Gotta say, Numbers and its unique re-implementation of the boring spreadsheet we've all come to love.... errr... learn how to deal with is quite nice (from the tutorials anyway) but I can immediately find one thing that is quite lacking with the iWork suite and the one thing that has made Office such a invasive success in the business market.
VisualBasic for Applications and to a lesser degree MS Forms... are the two things that allow Microsoft's Office suite 'be all it can be' and basically customizable to any situation and need imaginable... Almost never utilized in the home-setting except perhaps in the more geeky homes... mostly due to its fairly complex implementation... VBA is however used extensively in the business market and its what makes MS Office *indispensable* as an office tool.
Most will (successfully) argue that iWork isn't going after that particular market and I'd agree... but all the same, it sure would be nice to have some form of VBA & Forms available just the same...
Dave
I doubt if Apple would be quick to jump on using VBA, though. Maybe some other scripting languages. Has anyone tried using AppleScripts in the new Numbers?
VisualBasic for Applications and to a lesser degree MS Forms... are the two things that allow Microsoft's Office suite 'be all it can be' and basically customizable to any situation and need imaginable... VBA is however used extensively in the business market and its what makes MS Office *indispensable* as an office tool.
...
VBA is slated to be removed from the next version of Office:win.
VBA is slated to be removed from the next version of Office:win.
Yes yes yes...
Firstly I wasn't expecting Apple to actually USE VBA since as we all know MS will be depreciating it and I doubt it will be outright replaced since knowing MS those old VBA apps will continue to be supported in some way shape or form for a long time to come... Something MS is known for and is what I will assume adds quite a bit of their Application bloatyness.
Simply coming right out and saying MS will remove the VBA feature is not being totally honest since the CONCEPT of it will continue on with whatever MS is calling it these days...
Back to Apple's suite... I wouldn't expect them to support VBA as I said above but was mainly talking about the CONCEPT of it.. Apple would undoubtedly use AppleScript or some derivation of it.
I'm dying to know two major irritants that I've had with Pages:
My pet peeve has always been 'flowing too much'. Try to do any editing and the whole world keep shifting and re-aligning around you. I essentially have to do everything in a text box to prevent (say) page 4 of a document r-arranging itself because I moved something on page 1 a few pixels over... Some of my formatting problems even stumped the experts in the Mac store.
But I have to say the videos of the new iwork features does show some cook stuff. Not to install and find time to play with the blasted stuff
Numbers is more than a little slow on big tables. Like the rest of iWork and many other Apple apps, it tries to render the entire view during scrolling in real time with font smoothing and spell checking. Dragging the scroll bar on a table with a few thousand rows x 60 columns is very jerky for me on an iMac G5. Why applications have to scroll in realtime instead of just jumping to the final view is beyond me. Apps would be so much snappier if they didn't.
Unfortunately that makes it pretty useless for one of the main reasons I have to use a spreadsheet application - editing csv dumps from a MySQL database. For that Tables or Excel still rule, which is a pity as I was hoping I could ditch Excel.
Whilst I'm at it, the csv export doesn't let me specify which character to use to delimit fields or rows. That's annoying.
Still, for normal spreadsheet work it looks great and the Pages update is great too so Apple will be getting my 55 quid. I don't really care about Keynote - I've never had a need to use it and I've never used Powerpoint either.
If anyone has a better tool for editing MySQL CSV dumps then please let me know so I can gladly drop Excel. Otherwise I'll have to buy an 8 core MacPro to edit dumps.
If anyone has a better tool for editing MySQL CSV dumps then please let me know so I can gladly drop Excel. Otherwise I'll have to buy an 8 core MacPro to edit dumps.
Not to be nosey or anything, but why are you editing CSV dumps in the first place? That sounds like a nightmare no matter what application you are using. Could you not build a database back end to update your records? Maybe phpMyAdmin on the server would do the trick for you.
Numbers is more than a little slow on big tables. Like the rest of iWork and many other Apple apps, it tries to render the entire view during scrolling in real time with font smoothing and spell checking. Dragging the scroll bar on a table with a few thousand rows x 60 columns is very jerky for me on an iMac G5. Why applications have to scroll in realtime instead of just jumping to the final view is beyond me. Apps would be so much snappier if they didn't.
Unfortunately that makes it pretty useless for one of the main reasons I have to use a spreadsheet application - editing csv dumps from a MySQL database. For that Tables or Excel still rule, which is a pity as I was hoping I could ditch Excel.
Whilst I'm at it, the csv export doesn't let me specify which character to use to delimit fields or rows. That's annoying.
I noticed something funny- on very large tables using the scroll ball is still very smooth, it's only the bar that seems to be very jumpy.
Oh, and csv means comma separated values. So it makes sense that you can't specify another character. Although an export to delimited values file might also be a useful addition...
When I open a new document, the window is set up in widescreen and too wide for my PB. No set up that I can seem to find to make them open in a window that will fit my screen.
When I open a new document, the window is set up in widescreen and too wide for my PB. No set up that I can seem to find to make them open in a window that will fit my screen.
Yup, same here. Bit of a bug. Looks like they designed for 13" and up. \
Anyway, there's a Provide Numbers Feedback menu item under the Numbers menu. This seems like a good time to use it....
I don't get the justification for two separate modes that are seemingly not changeable once a document has been created.
It seems like the Word Processing Mode corresponds closest to what existed in '06. This is confirmed by the fact that opening documents created in '06 opens them in Word Processing.
Now what exactly is the point of the new Page Layout mode? It's possible to create linked text boxes and move around graphics nicely in Word Processing view. So is the only difference that Page Layout doesn't have the in page text basis? It seems rather dumb to separate everything like this, I rather liked the original merging of the two concepts.
Thanks. Interestingly enough, the feedback link is not working.
This is disappointing. The format bar is not usuable on the 12". Guess if we see a small laptop, it will be widescreen!
A bug in the bug reporting. Sweeeet. The feedback for Keynote and Pages works but not Numbers. I also noticed that the user manual link in the help menu is a dead link, as well. (of course, the user manuals are included in a folder in the download.)
You can, of course, just hit the zoom button (green button with plus sign) in the upper left of the window, and it resizes to the right size. But it's annoying to have to do that every time...
The guy that voiced these videos is real, he just sounds like a robot!
Quote:
Originally Posted by neondiet
Has anyone else been onto Apple's web site, viewed the Video Demos of the iWork08 and iLife08 apps and noticed the voice?
It's not human. It's dam close, and I didn't realise it wasn't a real person at first. At least I don't think it is. It's hard to tell, but every now and then there's a small change in a word that gives it away, if you listen carefully.
Could this be the new voice from Leopard? If so, it's stunning! My girlfriend was watching the demos and didn't notice at all until I pointed it out.
I don't get the justification for two separate modes that are seemingly not changeable once a document has been created.
It seems like the Word Processing Mode corresponds closest to what existed in '06. This is confirmed by the fact that opening documents created in '06 opens them in Word Processing.
Now what exactly is the point of the new Page Layout mode? It's possible to create linked text boxes and move around graphics nicely in Word Processing view. So is the only difference that Page Layout doesn't have the in page text basis? It seems rather dumb to separate everything like this, I rather liked the original merging of the two concepts.
I disagree. With the page text basis, it is easy to have problems with layers: you can send something to the back and then have a real heck of a time selecting it again if you don't realize what has happened (it is behind a big, empty text box that is invisible).
The new Pages is sort of like a drawing pad in Appleworks in layout function, and like the WP function in the other. I haven't gotten mine yet, but I this is how I understand it, and I am very happy that they have done this. There are times when one function fits a need better than the other, so they have made Pages a more complete package.
I disagree. With the page text basis, it is easy to have problems with layers: you can send something to the back and then have a real heck of a time selecting it again if you don't realize what has happened (it is behind a big, empty text box that is invisible).
Okay, but is this the single, only reason for differentiation. Because, like I said, I can't see any other advantage to page layout and if so, they've added a remarkable level of complexity for a single problem? One that is not even a problem if you look it up in the user manual and see that you just have to drag the mouse from the edge of the page to select things below the text.
Not to be nosey or anything, but why are you editing CSV dumps in the first place? That sounds like a nightmare no matter what application you are using. Could you not build a database back end to update your records? Maybe phpMyAdmin on the server would do the trick for you.
It's just quicker sometimes to edit CSV files than use phpMyAdmin or a web form based backend especially for bulk search and replace.
Apart from that, you don't really want to give users access to phpMyAdmin to edit data whereas letting them edit in a spreadsheet program they understand and providing an easy import facility is often good for them. Most e-commerce sites have import/export via CSV.
Quote:
Originally Posted by meelash
I noticed something funny- on very large tables using the scroll ball is still very smooth, it's only the bar that seems to be very jumpy.
Only a little better for me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by meelash
Oh, and csv means comma separated values. So it makes sense that you can't specify another character. Although an export to delimited values file might also be a useful addition...
I wish. Unfortunately IME the meaning of 'CSV' seems to alter between applications. Some use a comma, some a semi-colon, some a tab. Some terminate with a line feed, some a DOS CRLF and even some still use the old Mac pre-OSX CR. Some allow multiple lines inside a cell if enclosed in quotes, some don't. Some escape quotes, some enclose them. If you're working across platforms and applications then you need quite fine control or you end up having to write more complex software to parse the files.
Okay, but is this the single, only reason for differentiation. Because, like I said, I can't see any other advantage to page layout and if so, they've added a remarkable level of complexity for a single problem? One that is not even a problem if you look it up in the user manual and see that you just have to drag the mouse from the edge of the page to select things below the text.
My apps shipped yesterday, so I will be getting them soon (tomorrow, I hope) and will be able to play around with this; I really don't know how they have implemented it, but believe that, for the average user, it will be a big improvement. Sure, more advanced users read the manual, but not everyone remembers all the time or can easily conceptualize that there is a big empty box on the page (I am speaking from experience having watched people learn to use Pages).
A bug in the bug reporting. Sweeeet. The feedback for Keynote and Pages works but not Numbers. I also noticed that the user manual link in the help menu is a dead link, as well. (of course, the user manuals are included in a folder in the download.)
You can, of course, just hit the zoom button (green button with plus sign) in the upper left of the window, and it resizes to the right size. But it's annoying to have to do that every time...
That resizes the window correctly. However, then you don't have access to all of the items on the Context bar. It doesn't let you expand to see the hidden ones....\
Comments
Gotta say, Numbers and its unique re-implementation of the boring spreadsheet we've all come to love.... errr... learn how to deal with is quite nice (from the tutorials anyway) but I can immediately find one thing that is quite lacking with the iWork suite and the one thing that has made Office such a invasive success in the business market.
VisualBasic for Applications and to a lesser degree MS Forms... are the two things that allow Microsoft's Office suite 'be all it can be' and basically customizable to any situation and need imaginable... Almost never utilized in the home-setting except perhaps in the more geeky homes... mostly due to its fairly complex implementation... VBA is however used extensively in the business market and its what makes MS Office *indispensable* as an office tool.
Most will (successfully) argue that iWork isn't going after that particular market and I'd agree... but all the same, it sure would be nice to have some form of VBA & Forms available just the same...
Dave
I doubt if Apple would be quick to jump on using VBA, though. Maybe some other scripting languages. Has anyone tried using AppleScripts in the new Numbers?
...
VisualBasic for Applications and to a lesser degree MS Forms... are the two things that allow Microsoft's Office suite 'be all it can be' and basically customizable to any situation and need imaginable... VBA is however used extensively in the business market and its what makes MS Office *indispensable* as an office tool.
...
VBA is slated to be removed from the next version of Office:win.
VBA is slated to be removed from the next version of Office:win.
Yes yes yes...
Firstly I wasn't expecting Apple to actually USE VBA since as we all know MS will be depreciating it and I doubt it will be outright replaced since knowing MS those old VBA apps will continue to be supported in some way shape or form for a long time to come... Something MS is known for and is what I will assume adds quite a bit of their Application bloatyness.
Simply coming right out and saying MS will remove the VBA feature is not being totally honest since the CONCEPT of it will continue on with whatever MS is calling it these days...
Back to Apple's suite... I wouldn't expect them to support VBA as I said above but was mainly talking about the CONCEPT of it.. Apple would undoubtedly use AppleScript or some derivation of it.
Dave
I'm dying to know two major irritants that I've had with Pages:
My pet peeve has always been 'flowing too much'. Try to do any editing and the whole world keep shifting and re-aligning around you. I essentially have to do everything in a text box to prevent (say) page 4 of a document r-arranging itself because I moved something on page 1 a few pixels over... Some of my formatting problems even stumped the experts in the Mac store.
But I have to say the videos of the new iwork features does show some cook stuff. Not to install and find time to play with the blasted stuff
Unfortunately that makes it pretty useless for one of the main reasons I have to use a spreadsheet application - editing csv dumps from a MySQL database. For that Tables or Excel still rule, which is a pity as I was hoping I could ditch Excel.
Whilst I'm at it, the csv export doesn't let me specify which character to use to delimit fields or rows. That's annoying.
Still, for normal spreadsheet work it looks great and the Pages update is great too so Apple will be getting my 55 quid. I don't really care about Keynote - I've never had a need to use it and I've never used Powerpoint either.
If anyone has a better tool for editing MySQL CSV dumps then please let me know so I can gladly drop Excel. Otherwise I'll have to buy an 8 core MacPro to edit dumps.
30 Day Trial Version
If anyone has a better tool for editing MySQL CSV dumps then please let me know so I can gladly drop Excel. Otherwise I'll have to buy an 8 core MacPro to edit dumps.
Not to be nosey or anything, but why are you editing CSV dumps in the first place? That sounds like a nightmare no matter what application you are using. Could you not build a database back end to update your records? Maybe phpMyAdmin on the server would do the trick for you.
m
Numbers is more than a little slow on big tables. Like the rest of iWork and many other Apple apps, it tries to render the entire view during scrolling in real time with font smoothing and spell checking. Dragging the scroll bar on a table with a few thousand rows x 60 columns is very jerky for me on an iMac G5. Why applications have to scroll in realtime instead of just jumping to the final view is beyond me. Apps would be so much snappier if they didn't.
Unfortunately that makes it pretty useless for one of the main reasons I have to use a spreadsheet application - editing csv dumps from a MySQL database. For that Tables or Excel still rule, which is a pity as I was hoping I could ditch Excel.
Whilst I'm at it, the csv export doesn't let me specify which character to use to delimit fields or rows. That's annoying.
I noticed something funny- on very large tables using the scroll ball is still very smooth, it's only the bar that seems to be very jumpy.
Oh, and csv means comma separated values. So it makes sense that you can't specify another character. Although an export to delimited values file might also be a useful addition...
When I open a new document, the window is set up in widescreen and too wide for my PB. No set up that I can seem to find to make them open in a window that will fit my screen.
Anyone else with a 12" PB tried Numbers?
When I open a new document, the window is set up in widescreen and too wide for my PB. No set up that I can seem to find to make them open in a window that will fit my screen.
Yup, same here. Bit of a bug. Looks like they designed for 13" and up.
Anyway, there's a Provide Numbers Feedback menu item under the Numbers menu. This seems like a good time to use it....
It seems like the Word Processing Mode corresponds closest to what existed in '06. This is confirmed by the fact that opening documents created in '06 opens them in Word Processing.
Now what exactly is the point of the new Page Layout mode? It's possible to create linked text boxes and move around graphics nicely in Word Processing view. So is the only difference that Page Layout doesn't have the in page text basis? It seems rather dumb to separate everything like this, I rather liked the original merging of the two concepts.
Yup, same here. Bit of a bug. Looks like they designed for 13" and up.
Anyway, there's a Provide Numbers Feedback menu item under the Numbers menu. This seems like a good time to use it....
Thanks. Interestingly enough, the feedback link is not working.
This is disappointing. The format bar is not usuable on the 12". Guess if we see a small laptop, it will be widescreen!
Thanks. Interestingly enough, the feedback link is not working.
This is disappointing. The format bar is not usuable on the 12". Guess if we see a small laptop, it will be widescreen!
A bug in the bug reporting. Sweeeet. The feedback for Keynote and Pages works but not Numbers. I also noticed that the user manual link in the help menu is a dead link, as well. (of course, the user manuals are included in a folder in the download.)
You can, of course, just hit the zoom button (green button with plus sign) in the upper left of the window, and it resizes to the right size. But it's annoying to have to do that every time...
http://www.apple.com/au/macosx/leopa...ssibility.html
The guy that voiced these videos is real, he just sounds like a robot!
Has anyone else been onto Apple's web site, viewed the Video Demos of the iWork08 and iLife08 apps and noticed the voice?
It's not human. It's dam close, and I didn't realise it wasn't a real person at first. At least I don't think it is. It's hard to tell, but every now and then there's a small change in a word that gives it away, if you listen carefully.
Could this be the new voice from Leopard? If so, it's stunning! My girlfriend was watching the demos and didn't notice at all until I pointed it out.
I don't get the justification for two separate modes that are seemingly not changeable once a document has been created.
It seems like the Word Processing Mode corresponds closest to what existed in '06. This is confirmed by the fact that opening documents created in '06 opens them in Word Processing.
Now what exactly is the point of the new Page Layout mode? It's possible to create linked text boxes and move around graphics nicely in Word Processing view. So is the only difference that Page Layout doesn't have the in page text basis? It seems rather dumb to separate everything like this, I rather liked the original merging of the two concepts.
I disagree. With the page text basis, it is easy to have problems with layers: you can send something to the back and then have a real heck of a time selecting it again if you don't realize what has happened (it is behind a big, empty text box that is invisible).
The new Pages is sort of like a drawing pad in Appleworks in layout function, and like the WP function in the other. I haven't gotten mine yet, but I this is how I understand it, and I am very happy that they have done this. There are times when one function fits a need better than the other, so they have made Pages a more complete package.
I disagree. With the page text basis, it is easy to have problems with layers: you can send something to the back and then have a real heck of a time selecting it again if you don't realize what has happened (it is behind a big, empty text box that is invisible).
Okay, but is this the single, only reason for differentiation. Because, like I said, I can't see any other advantage to page layout and if so, they've added a remarkable level of complexity for a single problem? One that is not even a problem if you look it up in the user manual and see that you just have to drag the mouse from the edge of the page to select things below the text.
Not to be nosey or anything, but why are you editing CSV dumps in the first place? That sounds like a nightmare no matter what application you are using. Could you not build a database back end to update your records? Maybe phpMyAdmin on the server would do the trick for you.
It's just quicker sometimes to edit CSV files than use phpMyAdmin or a web form based backend especially for bulk search and replace.
Apart from that, you don't really want to give users access to phpMyAdmin to edit data whereas letting them edit in a spreadsheet program they understand and providing an easy import facility is often good for them. Most e-commerce sites have import/export via CSV.
I noticed something funny- on very large tables using the scroll ball is still very smooth, it's only the bar that seems to be very jumpy.
Only a little better for me.
Oh, and csv means comma separated values. So it makes sense that you can't specify another character. Although an export to delimited values file might also be a useful addition...
I wish. Unfortunately IME the meaning of 'CSV' seems to alter between applications. Some use a comma, some a semi-colon, some a tab. Some terminate with a line feed, some a DOS CRLF and even some still use the old Mac pre-OSX CR. Some allow multiple lines inside a cell if enclosed in quotes, some don't. Some escape quotes, some enclose them. If you're working across platforms and applications then you need quite fine control or you end up having to write more complex software to parse the files.
Okay, but is this the single, only reason for differentiation. Because, like I said, I can't see any other advantage to page layout and if so, they've added a remarkable level of complexity for a single problem? One that is not even a problem if you look it up in the user manual and see that you just have to drag the mouse from the edge of the page to select things below the text.
My apps shipped yesterday, so I will be getting them soon (tomorrow, I hope) and will be able to play around with this; I really don't know how they have implemented it, but believe that, for the average user, it will be a big improvement. Sure, more advanced users read the manual, but not everyone remembers all the time or can easily conceptualize that there is a big empty box on the page (I am speaking from experience having watched people learn to use Pages).
Wish I had chosen over-night delivery...
A bug in the bug reporting. Sweeeet. The feedback for Keynote and Pages works but not Numbers. I also noticed that the user manual link in the help menu is a dead link, as well. (of course, the user manuals are included in a folder in the download.)
You can, of course, just hit the zoom button (green button with plus sign) in the upper left of the window, and it resizes to the right size. But it's annoying to have to do that every time...
That resizes the window correctly. However, then you don't have access to all of the items on the Context bar. It doesn't let you expand to see the hidden ones....