Blu-ray vs. HD DVD (2007)

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  • Reply 2881 of 4650
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post


    It's a legit question. I'm looking at statistics but I don't know what is and isn't counted.



    I know Wal-mart isn't included and while that doesn't make a huge difference for HD movies it means Videoscan and Soundscan numbers for DVD and CD cannot be trusted as they don't include the sales of the #1 vendor.



    You may think it is a legitimate question, and indeed it is, however given past evidence of your postings, once the proof is provided you will likely complain that "Ike and Hilda" arn't represented and again deride the numbers.



    From this view, perhaps the question should be put to you, Whos numbers (not ranks) do you need to see as evidence?



    I am personally waiting until a $300 BD player is released, to see if you will buy it as you said you would, or to see what excuse you provide for NOT buying it, either way it will be an interesting day and the aticipation is quite enjoyable
  • Reply 2882 of 4650
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bitemymac View Post


    You see.... it's all in your head...





    All in all, this is a debate/discussion and usually would read as one sided posts. It should be the other party's job to support the debate to refute?....



    As long as it's based on credible facts....... I'm okay with it. I'm getting little tired of all the FUD I'm reading these days, though.



    I think we should agree to disagree as to whether or not its all in MY head or not



    If your getting tired of reading all the FUD then stop posting it {couldn't resist it}



    Speaking of credible facts, hows the search going for a source of sales figures YOU trust? {do I really need to add this is a genuine question?}
  • Reply 2883 of 4650
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Guartho View Post


    Our Wal-Mart is now carryinig HD content. 3 titles, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, Are We Done Yet?, and Wild Hogs. Those three are on Blu-ray for $25. Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles is also on HDDVD for $30. There are still no players other than the PS3 available. Our Wal-Mart is pretty much bottom of the WM totem pole and is the only place to get HD toys within 65 miles. Looks like Wal-Mart hasn't decided to axe HDDVD yet, but it also looks like it won't be long.



    Interesting if anecdotal, that there is a greater slection of BD and one player on sale, compared to one title and no player of the HD-DVD format which still costs more for the software. It sends an interesting message to all the J6P families within a 65 mile radius.



    HD-DVD is more expensive and you can't play it on anything.



    I wonder if Tosh wern't in such a hurry to slash pricing could they afford a bigger budget to get more shop displays up? chicken and the egg I suppose.
  • Reply 2884 of 4650
    bitemymacbitemymac Posts: 1,147member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Walter Slocombe View Post


    Speaking of credible facts, hows the search going for a source of sales figures YOU trust? {do I really need to add this is a genuine question?}



    It seems that the both formats together as HiDef market is too small to be considered as contending format to SD-DVD at this point. The most people really don't care to know or would want to know for the time being as it seems. Hence, I'm still looking. However, if anyone wants to compromise and go by other sources and be happy, that's their choice as well.



    When the HiDef formats together make up about 15% of the all optical movie disc sales....... I'll make sure to let you know where to look for a source of sales figures WE can all trust and agree on. Remind me when we get there....
  • Reply 2885 of 4650
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bitemymac View Post


    It seems that the both formats together as HiDef market is too small to be considered as contending format to SD-DVD at this point. The most people really don't care to know or would want to know for the time being as it seems. Hence, I'm still looking. However, if anyone wants to compromise and go by other sources and be happy, that's their choice as well.



    When the HiDef formats together make up about 15% of the all optical movie disc sales....... I'll make sure to let you know where to look for a source of sales figures WE can all trust and agree on. Remind me when we get there....



    I was going to ignore this thread today, but I can't



    I think I'm pretty much in agreement with what you post here, primarily the market is, as yet, too small. 15% would be rather cool indeed, compaired to what it is at the moment (around 1%?)



    So a couple of questions for anyone that wants them.



    setting aside a format war (winning or co-existance) for the moment, would anyone like to hazard a guess at how long it might take a/the next gen format/s to reach 15% ?



    also, I asked earlier in the thread, What were the sales numbers for LD like at this distance out from inception?
  • Reply 2886 of 4650
    marzetta7marzetta7 Posts: 1,323member
    Paramount Drops Blu-ray Support; Does Not Include Spielberg Movies



    http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=412



    Quote:

    Despite selling more movies on the Blu-ray format, Paramount has announced today that they will begin supporting HD DVD exclusively. This move, rumored to be driven by a $150M exclusivity deal with the HD DVD group, comes after Paramount began favoring Blu-ray releases with higher quality video encodings and more HD features. The deal covers all of Paramount's properties excluding those directed by Steven Spielberg.



    The move will inevitably lengthen a format war which should never have been. Consumers will unfortunately suffer the most, as they will be forced to support a format which is being supported by corporations instead of consumers. No word was given as to how long the exclusivity agreement is for, but rumors indicate through 2008.



    High definition enthusiasts can now only hope that a DVD-A/SACD situation hasn't been initiated by this decision.



    Wow,...just wow. Great news for HD DVD indeed, I'll admit. However, I think we can now thank Microsoft for prolonging this war now on inevitably.



    Pretty sad. Not so sure if this is great for the market and the conumers as a whole. Just good for Microsoft and their goal in stifling the opitical disc market.
  • Reply 2887 of 4650
    frank777frank777 Posts: 5,839member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by marzetta7 View Post


    Just good for Microsoft and their goal in stifling the opitical disc market.



    As opposed to Sony's goal of stifling the optical disc market?



    Redmond's done a lot of stupid things, but they haven't tried to install root-kits on computers.

    Microsoft is no longer the threat they once were, but Sony has shown they haven't learned anything from the Betamax, Mini-Disc or Memory Stick fiascos.



    Wasn't Sony also fined for keeping CD prices artificially high?



    Sony deserves to lose the format war here, period. Anything less will just encourage them to treat consumers with even less respect.
  • Reply 2888 of 4650
    glossgloss Posts: 506member
    Yeah, I just read that. Yikes.



    gg prolonging format wars.
  • Reply 2889 of 4650
    cam'roncam'ron Posts: 503member
    Something doesn't quite add up here. Paramount = HD-DVD exclusive, Blockbuster = Blu-Ray exclusive? Same company....hmmm.



    Edit: Apparently I live in a bubble and never knew that Viacom sold off its portion of Blockbuster. Damnit, I thought I was on to something here...
  • Reply 2890 of 4650
    marzetta7marzetta7 Posts: 1,323member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post


    As opposed to Sony's goal of stifling the optical disc market?



    Redmond's done a lot of stupid things, but they haven't tried to install root-kits on computers.

    Microsoft is no longer the threat they once were, but Sony has shown they haven't learned anything from the Betamax, Mini-Disc or Memory Stick fiascos.



    Wasn't Sony also fined for keeping CD prices artificially high?



    Sony deserves to lose the format war here, period. Anything less will just encourage them to treat consumers with even less respect.



    Your ignorance and hate for Sony knows no bounds. As has been reiterated many times, most studios and ce companies support Blu-ray, not just Sony.



    What I'm referring to is the rumored "agreement" between the HD DVD group (Microsoft and Toshiba) and Paramount.



    Why and how, other than pure Sony hate, do you come to the conclusion that Blu-ray needs to lose this format war?



    Microsoft no longer a threat? They still monopolize the entire computer industry, and now your rootin for them to get their paws on the HD market in the form of digital downloads? Interesting to say the least how your mind functions.
  • Reply 2891 of 4650
    frank777frank777 Posts: 5,839member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by marzetta7 View Post


    Your ignorance and hate for Sony knows no bounds. As has been reiterated many times, most studios and ce companies support Blu-ray, not just Sony.



    What I'm referring to is the rumored "agreement" between the HD DVD group (Microsoft and Toshiba) and Paramount.



    Why and how, other than pure Sony hate, do you come to the conclusion that Blu-ray needs to lose this format war?



    Microsoft no longer a threat? They still monopolize the entire computer industry, and now your rootin for them to get their paws on the HD market in the form of digital downloads? Interesting to say the least how your mind functions.



    Hate is too strong a word, but I definitely want to see Sony take a beating in this format war.



    That is the primary reason behind my choice. Others may care about codecs or disc size and such, but I simply want to see Sony humbled. I've been upfront about that.



    And Blu-Ray IS primarily a Sony backed format, though they have tried to open it up more than their previous attempts at cornering the market.
  • Reply 2892 of 4650
    frank777frank777 Posts: 5,839member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by marzetta7 View Post


    What I'm referring to is the rumored "agreement" between the HD DVD group (Microsoft and Toshiba) and Paramount.



    BTW, it's not a rumour.
  • Reply 2893 of 4650
    bitemymacbitemymac Posts: 1,147member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by marzetta7 View Post


    Paramount Drops Blu-ray Support; Does Not Include Spielberg Movies



    http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=412



    Wow,...just wow. Great news for HD DVD indeed, I'll admit. However, I think we can now thank Microsoft for prolonging this war now on inevitably.



    Pretty sad. Not so sure if this is great for the market and the conumers as a whole. Just good for Microsoft and their goal in stifling the opitical disc market.





    I think this is a bad news for HiDef market as a whole and the consumers. The better news would have been Universal, Disney, Sony, & Fox going neutral, but I guess the Paranount HD-DVD exclusivity will place a little more balnaced leverage for both formats.



    When Warner & Paramount initially announced neutral support, I think Disney & Fox should have done the same, but it's obvious someone's child's play is shooting oneself on the foot.



    This paramount HD-DVD exclusivity makes me even harder to support Blu-Ray, now. I will have to take adantage of the region free HD-DVD imports & SD-DVD for Blu-Ray exclusive titles for little longer.
  • Reply 2894 of 4650
    marzetta7marzetta7 Posts: 1,323member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post


    BTW, it's not a rumour.



    Oy. Stay with me. I'm going to try and be specific as I can.



    I fully realize that Paramount has decided to go HD DVD exclusive and that it is not just a rumor. That is why I posted it here first in the first place.



    What I am referring to is the apparent flip flops companies have been doing after a big company like Microsoft pays them a visit. In this case, the "rumored" 150 million dollar agreement for exclusivity between Paramount and the HD DVD group. Interesting that the same think happened to HP after Microsoft was present with them complaining about their Blu-ray exclusivity in the early stages of the format war--that they, HP, totally did a reversal about the benefits of Blu-ray technology and downplayed them and went neutral.



    I don't see this as a coincidence whatsoever. I think Microsoft is intentionally abusing their monopolistic powers to try and stifle the optical disc market for their own gain--in the digital download realm. It's pretty simple to see. Unfortunately, you have companies like HP and now Paramount play right into their hands, and ultimately for Microsoft's benefit. Why make Microsoft richer? Why take a step backward in having a unified HD format?;as prior evidence would show, the market only had one holdout--Universal.



    It's just interesting to see how deep Microsoft's grasp goes. God save my living room.
  • Reply 2895 of 4650
    bitemymacbitemymac Posts: 1,147member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by marzetta7 View Post


    Oy. Stay with me. I'm going to try and be specific as I can.



    I fully realize that Paramount has decided to go HD DVD exclusive and that it is not just a rumor. That is why I posted it here first in the first place.



    What I am referring to is the apparent flip flops companies have been doing after a big company like Microsoft pays them a visit. In this case, the "rumored" 150 million dollar agreement for exclusivity between Paramount and the HD DVD group. Interesting that the same think happened to HP after Microsoft was present with them complaining about their Blu-ray exclusivity in the early stages of the format war--that they, HP, totally did a reversal about the benefits of Blu-ray technology and downplayed them and went neutral.



    I don't see this as a coincidence whatsoever. I think Microsoft is intentionally abusing their monopolistic powers to try and stifle the optical disc market for their own gain--in the digital download realm. It's pretty simple to see. Unfortunately, you have companies like HP and now Paramount play right into their hands, and ultimately for Microsoft's benefit. Why make Microsoft richer? Why take a step backward in having a unified HD format?;as prior evidence would show, the market only had one holdout--Universal.



    It's just interesting to see how deep Microsoft's grasp goes. God save my living room.



    and.... Disney and Fox?..... Wonder who's playing them?.... (Sony).....



    the reality is that everyone is in it for the money..... blame money, not the companies... BTW, I read that from somewhere..... so... please no interrogations necessary....
  • Reply 2896 of 4650
    frank777frank777 Posts: 5,839member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by marzetta7 View Post


    What I am referring to is the apparent flip flops companies have been doing after a big company like Microsoft pays them a visit. In this case, the "rumored" 150 million dollar agreement for exclusivity between Paramount and the HD DVD group. Interesting that the same think happened to HP after Microsoft was present with them complaining about their Blu-ray exclusivity in the early stages of the format war--that they, HP, totally did a reversal about the benefits of Blu-ray technology and downplayed them and went neutral.



    I don't see this as a coincidence whatsoever. I think Microsoft is intentionally abusing their monopolistic powers to try and stifle the optical disc market for their own gain--in the digital download realm. It's pretty simple to see. Unfortunately, you have companies like HP and now Paramount play right into their hands, and ultimately for Microsoft's benefit. Why make Microsoft richer? Why take a step backward in having a unified HD format?;as prior evidence would show, the market only had one holdout--Universal.



    It's just interesting to see how deep Microsoft's grasp goes. God save my living room.



    Interesting conspiracy theory, but without basis at the moment. Redmond's interest in which format prevails has partially to do with royalties from the use of their in-house tech on some of the discs (VC1?). The bigger picture lies with messing with Sony and the war between the XBox and the Playstation.



    None of this has to do with digital downloads. You don't need to control a disc format to control the world of downloads. Apple has no leverage in the CD production world and it did not stop them from dominating with iTunes.



    I have no idea where you get the idea that MS wants to dominate HD discs simply to make money on them. Their interest in solely in beating the PS3. That becomes harder to do if every hi-def player maker is paying a portion of their royalties to Sony.



    And while Redmond is likely throwing whatever weight they have in this direction, I think your raising of Microsoft's involvement here is mostly FUD. The primary driver behind HD-DVD adoption is still Toshiba. I think any payments to Paramount arising from this deal are coming from royalties Toshiba and the HD-DVD group are forgoing in the interest of keeping the format competitive.
  • Reply 2897 of 4650
    elderlocelderloc Posts: 146member
    It doesn't matter which format wins everyone is out to make money, everyone wants their product to be the dominate one. At the end of the day no one cares about the customer, it is all about money, they will sell what the consumer wants. Both formats have pros and cons, but there have been wars like this for years, DVD +-R, DVDA/SCD, Beta max / VHS. I applaud who ever put the deal together, the format will be won by who ever spends the most money buying people out. I just hope we end up with the best sound and video, but that might not be the case. Hell Apple went through this, it's not about being better, it about being smarter when it comes to marketing, Joe six pack does not care about quality, hence the reason Dell has become the Walmart of PC's.



    Even after all these years It still surprises me that people think that it's about something other than money. No matter what the product is, it's always about making money, companies are in business to make money period.
  • Reply 2898 of 4650
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Walter Slocombe View Post


    I was going to ignore this thread today, but I can't



    I think I'm pretty much in agreement with what you post here, primarily the market is, as yet, too small. 15% would be rather cool indeed, compaired to what it is at the moment (around 1%?)



    So a couple of questions for anyone that wants them.



    setting aside a format war (winning or co-existance) for the moment, would anyone like to hazard a guess at how long it might take a/the next gen format/s to reach 15% ?



    also, I asked earlier in the thread, What were the sales numbers for LD like at this distance out from inception?



    On the 15% question, probably never.



    I don't have a clue about laserdisc figures but IMO from the get-go it was designed as a niche product. People were commited to their VHS machines and its recording ability.



    BTW, I was gone five days and when I got back on line today I noticed nothing has changed, there's the same old, I'll be polite and call it mud slinging not the more apt term someone else used. One person blamed the Blu-ray fanboys, while at the same time slinging a couple of handfulls.



    That was a big win for HD-DVD with the Paramount announcement. It's a big reason why I replied "never" to the 15% level. I think what most people don't realize is that there's a limited window here for a HD format to succeed, a format war, and it is indeed a war with the amount of money being thrown around and risked, is very detrimental as it gives J6P that much more incentive to sit this one out. SD-DVD is good enough and priced right for most people.
  • Reply 2899 of 4650
    One more thing about the Paramount news, does that mean that the B-d consortium will now feel a great deal of pressure to make a deal with Universal to go neutral, one that they simply can't refuse?
  • Reply 2900 of 4650
    marzetta7marzetta7 Posts: 1,323member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post


    Interesting conspiracy theory, but without basis at the moment. Redmond's interest in which format prevails has partially to do with royalties from the use of their in-house tech on some of the discs (VC1?). The bigger picture lies with messing with Sony and the war between the XBox and the Playstation.



    None of this has to do with digital downloads. You don't need to control a disc format to control the world of downloads. Apple has no leverage in the CD production world and it did not stop them from dominating with iTunes.



    I have no idea where you get the idea that MS wants to dominate HD discs simply to make money on them. Their interest in solely in beating the PS3. That becomes harder to do if every hi-def player maker is paying a portion of their royalties to Sony.



    And while Redmond is likely throwing whatever weight they have in this direction, I think your raising of Microsoft's involvement here is mostly FUD. The primary driver behind HD-DVD adoption is still Toshiba. I think any payments to Paramount arising from this deal are coming from royalties Toshiba and the HD-DVD group are forgoing in the interest of keeping the format competitive.



    No what's interesting is that insiders also appear to "know" the same thing I just stated about Microsoft...



    http://www.thedigitalbits.com/#mytwocents



    Quote:

    Well... the high-definition format war just got more confusing for consumers, and you can thank the hubris of the folks at Microsoft for it. Their HD-DVD format (because I'm sorry, can anyone really say it still belongs to Toshiba at this point?) badly needed a shot in the arm going into the holiday season, and just got it thanks to suitcases full of cash from the Microsoft camp. You ready for this? Here it is:



    Microsoft has paid DreamWorks and Paramount so much money that they've decided to join Universal in the HD-DVD exclusive camp. No kidding.



    None of the participants in this deal are willing to openly disclose just how MUCH money was exchanged, but the L.A. Weekly is reporting (based in part on a confidential report from media analysis firm Pali Research) that it was in the neighborhood of $50 million in "promotional considerations" for Paramount and $100 million for DreamWorks. I'm sure they're also getting lots of free or discounted VC-1 compression and HDi authoring services, along with prime placement on Xbox Live too. Is anyone else just disgusted by Microsoft's naked, shameless financial influence in this thing? That Hollywood is a greedy place should be obvious to all by now, if it wasn't already. The HD-DVD format can't win any other way than for Microsoft to PAY studios off to stay exclusive. And then they have the balls to claim the Blu-ray Disc camp is involved in antitrust violations. Wow.



    I'll tell you, this doesn't change our opinion of the eventual outcome of the format war too much. HD-DVD is never going to win this thing. The best it can hope for at this rate, even with the paid involvment of Paramount and DreamWorks, is to stay in the game. But let's face it... if money has to be involved for HD-DVD to stay in the game, that says a lot right there. And while Paramount and DreamWorks will no doubt earn lots of scorn from the rest of the industry, and they'll each make a couple extra movies with Microsoft's money while their stockholders giggle with glee, eventually business realities will dictate that they'll change their tune again. Unless Microsoft pays them more money still. One wonders if Universal just got another paycheck too.



    By the way, if anyone doubts that Microsoft's real reason for involving itself in all this is to slow the adoption of next-generation discs by confusing consumers with a continuing format war so their own Xbox Live service can continue to grow and dominate the movie and TV downloading market, you'd better think twice. Because you can bet that while they'll continue to play at supporting HD-DVD, lots of those brand, spanking new high-def transfers will end up on Xbox Live too and for a lot cheaper than the discs.



    Anyway, here's the official press release from Paramount and DreamWorks. And I'd like to call your attention to the final sentence in this press release, because I think it tells you EVERYTHING you need to know about this announcement:



    Paramount and DreamWorks Animation Each Declare Exclusive Support for HD DVD



    Movies Distributed by Paramount Home Entertainment Including Paramount Pictures, DreamWorks Animation SKG, DreamWorks Pictures, Paramount Vantage, Nickelodeon Movies and MTV Films to be Released Exclusively in HD DVD Exclusive Program To Begin with Release of "Blades of Glory," Followed by "Transformers" and "Shrek the Third," Films Representing More Than $1.5 Billion in Combined Worldwide Box Office



    LOS ANGELES, Aug. 20 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- Paramount Pictures, a unit of Viacom Inc. (NYSE: VIA and VIA.B) and DreamWorks Animation SKG (NYSE: DWA), each announced today that they will exclusively support the next-generation HD DVD format on a worldwide basis. The exclusive HD DVD commitment will include all movies distributed by Paramount Pictures, DreamWorks Pictures, Paramount Vantage, Nickelodeon Movies and MTV Films, as well as movies from DreamWorks Animation, which are distributed exclusively by Paramount Home Entertainment.



    The companies each said that the decision to distribute exclusively in the HD DVD format resulted from an extensive evaluation of current market offerings, which confirmed the clear benefits of HD DVD, particularly its market-ready technology and lower manufacturing costs Paramount Home Entertainment will launch its exclusive HD DVD program with the release of the blockbuster comedy hit "Blades of Glory" on August 28th and follow with two of the biggest grossing movies of the year "Transformers" and "Shrek the Third". These three titles alone represent more than $1.5 billion in box office ticket sales worldwide.



    "The combination of Paramount and DreamWorks Animation brings a critical mass of current box office hits to consumers with a line-up of live action and animated films that are perfect for HD DVD," stated Brad Grey, Chairman and CEO of Paramount Pictures, which is currently the leading studio in domestic box office. "Part of our vision is to aggressively extend our movies beyond the theater, and deliver the quality and features that appeal to our audience. I believe HD DVD is not only the affordable high quality choice for consumers, but also the smart choice for Paramount."



    "We decided to release "Shrek the Third" and other DreamWorks Animation titles exclusively on HD DVD because we believe it is the best format to bring high quality home entertainment to a key segment of our audience -- families," stated DreamWorks Animation CEO, Jeffrey Katzenberg. "We believe the combination of this year's low-priced HD DVD players and the commitment to release a significant number of hit titles in the fall makes HD DVD the best way to view movies at home."



    With the rapid increase of HD TV screens in households, and audiences wanting to enjoy the total entertainment experience, HD DVD has emerged as the most affordable way for consumers to watch their movies in high definition. In addition to pristine quality, HD DVD also offers consumers the chance to personalize the movie-watching experience, to interact with their movies and even to connect with a community of other fans.



    Paramount Home Entertainment will issue new releases day and date as well as catalog titles exclusively on HD DVD. Today's announcement does not include films directed by Steven Spielberg as his films are not exclusive to either format.



    How do you like THEM apples? Not exclusive to either format? Spielberg's decided his first film on high-def disc is coming out on Blu-ray Disc only. So what do Paramount and DreamWorks do? They bury that little factoid at the tail end of their press release. Nice. Okay, Spielberg hasn't made any kind of public statements to that effect that he supports only Blu-ray. But why then isn't Universal able to release any of his films on HD-DVD? Why then does this deal with Paramount and DreamWorks NOT include Spielberg titles? Because Spielberg wouldn't allow it is the only thing that makes any sense.



    I'll tell you what... I'm betting Fox and MGM start making Blu-ray Disc exclusive announcements and soon. You just watch. The reaction will be swift...



    BTW Frank777, I'm not saying Microsoft want to dominate the HD optical market, I'm saying they want it to stagnate and continue to confuse consumers, so that their digital downloads will hopefully take off. Gates has been quoted numerous times how he wants this to be the case. That's where the idea comes from my friend.
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