in hypotheticals so it certainly isn't unfair to stipulate that the elimination of the desktop line is possible if Apple offered the full range of mobile accessories as other major manufacturers.
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You must do all of your figuring with the products that Apple does have, to be fair. You can't come out with an imaginary product to fill out your needs.
No sorry. You don't get to constrain the discussion so much that the only possible outcome is the same as your own based on your preconcieved notions.
Your statement was that without a desktop line Apple would go out of business. There was no stipulation or boundry that new items in the lineup could not replace those desktops as long as they aren't desktops. Accessories, phones, laptops, tablets are all fair game.
I conceeded that without the Mac Pro then Apple would be in trouble but that the iMac is expendible.
You can agree with that statement (which would meet your original criteria as the Mac Pro would remain a desktop workstation in the lineup) or you can disagree that the iMac is expendible. It appears you disagree that the iMac is expendible. Hence the further discussion.
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When I mentioned a mini/mid tower earlier, you chided me, because Apple doesn't have one. The same restriction holds for you.
I believe, and I can go back and look, that the comment about mid-towers was that Apple has lived without a mid-tower for so long that it is a clear indicator that it is not required in the lineup. Therefore any assertion that because 90% of the market uses mid-towers that one is required of a computer company is false because it is untrue now. Apple doesn't have one. It is a computer company.
Likewise I can make the assertion that a computer company without a desktop CAN exist because i can point to one that happens to be a top 5 manufacturer. You can quibble that it exists because Dell and HP makes desktops but you certainly cannot assert that Toshiba does not exist.
As far as comparing it to GTW, well, that's BB's choice. GTW makes cheap products that few considering a Mac Pro vs a PC would even think about getting. Apple wouldn't do that comparison. BOXX, and others of that ilk are a fairer comparison. The Mac Pro is a workstation. However, the price compares to that of Alien and Voodoo machines in the gaming market.
I agree about the gateway comparision I just thought it was funny that BB decided to group it that way.
In the long run I really don't think we are going to see that much of a change in the way of hardward Tuesday. I expect the new iMacs to have a new look but in the way of hardware the only real change I expect to see on the standard config is a Dx10 video card for those that want to boot into Vista.
I also agree with your side of the debate regarding moble computing that has been an age old argument that still has not come around. The best and worst thing that Apple did was convert to Intell because now it puts them on the same field as everyone else when it comes to hardware and people are going to expect them to keep pace on upgrades and price and its just not going to happen.
Apple needs to change regarding desktop computing or they have seen their high point.
I was almost finished with a long reply, when Safari crashed. Needless to say, I'm no going to attempt to duplicate it.
As you can expect that I had a response for all of your statements, you can properly assume that they disagree with most of what you've said.
I will assume that you made well thought out, reasoned, nee brilliant responses in disagreement. You can now assume that I have made razor sharp and devastating rebuttal to all of them leaving them in tatters.
Likewise I can make the assertion that a computer company without a desktop CAN exist because i can point to one that happens to be a top 5 manufacturer. You can quibble that it exists because Dell and HP makes desktops but you certainly cannot assert that Toshiba does not exist.
Yes they are a computer company but for many years a fairly poor one. There were many years where Apple could barely grab 2.6% market share.
Your Toshiba debate is invalid because they are not just a computer comany they are a fully invested electronics company, Sony the same situation. There is not a single tier 1 computer company that only invested in moble computing.
Only so many people can buy ipods per year, apple tv sucks and the iphone was a hit for about a week as expected.
Apple needs to keep pace with the rest of the world or they are going to fall back to the 2% market share days.
MDC is using the fact that profs have to own a home machine to get work done at home to their advantage. If I were an assistant prof with 2 kids, mortgage in a large metro area and a family income of $50K I'd own a machine at home but its not too likely to be recent or high-end...probably something like a quicksilver or aging P4.
Vinea
You're absolutely correct about that. AND, the college, of course, doesn't offer perks -vacation time, holidays,health insurance, etc. - to those adjunct profs. Further, it doesn't even have to pay half FICA, because adjuncts are not covered by Soc. Sec. Adjuncts pay into some stock investment program called TIAA-Cref. The college pays nothing. Adjuncts tell me that they could never retire on the minute am't their investments pay.
And when stock prices drop, like now, adjuncts are losing money.
This is the same type of program that the Federal Gov't. wants to foist on the US worker. He could possibly work all his life putting money into investments that would not fund his retirement. But that would be great for big business. They would be free from paying their half of FICA.
I'm sorry. I get carried away when I think about how the middle class is being squeezed. My bad.
Now you're just cheating, you go on and on post after post about expanding the mbp and when example time comes you use the macbook.
Yes, I'm just cheating. Of course, if the MB had Santa Rosa, an ExpressCard slot and/or a dock I wouldn't need to cheat.
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You KNOW that no model of macbook has anything on the 24" imac so why use that as your basis? Hmmm...to try and justify your cost arguement, which is probably the biggest whole in your arguement altogether.
Yes, cost is a weakness. But the iMac is still a crappy bang for the buck machine. A MB and a 24" monitor is an 80% solution. The cost delta between a MBP + monitor and a iMac 24" is $500.
/shrug
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Also who do you want to suggest is going to tell customers to get logitech and dell parts, apple's online site or apple store employees?
I would expect that folks that buy the ACDs today would continue to buy them. Folks that buy Crucial RAM and 3rd party monitors would continue to do so.
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What your suggesting may be ok for some people (assuming that gpu difference and HD space mean nothing to you) but you're making the same mistake that tons of people on the site always seem to make: Most people are not tech savy or resourseful.
Then they pay more. Just like those that buy RAM from Apple. This is NOT a downside for Apple unless it significantly constrains their growth. Probably it requires some juggling of ACD pricing if they want to dump the iMac which i presume the would NOT do unless it was economically reasonable to do so.
But assuming that they will not eliminate the iMac does not equate to they CANNOT eliminate the iMac and survive.
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And you think most people will do all that by themselves making desktops pointless? Wow.
I think that if Apple dumps the iMac in favor of only a laptop consumer line they would MAKE it easy to attach external devices and/or move most of what users want out of computing and into consumer electronics.
From a cost perspective, Santa Rosa in the MB would go a long way in closing that gap.
Today [Monday] is the day for the traditional elevator/crate/chinese factor photo if we're going to get one. We might have to just settle for the quickly becoming traditional AppleInsider report on what's going down and precise specs. In either case it'll certainly be amusing.
Yes they are a computer company but for many years a fairly poor one. There were many years where Apple could barely grab 2.6% market share.
Your Toshiba debate is invalid because they are not just a computer comany they are a fully invested electronics company, Sony the same situation. There is not a single tier 1 computer company that only invested in moble computing.
Tier 1 does not include a Top 5 worldwide manufacturer because they make other stuff besides computers?
Apple isn't just a computer company anymore either regardless of what you personally think of aTV and the iPhone. Dropping "computer" from their name is a big hint I suppose.
Gee and HP makes printers, PDAs, calculators, TVs, digital cameras and scanners. Have to eliminate them as Tier 1 computer company as well. Heck, now that we've eliminated #2, #4 and #5 that leaves whom? Dell and Gateway as the only Tier 1 computer makers.
Oh please. What? Are you going to also say that neither Sony or MS qualifies as Tier 1 console makers and only Nintendo should count?
What do you think the chances are Apple will announce the replacement for the 12" PowerBook at the Tuesday event?
Low, because I really want one.
Apple seems to be in a 12 month cycle of not giving me anything I want. Even the iPhone announcement was a bust because I'm not currently in the US (although I do have one - it's just being used as a glorified iPod with no cell service).
Probably like you, I once had a PowerBook G4 12", and replaced it with a black MacBook 13" - Apple's supposed replacement. But it's not really, for several reasons of which the extra couple of inches sticking out is a big one, and the plastic finish another.
I have Alu case envy, but don't want the extra bulk of a 15" MBP to carry around, especially as a laptop is a satellite computer for me: I have a quad core, four hard drive, 8GB Mac Pro to do "real" computing on.
I only hope the demise of the ~12" "pro" laptop line is to eventually make way for an ultralite. That would suit me, but again I doubt it will happen Tues because Apple has committed to p***ing me off for the next 6 month at least!
I'm predicting a bland, boring and thoroughly uninteresting iMac product rev this Tues. Which is why I'm only checking AppleInsider every 20 mins.
And I'll tell you why. When you want to use a laptop as a desktop replacement, I see several problems.
Macbook White
Core 2 duo 2.16
1GB ram
120GB HD
Mini DVI-DVI adapter (for display)
8X SuperDrive
Intel GMA950
AppleCare
$1,567
+ Dell 24" monitor (I didn't look this up, so I will assume the $480 that you said)
+ External HD FW400 (for arguments sake around $150, and given the plethora of ExtHDs and my dearth of time, I will not go into specs and prices)
$2,197
24" iMac
Core 2 duo 2.16
1GB ram
250GB HD
8X SuperDrive
NVIDIA GeForce 7300 GT 128MB SDRAM
AppleCare
$2,168
the iMac is cheaper, has better specs(and by tomorrow even better), less cables necessary, more ports, better reliability, AC will cover the screen, and more. Also, if you get a student discount, you would get more off the iMac since all of it is to apple as opposed to the $1,567, widening the price gap (by at least a little).
Now you say, Ah, but you forget, you can also use the macbook as a notebook whereas it is not so with the iMac. This is true, but you would also be changing your argument from a MB as a desktop replacement to a MB as a, well... MB.
Comments
I'm pretty sure griffin was talking about bricks-and-mortar stores. My bet is that on this occasion, new iMacs are being shipped as we type to US Apple Stores around the country, ready to be put on display after the announcement is made. International stores are not normally "updated" so quickly.
I was talking to a loose lipped employee at a Apple Store a few weeks ago and he said product is shipped overnight to the locations in the midwest. There is honestly no product in their store the night before. He said the iPhones came in the first morning and they received two shipments a day both Fri. and Sat. He said that's the way it was with the updated MBP earlier this summer too.
Why? I don't feel like I need an external keyboard mouse or monitor. Sure the option of being able to do that on my MBP is appealing and I've given it some thought, but I find I don't really need to. Now I'm not editing movies in FCP or using any pro apps but any iLife app can be easily used with out all the external 'stuff'.
I'm not trying to be condescending, but have you used laptops for any extended period of time? I find the advantages greatly exceed the disadvantages. Especially now that they have desktop power.
Most people don't seem to want 15" or 17" screens anymore. At least not for a fixed location. That's why monitors are getting larger.
It's a fair question.
I don't know what you meant by "extended", but yes, I've used laptops for a few hours here and there. I've always felt cramped, and I'm not thrilled with the keyboard positioning.
I also don't like the fact that you can't have a separate adjustment for the spacing between you and the keyboard and monitor.
Let's say, almost desktop power. It's not quite there, even with the MBP, which is much more expensive. With the MB, it's not that close.
I have a 24" 1920 x 1200 monitor. I don't want that rez on a 17" screen, though I would take a higher one on my size screen, or a larger screen.
I am using an MB with a 22" display right now, and I can't say that I like the setup very much. I will actually buy a 24" iMac when the new model arrives, mainly for one reason: fan noise. The noise level of the MB compared to an iMac is worth the price alone. Add to that that I won't have to hook it up all the time, it requires less desk space, I get a better GPU, larger and faster built in HDD etc.
In fact, the only thing I do like about this setup compared to a desktop is that I can just pick it up and continue with my work someplace else. With an iMac + MB I'll have to sync the data everytime I'm going somewhere. But it'll be worth it.
I can say I understand your pain with cables which is why a dock would be so nice.
However, a MBP ($1999) + 24" Dell ($580) is cheaper than a MB ($1099) + iMac 24" ($1999) and my MBP is quiet except when I'm really pushing it. You only need to max out the ram on one box and when you are mobile you have a far more capable machine.
Connecting cables is somewhat less annoying than syncing files for me.
Vinea
The number of video cards, is, as I keep saying, not Apple's responsibility. They only supply them because Apple doesn't sell enough machines to get the interest of the card makers. I don't expect Apple to have a full line, though it would be nice.
Another factor regarding video cards is most likely the fact that an iMac can not handle most gaming cards because due to the heatsink/fan it requires alot of space not only because of size but heat. Also it appears that iMac only uses cards that do not require an extra power source.
You can't get performance with ony two inches of space, the heat issue alone would kill the machine.
It's kind of funny now that Best Buy is pushing Macs harder they list the Mac Pro under gaming systems along with higher end Gateway Fx and Velocity Micro systems. Its kind of funny when you see a Mac Pro for 2499.00 next to a Gateway with a Q6600, 3gigs of ram and a 8800gts card for 1799.00.
Another factor regarding video cards is most likely the fact that an iMac can not handle most gaming cards because due to the heatsink/fan it requires alot of space not only because of size but heat. Also it appears that iMac only uses cards that do not require an extra power source.
You can't get performance with ony two inches of space, the heat issue alone would kill the machine.
It's kind of funny now that Best Buy is pushing Macs harder they list the Mac Pro under gaming systems along with higher end Gateway Fx and Velocity Micro systems. Its kind of funny when you see a Mac Pro for 2499.00 next to a Gateway with a Q6600, 3gigs of ram and a 8800gts card for 1799.00.
You're right about the space and heat.
As far as comparing it to GTW, well, that's BB's choice. GTW makes cheap products that few considering a Mac Pro vs a PC would even think about getting. Apple wouldn't do that comparison. BOXX, and others of that ilk are a fairer comparison. The Mac Pro is a workstation. However, the price compares to that of Alien and Voodoo machines in the gaming market.
New iMacs:
Santa Rosa treatment for the AIO iMac:
Possible new case design
20-inch, 24-inch
2.2 and/or 2.4 GHz Core 2 Duo
4MB L2 cache
800 MHz FSB
1GB or 2GB memory standard
16x DL SuperDrive (Blu-ray option?)
NVIDIA GeForce 8600 GT graphics with 256MB SDRAM
AirPort Extreme 802.11g/n, Bluetooth 2.0 + EDR
New keyboard design
New Mac mini:
Santa Rosa treatment with 800 MHz FSB
1.8 or 2 GHz Core 2 Duo
Integrated Intel graphics
1GB memory
80GB or 120GB hard drive
8x DL SuperDrive
AirPort Extreme 802.11g/n, Bluetooth 2.0 + EDR
There's also the possibility of an announcement about new versions of iLife and iWork.
Extremely unlikely:
I'm not expecting any mention of Apple TV but it'd be nice if there were an announcement of an Apple Media Center, sort of an Apple TV Pro.
You're correct. The majority of MDC faculty is adjunct. And no, MDC doesn't furnish home computers to them or to full time faculty. Full time faculty instructors are given desktops at work. Adjuncts have access to computers all over the campus. I would imagine many of them use USB's to tote info home or they use the web to put info on their home computers.
Home computers they must own or cannot do work except in the office. I make decent money (more than the average full prof) but my home machines are a Quicksilver and a 1.4Ghz P4. Neither are actually connected because I do my work on my work laptop.
This means research papers, grant proposals, IRB proposals, along with software development work which does actually require a semi-decent machine and IT supplied software to VPN into our compute clusters. Were I a prof I would also add course work prep, class website development, class project reviews and so forth.
This is so for full time or part time faculty. I use a 4 GB USB which is more than enough storage, so I don't need or want a laptop. I do all my work at the college or at home. I don't feel the need to stop at Starbucks on the way home and do work there. I would find that uncomfortable.
I work from the cafeteria, library, meeting rooms, conferences, hotel rooms, private homes, etc. On nice days I would meet folks outside. Starbucks is not the only mobile location possible and some folks LIKE working from Starbucks.
I was not implying that anyone that uses laptops is too poor to afford "necessary equipment"?
You pulled that out of thin air. The comment you made about Harvard being smaller doesn't make sense. How did you make that comparison? As for FIU profs who travel carrying laptops. Yes, I'd expect them to.
The FIU profs whom I know don't travel enough to use laptops.
I still don't see how you made so many misinterpretations from my post? I was simply telling how MDC used computers and was not implying anything else. You twisted that into something you made up out of your own mind.
Say what? Misinterpretations?
Since we have more than enough computers around campus available to all students and faculty, we don't require students to have their own computers.
Implication: If you don't have more than enough computers around campus you might require students to have their own laptops...like at Harvard which Bergermeister mentioned.
Do you believe Harvard has this policy because they don't have enough media labs and computers around their campus?
If not, then how does this sentence respond to his comment that top unis require incoming freshmen own laptops? Because the reason this policy seems to exist is these universities recognize that mobile computing is an important advantage to learning for their students.
A policy disagreement would sound like "we believe that laptops are a disruption in the classroom and prefer that classes that require computers use one of our many well equiped media/computer labs".
Miami-Dade College is the largest college in the U.S. with 100, 000 or more enrollees according to the semester.
...
Granted (no pun), with tuition from so many students and state funding, the college has a large enough budget/income to have whatever equipment is needed and upgraded every few years. I would imagine that smaller colleges might have difficulties is supplying all necessary equipment to students and faculty.
Not much need for interpretation here: MDC has 100K students and a lot of money. MDC provides lots of desktops around campus and therefore no need for laptops (as this is both policy and your experience). Smaller colleges with less money might have "difficulties supplying necessary equipment".
Pulled what out of thin air? You say you are mystified as to why folks want laptops, that you know many faculty and staff and only one has a laptop. You say this is because of the excellent IT infrastructure at MDC that is possible by the $$$ from tuition and grants and therefore imply that reports from other academic institutions that have moved toward laptops do so because their infrastructure is not as complete as the one at MDC.
Come on. You've rejected the need for laptops based on your own perceptions and support that rejection with the assertion that because MDC is well equipped they've eliminated any advantage for mobile computing in favor of 4GB USB keys.
Never mind that it hasn't been until Core that we've had pretty decent mobile CPUs and MDC is using the fact that profs have to own a home machine to get work done at home to their advantage. If I were an assistant prof with 2 kids, mortgage in a large metro area and a family income of $50K I'd own a machine at home but its not too likely to be recent or high-end...probably something like a quicksilver or aging P4.
A MBP would certainly represent more compute power. Heck a MB represents more compute power.
Vinea
Ahem!
No!
According to your previous statements, a MBP, plus the other elements. That changes the game entirely.
Fine...a MBP is still cheaper than a MB + iMac by $500.
And, there will be NO dock. That's just your imagination right now.
So is the elimination of the iMac line. We're speaking in hypotheticals so it certainly isn't unfair to stipulate that the elimination of the desktop line is possible if Apple offered the full range of mobile accessories as other major manufacturers.
You must do all of your figuring with the products that Apple does have, to be fair. You can't come out with an imaginary product to fill out your needs.
No sorry. You don't get to constrain the discussion so much that the only possible outcome is the same as your own based on your preconcieved notions.
Your statement was that without a desktop line Apple would go out of business. There was no stipulation or boundry that new items in the lineup could not replace those desktops as long as they aren't desktops. Accessories, phones, laptops, tablets are all fair game.
I conceeded that without the Mac Pro then Apple would be in trouble but that the iMac is expendible.
You can agree with that statement (which would meet your original criteria as the Mac Pro would remain a desktop workstation in the lineup) or you can disagree that the iMac is expendible. It appears you disagree that the iMac is expendible. Hence the further discussion.
When I mentioned a mini/mid tower earlier, you chided me, because Apple doesn't have one. The same restriction holds for you.
I believe, and I can go back and look, that the comment about mid-towers was that Apple has lived without a mid-tower for so long that it is a clear indicator that it is not required in the lineup. Therefore any assertion that because 90% of the market uses mid-towers that one is required of a computer company is false because it is untrue now. Apple doesn't have one. It is a computer company.
Likewise I can make the assertion that a computer company without a desktop CAN exist because i can point to one that happens to be a top 5 manufacturer. You can quibble that it exists because Dell and HP makes desktops but you certainly cannot assert that Toshiba does not exist.
Vinea
You're right about the space and heat.
As far as comparing it to GTW, well, that's BB's choice. GTW makes cheap products that few considering a Mac Pro vs a PC would even think about getting. Apple wouldn't do that comparison. BOXX, and others of that ilk are a fairer comparison. The Mac Pro is a workstation. However, the price compares to that of Alien and Voodoo machines in the gaming market.
I agree about the gateway comparision I just thought it was funny that BB decided to group it that way.
In the long run I really don't think we are going to see that much of a change in the way of hardward Tuesday. I expect the new iMacs to have a new look but in the way of hardware the only real change I expect to see on the standard config is a Dx10 video card for those that want to boot into Vista.
I also agree with your side of the debate regarding moble computing that has been an age old argument that still has not come around. The best and worst thing that Apple did was convert to Intell because now it puts them on the same field as everyone else when it comes to hardware and people are going to expect them to keep pace on upgrades and price and its just not going to happen.
Apple needs to change regarding desktop computing or they have seen their high point.
I was almost finished with a long reply, when Safari crashed. Needless to say, I'm no going to attempt to duplicate it.
As you can expect that I had a response for all of your statements, you can properly assume that they disagree with most of what you've said.
I will assume that you made well thought out, reasoned, nee brilliant responses in disagreement. You can now assume that I have made razor sharp and devastating rebuttal to all of them leaving them in tatters.
You are right...this is much quicker.
Vinea
Likewise I can make the assertion that a computer company without a desktop CAN exist because i can point to one that happens to be a top 5 manufacturer. You can quibble that it exists because Dell and HP makes desktops but you certainly cannot assert that Toshiba does not exist.
Yes they are a computer company but for many years a fairly poor one. There were many years where Apple could barely grab 2.6% market share.
Your Toshiba debate is invalid because they are not just a computer comany they are a fully invested electronics company, Sony the same situation. There is not a single tier 1 computer company that only invested in moble computing.
Only so many people can buy ipods per year, apple tv sucks and the iphone was a hit for about a week as expected.
Apple needs to keep pace with the rest of the world or they are going to fall back to the 2% market share days.
MDC is using the fact that profs have to own a home machine to get work done at home to their advantage. If I were an assistant prof with 2 kids, mortgage in a large metro area and a family income of $50K I'd own a machine at home but its not too likely to be recent or high-end...probably something like a quicksilver or aging P4.
Vinea
You're absolutely correct about that. AND, the college, of course, doesn't offer perks -vacation time, holidays,health insurance, etc. - to those adjunct profs. Further, it doesn't even have to pay half FICA, because adjuncts are not covered by Soc. Sec. Adjuncts pay into some stock investment program called TIAA-Cref. The college pays nothing. Adjuncts tell me that they could never retire on the minute am't their investments pay.
And when stock prices drop, like now, adjuncts are losing money.
This is the same type of program that the Federal Gov't. wants to foist on the US worker. He could possibly work all his life putting money into investments that would not fund his retirement. But that would be great for big business. They would be free from paying their half of FICA.
I'm sorry. I get carried away when I think about how the middle class is being squeezed. My bad.
Now you're just cheating, you go on and on post after post about expanding the mbp and when example time comes you use the macbook.
Yes, I'm just cheating. Of course, if the MB had Santa Rosa, an ExpressCard slot and/or a dock I wouldn't need to cheat.
You KNOW that no model of macbook has anything on the 24" imac so why use that as your basis? Hmmm...to try and justify your cost arguement, which is probably the biggest whole in your arguement altogether.
Yes, cost is a weakness. But the iMac is still a crappy bang for the buck machine. A MB and a 24" monitor is an 80% solution. The cost delta between a MBP + monitor and a iMac 24" is $500.
/shrug
Also who do you want to suggest is going to tell customers to get logitech and dell parts, apple's online site or apple store employees?
I would expect that folks that buy the ACDs today would continue to buy them. Folks that buy Crucial RAM and 3rd party monitors would continue to do so.
What your suggesting may be ok for some people (assuming that gpu difference and HD space mean nothing to you) but you're making the same mistake that tons of people on the site always seem to make: Most people are not tech savy or resourseful.
Then they pay more. Just like those that buy RAM from Apple. This is NOT a downside for Apple unless it significantly constrains their growth. Probably it requires some juggling of ACD pricing if they want to dump the iMac which i presume the would NOT do unless it was economically reasonable to do so.
But assuming that they will not eliminate the iMac does not equate to they CANNOT eliminate the iMac and survive.
And you think most people will do all that by themselves making desktops pointless? Wow.
I think that if Apple dumps the iMac in favor of only a laptop consumer line they would MAKE it easy to attach external devices and/or move most of what users want out of computing and into consumer electronics.
From a cost perspective, Santa Rosa in the MB would go a long way in closing that gap.
Vinea
Yes they are a computer company but for many years a fairly poor one. There were many years where Apple could barely grab 2.6% market share.
Your Toshiba debate is invalid because they are not just a computer comany they are a fully invested electronics company, Sony the same situation. There is not a single tier 1 computer company that only invested in moble computing.
Tier 1 does not include a Top 5 worldwide manufacturer because they make other stuff besides computers?
Apple isn't just a computer company anymore either regardless of what you personally think of aTV and the iPhone. Dropping "computer" from their name is a big hint I suppose.
Gee and HP makes printers, PDAs, calculators, TVs, digital cameras and scanners. Have to eliminate them as Tier 1 computer company as well. Heck, now that we've eliminated #2, #4 and #5 that leaves whom? Dell and Gateway as the only Tier 1 computer makers.
Oh please. What? Are you going to also say that neither Sony or MS qualifies as Tier 1 console makers and only Nintendo should count?
Vinea
What do you think the chances are Apple will announce the replacement for the 12" PowerBook at the Tuesday event?
Low, because I really want one.
Apple seems to be in a 12 month cycle of not giving me anything I want. Even the iPhone announcement was a bust because I'm not currently in the US (although I do have one - it's just being used as a glorified iPod with no cell service).
Probably like you, I once had a PowerBook G4 12", and replaced it with a black MacBook 13" - Apple's supposed replacement. But it's not really, for several reasons of which the extra couple of inches sticking out is a big one, and the plastic finish another.
I have Alu case envy, but don't want the extra bulk of a 15" MBP to carry around, especially as a laptop is a satellite computer for me: I have a quad core, four hard drive, 8GB Mac Pro to do "real" computing on.
I only hope the demise of the ~12" "pro" laptop line is to eventually make way for an ultralite. That would suit me, but again I doubt it will happen Tues because Apple has committed to p***ing me off for the next 6 month at least!
I'm predicting a bland, boring and thoroughly uninteresting iMac product rev this Tues. Which is why I'm only checking AppleInsider every 20 mins.
And I'll tell you why. When you want to use a laptop as a desktop replacement, I see several problems.
Macbook White
Core 2 duo 2.16
1GB ram
120GB HD
Mini DVI-DVI adapter (for display)
8X SuperDrive
Intel GMA950
AppleCare
$1,567
+ Dell 24" monitor (I didn't look this up, so I will assume the $480 that you said)
+ External HD FW400 (for arguments sake around $150, and given the plethora of ExtHDs and my dearth of time, I will not go into specs and prices)
$2,197
24" iMac
Core 2 duo 2.16
1GB ram
250GB HD
8X SuperDrive
NVIDIA GeForce 7300 GT 128MB SDRAM
AppleCare
$2,168
the iMac is cheaper, has better specs(and by tomorrow even better), less cables necessary, more ports, better reliability, AC will cover the screen, and more. Also, if you get a student discount, you would get more off the iMac since all of it is to apple as opposed to the $1,567, widening the price gap (by at least a little).
Now you say, Ah, but you forget, you can also use the macbook as a notebook whereas it is not so with the iMac. This is true, but you would also be changing your argument from a MB as a desktop replacement to a MB as a, well... MB.