Apple's iLife '08 adds major new version of iPhoto and iMovie

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  • Reply 41 of 85
    addaboxaddabox Posts: 12,660member
    Completely infuriating. Makes me worry what is going on at Apple-- I've never seen this kind of sharp reduction in functionality in a software update from them. Ever.



    The whole "this dude wanted to make a movie super fast and we were all like, 'cool, that rules, let's call it the new iMovie' story is sort of scary. iMovie is a core consumer app on the Mac, there should be some, like, you know, planning and coherence involved in updating it. It's not some orphaned also-ran that nobody uses,



    I've never subscribed to the "Apple holds you in contempt because they won't make or do x thing I think they should" line of reasoning, but with this release of iMovie they are truly saying "We expect our customers to just throw movies together without much thought at all and feel that they value speed and gee whiz UI over functionality and control."



    And that, I'm afraid, is something very much like contempt.
  • Reply 42 of 85
    brussellbrussell Posts: 9,812member
    Apple has decided to allow people to download iMovie 6 HD (the previous version) for free. It looks like they're aware of the current iMovie users being ticked off. Apparently, there's no more plug-in architecture either, and all the "video FX" are gone. I was really expecting to see the fake blue screen and other video effects that are going to appear in Leopard iChat/Photobooth. Maybe when Leopard comes out.



    The business about "a video engineer going scuba diving" is such a transparent cover story. How often do they tell the genesis of a program like that? But what are they going to say, "we wanted to limit iMovie to better differentiate it from our pro apps."



    But I want to withhold judgment. They might even have good, non-cynical justification: I remember initially using iMovie a few years ago, and it did have a fairly steep learning curve for that type of app. After using it for a few projects, though, you quickly realize that it's quite powerful. Perhaps with this version, more people will be able to make movies easily, even if the finer editing and other functionality is gone.
  • Reply 43 of 85
    rtxrtx Posts: 23member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BRussell View Post


    Apple has decided to allow people to download iMovie 6 HD (the previous version) for free.



    Wow, that's pretty amazing they're doing that.



    I can absolutely see how the new Imovie could make it easier for total newbies like grandma to make simple videos - i don't think its all doom and gloom like most others. I think it will be much easier for these people.



    HOWEVER - i definitely understand about imovie 6 being a useful almost-pro app, that they took that away.



    I'm a music guy, so I look at the parallels to Garageband. In the new version they obviously wanted to make it easier for non-musicians - so they ADDED Magic, while ALSO adding some pretty useful "pro" features such as effects automation and multi-take capability.



    It is interesting that they didn't just ADD this new mode to iMovie. Having two different iMovies, for different audiences, is very un-Apple-like.



    Could be many things - internal disagreements, wanted to differentiate from FCExpress (the new version corresponding to FC Studio 2 hasnt been released yet, has it?). Perhaps they wanted/needed a clean break from the iMovie 6 codebase for technical reasons. Or they realized that the iMovie 6 UI simply wasn't doing it for their target market, in this age of Youtube. Who knows?



    I would expect the new iMovie to grow some of the missing features over time.
  • Reply 44 of 85
    addaboxaddabox Posts: 12,660member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BRussell View Post


    Apple has decided to allow people to download iMovie 6 HD (the previous version) for free. It looks like they're aware of the current iMovie users being ticked off. Apparently, there's no more plug-in architecture either, and all the "video FX" are gone. I was really expecting to see the fake blue screen and other video effects that are going to appear in Leopard iChat/Photobooth. Maybe when Leopard comes out.



    The business about "a video engineer going scuba diving" is such a transparent cover story. How often do they tell the genesis of a program like that? But what are they going to say, "we wanted to limit iMovie to better differentiate it from our pro apps."



    But I want to withhold judgment. They might even have good, non-cynical justification: I remember initially using iMovie a few years ago, and it did have a fairly steep learning curve for that type of app. After using it for a few projects, though, you quickly realize that it's quite powerful. Perhaps with this version, more people will be able to make movies easily, even if the finer editing and other functionality is gone.



    Yep, looks like they decided that iMovie was poaching Final Cut Express sales.



    Maybe they'll drop the price of FCE now, but that still doesn't compensate for the loss of a bone simple but powerful video editing app that could be used for all those "semi-pro" projects that happen for in-house business and education users.



    Best we can hope for: Apple gets inundated with indignant iMovie "power users" and adds back in a timeline with multi-track audio.



    The loss of a plug-in architecture and video fx makes me very, very nervous, regarding the direction Apple is heading. More functionality with more extensibility, guys, not less and less.



    Presenting iLife '10: you can learn it in 15 seconds because that's how long it takes to find out that it doesn't do anything at all but move images from your hard drive around on your screen while playing on-the-fly generated ambient tracks and murmuring your name over and over again.
  • Reply 45 of 85
    SpamSandwichSpamSandwich Posts: 30,989member
    I'm pretty sure FCE will receive a makeover as well to dumb it down slightly, but keep some of the iMovie innovations.
  • Reply 46 of 85
    I agree. I think the whole diver story was contrived. I believe this version of iMovie is done to counter Silverlight by Microsoft. I like iLife 06 alot and I will enjoy using iLife 08

    even more....it seems as though everyone is racing to join/compete with the youTube insanity.



    I cannot wait to get my copy of Leopard and iWork!
  • Reply 47 of 85
    addaboxaddabox Posts: 12,660member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post


    I'm pretty sure FCE will receive a makeover as well to dumb it down slightly, but keep some of the iMovie innovations.



    Possibly, but they'd need to cut the price to something like $59, and even then a forced migration never goes down well.
  • Reply 48 of 85
    brussellbrussell Posts: 9,812member
    Yeah, addabox, you were absolutely right from the beginning. I just assumed that they wouldn't take out existing functionality. Oops.



    I'm still not sure that the balance of functionality/ease for iMovie is wrong. I use it for home videos and my third-grade daughter has used it several times for school projects, and I'm hoping that for our purposes it may actually be an improvement. But it sounds like a lot of people may continue to use the old version.
  • Reply 49 of 85
    trumptmantrumptman Posts: 16,454member
    I really enjoyed the previous iMovie and had done several projects on it. Several of the featured "omitted" from the new version are items I know I have used.



    Why does Apple do this? Why is it so hard to make a leap forward without tossing out functionality and hammering us into some sort of template user. Apple did this with Appleworks as well. iWork is now ending up more powerful, but tossed the incredibly powerful frame-based approach.



    I'm sure this iMovie will be more powerful as long as you stay within the box it imposes. Too bad the last iMovie was great at making you realize there was no box.



    Nick
  • Reply 50 of 85
    slackulaslackula Posts: 262member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BRussell View Post


    Yeah, addabox, you were absolutely right from the beginning. I just assumed that they wouldn't take out existing functionality. Oops.



    I'm still not sure that the balance of functionality/ease for iMovie is wrong. I use it for home videos and my third-grade daughter has used it several times for school projects, and I'm hoping that for our purposes it may actually be an improvement. But it sounds like a lot of people may continue to use the old version.



    BRussell, I totally agree.



    I have a very successful side business of making wedding day movies and burning them on DVDs for clients. I, like most people, am always looking forward to Apple's newest software. But I think I will pass on this version of iMovie for now. I own Final Cut Pro 4, but never really learned how to effectively use it as iMovie plus some plug-ins from Gee Three have always beautifully and simply allowed me to create my wedding day films.



    The one thing about iLife '08 which does catch my interest is the "Professional" quality encoding option in the newest version of iDVD. I have noticed on some DVDs where I push them to the 2-hour limit that some slight "pixelization" comes and goes from the mid-point of the DVD on. Clients neveer seem to notice this, but I do. Perhaps the "Professional" quality encoding option would rectify this. The only problem with that would be that I would definitely need a new machine as I am still editing on--GULP--my 4 1/2 year old 1Ghz iMac G4 with 1 gig of RAM. When ready to encode an hour and 55 minute wedding video, I actually let it run overnight as it takes about 12 hours to encode....
  • Reply 51 of 85
    SpamSandwichSpamSandwich Posts: 30,989member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Slackula View Post


    BRussell, I totally agree.



    I have a very successful side business of making wedding day movies and burning them on DVDs for clients. I, like most people, am always looking forward to Apple's newest software. But I think I will pass on this version of iMovie for now. I own Final Cut Pro 4, but never really learned how to effectively use it as iMovie plus some plug-ins from Gee Three have always beautifully and simply allowed me to create my wedding day films.



    The one thing about iLife '08 which does catch my interest is the "Professional" quality encoding option in the newest version of iDVD. I have noticed on some DVDs where I push them to the 2-hour limit that some slight "pixelization" comes and goes from the mid-point of the DVD on. Clients neveer seem to notice this, but I do. Perhaps the "Professional" quality encoding option would rectify this. The only problem with that would be that I would definitely need a new machine as I am still editing on--GULP--my 4 1/2 year old 1Ghz iMac G4 with 1 gig of RAM. When ready to encode an hour and 55 minute wedding video, I actually let it run overnight as it takes about 12 hours to encode....



    You and your business could benefit from an upgrade of some kind... Even an iMac would make a huge difference in your time spent.
  • Reply 52 of 85
    elrothelroth Posts: 1,201member
    After playing with iMovie 08 in the Apple Store, I've found that you cannot edit frame-by-frame. There appears to be no way to stop a video at the exact frame you want, or move the playhead a single frame at a time (actually, there isn't a "playhead" in the normal sense). The help files say you can "extend" a starting or stopping point "a few frames at a time" by clicking a button. In the Preferences, however, there is a setting for the "extend" button - the shortest duration you can extend is 1/2 second - 15 frames!



    You can change the duration of fades, but only for a whole movie - all the fades in a single movie will be the same length - no exceptions.



    Sound is not very adjustable, as people have said. You can add one track of sound, but can't fade it in and out where you want.



    Apple should move that engineer who came up with this application to another department - he shows he doesn't care about exacting standards (like going to a specific frame - for him, being "in the neighborhood" is good enough). I don't think that's a good quality for an engineer (if it were an Apple receptionist who came up with this I would say it's great).
  • Reply 53 of 85
    SpamSandwichSpamSandwich Posts: 30,989member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by elroth View Post


    After playing with iMovie 08 in the Apple Store, I've found that you cannot edit frame-by-frame. There appears to be no way to stop a video at the exact frame you want, or move the playhead a single frame at a time (actually, there isn't a "playhead" in the normal sense). The help files say you can "extend" a starting or stopping point "a few frames at a time" by clicking a button. In the Preferences, however, there is a setting for the "extend" button - the shortest duration you can extend is 1/2 second - 15 frames!



    You can change the duration of fades, but only for a whole movie - all the fades in a single movie will be the same length - no exceptions.



    Sound is not very adjustable, as people have said. You can add one track of sound, but can't fade it in and out where you want.



    Apple should move that engineer who came up with this application to another department - he shows he doesn't care about exacting standards (like going to a specific frame - for him, being "in the neighborhood" is good enough). I don't think that's a good quality for an engineer (if it were an Apple receptionist who came up with this I would say it's great).



    Y'know, this doesn't sound accurate. In the presentation, you can view clips in a variety of ways, including frame by frame. Correct me if I'm wrong, here.
  • Reply 54 of 85
    elrothelroth Posts: 1,201member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by admactanium View Post


    here's a picture of it. i'll check tomorrow as my brother just picked it up today and installed it but he's at work tonight.







    That's not a timeline icon. It's for video adjustments (exposure, etc.). There is also a Ken Burns effect available, though I'm not sure it's the same as in '06.
  • Reply 55 of 85
    elrothelroth Posts: 1,201member
    drogers above says you can do frame-accurate editing.



    I couldn't find it, however - the help files say only that you can extend the start and stop points "a few frames at a time". I hope he's right, but I haven't seen anyone else confirm it, or tell how it might be done.
  • Reply 56 of 85
    imacfpimacfp Posts: 750member
    I use iMovie a lot and I can't say if the new version is good or bad, but I do worry about not being able to fine tune the movie. Of course I also have limited time to make movies so it might speed up the process. A movie I never get done is totally worthless. I'd love to know what the real story behind these changes are. I did like iPhoto though, but I the lack of a real iDVD update and Jobs' seeming dismisal of making DVDs irked me a bit. I don't have .Mac, a video iPod, nor would I post movies on YouTube. I make DVDs. That's how I share my movies.
  • Reply 57 of 85
    brussellbrussell Posts: 9,812member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by imacFP View Post


    I did like iPhoto though, but I the lack of a real iDVD update and Jobs' seeming dismisal of making DVDs irked me a bit. I don't have .Mac, a video iPod, nor would I post movies on YouTube. I make DVDs. That's how I share my movies.



    I've heard people make generally positive comments about the new iDVD, mainly due to new encoding functions that will fit more and/or increase quality. It's not a total re-write like iMovie, but maybe you should count your blessings on that front.
  • Reply 58 of 85
    imacfpimacfp Posts: 750member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BRussell View Post


    I've heard people make generally positive comments about the new iDVD, mainly due to new encoding functions that will fit more and/or increase quality. It's not a total re-write like iMovie, but maybe you should count your blessings on that front.



    I guess you're right. Like I said, this update might be good for me because in the past I've taken so long to do movies and this might speed up the process. My movies got pretty complex but I don't think my wife or the grandparents really cared. (That's not the right way to put it; they're not tech people so anything I do impresses them. ) They just wanted to see the baby which is natural I guess. My wife still doesn't toally understand why I need this update.
  • Reply 59 of 85
    addaboxaddabox Posts: 12,660member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BRussell View Post


    I've heard people make generally positive comments about the new iDVD, mainly due to new encoding functions that will fit more and/or increase quality. It's not a total re-write like iMovie, but maybe you should count your blessings on that front.



    Yeah, I caught that. At some point Jobs said something like "some people still like to make DVDs", like he was talking about floppy discs and Apple was being magnanimous to indulge this eccentricity.



    DVDs are still far and away the major distribution medium for all kinds of video. Does Jobs think that when a high-school teacher makes a video of the school play, or a wedding videographer provides a finished product to a client, or they put together that safety video at Acme, that anyone wants to use iPods or hard drives or the net to move that stuff around and show it? Maybe he imagines that there is an Apple computer in every room in America talking to the Apple TV that is attached to every display device?



    Thinking more about the new iMovie, the thing that galls me the most is how the vetting process must have gone. Surely there were plenty of people within Apple who realized that dropping so much fine control and functionality would piss off a lot of customers, which means they ultimately didn't care-- probably because they figure their current customers are locked in and they want to catch the eye of PC users.



    And considering that it would have been so easy to keep the editing tools there, and just hide them behind an "advanced" setting...... and considering that such a setting, plus the truly pretty great new stuff, would have made the new iMovie totally kick-ass, instead of a kick in the ass....



    Just, aaarrrrrrgggghhhhhh.
  • Reply 60 of 85
    I use the sound tools in the current iMovie all the time.

    Frequently lowering or dropping the audio on the video clips to hide unwanted noises or bringing audio levels up in small spots to help with a poor sound quality.



    I also like to fade songs in and out and even crossfade from one song to another.

    I'm worried I wont' be able to do any of this easily with the new iMovie.



    I really don't want to buy FC or another movie program.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by addabox View Post


    OK, I've watched most of the iMovie tutorial videos on the Apple site, and I have to say, while some of the interface is terrific, they've made it unusable for a lot of the people that use it.



    There doesn't appear to be anyway to adjust a sound clip beyond louder of softer for the whole clip. This is a huge reduction in functionality, and actually sort of insane.



    As is making the only control over the relative volume of tracks a button that says "reduce volume of other tracks".



    At least the phrasing of that implies you can do more than one track (beyond the sound recorded with the video) at a time, because watching how things are layed out it kind of looks like you can't.



    Everything is "drag the sound onto the clip and watch were you want it start, then drop it. If you want to adjust the volume, move the slider left or right."



    And, no, there isn't frame accurate info in the clip scrub, time gets displayed in tenths of a second.



    This is looking sort of like the price and capacity delta between the iMac and the Pro-- to get even a modicum of control over even simple video projects, I have to step up to FCP. iMovie has been dumbed down to the point of crippling it compared to its previous capabilities (although I realize that it will work just fine for many people).



    Really, the more I look at this, the more it pisses me off. Why not leave timeline stuff in there for people who want it, and hide it in a drop down menu, if it is deemed confusing to the average user?



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