PNGs

nebagakid · July 28, 2002 7:38PM

.PNG is a file format that is open source and was never widely adopted for web use. Macromedia uses it as their default file format.

:

First of all, no one owns the format because it is open source (unlike GIF's and JPEG's)

Secondly, they support transparency and also drop shadows can appear like shadows, unlike when a GIF makes a drop shadow it does not make transparency under it

Finally, it has great compression.

Now, why did this not really catch on as it should have done? <img src="graemlins/smokin.gif" border="0" alt="[Chilling]" />

eugene · July 28, 2002 8:26PM

Because it's not as extensible as JPEG in major apps like Adobe Photoshop and it also has half-assed support in Internet Explorer for Windows.

aquatic · July 28, 2002 10:36PM

What's half-assed about it?

And how about the support, ie lack thereof, in IE for Mac.

When the fsck is IE 6 for Macintosh coming? That would be a good feature to add. (providing it's full-assed of course)

[ 07-28-2002: Message edited by: Aquatik ]

pyr3 · July 28, 2002 11:44PM

[quote]Originally posted by Aquatik:

What's half-assed about it?

And how about the support, ie lack thereof, in IE for Mac.

When the fsck is IE 6 for Macintosh coming? That would be a good feature to add. (providing it's full-assed of course)

[ 07-28-2002: Message edited by: Aquatik ]<hr></blockquote>

I don't believe that IE supports animated PNG.

wmf · July 28, 2002 11:49PM

PNG doesn't support animation. MNG does, but nobody is using it yet.

I'm guessing PNG hasn't caught on as much as it could because people are lazy.

groverat · July 29, 2002 12:27AM

IE's PNG rendering is pathetic.

Windows Explorer can even show the transparency, them screwing it up in IE is beyond lame.

unremarkable · July 29, 2002 3:23AM

IE for Mac has always had the best PNG rendering.

stupider...likeafox · July 29, 2002 4:21AM

[quote]Originally posted by Eugene:

Because it's not as extensible as JPEG in major apps like Adobe Photoshop<hr></blockquote>

I'm intrigued by this comment. Care to expand?

Also, does anyone think jpeg2000 will meet with the same apathy as png. I think they are both very cool and would like to see Apple make use of both. Does anyone know if you can set .jp2 files as desktop images in Jaguar?

eugene · July 29, 2002 4:31AM

Go to "Save for Web." Check out the options for PNG vs JPEG.

Do the same for "Save As."

pyr3 · July 29, 2002 9:24AM

[quote]Originally posted by unremarkable:

IE for Mac has always had the best PNG rendering.<hr></blockquote>

I was just on the Macs in our computer lab the other day and IE 5.2 for OSX couldn't open a PNG that someone posted here. So I don't know what you are talking about.

[quote]Originally posted by wmf:

PNG doesn't support animation. MNG does, but nobody is using it yet.

I'm guessing PNG hasn't caught on as much as it could because people are lazy.

<hr></blockquote>

I know that, but MNG is animated PNG. Just a different extention.

[ 07-29-2002: Message edited by: pyr3 ]

unremarkable · July 29, 2002 10:02AM

[quote]Originally posted by pyr3:

I was just on the Macs in our computer lab the other day and IE 5.2 for OSX couldn't open a PNG that someone posted here. So I don't know what you are talking about.<hr></blockquote>

See the large logo in the middle of this page? :

<a href="http://www.ritter-bags.com/"; target="_blank">http://www.ritter-bags.com/</a>;

--it's a png, with levels of transparency. IE5 for Mac has been way ahead of the field with this all along. See:

<a href="http://www.libpng.org/pub/png/pngs-img-ie5mac.html"; target="_blank">http://www.libpng.org/pub/png/pngs-img-ie5mac.html</a>;

also. Now do you know what I'm talking about?

[ 07-29-2002: Message edited by: unremarkable ]

aquatic · July 29, 2002 10:05AM

Well, unremarkable, I'm confused. Yes, that logo loads, and is labeled a PNG in the site source. However I too was trying to look at a PNG here at AI somewhere a while ago and it wouldn't load. That was my first conscious attempt to look at a PNG. I'll try to find where it was later.

unremarkable · July 29, 2002 10:17AM

This might be your answer:

> "Mac IE5's rendering is the best since it not only does full

> alpha-transparency but also gamma and color correction."

> <http://www.libpng.org/pub/png/pngs-img.html>

>

> The problem only arises when the user attempts to view a PNG image on

> its own, meaning not embedded in HTML. For some reason unknown to the

> universe, every version of MacIE5 I've ever used has the file helpers

> settings for image/png and image/x-png set such that said dialog appears

> rather than the image just being displayed.

>

> Under MacIE 5.0.x for OS9, you could at least manually fix the file

> helper settings to address this -- as described by members of this list.

> This solved the problem on an individual basis, but still meant the vast

> majority of MacIE users would not be able to view individual PNGs unless

> they were in-line. Under 5.1.2, it's not even possible to fix this

> manually (at least on my machine). You can make the changes, but they

> don't stick.

[ 07-29-2002: Message edited by: unremarkable ]

johngwest · July 29, 2002 11:30AM

I can give a site where I couldn't get a .png to load... try openoffice.org's mac screen shots. They are labled .png but I have to download them and open them in preview to view. Don't know what I've honked up in IE to prevent them from just loading.

unremarkable · July 29, 2002 12:13PM

The rather huge png on this page loads fine for me in IE 5.1.2, OS X.

<a href="http://whiteboard.openoffice.org/screenshots/images/Writer100.png.html"; target="_blank">http://whiteboard.openoffice.org/screenshots/images/Writer100.png.html</a>;

artman @_@ · July 29, 2002 12:32PM

[quote]Originally posted by unremarkable:

See the large logo in the middle of this page?:

<a href="http://www.ritter-bags.com/"; target="_blank">http://www.ritter-bags.com/</a><hr></blockquote>;

I right-clicked on that logo in IE 6.0 on Windows and it wanted to save it as "transparent.gif"... <img src="confused.gif" border="0">

[ 07-29-2002: Message edited by: Artman @_@ ]

unremarkable · July 29, 2002 1:16PM

That would be because I'm using this cunning hack to get around IE/Windows' deficiency:

<a href="http://www.youngpup.net/?request=/snippets/sleight.xml"; target="_blank">http://www.youngpup.net/?request=/snippets/sleight.xml</a>;

[ 07-29-2002: Message edited by: unremarkable ]

pyr3 · July 29, 2002 2:02PM

Stupid IE made me double post

[ 07-29-2002: Message edited by: pyr3 ]

pyr3 · July 29, 2002 2:03PM

[quote]Originally posted by unremarkable:

That would be because I'm using this cunning hack to get around IE/Windows' deficiency:

<a href="http://www.youngpup.net/?request=/snippets/sleight.xml"; target="_blank">http://www.youngpup.net/?request=/snippets/sleight.xml</a>;

[ 07-29-2002: Message edited by: unremarkable ]<hr></blockquote>

from the link: "Mozilla 5"

This is news to me! Mozilla jumped from 1.0 to 5.0 in a matter of months?! Take THAT IE!

unremarkable · July 29, 2002 2:12PM

Mozilla 1.1a is actually:

Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X; en-US; rv:1.1a) Gecko/20020610

So the page is correct. Do you see?

[ 07-29-2002: Message edited by: unremarkable ]

clonenode · July 29, 2002 2:33PM

I'm pretty sure PNG (portable Network Graphic) is an invention of Adobe's, though they may have open sourced it. You can create these with Illustrator.

PNGs

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