Golly, Gon, apologies all around for not catching that detail in the morass that is this thread, during a work day. Shall I wear the hair shirt, or would floggings do?
All is forgiven. You could lose a little sleep over it just to show you care, though.
Quote:
Noise suppression. Got it. Oddly, my fanless Cube makes more noise than the four external drives sitting next to it, but whatever works for you.
Dust buildup and visual clutter are real too. If you're sensitive to dust and if the space is small, both factors magnify obviously.
It is slightly odd that the drive inside Cube would make more noise than four others in external enclosures (there aren't any other noise sources left if it's fanless, right?) but taking one of those enclosures, adding heft and soundproofing, adding space for sound to disperse in, adding dampening material, isolating the moving components with flexible materials to prevent vibration from going into the frame will make it more quiet. That's what makes a good quiet PC case.
While true, most of the noise in the avg PC case comes from the ZOMGFOTHERMUCKINFAN in my experience. It's like they cram little tiny Smurf 747s in there, for god's sake.
Yeah, I don't get it either. Maybe it's the drive in the Cube going belly up, maybe I just have good external enclosures (OWC Mercury), but in either case, the external drives add very little overall noise. It's all certainly, no doubt about it, *MUCH* more quiet than the B/W tower I had. Dear god, that thing sounded like a jet.
Don't need much power - the iMac's power is plenty
20" or 24" screen that's non-glossy and 4:3 - 16:9 is for watching movies. I watch movies on TV. When working on the computer I need more height - bye bye iMac
Don't need slots, fancy graphics
See? My specs are way below the entry-level Mac Pro, but the mini's too small, and I don't like Apple's screen choice.
I'm not as serious about photography as I would like to be, so I will probably end up getting an iMac, even though the screen is glossy and short. But this is a compromise I would not have to make if I were not buying Apple. Apple really doesn't have the computer I want.
Alternatively, I might get a mini with an external hard disk and monitor, but that's weak (the computer) and slow (an external disk is not as fast as an internal). It's also more cables.
-The graphic card options you want instead of what Apple thinks you need. Believe me what Jobs and crew do with their Macs and what I do with mine don't appear to be similar.
-PCI-E X1 slots to make my machine future and Steve Jobs proof.
-Would like my power supply and desk not be be clogged up by external devices
Look, before we get the PC heathen/ you don't know what an iMac is all about stuff let be put that all to rest. I have one of the new 20" iMacs. It's a beautiful machine. For a family computer I would recommend nothing less. The only thing I can really fault it for in that context is lack of a TV tuner to give it full media center capabilities. As a prosumer machine, it has its limitations. In fact, it has many of the same limitations my Performa 5200CD did back in 1995 and its thin design has added some brand new ones. There needs to be different choices for different types of users.
I'd like a mini-tower for cost reasons. If such a beast were fairly nicely equiped for about $12-15 hundred, I would tend to upgrade more often. I have an iMac 24 now (the original) with a 500g drive and 2 gig of RAM. If I were to upgrade to the new iMac 24 aluminum, it would cost me around $2500. I am not sure about this as I haven't priced it out for an equivalent configuration.
Now a mini-tower would have to be as quiet as my iMac. I had a MDD G4 dual gig machine and it always sounded like a jet was landing. I have not heard a more recent full-tower in a quiet room to see how noticeable it is.
If I had a mini-tower and a good 24" LCD monitor right now ... and a new mini-tower came out, I would consider ploping down $1500 to upgrade to Apple's latest mini-tower. I might upgrade the LCD monitor every 3 years or so.
Now if Apple were listening to me (ha ha), I would request several slots (4 ??) of RAM expandability and a user-changable SATA drive. 2 drives would be nice, but that would not be a show-stopper for me.
If I had all of that, my Apple life would almost be perfect. Maybe 3-4 times a year, I need to be somewhat portable. Right now, with my iMac24 (and my iMac20 G5 before), I have a iLugger carrying case. That let's me lug the thing safely on the rare occasion that I need to. If I have the mini-tower/LCD panel combo, I could put the LCD in the iLugger case (along with keyboard/mouse) and I know that the iLugger people would come out with a case for any of Apple's new offering. That's portable enough for me.
Another option (and I have mentioned this before a while back on this forum) would to have Apple come up with a way to SEEMLESSLY switch between a laptop and a mini-tower (or iMac or full-tower or whatever). This means that my home folder has to sync whenever the two are on the same LAN and even the Apps sync, desktop settings, serial numbers, etc. If the two were connected, one would be the "master" and there could be automatic and transparent sharing between the two (or three, etc). I'd love to sit on the couch working on something and then later continue working on it on my full-sized machine without having to even think about whether or not it's synced or not. I know I mentioned syncing software/serial numbers and there's a definite legal issue related to this, but I think it could be solved (sharing software via iTunes - the DRM app ??).
One last thing - I love the iMac form factor - it's the neatest thing around. My PC buddies gasp in awe when they see mine. I just don't want to replace the monitor every year....
Here's the latests rumors/leaked information about the upcoming regular desktop penryn-based chips from Intel, according to Digitimes:
Quote:
Intel recently increased the number of 45nm-based CPUs it plans to launch for desktop PCs to nine, according to sources at motherboard makers.
Within the nine CPUs, five will be dual-core processors (Wolfdale) and the remaining four will be quad-core (Yorkfield). All will adopt a 1333MHz FSB. Model numbers for the upcoming products are still undecided, noted the sources.
Four of the five Wolfdale processors will have core frequencies of 3.16GHz, 3.0GHz, 2.83GHz and 2.66GHz, while the frequency of the remaining one is unknown. All five Wolfdale processors will feature 6MB L2 cache, detailed the sources.
Three of the four Yorkfield processors will have core frequencies of 2.83GHz, 2.66GHz and 2.5GHz with the remainder as yet unknown. Three will include 12MB L2 cache while the 2.5GHz version will have 6MB.
Given what we already know about the penryn-based Xeons, and the current desktop line-up, my guess is the following:
regular quads from 2.50 to 3.00GHz, from $224 to $530
regular duals from 2.50 to 3.16GHz, from $163 to $266
extreme edition quads 3.16 and 3.33GHz, from $851 to $999
extreme edition duals, starting at 3.33GHz and $530
There is one point that has been missed. The mii was also designed for PC users who would like to give the Mac a try without a heavy investment.
How many of these users would like to move up, but be able to keep their investment in their (large?) display - and they still love their mouse & keyboard? What is their option? The Mac Pro and the costs associated with that might well keep them away.
Something in between is what this market is looking for. Room for 2 drives (nice with time Machine), ability to add memory, choices in the areas of the processor Duo or Quad) and graphics.
The issue for me is what will Apple do to keep these PC users that decide they like their Mac mini and want to move up a bit?
interesting observation Marvin, if Cube reinvented what will happen to Mac Mini (will it survive?)
I think that there's a possibility it might not survive if they do the cube a certain way. However, dedicated media centers are popular for a number of reasons and the Mini form factor will still appeal to some people.
I reckon all Apple have to do is drop the higher up model Mini, which is generally considered to be overpriced anyway. Then start the cube pricing at maybe £100 above it with the same GPU as the low end iMac, thus eradicating GMAs.
People who will buy the Mini will be people looking at a computer for their parents, people who want a more powerful media center than the Apple TV and people who do all sorts of fancy things with them like use them in cars or in server racks.
This way they cover all bases:
Mini: media center
iMac: niche all-in-one
Mac Pro: for people who want both a computer and a second home to live in. I believe they modelled it on an elephant.
not that i need a mini tower, but there was so much talk... i just had to do a mockup
Nice mockup but why would any Mac have an AppleTV right on top of it? Macs can do everything AppleTV can do, only better. If you had an AppleTV it would be in another part of the house, no?
Nice mockup but why would any Mac have an AppleTV right on top of it? Macs can do everything AppleTV can do, only better. If you had an AppleTV it would be in another part of the house, no?
That is for demonstration purposes to show you the size of the computer, since the dimensions of Apple TV are already known.
Comments
Golly, Gon, apologies all around for not catching that detail in the morass that is this thread, during a work day. Shall I wear the hair shirt, or would floggings do?
All is forgiven. You could lose a little sleep over it just to show you care, though.
Noise suppression. Got it. Oddly, my fanless Cube makes more noise than the four external drives sitting next to it, but whatever works for you.
Dust buildup and visual clutter are real too. If you're sensitive to dust and if the space is small, both factors magnify obviously.
It is slightly odd that the drive inside Cube would make more noise than four others in external enclosures (there aren't any other noise sources left if it's fanless, right?) but taking one of those enclosures, adding heft and soundproofing, adding space for sound to disperse in, adding dampening material, isolating the moving components with flexible materials to prevent vibration from going into the frame will make it more quiet. That's what makes a good quiet PC case.
Yeah, I don't get it either. Maybe it's the drive in the Cube going belly up, maybe I just have good external enclosures (OWC Mercury), but in either case, the external drives add very little overall noise. It's all certainly, no doubt about it, *MUCH* more quiet than the B/W tower I had. Dear god, that thing sounded like a jet.
-prefer separate monitor
-prefer slots for upgrades or for keeping up with techology changes
-tired of a plethora of cables running all over my desk
-"I like options"
I don't need nor can afford the Mac Pro
-dual dual core processors for me are overkill
-fancy schmancy ram with high prices do me no good
- 4 GB RAM, 500 GB hard disk - bye bye mini
- Don't need much power - the iMac's power is plenty
- 20" or 24" screen that's non-glossy and 4:3 - 16:9 is for watching movies. I watch movies on TV. When working on the computer I need more height - bye bye iMac
- Don't need slots, fancy graphics
See? My specs are way below the entry-level Mac Pro, but the mini's too small, and I don't like Apple's screen choice.I'm not as serious about photography as I would like to be, so I will probably end up getting an iMac, even though the screen is glossy and short. But this is a compromise I would not have to make if I were not buying Apple. Apple really doesn't have the computer I want.
Alternatively, I might get a mini with an external hard disk and monitor, but that's weak (the computer) and slow (an external disk is not as fast as an internal). It's also more cables.
No good answer here.
On this day of testing we registered an ambient noise floor of right around 20 dB-A.
...
Antec P182 SE:
12" from the front: 22 db
12" from GPU/left side: 23db
12" from CPU/right side: 24db
12" from top: 25db
All I can say is.. holy shit. This thing is more quiet than cancer.
They weren't using any solid state/fanless stuff. Main components were a X2 3800+ and GF6600 GT. Esp. the 6600GT is not known for being quiet.
-Dual full size optical drives
-Two hard drive bays
-The graphic card options you want instead of what Apple thinks you need. Believe me what Jobs and crew do with their Macs and what I do with mine don't appear to be similar.
-PCI-E X1 slots to make my machine future and Steve Jobs proof.
-Would like my power supply and desk not be be clogged up by external devices
Look, before we get the PC heathen/ you don't know what an iMac is all about stuff let be put that all to rest. I have one of the new 20" iMacs. It's a beautiful machine. For a family computer I would recommend nothing less. The only thing I can really fault it for in that context is lack of a TV tuner to give it full media center capabilities. As a prosumer machine, it has its limitations. In fact, it has many of the same limitations my Performa 5200CD did back in 1995 and its thin design has added some brand new ones. There needs to be different choices for different types of users.
1) Upgradability
2) Expandability
3) The ability to upgrade various parts as you can afford, at your time so that you are not forced into an all new hardware purchase.
Now a mini-tower would have to be as quiet as my iMac. I had a MDD G4 dual gig machine and it always sounded like a jet was landing. I have not heard a more recent full-tower in a quiet room to see how noticeable it is.
If I had a mini-tower and a good 24" LCD monitor right now ... and a new mini-tower came out, I would consider ploping down $1500 to upgrade to Apple's latest mini-tower. I might upgrade the LCD monitor every 3 years or so.
Now if Apple were listening to me (ha ha), I would request several slots (4 ??) of RAM expandability and a user-changable SATA drive. 2 drives would be nice, but that would not be a show-stopper for me.
If I had all of that, my Apple life would almost be perfect. Maybe 3-4 times a year, I need to be somewhat portable. Right now, with my iMac24 (and my iMac20 G5 before), I have a iLugger carrying case. That let's me lug the thing safely on the rare occasion that I need to. If I have the mini-tower/LCD panel combo, I could put the LCD in the iLugger case (along with keyboard/mouse) and I know that the iLugger people would come out with a case for any of Apple's new offering. That's portable enough for me.
Another option (and I have mentioned this before a while back on this forum) would to have Apple come up with a way to SEEMLESSLY switch between a laptop and a mini-tower (or iMac or full-tower or whatever). This means that my home folder has to sync whenever the two are on the same LAN and even the Apps sync, desktop settings, serial numbers, etc. If the two were connected, one would be the "master" and there could be automatic and transparent sharing between the two (or three, etc). I'd love to sit on the couch working on something and then later continue working on it on my full-sized machine without having to even think about whether or not it's synced or not. I know I mentioned syncing software/serial numbers and there's a definite legal issue related to this, but I think it could be solved (sharing software via iTunes - the DRM app ??).
One last thing - I love the iMac form factor - it's the neatest thing around. My PC buddies gasp in awe when they see mine. I just don't want to replace the monitor every year....
Apple rules !!
Phil
Believe me what Jobs and crew do with their Macs and what I do with mine don't appear to be similar.
-PCI-E X1 slots to make my machine future and Steve Jobs proof.
I needed that, thanks!
Intel recently increased the number of 45nm-based CPUs it plans to launch for desktop PCs to nine, according to sources at motherboard makers.
Within the nine CPUs, five will be dual-core processors (Wolfdale) and the remaining four will be quad-core (Yorkfield). All will adopt a 1333MHz FSB. Model numbers for the upcoming products are still undecided, noted the sources.
Four of the five Wolfdale processors will have core frequencies of 3.16GHz, 3.0GHz, 2.83GHz and 2.66GHz, while the frequency of the remaining one is unknown. All five Wolfdale processors will feature 6MB L2 cache, detailed the sources.
Three of the four Yorkfield processors will have core frequencies of 2.83GHz, 2.66GHz and 2.5GHz with the remainder as yet unknown. Three will include 12MB L2 cache while the 2.5GHz version will have 6MB.
Given what we already know about the penryn-based Xeons, and the current desktop line-up, my guess is the following:
regular quads from 2.50 to 3.00GHz, from $224 to $530
regular duals from 2.50 to 3.16GHz, from $163 to $266
extreme edition quads 3.16 and 3.33GHz, from $851 to $999
extreme edition duals, starting at 3.33GHz and $530
Taken from the 9a499 gallery they have - http://www.thinksecret.com/archives/...9-2/index.html
How many of these users would like to move up, but be able to keep their investment in their (large?) display - and they still love their mouse & keyboard? What is their option? The Mac Pro and the costs associated with that might well keep them away.
Something in between is what this market is looking for. Room for 2 drives (nice with time Machine), ability to add memory, choices in the areas of the processor Duo or Quad) and graphics.
The issue for me is what will Apple do to keep these PC users that decide they like their Mac mini and want to move up a bit?
interesting observation Marvin, if Cube reinvented what will happen to Mac Mini (will it survive?)
I think that there's a possibility it might not survive if they do the cube a certain way. However, dedicated media centers are popular for a number of reasons and the Mini form factor will still appeal to some people.
I reckon all Apple have to do is drop the higher up model Mini, which is generally considered to be overpriced anyway. Then start the cube pricing at maybe £100 above it with the same GPU as the low end iMac, thus eradicating GMAs.
People who will buy the Mini will be people looking at a computer for their parents, people who want a more powerful media center than the Apple TV and people who do all sorts of fancy things with them like use them in cars or in server racks.
This way they cover all bases:
Mini: media center
iMac: niche all-in-one
Mac Pro: for people who want both a computer and a second home to live in. I believe they modelled it on an elephant.
Cube: for everybody else (all 500 million of 'em)
not that i need a mini tower, but there was so much talk... i just had to do a mockup
Could it have a full size / cheaper / faster tray loading drive?
not that i need a mini tower, but there was so much talk... i just had to do a mockup
Nice mockup but why would any Mac have an AppleTV right on top of it? Macs can do everything AppleTV can do, only better. If you had an AppleTV it would be in another part of the house, no?
Nice mockup but why would any Mac have an AppleTV right on top of it? Macs can do everything AppleTV can do, only better. If you had an AppleTV it would be in another part of the house, no?
That is for demonstration purposes to show you the size of the computer, since the dimensions of Apple TV are already known.
and mrtotes? steve told me "no" ;-)