You could generalize that to everything they do really, including all their hardware. It doesn't even have to be right for the majority. As long as Apple's designers think it's what people want then it suddenly becomes what people want simply because there is no choice. Some might say that because people put up with it then they approve or grow used to it but usually it's because running OS X has certain benefits you can't get elsewhere.
Actually, I agree with you on that. I was being kind. But, sometimes they do listen. We were just going to get column view originally with X, but they listened and gave us both.
Actually, I agree with you on that. I was being kind. But, sometimes they do listen. We were just going to get column view originally with X, but they listened and gave us both.
You got Column View, Icon View and List View--all three in Openstep.
You got Column View, Icon View and List View--all three in Openstep.
I was actually considering all three to be part of the same Openstep iGUI. What I was referring to is the Finder, as we knew it from the old System software, which Apple wasn't going to provide at first, until a large outcry forced them to.
I wish I could see more screenshots of the new build.
I find transparencies annoying, especially in Office, when you have all those toolboxes that you can see through to the other documents behind them, making everything unreadable. Whats the point of seeing through something if you can't make use of it? It ends up looking like garbage and is a bunch of wasted space.
I was actually considering all three to be part of the same Openstep iGUI. What I was referring to is the Finder, as we knew it from the old System software, which Apple wasn't going to provide at first, until a large outcry forced them to.
/begin rant
I was there within Apple. You overestimate your "outcry" as being influential. There were practical reasons to leave some of the crap in there.
Openstep Shelf was a Finder, but only Better. Of course legacy code played the biggest influence.
The main reasons was TIME.
I don't miss the Blue Box, Red Box, Yellow Box wars of wasted time and all the whining employees who were waiting to take 12 week Sabbaticals on Apple's dime spent on the internal website; and when Steve pulled the plug threatened to quit right there. Some actually did.
Answer: don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.
What's really sad is that it took 10 years of infighting to get the operating system in a direction we wanted it to be in 1997.
Bravo Mac faithful. You slowed down progress to a snail's pace.
Bravo 3rd party App assholes of Adobe, Microsoft [understandably] and then Macromedia for slowing down the inevitable.
Where are we now?
Apple is fortunately at a place where it can ignore Adobe/Macromedia and produce great products making it clear they either move forward or be left behind, and Microsoft slowing Office production long time direct control over major growth is finally dying.
I'm all for constructive criticism of advancing OS X.
I want to puke when people spend countless weeks, outside of any Apple Engineering Meetings and proclaims their outcries are the reason this or that happened.
Steve does a great job at giving such an impression, but let's get real. For products that have required legacy connection pragmatic reason has always trumped "zealotry" in why this or that happened.
Moving forward, OS X 10.5 is the actual first version remotely where the OS wanted to be when it was that irritating Rhapsody branding associated with that 500 day CEO.
Yes these are my observations. Apple is a top knotch place to work. Unfortunately it's stuck in a shithole location to afford called Silicon Valley, but everyone who has lived there knows what an abomination in cost it is to work when you aren't tier 1 pay scale and you're building a career.
I was there within Apple. You overestimate your "outcry" as being influential. There were practical reasons to leave some of the crap in there.
Openstep Shelf was a Finder, but only Better. Of course legacy code played the biggest influence.
The main reasons was TIME.
I don't miss the Blue Box, Red Box, Yellow Box wars of wasted time and all the whining employees who were waiting to take 12 week Sabbaticals on Apple's dime spent on the internal website; and when Steve pulled the plug threatened to quit right there. Some actually did.
Answer: don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.
What's really sad is that it took 10 years of infighting to get the operating system in a direction we wanted it to be in 1997.
Bravo Mac faithful. You slowed down progress to a snail's pace.
Bravo 3rd party App assholes of Adobe, Microsoft [understandably] and then Macromedia for slowing down the inevitable.
Where are we now?
Apple is fortunately at a place where it can ignore Adobe/Macromedia and produce great products making it clear they either move forward or be left behind, and Microsoft slowing Office production long time direct control over major growth is finally dying.
I'm all for constructive criticism of advancing OS X.
I want to puke when people spend countless weeks, outside of any Apple Engineering Meetings and proclaims their outcries are the reason this or that happened.
Steve does a great job at giving such an impression, but let's get real. For products that have required legacy connection pragmatic reason has always trumped "zealotry" in why this or that happened.
Moving forward, OS X 10.5 is the actual first version remotely where the OS wanted to be when it was that irritating Rhapsody branding associated with that 500 day CEO.
Yes these are my observations. Apple is a top knotch place to work. Unfortunately it's stuck in a shithole location to afford called Silicon Valley, but everyone who has lived there knows what an abomination in cost it is to work when you aren't tier 1 pay scale and you're building a career.
/end rant.
I'm sorry to hear all that. Perhaps you're 100% correct.
Looks like Apple's got a new icon artist in charge. I'm not sure I like what I'm seeing.. The new icons I think are less informing and more nostalgic in their designs, especially the miniature versions.. It looks kind of funky now because old and new icons are mixed.. looks very bad.
Example 1:
Look at System Preferences, Folders, Images and Movies. They look totally out of place.
And then look at the standard folder icons in the home folder. At a glance they look very anonymous, low contrast and the images on the folders doesn't come through very well at all. I hope they don't rush it..
Looks like Apple's got a new icon artist in charge. I'm not sure I like what I'm seeing.. The new icons I think are less informing and more nostalgic in their designs, especially the miniature versions.. It looks kind of funky now because old and new icons are mixed.. looks very bad.
Example 1:
Look at System Preferences, Folders, Images and Movies. They look totally out of place.
And then look at the standard folder icons in the home folder. At a glance they look very anonymous, low contrast and the images on the folders doesn't come through very well at all. I hope they don't rush it..
Even the toned-down, low contrast, 'very anonymous' folder icons seem light-years ahead of what we have now.
The Library folder actually has a...*gasp* library on it. The music folder has actually music notes on it instead of the lesser known treble clef. The picture folder has a camera on it instead of...well...I'm not sure what that is...a fuzzy and downright ugly picture frame? The sites folder is the more widely accepted world-wide-web globe symbol instead of the picture of a browser window that's only recognizable at 128x128 sizes.
All of the current Aqua folder icons are unrecognizable at 32x32 sizes. Test it out with someone that's never seen Mac OS X before. Take a screenshot of your Home window at 32x32 icon sizes, remove the names underneath each folder and then ask them what each folder is about. They'll probably get the 'Documents' folder right but the 'Movies' and 'Library' folders don't look like anything unless you stick your face onto the monitor and squint real hard and the 'Pictures' and 'Site' icon are just unrecognizable. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if someone thought the 'Pictures' folder icon was the front of a filing cabinet drawer.
I haven't seen the Leopard icons at 32x32 sizes but I'm almost certain they'll be instantly recognizable by anyone.
Unfortunately it's stuck in a shithole location to afford called Silicon Valley, but everyone who has lived there knows what an abomination in cost it is to work when you aren't tier 1 pay scale and you're building a career.
As New Yorkers we can sympathize. The median income in NY is around $65,000 (national median $47,000) with a housing vacancy rate of around .04%
You could generalize that to everything they do really, including all their hardware. It doesn't even have to be right for the majority. As long as Apple's designers think it's what people want then it suddenly becomes what people want simply because there is no choice. Some might say that because people put up with it then they approve or grow used to it but usually it's because running OS X has certain benefits you can't get elsewhere.
They actually do listen to user feedback all the time! ----> That is how a lot of the features get added.
You got the next best thing and your not wasting his time then write Monsenir Jobs himself. (Starting your email with mentioning something positive will go a long way).
Absolutely. Check out the iCal screenshots... see that line across the day/week? Indicates 'current time' and it marches down the page as the day progresses.
I asked for that. (It received a bug number too, not a duplicate notification, so I honestly get to say "First!" )
As New Yorkers we can sympathize. The median income in NY is around $65,000 (national median $47,000) with a housing vacancy rate of around .04%
That doesn't seem half bad, but that's for the entire state of New York, I presume? King County Washington has a similar median income and of course it houses the majority of IT companies.
You'd think with the backbones and advancements of IT that companies would expand their areas that aren't just high in population density, but also in budding areas that have all the same IT conveniences minus the high operations costs.
Absolutely. Check out the iCal screenshots... see that line across the day/week? Indicates 'current time' and it marches down the page as the day progresses.
I asked for that. (It received a bug number too, not a duplicate notification, so I honestly get to say "First!" )
1. They should make the menulbar hide-able, maybe have it disappear when your curser is not on it and re-appear when you go to use it, this would make the whole desktop alot more clutter free!
OR
2. Simply have a transparency slider, which lets the user deside what works better for them, and for me i would stick with it opaque, the transparency just makes leopard look like more of a space program then it already does!
1. They should make the menulbar hide-able, maybe have it disappear when your curser is not on it and re-appear when you go to use it, this would make the whole desktop alot more clutter free!
OR
2. Simply have a transparency slider, which lets the user deside what works better for them, and for me i would stick with it opaque, the transparency just makes leopard look like more of a space program then it already does!
Some programs give that option to turn it off. The only one that comes to mind offhand is Divva, but I know there are others, so some third party soul should be able to write a routine to do it.
Comments
You could generalize that to everything they do really, including all their hardware. It doesn't even have to be right for the majority. As long as Apple's designers think it's what people want then it suddenly becomes what people want simply because there is no choice. Some might say that because people put up with it then they approve or grow used to it but usually it's because running OS X has certain benefits you can't get elsewhere.
Actually, I agree with you on that. I was being kind. But, sometimes they do listen. We were just going to get column view originally with X, but they listened and gave us both.
Actually, I agree with you on that. I was being kind. But, sometimes they do listen. We were just going to get column view originally with X, but they listened and gave us both.
You got Column View, Icon View and List View--all three in Openstep.
You got Column View, Icon View and List View--all three in Openstep.
I was actually considering all three to be part of the same Openstep iGUI. What I was referring to is the Finder, as we knew it from the old System software, which Apple wasn't going to provide at first, until a large outcry forced them to.
I find transparencies annoying, especially in Office, when you have all those toolboxes that you can see through to the other documents behind them, making everything unreadable. Whats the point of seeing through something if you can't make use of it? It ends up looking like garbage and is a bunch of wasted space.
I was actually considering all three to be part of the same Openstep iGUI. What I was referring to is the Finder, as we knew it from the old System software, which Apple wasn't going to provide at first, until a large outcry forced them to.
/begin rant
I was there within Apple. You overestimate your "outcry" as being influential. There were practical reasons to leave some of the crap in there.
Openstep Shelf was a Finder, but only Better. Of course legacy code played the biggest influence.
The main reasons was TIME.
I don't miss the Blue Box, Red Box, Yellow Box wars of wasted time and all the whining employees who were waiting to take 12 week Sabbaticals on Apple's dime spent on the internal website; and when Steve pulled the plug threatened to quit right there. Some actually did.
Answer: don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.
What's really sad is that it took 10 years of infighting to get the operating system in a direction we wanted it to be in 1997.
Bravo Mac faithful. You slowed down progress to a snail's pace.
Bravo 3rd party App assholes of Adobe, Microsoft [understandably] and then Macromedia for slowing down the inevitable.
Where are we now?
Apple is fortunately at a place where it can ignore Adobe/Macromedia and produce great products making it clear they either move forward or be left behind, and Microsoft slowing Office production long time direct control over major growth is finally dying.
I'm all for constructive criticism of advancing OS X.
I want to puke when people spend countless weeks, outside of any Apple Engineering Meetings and proclaims their outcries are the reason this or that happened.
Steve does a great job at giving such an impression, but let's get real. For products that have required legacy connection pragmatic reason has always trumped "zealotry" in why this or that happened.
Moving forward, OS X 10.5 is the actual first version remotely where the OS wanted to be when it was that irritating Rhapsody branding associated with that 500 day CEO.
Yes these are my observations. Apple is a top knotch place to work. Unfortunately it's stuck in a shithole location to afford called Silicon Valley, but everyone who has lived there knows what an abomination in cost it is to work when you aren't tier 1 pay scale and you're building a career.
/end rant.
/begin rant
I was there within Apple. You overestimate your "outcry" as being influential. There were practical reasons to leave some of the crap in there.
Openstep Shelf was a Finder, but only Better. Of course legacy code played the biggest influence.
The main reasons was TIME.
I don't miss the Blue Box, Red Box, Yellow Box wars of wasted time and all the whining employees who were waiting to take 12 week Sabbaticals on Apple's dime spent on the internal website; and when Steve pulled the plug threatened to quit right there. Some actually did.
Answer: don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.
What's really sad is that it took 10 years of infighting to get the operating system in a direction we wanted it to be in 1997.
Bravo Mac faithful. You slowed down progress to a snail's pace.
Bravo 3rd party App assholes of Adobe, Microsoft [understandably] and then Macromedia for slowing down the inevitable.
Where are we now?
Apple is fortunately at a place where it can ignore Adobe/Macromedia and produce great products making it clear they either move forward or be left behind, and Microsoft slowing Office production long time direct control over major growth is finally dying.
I'm all for constructive criticism of advancing OS X.
I want to puke when people spend countless weeks, outside of any Apple Engineering Meetings and proclaims their outcries are the reason this or that happened.
Steve does a great job at giving such an impression, but let's get real. For products that have required legacy connection pragmatic reason has always trumped "zealotry" in why this or that happened.
Moving forward, OS X 10.5 is the actual first version remotely where the OS wanted to be when it was that irritating Rhapsody branding associated with that 500 day CEO.
Yes these are my observations. Apple is a top knotch place to work. Unfortunately it's stuck in a shithole location to afford called Silicon Valley, but everyone who has lived there knows what an abomination in cost it is to work when you aren't tier 1 pay scale and you're building a career.
/end rant.
I'm sorry to hear all that. Perhaps you're 100% correct.
But, we can only go by what we see.
Example 1:
Look at System Preferences, Folders, Images and Movies. They look totally out of place.
And then look at the standard folder icons in the home folder. At a glance they look very anonymous, low contrast and the images on the folders doesn't come through very well at all. I hope they don't rush it..
Looks like Apple's got a new icon artist in charge. I'm not sure I like what I'm seeing.. The new icons I think are less informing and more nostalgic in their designs, especially the miniature versions.. It looks kind of funky now because old and new icons are mixed.. looks very bad.
Example 1:
Look at System Preferences, Folders, Images and Movies. They look totally out of place.
And then look at the standard folder icons in the home folder. At a glance they look very anonymous, low contrast and the images on the folders doesn't come through very well at all. I hope they don't rush it..
Even the toned-down, low contrast, 'very anonymous' folder icons seem light-years ahead of what we have now.
The Library folder actually has a...*gasp* library on it. The music folder has actually music notes on it instead of the lesser known treble clef. The picture folder has a camera on it instead of...well...I'm not sure what that is...a fuzzy and downright ugly picture frame? The sites folder is the more widely accepted world-wide-web globe symbol instead of the picture of a browser window that's only recognizable at 128x128 sizes.
All of the current Aqua folder icons are unrecognizable at 32x32 sizes. Test it out with someone that's never seen Mac OS X before. Take a screenshot of your Home window at 32x32 icon sizes, remove the names underneath each folder and then ask them what each folder is about. They'll probably get the 'Documents' folder right but the 'Movies' and 'Library' folders don't look like anything unless you stick your face onto the monitor and squint real hard and the 'Pictures' and 'Site' icon are just unrecognizable. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if someone thought the 'Pictures' folder icon was the front of a filing cabinet drawer.
I haven't seen the Leopard icons at 32x32 sizes but I'm almost certain they'll be instantly recognizable by anyone.
Unfortunately it's stuck in a shithole location to afford called Silicon Valley, but everyone who has lived there knows what an abomination in cost it is to work when you aren't tier 1 pay scale and you're building a career.
As New Yorkers we can sympathize. The median income in NY is around $65,000 (national median $47,000) with a housing vacancy rate of around .04%
You could generalize that to everything they do really, including all their hardware. It doesn't even have to be right for the majority. As long as Apple's designers think it's what people want then it suddenly becomes what people want simply because there is no choice. Some might say that because people put up with it then they approve or grow used to it but usually it's because running OS X has certain benefits you can't get elsewhere.
They actually do listen to user feedback all the time! ----> That is how a lot of the features get added.
You got something pressing then write via the Mac OS X feedbackhttp://www.apple.com/macosx/feedback/
You got the next best thing and your not wasting his time then write Monsenir Jobs himself. (Starting your email with mentioning something positive will go a long way).
I asked for that.
As New Yorkers we can sympathize. The median income in NY is around $65,000 (national median $47,000) with a housing vacancy rate of around .04%
That doesn't seem half bad, but that's for the entire state of New York, I presume? King County Washington has a similar median income and of course it houses the majority of IT companies.
You'd think with the backbones and advancements of IT that companies would expand their areas that aren't just high in population density, but also in budding areas that have all the same IT conveniences minus the high operations costs.
It's happening, but at a snail's pace.
Absolutely. Check out the iCal screenshots... see that line across the day/week? Indicates 'current time' and it marches down the page as the day progresses.
I asked for that.
Good 'un! The hat that I am wearing... it is off.
OR
2. Simply have a transparency slider, which lets the user deside what works better for them, and for me i would stick with it opaque, the transparency just makes leopard look like more of a space program then it already does!
1. They should make the menulbar hide-able, maybe have it disappear when your curser is not on it and re-appear when you go to use it, this would make the whole desktop alot more clutter free!
OR
2. Simply have a transparency slider, which lets the user deside what works better for them, and for me i would stick with it opaque, the transparency just makes leopard look like more of a space program then it already does!
Some programs give that option to turn it off. The only one that comes to mind offhand is Divva, but I know there are others, so some third party soul should be able to write a routine to do it.
I installed Leopard earlier this morning and I have a solid menu bar.
No, you have a light coloured desktop picture that creates that illusion.