there is nothing rational about the stock market, you shouldn't be playing if you don't know the game!
I understand that, hence why I'm not playing Its more a reaction to all of the fanboys last week going on and on about how amazing it was that Apple was worth so much. They all seem to be quiet now
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flounder
My guess is that since it had such an incredible run, people who own apple are using this down-turn in the market to lock in their profits, which is in turn driving apple down a disproportionately large amount.
That is what I am assuming. People went retard strong buying the stock for no real reason, and now want to get their money back.
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater
Well it does because the stock market is rarely based on facts but on perception. One sector goes bad and people just start selling off. Yesterday the dow dropped 180 points just because Walmart didn't meet market predictions.
Apple stocks could drop for many reasons not related to the company but just hte Nasdaq. This month overall has been really up and down for all sectors.
My point all along is that the price of the stock was high because of people not knowing what they were getting into and thinking everyone would have 3 iPhones on launch day and it would be the best device ever made.
Yep, I read an interesting analysis on this (but can't for the life of me find the page now!) That basically said the hedge funds holding AAPL stock also hold stock in the markets affected by the sub-prime problems that are causing the current crash. What happens is that they suddenly find themselves holding a large amount of stock that's lost most of its value. "Margin calls" start to be made (i.e. the hedge fund managers find the brokers now want the money to pay for these almost worthless stocks) and so to cover those calls they have to sell off their most profitable stocks.
Unfortunately one of the most profitable stocks in recent time is AAPL, so that's the one that has to go. This huge sell off is what's driving the stock value down disproportionately - heck even at these levels, someone who bought it a year ago would still make substantial money to pay off their other loses, that's why we're still seeing more sellers than buyers.
I don't think there's any fundamental problem with AAPL stock or their products, I think (IMHO of course!) that they'll hit their targets and sales will be maintained (provided no huge recession follows this current downturn but thats not looking too convincing today ). The stock will then go back up to more realistic levels when the markets re-stabilize... as to how long that'll take, who can say with the current uncertainty but I for one hope I can time it right to buy some more once the decline has ended.
Current volatility is huge... and it's nothing to do with Apple, who knows where it's headed, I reckon it's still got a way to go. Take a look at the Bonds sector, that's where everyone's going as it's got safe guaranteed returns and seems to be the only part of the markets that's going up consistently today.
Current volatility is huge... and it's nothing to do with Apple, who knows where it's headed, I reckon it's still got a way to go. Take a look at the Bonds sector, that's where everyone's going as it's got safe guaranteed returns and seems to be the only part of the markets that's going up consistently today.
Yup, it did indeed. And I agree, the stock was overpriced in the higher 140's and going short at that point was a good call. But to say this level of collapse is due to anything Apple has done is just not telling the whole tale.
The Feds are pumping huge amounts of money into the markets at the moment just to maintain any sense of stability, similar injections of cash are being made around the world, Japan just tried withdrawing its additional funds yesterday and today everything is down again. I'm sorry but I just don't believe something like Walmart not quite hitting their targets takes 180 points off the Dow.
Maybe that's the story they're telling on the U.S. side of the pond, but it's not the story I'm reading on the UK side, here it seems to be a crash all round due to U.S. sub-prime mortgage lending running into billions of dollars of money that's effectively vanished. That's gotta hurt and that's nothing to do with a good or bad product, heck I haven't even seen an iPhone, sounds cool and the hype was great for the shares but I'm not frothing over it and thinking Apple are infallible.
So, in reality, all he lost was an opportunity to make money ( paper profits ) .... not quite the same thing as losing money .... since you can't buy anything with paper profits.
Yup, it did indeed. And I agree, the stock was overpriced in the higher 140's and going short at that point was a good call. But to say this level of collapse is due to anything Apple has done is just not telling the whole tale.
The Feds are pumping huge amounts of money into the markets at the moment just to maintain any sense of stability, similar injections of cash are being made around the world, Japan just tried withdrawing its additional funds yesterday and today everything is down again. I'm sorry but I just don't believe something like Walmart not quite hitting their targets takes 180 points off the Dow.
Maybe that's the story they're telling on the U.S. side of the pond, but it's not the story I'm reading on the UK side, here it seems to be a crash all round due to U.S. sub-prime mortgage lending running into billions of dollars of money that's effectively vanished. That's gotta hurt and that's nothing to do with a good or bad product, heck I haven't even seen an iPhone, sounds cool and the hype was great for the shares but I'm not frothing over it and thinking Apple are infallible.
Anyways, just my opinion, everyone's got one
I think the housing market problem is more than a subprime problem. Banks issue credit cards against ones "home equity" which in La La land where homes are worth 4 times what they were worth in 1994 is millions to ordinary people that might of had a $10,000 credit limit otherwise. My neighbors were buying everything and going everywhere. This was good for Walmart and Prada too. Houses prices in most area are not going up now. So where's the "equity" to keep buying and pay on these cards? this game of confidence is out of hand.
I think the housing market problem is more than a subprime problem. Banks issue credit cards against ones "home equity" which in La La land where homes are worth 4 times what they were worth in 1994 is millions to ordinary people that might of had a $10,000 credit limit otherwise. My neighbors were buying everything and going everywhere. This was good for Walmart and Prada too. Houses prices in most area are not going up now. So where's the "equity" to keep buying and pay on these cards? this game of confidence is out of hand.
It's all very scary at the moment both sides of the pond , money has been too easily available for too long and now someone's going to have to pay.
I wrote a whole bunch here then remembered this is an Apple board!
Anyway, there'll soon be a buying opportunity and even at current prices Steve just made a tidy sum... again... wonder what he'll invest it in
So, in reality, all he lost was an opportunity to make money ( paper profits ) .... not quite the same thing as losing money .... since you can't buy anything with paper profits.
It?s easy to liquefy, thus money honey especially when his job doesn?t pay well.
It?s easy to liquefy, thus money honey especially when his job doesn?t pay well.
It seems that you and I are caught in a " glass half full / glass half empty scenario. I will refer you to the following article:
Jobs stocks deal may have netted $13.7 million
Contra Costa Times
Article Launched: 08/16/2007 10:52:07 AM PDT
Apple Inc. Chief Executive Officer Steve Jobs, who received $1 in salary last year, may have made a potential profit of $13.7 million by exercising options to buy shares.
He bought 120,000 shares for about $5.75 a piece this week, selling them somewhere in between Apple's trading range this week of between $127 and $113, according to a regulatory. Cupertino-based Apple gave Jobs the options under a 1997 plan for directors, according to an April filing.
The executive became ineligible for further directors' grants after taking the CEO job in 1997, reclaiming leadership of the company he founded after computer sales slowed. Jobs helped revive its fortunes with the best-selling iPod music player and new versions of its Macintosh computers.
Not bad for a guy stuck in a job that " doesn't pay well " honey.
The markets are getting pounded due to the mortgage market for sure. And this is going to affect everything in that mortgages are tied not only to those firms, but banks, Credit Union's, and the investment market in the form of bonds. Fact is, the government (Senate, House, White House) saw the writing on the wall with these Bet on the Come mortgage products that have been out and did NOTHING.
Apple is also taking it doubly in the shorts (pun intended) because it was bid up ridiculously high and the short positions ramped up big time. Savvy investors make money in all markets, up or down.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jemster
Yup, it did indeed. And I agree, the stock was overpriced in the higher 140's and going short at that point was a good call. But to say this level of collapse is due to anything Apple has done is just not telling the whole tale.
The Feds are pumping huge amounts of money into the markets at the moment just to maintain any sense of stability, similar injections of cash are being made around the world, Japan just tried withdrawing its additional funds yesterday and today everything is down again. I'm sorry but I just don't believe something like Walmart not quite hitting their targets takes 180 points off the Dow.
Maybe that's the story they're telling on the U.S. side of the pond, but it's not the story I'm reading on the UK side, here it seems to be a crash all round due to U.S. sub-prime mortgage lending running into billions of dollars of money that's effectively vanished. That's gotta hurt and that's nothing to do with a good or bad product, heck I haven't even seen an iPhone, sounds cool and the hype was great for the shares but I'm not frothing over it and thinking Apple are infallible.
First of all Steve Jobs had to exercise his option or lose them. The big news would have been if Jobs sold the stock. Jobs did not because he knows that once all of the emotion and fear that is driving the stock market down now will end in two months, especially when the FED lowers interest rates next month.
I continue to purchase Apple shared because its an incredible value right now. The drop in Apple's stock is a buying opportunity. There is no news out there to indicate that Apple's will not meet or exceed their projections. To those who think the stock has dropped because its the shares were over valued have little understanding of the market or Apple.
If you want to look at another company that has been caught up in this emotional roller coaster as well look at RIMM. The stock was on its way to $240 with record earnings for several quarters and their long term outlook is outstanding. Today it trades at $198 but was all the way down to $187.
There are many companies with great earnings short and long term and have been hot hard for really no reason other than panic. Apple is worth at that the very least $130 a share and you can purchase it today for just $117, that is a steal!
First of all Steve Jobs had to exercise his option or lose them. The big news would have been if Jobs sold the stock. Jobs did not because he knows that once all of the emotion and fear that is driving the stock market down now will end, especially when the FED lowers interest rates next month.
I continue to purchase Apple shares because its an incredible value right now. The drop in Apple's stock is a buying opportunity. There is no news out there to indicate that Apple's will not meet or exceed their projections. To those who think the stock has dropped because the shares were over valued have little understanding of the market or Apple.
If you want to look at another company that has been caught up in this emotional roller coaster as well look at RIMM. The stock was on its way to $240 with record earnings for several quarters and their long term outlook is outstanding. Today it trades at $198 but was all the way down to $187.
There are many companies with great earnings short and long term and have been hot hard for really no reason other than panic. Apple is worth at that the very least $130 a share and you can purchase it today for just $117, that is a steal!
So, in reality, all he lost was an opportunity to make money ( paper profits ) .... not quite the same thing as losing money .... since you can't buy anything with paper profits.
Actually, he lost a lot of $$ too. Remember, he owns 5.5 MILLION shares of APPL.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wally
"This just in: Steve wipes his butt using the folded method instead of the proven "bunched" approach."
First of all Steve Jobs had to exercise his option or lose them. The big news would have been if Jobs sold the stock. Jobs did not because he knows that once all of the emotion and fear that is driving the stock market down now will end in two months, especially when the FED lowers interest rates next month.
I continue to purchase Apple shared because its an incredible value right now. The drop in Apple's stock is a buying opportunity. There is no news out there to indicate that Apple's will not meet or exceed their projections. To those who think the stock has dropped because its the shares were over valued have little understanding of the market or Apple.
If you want to look at another company that has been caught up in this emotional roller coaster as well look at RIMM. The stock was on its way to $240 with record earnings for several quarters and their long term outlook is outstanding. Today it trades at $198 but was all the way down to $187.
There are many companies with great earnings short and long term and have been hot hard for really no reason other than panic. Apple is worth at that the very least $130 a share and you can purchase it today for just $117, that is a steal!
Apple, like any other company, is only worth what other people will pay for it ....As of now that is $117. ..Some interesting info for your consideration ... the price/earning ratio for Apple is 35.03 ....industry p/e is 29.96 ....sector is 26.55 ...... S & P 500 is....19.09.
That would indicate to me that Apple is still overpriced in real terms .... however, it's still only worth what someone will pay for it. As for me , I think I'll wait a little while longer before I go " all in "
No, this is not news. The granting of these options was news at that time. The use of them -- as expected -- is, simply, not. It is a bit like breathing or going to the bathroom. When your in-the-money options are set to expire, you will obviously exercise them, or else you are insane and enjoy giving up $15 million chunks just for laughs.
It's proper and all to report this, but it is not new information. Steve pays his water bill every month, and he exercises all his options when required.
Comments
there is nothing rational about the stock market, you shouldn't be playing if you don't know the game!
I understand that, hence why I'm not playing
My guess is that since it had such an incredible run, people who own apple are using this down-turn in the market to lock in their profits, which is in turn driving apple down a disproportionately large amount.
That is what I am assuming. People went retard strong buying the stock for no real reason, and now want to get their money back.
Well it does because the stock market is rarely based on facts but on perception. One sector goes bad and people just start selling off. Yesterday the dow dropped 180 points just because Walmart didn't meet market predictions.
Apple stocks could drop for many reasons not related to the company but just hte Nasdaq. This month overall has been really up and down for all sectors.
My point all along is that the price of the stock was high because of people not knowing what they were getting into and thinking everyone would have 3 iPhones on launch day and it would be the best device ever made.
Here's an idea for a story for tomorrows headlines:
"This just in: Steve wipes his butt using the folded method instead of the proven "bunched" approach."
Fill in the rest and leave it on my desk in the morning.
ROFLMFAO
Yep, I read an interesting analysis on this (but can't for the life of me find the page now!) That basically said the hedge funds holding AAPL stock also hold stock in the markets affected by the sub-prime problems that are causing the current crash. What happens is that they suddenly find themselves holding a large amount of stock that's lost most of its value. "Margin calls" start to be made (i.e. the hedge fund managers find the brokers now want the money to pay for these almost worthless stocks) and so to cover those calls they have to sell off their most profitable stocks.
Unfortunately one of the most profitable stocks in recent time is AAPL, so that's the one that has to go. This huge sell off is what's driving the stock value down disproportionately - heck even at these levels, someone who bought it a year ago would still make substantial money to pay off their other loses, that's why we're still seeing more sellers than buyers.
I don't think there's any fundamental problem with AAPL stock or their products, I think (IMHO of course!) that they'll hit their targets and sales will be maintained (provided no huge recession follows this current downturn but thats not looking too convincing today
Belivers such as yourself are not buying yet?
Belivers such as yourself are not buying yet?
I may be a believer, but I ain't stoopid
Current volatility is huge... and it's nothing to do with Apple, who knows where it's headed, I reckon it's still got a way to go. Take a look at the Bonds sector, that's where everyone's going as it's got safe guaranteed returns and seems to be the only part of the markets that's going up consistently today.
I may be a believer, but I ain't stoopid
Current volatility is huge... and it's nothing to do with Apple, who knows where it's headed, I reckon it's still got a way to go. Take a look at the Bonds sector, that's where everyone's going as it's got safe guaranteed returns and seems to be the only part of the markets that's going up consistently today.
My 7/22/07 post said "selling short"
My 7/22/07 post said "selling short"
Yup, it did indeed. And I agree, the stock was overpriced in the higher 140's and going short at that point was a good call. But to say this level of collapse is due to anything Apple has done is just not telling the whole tale.
The Feds are pumping huge amounts of money into the markets at the moment just to maintain any sense of stability, similar injections of cash are being made around the world, Japan just tried withdrawing its additional funds yesterday and today everything is down again. I'm sorry but I just don't believe something like Walmart not quite hitting their targets takes 180 points off the Dow.
Maybe that's the story they're telling on the U.S. side of the pond, but it's not the story I'm reading on the UK side, here it seems to be a crash all round due to U.S. sub-prime mortgage lending running into billions of dollars of money that's effectively vanished. That's gotta hurt and that's nothing to do with a good or bad product, heck I haven't even seen an iPhone, sounds cool and the hype was great for the shares but I'm not frothing over it and thinking Apple are infallible.
Anyways, just my opinion, everyone's got one
His stock was worth more yesterday.
So, in reality, all he lost was an opportunity to make money ( paper profits ) .... not quite the same thing as losing money .... since you can't buy anything with paper profits.
Yup, it did indeed. And I agree, the stock was overpriced in the higher 140's and going short at that point was a good call. But to say this level of collapse is due to anything Apple has done is just not telling the whole tale.
The Feds are pumping huge amounts of money into the markets at the moment just to maintain any sense of stability, similar injections of cash are being made around the world, Japan just tried withdrawing its additional funds yesterday and today everything is down again. I'm sorry but I just don't believe something like Walmart not quite hitting their targets takes 180 points off the Dow.
Maybe that's the story they're telling on the U.S. side of the pond, but it's not the story I'm reading on the UK side, here it seems to be a crash all round due to U.S. sub-prime mortgage lending running into billions of dollars of money that's effectively vanished. That's gotta hurt and that's nothing to do with a good or bad product, heck I haven't even seen an iPhone, sounds cool and the hype was great for the shares but I'm not frothing over it and thinking Apple are infallible.
Anyways, just my opinion, everyone's got one
I think the housing market problem is more than a subprime problem. Banks issue credit cards against ones "home equity" which in La La land where homes are worth 4 times what they were worth in 1994 is millions to ordinary people that might of had a $10,000 credit limit otherwise. My neighbors were buying everything and going everywhere. This was good for Walmart and Prada too. Houses prices in most area are not going up now. So where's the "equity" to keep buying and pay on these cards? this game of confidence is out of hand.
I think the housing market problem is more than a subprime problem. Banks issue credit cards against ones "home equity" which in La La land where homes are worth 4 times what they were worth in 1994 is millions to ordinary people that might of had a $10,000 credit limit otherwise. My neighbors were buying everything and going everywhere. This was good for Walmart and Prada too. Houses prices in most area are not going up now. So where's the "equity" to keep buying and pay on these cards? this game of confidence is out of hand.
It's all very scary at the moment both sides of the pond
I wrote a whole bunch here then remembered this is an Apple board!
Anyway, there'll soon be a buying opportunity and even at current prices Steve just made a tidy sum... again... wonder what he'll invest it in
So, in reality, all he lost was an opportunity to make money ( paper profits ) .... not quite the same thing as losing money .... since you can't buy anything with paper profits.
It?s easy to liquefy, thus money honey especially when his job doesn?t pay well.
It?s easy to liquefy, thus money honey especially when his job doesn?t pay well.
It seems that you and I are caught in a " glass half full / glass half empty scenario. I will refer you to the following article:
Jobs stocks deal may have netted $13.7 million
Contra Costa Times
Article Launched: 08/16/2007 10:52:07 AM PDT
Apple Inc. Chief Executive Officer Steve Jobs, who received $1 in salary last year, may have made a potential profit of $13.7 million by exercising options to buy shares.
He bought 120,000 shares for about $5.75 a piece this week, selling them somewhere in between Apple's trading range this week of between $127 and $113, according to a regulatory. Cupertino-based Apple gave Jobs the options under a 1997 plan for directors, according to an April filing.
The executive became ineligible for further directors' grants after taking the CEO job in 1997, reclaiming leadership of the company he founded after computer sales slowed. Jobs helped revive its fortunes with the best-selling iPod music player and new versions of its Macintosh computers.
Not bad for a guy stuck in a job that " doesn't pay well " honey.
The markets are getting pounded due to the mortgage market for sure. And this is going to affect everything in that mortgages are tied not only to those firms, but banks, Credit Union's, and the investment market in the form of bonds. Fact is, the government (Senate, House, White House) saw the writing on the wall with these Bet on the Come mortgage products that have been out and did NOTHING.
Apple is also taking it doubly in the shorts (pun intended) because it was bid up ridiculously high and the short positions ramped up big time. Savvy investors make money in all markets, up or down.
Yup, it did indeed. And I agree, the stock was overpriced in the higher 140's and going short at that point was a good call. But to say this level of collapse is due to anything Apple has done is just not telling the whole tale.
The Feds are pumping huge amounts of money into the markets at the moment just to maintain any sense of stability, similar injections of cash are being made around the world, Japan just tried withdrawing its additional funds yesterday and today everything is down again. I'm sorry but I just don't believe something like Walmart not quite hitting their targets takes 180 points off the Dow.
Maybe that's the story they're telling on the U.S. side of the pond, but it's not the story I'm reading on the UK side, here it seems to be a crash all round due to U.S. sub-prime mortgage lending running into billions of dollars of money that's effectively vanished. That's gotta hurt and that's nothing to do with a good or bad product, heck I haven't even seen an iPhone, sounds cool and the hype was great for the shares but I'm not frothing over it and thinking Apple are infallible.
Anyways, just my opinion, everyone's got one
I continue to purchase Apple shared because its an incredible value right now. The drop in Apple's stock is a buying opportunity. There is no news out there to indicate that Apple's will not meet or exceed their projections. To those who think the stock has dropped because its the shares were over valued have little understanding of the market or Apple.
If you want to look at another company that has been caught up in this emotional roller coaster as well look at RIMM. The stock was on its way to $240 with record earnings for several quarters and their long term outlook is outstanding. Today it trades at $198 but was all the way down to $187.
There are many companies with great earnings short and long term and have been hot hard for really no reason other than panic. Apple is worth at that the very least $130 a share and you can purchase it today for just $117, that is a steal!
I continue to purchase Apple shares because its an incredible value right now. The drop in Apple's stock is a buying opportunity. There is no news out there to indicate that Apple's will not meet or exceed their projections. To those who think the stock has dropped because the shares were over valued have little understanding of the market or Apple.
If you want to look at another company that has been caught up in this emotional roller coaster as well look at RIMM. The stock was on its way to $240 with record earnings for several quarters and their long term outlook is outstanding. Today it trades at $198 but was all the way down to $187.
There are many companies with great earnings short and long term and have been hot hard for really no reason other than panic. Apple is worth at that the very least $130 a share and you can purchase it today for just $117, that is a steal!
My 7/22/07 post said "selling short"
I hope you covered your shorts today. Won't make as much, tomorrow , I bet .
So, in reality, all he lost was an opportunity to make money ( paper profits ) .... not quite the same thing as losing money .... since you can't buy anything with paper profits.
Actually, he lost a lot of $$ too. Remember, he owns 5.5 MILLION shares of APPL.
"This just in: Steve wipes his butt using the folded method instead of the proven "bunched" approach."
Do you have doccumentationon that proven method?
I hope you covered your shorts today. Won't make as much, tomorrow , I bet .
<--out of the market!
First of all Steve Jobs had to exercise his option or lose them. The big news would have been if Jobs sold the stock. Jobs did not because he knows that once all of the emotion and fear that is driving the stock market down now will end in two months, especially when the FED lowers interest rates next month.
I continue to purchase Apple shared because its an incredible value right now. The drop in Apple's stock is a buying opportunity. There is no news out there to indicate that Apple's will not meet or exceed their projections. To those who think the stock has dropped because its the shares were over valued have little understanding of the market or Apple.
If you want to look at another company that has been caught up in this emotional roller coaster as well look at RIMM. The stock was on its way to $240 with record earnings for several quarters and their long term outlook is outstanding. Today it trades at $198 but was all the way down to $187.
There are many companies with great earnings short and long term and have been hot hard for really no reason other than panic. Apple is worth at that the very least $130 a share and you can purchase it today for just $117, that is a steal!
Apple, like any other company, is only worth what other people will pay for it ....As of now that is $117. ..Some interesting info for your consideration ... the price/earning ratio for Apple is 35.03 ....industry p/e is 29.96 ....sector is 26.55 ...... S & P 500 is....19.09.
That would indicate to me that Apple is still overpriced in real terms .... however, it's still only worth what someone will pay for it. As for me , I think I'll wait a little while longer before I go " all in "
Again, until he ACTUALLY SELLS stock, he is only dealing with paper profits/losses, and they are worthless, on both sides of the equation.
No, this is not news. The granting of these options was news at that time. The use of them -- as expected -- is, simply, not. It is a bit like breathing or going to the bathroom. When your in-the-money options are set to expire, you will obviously exercise them, or else you are insane and enjoy giving up $15 million chunks just for laughs.
It's proper and all to report this, but it is not new information. Steve pays his water bill every month, and he exercises all his options when required.