Apple & Sun StarOffice Partnership

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  • Reply 21 of 57
    [quote]Originally posted by Nebagakid:

    <strong>

    or

    iOffice

    </strong><hr></blockquote>



    I like that one....it would be a good name because it even "sounds" compatible with Microsoft Office, if something can sound compatible. Just think: if Apple distributed iOffice or whatever they are going to call it FREE on every new Mac, and it was compatible with Microsoft Office, just imagine how much that would hurt Microsoft! iOffice - The Latest Free iApp!



    Edit: Someone ought to check for an Apple trademark for iOffice or something similar. I don't know exactly how you would go about doing something like that, so I can't do it. Maybe a search for any trademark registered by Apple with the word "office" in it. Just an idea.



    [ 07-27-2002: Message edited by: Scifience ]</p>
  • Reply 22 of 57
    bartobarto Posts: 2,246member
    I told ya. I been saying it for 15 darn years!



    First the Chimera creator was hired, and now Apple is helping Sun port StarOffice to Mac OS X.



    Let's have an "iWork" and "iSurf" combination!



    Apple don't want nutin' more to do wit' dem evil-doers (microsoft).



    Barto



    [ 07-27-2002: Message edited by: Barto ]</p>
  • Reply 23 of 57
    [quote]Originally posted by Barto:

    <strong>I told ya. I been saying it for 15 darn years!



    First the Chimera creator was hired, and now Apple is helping Sun port StarOffice to Mac OS X.



    Apple don't want nutin' more to do wit' dem evil-doers (microsoft).



    Barto</strong><hr></blockquote>



  • Reply 24 of 57
    bartobarto Posts: 2,246member
    [quote]Originally posted by Scifience:

    <strong>



    </strong><hr></blockquote>



    Yeah, most people at 12:20AM sound so stupid they're funny.



    Barto
  • Reply 25 of 57
    chris cuillachris cuilla Posts: 4,825member
    [quote]Originally posted by Frank777:

    <strong>

    Prior to this announcement, Sun was emphatically stating on the OpenOffice site that there would never be a StarOffice on the Mac. They gave the code to OpenOffice and said good riddance, the market share ain't worth the time.</strong><hr></blockquote>



    I think this was a funny decision by Sun considering two things:



    1. Sun's or Linux's market share of desktop machines themselves compared to OS X (at least now).



    2. Sun's intense dislike of Microsoft.



    Funny thing is that StarOffice for Mac OS X could make Sun more $ than selling ever for their own platform. Sun is a SERVER company. Their desktop machines suck. The OS is completely useless for desktop use.
  • Reply 26 of 57
    frawgzfrawgz Posts: 547member
    [quote]Originally posted by Scifience:

    <strong>If (notice I am saying if) an Apple-branded version of StarOffice is ever released, this also opens up the possibility of an Apple-branded web browser, such as a custom version of Mozilla. If Apple has their own Office suite in the works, and their relationship with Microsoft is already rather tedious, what is the point of keeping Microsoft around for the web browser either?</strong><hr></blockquote>



    This is slightly off-topic, but I don't believe Apple has to keep Microsoft around for a web browser at all. The browser market for the Mac is IMO very diverse at the moment and in no way resembles the office suite market on the Mac or PC. If MS decided to drop IE, we'd have at least 2-4 other choices to pick up where they left off, assuming we weren't using them to begin with already.
  • Reply 27 of 57
    rolandgrolandg Posts: 632member
    Hi folks!



    Someone wrote that .doc is the defacto industry standard for word processing. And I have to admit that he is right.



    So what I think Apple and any other productive software company needs to do is to create an offical (for example ISO-)certified open(-source) standard rather than develop their own properietary format.



    That way, all Microsoft contenders although developing for different platforms have a strong cross-platform foundation. And by having it certified the gates to businesses are wide open.



    Make this standard XML-based and you already have mighty tools (for example conversion to PS, PDF, HTML etc.) on hand and you can even open it with MS Office.
  • Reply 28 of 57
    lemon bon bonlemon bon bon Posts: 2,383member
    "I think this was a funny decision by Sun considering two things:



    1. Sun's or Linux's market share of desktop machines themselves compared to OS X (at least now).



    2. Sun's intense dislike of Microsoft."



    Yeah. I could never figure that out either. Apple with a userbase of 25 million and selling 4 million machines a year. Hardly 'not worth it'.



    Why are M$ doing it...if it's 'not worth it...'



    Frankly, between SunOffice and Chimera...it's a real kick in the b*llocks to M$!



    Let's face it. Apple don't really need M$ anymore. Certainly not after Mac land gets a decent Aqua flavoured/.doc reading 'Office' competitor...



    Apple are going after M$. It's about time. It's the only way they can truly 'survive' as we know them.



    Lemon Bon Bon
  • Reply 29 of 57
    I hate to say it but if M$ drops Office for the Mac OS I have to drop Macs. Just a fact of life.
  • Reply 30 of 57
    I personally haven't ever used StarOffice or OpenOffice, but people are definitely right in one thing - it needs to be 100% compatible with .doc files or the heart is in the right place but the checkbook is gonna be in another. Especially if Apple is serious in wanting to break into the enterprise.



    I gave Appleworks a shot about a year ago. I really hate MS Office - it is such huge bloatware and I always found the things which should be easy to do seem to be nested way down in menu--&gt;submenu--&gt;who knows where. But as much as Apple says it is compatible with Office files, it just isn't complete. And that 95% success rate doesn't matter much when a client hands off a document with layers or tables that don't render properly. I am not going to use 2 word processing apps - it just isn't worth it. So in the trash went AppleWorks - even though I thought it was more intelligently laid out in some ways.



    I also don't know a whole lot about Sun, but in my laymans view the things I associate with them are SPARC servers, Java, and what? Thats about it - Solaris in my mind goes with the servers. I think it was that C/NET article that mentioned that StarOffice has seen no real major uptake - I can't imagine they are making any money on it and Sun just don't seem like an application software company to me.



    Why would Apple be mucking about in the source code and putting a pretty, candy coated GUI on top if they are going to continue to produce AppleWorks? That makes no sense to me. And why would Apple spend time slickifying another company's nearly enterprise ready software when they want to not only be the digital hub iApp provider for moms and pops around the world, but are slowly coming around to trying to break into the enterprise? Thats where the real money is. StarOffice is known in the enterprise already - might not be used, but it has been looked at as an alternative at least.



    None of this is based on anything but conjecture, and I haven't done my homework as far as StarOffice at all (hell, Sun could be making a mint on it as we speak, but I really doubt it.) The only reason I can imagine Sun having for continuing to develop this product is as another arrow in their quiver against M$ - their hatred of M$ seems to run pretty deep.



    That in itself might mean they keep their hands on StarOffice, but, at least to me, when companies are more and more returning to their "core competences" this just isn't part of Sun's product matrix.



    I say Apple gets StarOffice running on X, then drops a "surprise" bomb at a special press event announcing they have inked a deal with Sun to buy it lock stock and barrel. Rename it to something more Appley (no iOffice here though - this has got to be seen as the real deal in the suit and tie world), mind melds AppleWorks and SO together, and wham, bam, thank you mam we suddenly got a viable, enterprise ready office productivity suite easier to use than Office, fully interoperable with your accounting department and CEO's silly little .doc files. On top of that it is running on the sexiest new OS out there that has all the Linux guys waking up with wet shorts in the middle of the night.



    All of a sudden you have 1 OS which is capable of being used in every capacity in the office - from accounting to simple finder for stuffy suit CEO to workstations to servers.



    Or, then again, maybe Sun just starts selling StarOffice for X.
  • Reply 31 of 57
    Hmmm, I guess I should actually do some research into things before I start spouting off. StarOffice is free huh?



    And then there is this quote:



    "I don't want to sell StarOffice for OS X," Siress said. "I want Apple to bundle it. I'll give them the code. I'd love it if I could get the team at Apple to do joint development and they distribute it at no cost--that it's their product. Nobody makes a product more beautiful on Apple than Apple."



    How embarrassing <img src="graemlins/embarrassed.gif" border="0" alt="[Embarrassed]" />



    [ 07-27-2002: Message edited by: The Pie Man ]</p>
  • Reply 32 of 57
    a few points to make (note that it is too late at night to check my facts but I think this is on track):



    1. There is a chance that this is balls. There was a post on slashdot from an open office developer slating the article for numerous inaccuracies and asking why they (Openoffice) had not been approached for their angle and/or fact-checking. I can't be bothered reading it again but does the article quote anyone from Apple?



    2. OpenOffice is the open source version of StarOffice like mozilla and netscape. The stuff that Sun didn't own wasn't open-sourced. I think this includes fonts and spell checkers amongst other things.



    3 Sun originally gave StarOffice away for free after they announced OpenOffice but I think they charge a nominal fee on non-Sun platforms now.



    4 OpenOffice is not, and will not, be written in Java. At most, the Aqua interface will be done with Java-Cocoa.
  • Reply 33 of 57
    pyr3pyr3 Posts: 946member
    [quote]Originally posted by stupider...likeafox:

    <strong>a few points to make (note that it is too late at night to check my facts but I think this is on track):



    1. There is a chance that this is balls. There was a post on slashdot from an open office developer slating the article for numerous inaccuracies and asking why they (Openoffice) had not been approached for their angle and/or fact-checking. I can't be bothered reading it again but does the article quote anyone from Apple?



    2. OpenOffice is the open source version of StarOffice like mozilla and netscape. The stuff that Sun didn't own wasn't open-sourced. I think this includes fonts and spell checkers amongst other things.



    3 Sun originally gave StarOffice away for free after they announced OpenOffice but I think they charge a nominal fee on non-Sun platforms now.



    4 OpenOffice is not, and will not, be written in Java. At most, the Aqua interface will be done with Java-Cocoa.</strong><hr></blockquote>



    No one is saying that ALL of OpenOffice is being written in Java. But what is to say that Apple's port of OO/SO can't be written in Java? Since OO is open source, why does Apple have to talk to OO to make their own version as long as it is free? (maybe I'm wrong, don't know the license that OO is under) I think that Apple will just port OO and Sun will give Apple access to the porprietary parts of SO that aren't part of OO. This may all be hype, but I do think that combining AppleWorks and SO/OO is a good idea.



    [ 07-27-2002: Message edited by: pyr3 ]</p>
  • Reply 34 of 57
    bartobarto Posts: 2,246member
    scott_h_phd is such a troll. Troll's don't usually get to me, but this one does.



    If Apple came out with a peice of software equivelant in functionality to MS Office (let's call it iWork), but with a better GUI and Exchange support in iCal, wouldn't that be better than the current situation?



    WhyTF would you have to leave the Mac then?



    In fact, if Apple advertised that they had a better Office than Office, and free of charge (bundled with all Macs), it would be 10x better than now!



    Barto
  • Reply 35 of 57
    lemon bon bonlemon bon bon Posts: 2,383member
    Considering all the great software Apple do much better than M$...



    ...then producing a great 'Office' alternative, compatable with 'Office' really is beneath them.



    I guess by 2003...we'll find out.



    Anybody checked out the Mac OS X version of 'Think Free Office'? Any good? I've downloaded it...but haven't run it on my wife's iBoook just yet...



    Lemon Bon Bon
  • Reply 36 of 57
    koffedrnkrkoffedrnkr Posts: 170member
    for me, i guess old prejudices die hard. i don't like microsoft and never will. here's my projection on what happens next:



    1) an annoyed microsoft suddenly fabricates a bunch of new ficticious reasons why "the costs of developing new versions of office are not worth the investment". despite the fact that the MBU has been profitable, the current version office v.X become the last. microsoft sulks.



    2) in another of its unexpected acquisitions, apple buys omni and user speculation is rampant, although not much is said by either side. the moment fades.



    3) apple collaborates with sun on bringing star office to the mac. it's good, but not great. it's solid, but not flashy. it does not have the apple look, but it does works. it's praised in the media, but few people switch. it is comforting to know it's there however...since microsoft is talking less and less about updating office.



    4) apple introduces a brand new appleworks at Macworld, but now in 2 separate flavors...a free and updated home version and a brand new business version which will be sold for around half of whatever microsoft is charging for office.

    along with expected functionality, it also includes functions gained from the omni acquisition...like graphing, etc. it's also tied into imovie, iphoto, ical and .mac so that digital images can go from digital camera/camcorder to web to presentation seamlessly. it's very integrated, tight, and is the hit of the show.



    5) an annoyed microsoft finds a reason to change the .doc format and build more security into office files in hopes of wrecking compatibility with apple's new office product. as many times before, a hack is quickly found and the only ones truly effected are angry wintel office users when compatibility problems arise with the new .doc format.





    6) microsoft decides to exclude the mac from .NET development and they go on a forced march to make .NET the web security standard of the universe. apple becomes more active in SUN's liberty alliance and builds their standard into OSX. scott mcneely has a spot in a macworld keynote to talk about how OSX is in the forefront of the liberty wave.



    7) as a final shot, microsoft freezes development on IE and continues to push Csharp, activeX and it's own web standards. the media, who have secretly longed to report this story go nuts with, "microsoft stops IE for mac. apple doomed". long-time mac users roll their eyes and take a deep breath.



    8) apple introduces a retooled web browser built on the core of omniweb. it's lovely. it's compliant, and it works fabulously with OSX. libertarians rejoice. the media snickers and endlessly mentions that "it'll never have IE's marketshare".



    9) a few years go by and microsoft's presence has greatly diminished. steve goes back to slagging them off during his keynote. he points to their sloppy design and lack of integration. when OSX matures, he's quick to add a word processor bakeoff to the keynote, "scrolling a 100page .doc" test takes its place next to the photoshop test in the hearts of macusers.



    10) microsoft, aware now that they can't break apple slowly reemerges into the mac space. apps are updated and with the extra competition, actually improve. things are better again.
  • Reply 37 of 57
    lemon bon bonlemon bon bon Posts: 2,383member
    Nice one, Koff'!!!



    Enjoyed reading that!



    Old predjudices do die hard. Especially when M$ rip off your favoured OS!



    Hadn't thought of Apple aquiring Omni. But...I guess it could make sense. That Omni Graffle looks interesting...never used it. Any good?



    Omniweb aint bad by all accounts. I've yet to try it myself... (Heck, JD swears by it!!! )



    But didn't they just hire the 'Chimera' guy?



    Still the 'tight' fit of an Apple 'Office' integrated with iCal, iSync, an Apple Web browser, Rendezvous...iphoto etc...would be amazing.



    Apple seems to be on the path...



    Lemon Bon Bon
  • Reply 38 of 57
    [quote]Originally posted by Lemon Bon Bon:

    <strong>That Omni Graffle looks interesting...never used it. Any good?</strong><hr></blockquote>



    Actually, OmniGraffle is very good. It is a little hard to get used to, but they just came out with a new version that sort of addresses that problem. It's been very useful to me when my teachers ask me to make diagrams and concept maps....



    [quote]Originally posted by Lemon Bon Bon:

    <strong>But didn't they just hire the 'Chimera' guy? </strong><hr></blockquote>



    When you look at it that way, Apple buying Omni for OmniWeb doesn't make much sense. But buying Omni so that they can integrate products such as OmniGraffle into AppleWorks/StarOffice for OS X does seem like a possibility. If that happens, and Apple decides to do something with the OmniWeb product, it is more likely to add the UI to Mozilla/Chimera. More people would use Chimera if the UI was better, and I think the same thing with StarOffice. That's my two cents, anyway.
  • Reply 39 of 57
    buonrottobuonrotto Posts: 6,368member
    [quote]Originally posted by scott_h_phd:

    <strong>I hate to say it but if M$ drops Office for the Mac OS I have to drop Macs. Just a fact of life.</strong><hr></blockquote>



    Haven't you done that already? I thought you moved to Linux on PPC or something after the whole Rage suport fiasco. (Sincere question, not trying to push your buttons.)
  • Reply 40 of 57
    [quote]Originally posted by BuonRotto:

    <strong>



    Haven't you done that already? I thought you moved to Linux on PPC or something after the whole Rage suport fiasco. (Sincere question, not trying to push your buttons.)</strong><hr></blockquote>



    Where I work now I "have to" use WinNT 4. But if I move to another position and get to pick my computer then I could get a powerbook. BUT if there's no Excell for it then ... I just can't do it. I have to have Excell to work with other people. We have some every important spread sheets that I have to have to do my work.



    I hate to say it but an OS X powerbook with X11 would ****ing rock for my job now.
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