<strong>iTunes, iPhoto, iMovie, ect. are all advertised as advantages of buying a mac, but what if Apple were to suddenly start charging for those too? The development costs of these are pretty high, why shouldn't Apple make money off them too?</strong><hr></blockquote>
I think you might be missing the point some people here are making. True, it cost them money to create iTunes etc. but those are one time things. They create it, we download it, and we use it. It doesn't cost them any more if I download iTunes 50 times than if I download it once.
That's not the case with iTools. IT does cost them more if i set up 50 email addresses and 50 iDisks than if I set up only one. And people did that. I'm sure people here did that. It's the abuse of the free system that lead to it's demise.
True Apple didn't break any promises, but it sure like to promote iTools as a free benefit of owning OS9 & OS X. OS 9 is dead by Apple's standards though....
Apple knows it was a brilliant move to get a lot of users hooked into mac.com's free e-mail address. Hell, I didn't even need it and I started using it.
It's a lot of fun to tell everyone, "Don't use my mac.com e-mail address anymore, I'm too cheap to pay for it".
Attracting new customers and getting everyone hooked on a free or cheap product or service, then replacing it with a more expensive product or service, is called Bait and Switch, and it stinks. It stinks enough that I've already dumped .Mac and use a pop mail address whose domain advertises another company. I'm happy, but I'd rather be promoting Apple and the Macintosh. Apple's loss, not mine.
Well... 100 $ for an email service a year sounds rather high ... unless mac.com really provides it for that price UNLIMITED, so u could receive files of any size...
Even the horrible Microsoft offers their free services.. I'd prefer to have a proudly MAC and free email!
Damn I'm pissed off now. I bought my lovely G4 and got the mac.com-adress, I already had several adresses, but i liked my mac.adress and started using it instead. I liked the punch it gave to my PC-lame-friends. I thought it was another smart marketing-trick by apple, and I still think it is (the free e-mail). But my illusion of a company that cared for the consumers died. I'm prepared to pay some, but no more than 25bucks a year or some student-discount. I know this is a regular whine-postal, but enough of these and apple might reconsider.
<strong>BTW, iTools is now defunct. Apple broke no promises regarding the length of time your account would be free. As long as iTools was around, so was the free service. No one complained when iReview went under. </strong><hr></blockquote>
If you look at the OS X press release (http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2001/mar/21osxstore.html), one of the advertised features is "free IMAP mail for Mac.com email accounts." Even if iTools is defunct, Mac.com email acounts aren't.
<strong>Well... 100 $ for an email service a year sounds rather high ... unless mac.com really provides it for that price UNLIMITED, so u could receive files of any size...
Even the horrible Microsoft offers their free services.. I'd prefer to have a proudly MAC and free email!</strong><hr></blockquote>
Unlimited disk space and bandwidth for $100?
<img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" /> <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" /> <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" /> Nobody does that. If they do, you're welcome to try and see how they react 'cause they're lying thru their teeth.
Microsoft only offers a free version of hotmail because it's puny, full of ads, and so full of spam it's sick.
Does it not say that a benefit of owning an Apple product is getting iTools for free with a screen to set the account up.
This is on copies of OSX that are on shelves today and will be for over another month.
I go grab one of these boxes that advertises free iTools and it's not there. Perhaps no laws broken, but that's a pretty lame excuse to use when dealing with customers.
"Oh yeah, what're you gonna do about it!?"
Again, if Microsoft had suddenly cut Hotmail off entirely and made it a pay-only option there would've been wails from all over the 'net. And the people here who think it's actually good for Apple to force people who only want to keep their e-mail address to pay $100 for a $40 service would be right in there calling Microsoft evil with everyone else.
It's got ads and is annoying in the free version, sure, but at least they didn't take my 5-year-old e-mail address away.
[quote]It's got ads and is annoying in the free version, sure, but at least they didn't take my 5-year-old e-mail address away.<hr></blockquote>
iTools has been around for 2.5 years. It was free. It shouldn't have been. Hotmail doesn't compare to iTools. Hotmail gives you webmail only for free. You don't get easy access internet disk storage. You don't get POP or IMAP.
myrealbox.com gives you POP and IMAP for free, with no ads.
I find webmail interfaces very annoying and only use them when I'm away from my computer.
Maintaining Hotmail's service probably costs a great bit less than maintaining iTools. Ad revenue helps.
I sent this e-mail to Apple's feedback page on the .Mac service. I though it made some good points, and so I hope you will consider these words, also.
------------------->
I am concerned over your policies with the iTools conversion to .Mac. Many Mac users are furious about the switch from the free iTools to the fee-based .Mac. Many people simply do not use iTools heavily enough to justify the added expense. Other users are bothered by the fact that much of the value of .Mac seems to be in Backup and Virex, but people who are at all serious about backup and anti-virus software probably already own equivalent software that may be significantly more capable, as certainly is the case with Dantz's Retrospect backup applications. Plus, .Mac doesn't come with any Internet access, whereas most Internet connections from standard ISPs like EarthLink already include multiple email addresses and Web space, making the decision to pay yet again for these features more difficult. And finally, people feel let down because Apple initially made a big deal about how iTools was free and was intended to be a part of the overall Macintosh experience. On your "get iTools" blurb, seen upon installing OSX, you say, "Another benefit of owning Apple products is that you'll be able to use Apple's iTools for free". iTools does not exist any longer, and the .Mac model does not include any of these services for free. With no basic free options available under .Mac, it seem Apple has mislead customers. Personally, I believe Apple is within their rights in this matter, but I still understand how people could be very upset. Honestly, it is hard for me to say these customers were not mislead at all by Apple.
Perhaps a better move would be to keep only the Mac.com e-mail address, at least a forwarding address, available for free for current users. This option would ensure that Mac.com email addresses would continue to help promote the advantages of the Macintosh at large while significantly reducing the bandwidth and disk space requirements of the service model.
However, I do have another major concern. Many .Mac features are built into Mac OS X itself and into applications like iPhoto. It doesn't look good if high-profile functionality like having the iDisk be available from a Finder menu or HomePage publishing of Web photo albums simply doesn't work if you're not a .Mac member. It's poor user interface, and a poor user experience.
I hope you reconsider your position in these matters over the next sixty day. I think a severe backlash is possible, otherwise, but even with no severe reprucussions, Macintosh user's confidence will be damaged to some degree. I know that my confidence is wavering. However. I hope my feedback, alone with other user's writing, will help guild a change in .Mac policies. I know Apple has regarded feedback highly lately, and I feel this matter is very serious. It should recieve the same consideration that is present for other consumer feedback.
The main NEW item to discuss is on the intergration in OS X. A lot of the iApps and some of the OS X system is tightly intergrated with iTools (now .Mac). Someone goes to the GO menu, and he clicks "go to iDisk". It never happens, or they get some error. They try to post their photos, etc etc. You get the point. I am not saying Apple does not have a right to do as they pplease with their own services. I am not saying it should be free. However, it should have been a paid service from the beginning, maybe. Or Maybe, it should not be so tightly implimented within their own system, and they should not have an install banner saying it is free. I know the terms and conditions existed there, also.
I think Apple could have problems. Many users are not so forgiving. I LOVE Apple and the Macintosh. However, I can see how users could feel mislead by Apple. I can see how the computer itself was built around iTools to, now, be worthless without the .Mac service. There is a problem here guys...
<strong>.... I thought it was another smart marketing-trick by apple, and I still think it is (the free e-mail). </strong><hr></blockquote>
Exactly! I hope Apple "gets it" when a lot of users drop out. Homepage was a great deal for Apple too: photo galleries that had the stamp "made with a Mac", that everyone would show to friends and family.
Sure bandwidth and diskspace costs money, but so does advertising...
[quote]iTools has been around for 2.5 years. It was free. It shouldn't have been.<hr></blockquote>
We're obviously talking about the e-mail aspect, not iTools as a whole.
[quote]Hotmail doesn't compare to iTools. Hotmail gives you webmail only for free. You don't get easy access internet disk storage. You don't get POP or IMAP.<hr></blockquote>
Who said Hotmail and iTools were the same?
[quote]I find webmail interfaces very annoying and only use them when I'm away from my computer.<hr></blockquote>
That's the idea.
[quote]Maintaining Hotmail's service probably costs a great bit less than maintaining iTools. Ad revenue helps.<hr></blockquote>
So why, exactly, can't we keep our free/cheap e-mail addresses even if it means being relegated to a webmail interface?
<strong>Damn I'm pissed off now. I bought my lovely G4 and got the mac.com-adress, I already had several adresses, but i liked my mac.adress and started using it instead. I liked the punch it gave to my PC-lame-friends. I thought it was another smart marketing-trick by apple, and I still think it is (the free e-mail). But my illusion of a company that cared for the consumers died. I'm prepared to pay some, but no more than 25bucks a year or some student-discount. I know this is a regular whine-postal, but enough of these and apple might reconsider.</strong><hr></blockquote>
C5j PLEASE CHILL OUT. Life is nowhere, noway that misérable. The problem here is unrealistic expectatons of eternity. If you used iTools as your first internet gateway, started moving files from one machine to another without disks via the internet, posted some pics on the internet and then fell in love with iPhoto and started filling up your space, you did what Apple wanted... You used your new technology to open up your world. If you are affiliated with a University, you are probably used to general blundering incompetance in the IT Room, but with a smile, or an occasional shriek and resignation.
If you are at a BIG MEAN COMPANY WHERE THE IT MAN SAYS "NOTHING PERSONAL ON THE SERVER!" iTools was heaven. If you are one of the AOL unfortunates who thought a bleeping "YGM" was neato, then I'm sorry for you, but I understand.
err:
Time to Chill. I'm trying to figure out how to get an upgrade from my iTools account(s)--remember they never checked each time you registered at Apple they just gave you another one. Anyone know how? <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" />
Exactly! I hope Apple "gets it" when a lot of users drop out. Homepage was a great deal for Apple too: photo galleries that had the stamp "made with a Mac", that everyone would show to friends and family.
Sure bandwidth and diskspace costs money, but so does advertising...
Having just issued a longish decree, I have to admit the Monk's got a good point here. <img src="graemlins/embarrassed.gif" border="0" alt="[Embarrassed]" />
? How many people own more than one mac thats not in their house or is a portable. what is the use of idisk when it only works on macs and if you where at school and had access to a mac how big of file can you send when all you have at home is 56k So the question where is the value in .mac?
Sure ads and spam suck but that's how webmail is "free". I'm always surprised at how many people buy into the "free lunch" myth. Wake up people, there's no such thing as a free lunch! (Remember the ads for NetZero? "Free internet for life!" Well, now it's $9.95. Did you really think it would be free forever?) I wish people would stop whining, yes whinig about the new .Mac service. If you don't like it, don't get it. If you think there's a better value out there, go for it. "But Apple promised me it would be free forever! " Can you say naive? <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" />
Comments
<strong>iTunes, iPhoto, iMovie, ect. are all advertised as advantages of buying a mac, but what if Apple were to suddenly start charging for those too? The development costs of these are pretty high, why shouldn't Apple make money off them too?</strong><hr></blockquote>
I think you might be missing the point some people here are making. True, it cost them money to create iTunes etc. but those are one time things. They create it, we download it, and we use it. It doesn't cost them any more if I download iTunes 50 times than if I download it once.
That's not the case with iTools. IT does cost them more if i set up 50 email addresses and 50 iDisks than if I set up only one. And people did that. I'm sure people here did that. It's the abuse of the free system that lead to it's demise.
Apple knows it was a brilliant move to get a lot of users hooked into mac.com's free e-mail address. Hell, I didn't even need it and I started using it.
It's a lot of fun to tell everyone, "Don't use my mac.com e-mail address anymore, I'm too cheap to pay for it".
<img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" />
Even the horrible Microsoft offers their free services.. I'd prefer to have a proudly MAC and free email!
<strong>BTW, iTools is now defunct. Apple broke no promises regarding the length of time your account would be free. As long as iTools was around, so was the free service. No one complained when iReview went under.
If you look at the OS X press release (http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2001/mar/21osxstore.html), one of the advertised features is "free IMAP mail for Mac.com email accounts." Even if iTools is defunct, Mac.com email acounts aren't.
Also, if you look at their old FAQ (http://web.archive.org/web/20011006003921/itools.mac.com/1/help/email/pgs/mlfaq.html), you will see this line:
[quote]
Q. Can I change my email address?
A. No. Your Mac.com email address is yours for as long as you use your account.
<hr></blockquote>
I am still using my account, so my Mac.com address should still be mine, right?
<strong>Well... 100 $ for an email service a year sounds rather high ... unless mac.com really provides it for that price UNLIMITED, so u could receive files of any size...
Even the horrible Microsoft offers their free services.. I'd prefer to have a proudly MAC and free email!</strong><hr></blockquote>
Unlimited disk space and bandwidth for $100?
<img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" /> <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" /> <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" /> Nobody does that. If they do, you're welcome to try and see how they react 'cause they're lying thru their teeth.
Microsoft only offers a free version of hotmail because it's puny, full of ads, and so full of spam it's sick.
<strong>I am still using my account, so my Mac.com address should still be mine, right?</strong><hr></blockquote>
The address is still yours, however in two months time you will have to pay to keep it.
Pay the $49.99, wait 365 days and see what Apple puts on the table.
[ 07-22-2002: Message edited by: serrano ]</p>
Does it not say that a benefit of owning an Apple product is getting iTools for free with a screen to set the account up.
This is on copies of OSX that are on shelves today and will be for over another month.
I go grab one of these boxes that advertises free iTools and it's not there. Perhaps no laws broken, but that's a pretty lame excuse to use when dealing with customers.
"Oh yeah, what're you gonna do about it!?"
Again, if Microsoft had suddenly cut Hotmail off entirely and made it a pay-only option there would've been wails from all over the 'net. And the people here who think it's actually good for Apple to force people who only want to keep their e-mail address to pay $100 for a $40 service would be right in there calling Microsoft evil with everyone else.
It's got ads and is annoying in the free version, sure, but at least they didn't take my 5-year-old e-mail address away.
iTools has been around for 2.5 years. It was free. It shouldn't have been. Hotmail doesn't compare to iTools. Hotmail gives you webmail only for free. You don't get easy access internet disk storage. You don't get POP or IMAP.
myrealbox.com gives you POP and IMAP for free, with no ads.
I find webmail interfaces very annoying and only use them when I'm away from my computer.
Maintaining Hotmail's service probably costs a great bit less than maintaining iTools. Ad revenue helps.
I sent this e-mail to Apple's feedback page on the .Mac service. I though it made some good points, and so I hope you will consider these words, also.
------------------->
I am concerned over your policies with the iTools conversion to .Mac. Many Mac users are furious about the switch from the free iTools to the fee-based .Mac. Many people simply do not use iTools heavily enough to justify the added expense. Other users are bothered by the fact that much of the value of .Mac seems to be in Backup and Virex, but people who are at all serious about backup and anti-virus software probably already own equivalent software that may be significantly more capable, as certainly is the case with Dantz's Retrospect backup applications. Plus, .Mac doesn't come with any Internet access, whereas most Internet connections from standard ISPs like EarthLink already include multiple email addresses and Web space, making the decision to pay yet again for these features more difficult. And finally, people feel let down because Apple initially made a big deal about how iTools was free and was intended to be a part of the overall Macintosh experience. On your "get iTools" blurb, seen upon installing OSX, you say, "Another benefit of owning Apple products is that you'll be able to use Apple's iTools for free". iTools does not exist any longer, and the .Mac model does not include any of these services for free. With no basic free options available under .Mac, it seem Apple has mislead customers. Personally, I believe Apple is within their rights in this matter, but I still understand how people could be very upset. Honestly, it is hard for me to say these customers were not mislead at all by Apple.
Perhaps a better move would be to keep only the Mac.com e-mail address, at least a forwarding address, available for free for current users. This option would ensure that Mac.com email addresses would continue to help promote the advantages of the Macintosh at large while significantly reducing the bandwidth and disk space requirements of the service model.
However, I do have another major concern. Many .Mac features are built into Mac OS X itself and into applications like iPhoto. It doesn't look good if high-profile functionality like having the iDisk be available from a Finder menu or HomePage publishing of Web photo albums simply doesn't work if you're not a .Mac member. It's poor user interface, and a poor user experience.
I hope you reconsider your position in these matters over the next sixty day. I think a severe backlash is possible, otherwise, but even with no severe reprucussions, Macintosh user's confidence will be damaged to some degree. I know that my confidence is wavering. However. I hope my feedback, alone with other user's writing, will help guild a change in .Mac policies. I know Apple has regarded feedback highly lately, and I feel this matter is very serious. It should recieve the same consideration that is present for other consumer feedback.
-------------------------------------------------------------
The main NEW item to discuss is on the intergration in OS X. A lot of the iApps and some of the OS X system is tightly intergrated with iTools (now .Mac). Someone goes to the GO menu, and he clicks "go to iDisk". It never happens, or they get some error. They try to post their photos, etc etc. You get the point. I am not saying Apple does not have a right to do as they pplease with their own services. I am not saying it should be free. However, it should have been a paid service from the beginning, maybe. Or Maybe, it should not be so tightly implimented within their own system, and they should not have an install banner saying it is free. I know the terms and conditions existed there, also.
I think Apple could have problems. Many users are not so forgiving. I LOVE Apple and the Macintosh. However, I can see how users could feel mislead by Apple. I can see how the computer itself was built around iTools to, now, be worthless without the .Mac service. There is a problem here guys...
[ 07-23-2002: Message edited by: Donny ]</p>
<strong>.... I thought it was another smart marketing-trick by apple, and I still think it is (the free e-mail). </strong><hr></blockquote>
Exactly! I hope Apple "gets it" when a lot of users drop out. Homepage was a great deal for Apple too: photo galleries that had the stamp "made with a Mac", that everyone would show to friends and family.
Sure bandwidth and diskspace costs money, but so does advertising...
<img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" />
We're obviously talking about the e-mail aspect, not iTools as a whole.
[quote]Hotmail doesn't compare to iTools. Hotmail gives you webmail only for free. You don't get easy access internet disk storage. You don't get POP or IMAP.<hr></blockquote>
Who said Hotmail and iTools were the same?
[quote]I find webmail interfaces very annoying and only use them when I'm away from my computer.<hr></blockquote>
That's the idea.
[quote]Maintaining Hotmail's service probably costs a great bit less than maintaining iTools. Ad revenue helps.<hr></blockquote>
So why, exactly, can't we keep our free/cheap e-mail addresses even if it means being relegated to a webmail interface?
<strong>Damn I'm pissed off now. I bought my lovely G4 and got the mac.com-adress, I already had several adresses, but i liked my mac.adress and started using it instead. I liked the punch it gave to my PC-lame-friends. I thought it was another smart marketing-trick by apple, and I still think it is (the free e-mail). But my illusion of a company that cared for the consumers died. I'm prepared to pay some, but no more than 25bucks a year or some student-discount. I know this is a regular whine-postal, but enough of these and apple might reconsider.</strong><hr></blockquote>
C5j PLEASE CHILL OUT. Life is nowhere, noway that misérable. The problem here is unrealistic expectatons of eternity. If you used iTools as your first internet gateway, started moving files from one machine to another without disks via the internet, posted some pics on the internet and then fell in love with iPhoto and started filling up your space, you did what Apple wanted... You used your new technology to open up your world. If you are affiliated with a University, you are probably used to general blundering incompetance in the IT Room, but with a smile, or an occasional shriek and resignation.
If you are at a BIG MEAN COMPANY WHERE THE IT MAN SAYS "NOTHING PERSONAL ON THE SERVER!" iTools was heaven. If you are one of the AOL unfortunates who thought a bleeping "YGM" was neato, then I'm sorry for you, but I understand.
err:
Time to Chill. I'm trying to figure out how to get an upgrade from my iTools account(s)--remember they never checked each time you registered at Apple they just gave you another one. Anyone know how? <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" />
<img src="graemlins/smokin.gif" border="0" alt="[Chilling]" /> <img src="graemlins/smokin.gif" border="0" alt="[Chilling]" />
<strong>
Exactly! I hope Apple "gets it" when a lot of users drop out. Homepage was a great deal for Apple too: photo galleries that had the stamp "made with a Mac", that everyone would show to friends and family.
Sure bandwidth and diskspace costs money, but so does advertising...
<img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>
Having just issued a longish decree, I have to admit the Monk's got a good point here. <img src="graemlins/embarrassed.gif" border="0" alt="[Embarrassed]" />
Because ads and spam suck?