I love Apple products too, and I used to think those people who dissected iPods to make a bill of materials and figure out margins and cost were nuts. I'll be one of those people from now on. :mad
Boo hoo hoo!
Baby!
Perhaps you missed the PUBLIC INFORMATION that Apple makes about 50% margins on its hardware! (angry face angry face angry face angry face angry face angry face angry face angry face angry face)
Guess what that means? That means that if you paid $600 for it (dummy) it cost Apple less than $300 to make it. DUH! And guess what? If Apple makes another $250 over the lifetime of the product, that frees up ANOTHER $250 that they can use to RIP YOU OFF by FORCING YOU to buy something you DIDN'T WANT anyway.
Two months after the opening release, the product is doing well AND the price drops by 66%?! Two months, folks. Repeat that, you blind defenders of the status quo. TWO MONTHS!
This is not "normal business practice" for a product doing well.
It's not doing that 'well'. That's the point that people are missing.
By the end of this month Apple expect to sell their 1 millionth iPod. That's about 300,000 per month. That's only 5.4 million by the 2008. A far cry from the 10 million they predicted at launch.
The stock was off over $7 today. Do you think that was coincidence? Analysts on Wall Street can do math too.
Oh, my f*cking god! What is it with all you people who can't wait to jump on here and attack someone else instead of discussing the issue itself? You should certainly be thankful for your internet anonymity 'cause if I were next to you right now, I'd pop you in the mouth.
I did NOT think that $599 was a "bad deal" until today when Apple announced to the world that, yes, it was a bad deal. Lowering the price so significantly indicates that it was dramatically over-priced at launch. Compared to the top of the line iPods and Crackberries, the features, including the incredibly slick, touch-screen interface seemed compelling enough to justify the price. I still struggled with it and had I not had extra money in my checking account from a bonus I received at work, I doubt I could have justified the cost.
There are so many problems with the arguments that this is "normal business practice," or "a price-correction," or "all products eventually decrease in price." Yes of course all of these are true to an extent, but not in such a short amount of time and it is certainly not historically typical of Apple. The time between their product refreshes has been getting longer and longer over the last 2 to 3 years, and historically, price drops on devices in the iPod family occur rarely. Instead, features, usually storage space, are added to justify maintaining the existing price point. There was just no anticipating a move this drastic. I'm mostly over it now, but I'm not over all the rude people in this community that contribute nothing constructive, yet expend excessive energy trying to beat down the thoughts and opinions of other forum posters.
The most sane set of comments I have read in hundreds of posts on what today meant to Apple-people.
Thank you, sir, for your perspective.
Your post should end this rapidly degenerating discussion on a high note.... (but of course, it won't!).
Purchasers of the iPhone (and not all of us purchased it two months ago, either) have every right to complain. We have every right to state that we will alter our buying practices when it comes to Apple products. Just as Apple has every right to alter pricing of their product in the marketplace whenever they wish, we have every right to judge them on those decisions and respond accordingly.
There will be a cost of lost business or "buying delay" to Apple in the future because of this decision. However, I'm sure they analyzed the impact and determined that it was worth it. Their choice, and, since it infuriates me, I will speak with my wallet going forward.
The incessant defense of Apple and criticism of those that wish to express their disagreement sounds as much like whining to me as any posts expressing anger regarding Apple's decision. I would like to see the people making these posts calling others morons, idiots, fools, etc. conduct these conversations in person. I'm sure the dialogue would differ drastically.
Not for TWO months. Maybe 10 months, 1 year, 2 years, hell something substantial! If you cound't tell, I'm REALLY pissed about this. can honestly say I've never bought ANYTHING that was devalued this much this fast in 25 years.
New cars drop at least 10% the moment you drive them off the lot... two months later even more.
can't wait till the 3g 160gig iPhone comes out in December for $399 so all the people buying iPhones in the next few weeks feel as screwed as I do. Bad karma is gonna eat Steve's pancreas.
... I defy anyone to claim they knew apple would drop the price this fast (and by that much).. 200 is a lot dude. I don't care how you slice and dice it.. that a big drop. No way in hell can drop in component price account for that. Component cost reducing may account for it partly but the entire 200?. No way!
Rumor sites were full of stories about a cheaper iPhone. iPhone Nano or something like that. Why is it a big surprise the rumors came true?
What a bunch of damned babies. If you couldn't afford the $600 for the iPhone or it wasn't worth that much to you, then you shouldn't have bought it.
Ding! Ding! Ding! We have a winner!
Quote:
Originally Posted by wnurse
Yeah, strange how apple manufacturing cost suddenly was reduced by 200 no?.
No. Have you not ever heard of R&D?
Quote:
Originally Posted by macbear01
I don't believe I asked for your opinion of me
You posted your feelings on a publicly accessible forum. If you don't want what comes with that (people commenting on it), don't post! Simple really.
Quote:
Originally Posted by macbear01
Simply feeling like I've been taken by a company that hyped a product to produce imaginary demand for which very little supply constraints ever existed, only to cut the price by 33% just 2 months after release, and expressing my feelings about it, does not make me a whiner.
Yes it does. You are whining about the price reduction. And that the iPhone doesn't even have all the features you want!
Quote:
Originally Posted by macbear01
[loads of whining about "missing" iPhone features]
Really, your post does beg the question "why the fuck did you buy an iPhone?".
Quote:
Originally Posted by wnurse
When you buy high end products, you expect it to remain high end a bit longer.
You may well expect it. But you have no right to do so.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wnurse
No way in hell can drop in component price account for that. Component cost reducing may account for it partly but the entire 200?. No way!
Indeed. R&D and a little thing called "supply and demand" had a lot to do with it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wnurse
Don't question apple pricing Mel... keep being the loyal sheep you are.
Obviously you haven't read all that many posts from Mel regarding Apple's desktop computer line-up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by paulgreen
Let's look at the iPhone. It was $600, with a mandatory 2 year contract at $60/month = $2040 for two years. Now it is $400, with the same contract making it $1840 for two years, i.e. a modest 9.8% drop in price.
Any thoughts?
Bloody good point.
Quote:
Originally Posted by macbear01
I did NOT think that $599 was a "bad deal" until today when Apple announced to the world that, yes, it was a bad deal.
Next time, try engaging your own brain instead of relying on Apple to tell you what to think.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JDW
Two months after the opening release, the product is doing well AND the price drops by 66%?! Two months, folks. Repeat that, you blind defenders of the status quo. TWO MONTHS!
And how is "TWO MONTHS" in any way relevant? So what? Did Apple drag these people into the stores, and hold them at gunpoint/kidnap and hold ransom their babies/threaten to smother their parents in jam to force them to pay $599 for iPhones? No. They didn't. People were free to make up their own minds; if they couldn't afford $599 or didn't think the iPhone was worth that, they shouldn't have paid it. Apple's announcement today has not altered in any way the iPhones that people have bought over the last two months.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JDW
And so, people complaining in this thread and those wanting a $200 rebate are totally free, in my opinion, to complain to their heart's content.
Indeed they are free to do that. It's just that they don't have a genuine complaint and no logical basis for people to feel sorry for them.
Not quite. The Toyota you buy for $20,000 is driven off the lot and worth $14,000 afterwards, we realize that. BUT, 2 months down the road if your neighbor wants that same car its still $20,000 at the dealership, not $14,000.
Your analogy does not apply.
Actually it does. Car dealerships have all sorts of incentives monthly that change prices radically. And while you can use a percentage claim that a Toyota won't drop $6K, we're talking about $200 for something a helluvalot cooler than a Toyota.
Very polite young man told me that his usual day consists of explaining how to connect to ATT or how to get email, etc, but that most of his calls today are from people like me who called to complain about apple's price "gotcha".
I must admit that my heart stopped a beat or two upon hearing of Apple's incredibly generous $200 reduction on the incredible iPhone. As a certified Apple product early adopter I am aware that when a make a first generation purchase...the product is going to change with enhanced functionality and usually a price adjustment. But I feel at this drastic of a honeymoon period drop, Apple should spread a little goodwill to those of us who took the first leap of faith.
Certainly I wouldn't expect a rebate...but some value add gesture to reward those who made Apple's numbers look so good and earned THEM the bragging rights is needed. I would propose a $75 iTunes gift credit that could be used to buy iPhone content. This won't cost Apple $75--I am not sure what their margins are on iTunes but I believe them to be sufficient that such a payout would not break the bank and will bring more than $75 in goodwill to one of their most important segments--the early adopters.
I must admit that my heart stopped a beat or two upon hearing of Apple's incredibly generous $200 reduction on the incredible iPhone. As a certified Apple product early adopter I am aware that when a make a first generation purchase...the product is going to change with enhanced functionality and usually a price adjustment. But I feel at this drastic of a honeymoon period drop, Apple should spread a little goodwill to those of us who took the first leap of faith.
Certainly I wouldn't expect a rebate...but some value add gesture to reward those who made Apple's numbers look so good and earned THEM the bragging rights is needed. I would propose a $75 iTunes gift credit that could be used to buy iPhone content. This won't cost Apple $75--I am not sure what their margins are on iTunes but I believe them to be sufficient that such a payout would not break the bank and will bring more than $75 in goodwill to one of their most important segments--the early adopters.
I would be happy with a free bluetooth headset, but I'd take a 75 - 100 iTunes card.
Honestly, people screamed from the roof tops- "I WANT AN IPHONE NO MATTER WHAT!" and now the complaints when there is a drop in price. ALL new products are the most expensive, hell you can get a Razor now for $10 and a cereal box top
Well, I am not angry and I am not whinning but I am disapointed in a company I have always held in highest esteem. Apple seems to have abused their most loyal and devoted customers. It is my hope that they do something to make this right. Say what you want about this being captalism, free enterprise, business as normal... it is not what many of us have come to expect from Apple.
So, Steve, the real one not the Fake One, maybe those of us who gladly gave you a 100% profit margin on the iPhone as an early adopter are due some sort of appreciation: a free copy of Leopard when it ships or a refund on an iPhone Applecare policy? I think a goodwill guesture like this might send a strong signal to those of us who purchase new Apple products quickly that our business is appreciated. Otherwise, we are foolish not to wait when a new product is released. If we, the Apple Faithful, wait where will your strong initial sales come from?
Of course all this may be for nothing...Apple may do something to say as a loyal customer and an early adopter who supports the company... we are due some sort of recognition.
This explains the sudden drop Apple expected in their gross margins.
I wonder if Apple has any rebate subsidy in place for the first iPhone buyers?
I read in a previous post on this thread, (can't find it now) - that mentioned someone contacted their local Apple store regarding this very question. The Apple Store rep said that in a couple of days, Apple was going to announce something like a rebate for previous purchasers of iPhones. He said that he was not allowed to give any other information as far as the amounts or what period the rebate will cover.
Maybe it will be a floating amount, which changes depending on when you purchased your iPhone. Given Apple's history when it comes to major OS upgrades, I would guess that us first day buyers will receive the least - or possibly nothing, (I'm hoping it's not the later!), and the closer to today that you bought your phone, you'll most likely get nearly or all of the difference.
Comments
I love Apple products too, and I used to think those people who dissected iPods to make a bill of materials and figure out margins and cost were nuts. I'll be one of those people from now on.
Boo hoo hoo!
Baby!
Perhaps you missed the PUBLIC INFORMATION that Apple makes about 50% margins on its hardware! (angry face angry face angry face angry face angry face angry face angry face angry face angry face)
Guess what that means? That means that if you paid $600 for it (dummy) it cost Apple less than $300 to make it. DUH! And guess what? If Apple makes another $250 over the lifetime of the product, that frees up ANOTHER $250 that they can use to RIP YOU OFF by FORCING YOU to buy something you DIDN'T WANT anyway.
Idiots!
Two months after the opening release, the product is doing well AND the price drops by 66%?! Two months, folks. Repeat that, you blind defenders of the status quo. TWO MONTHS!
This is not "normal business practice" for a product doing well.
It's not doing that 'well'. That's the point that people are missing.
By the end of this month Apple expect to sell their 1 millionth iPod. That's about 300,000 per month. That's only 5.4 million by the 2008. A far cry from the 10 million they predicted at launch.
The stock was off over $7 today. Do you think that was coincidence? Analysts on Wall Street can do math too.
Oh, my f*cking god! What is it with all you people who can't wait to jump on here and attack someone else instead of discussing the issue itself? You should certainly be thankful for your internet anonymity 'cause if I were next to you right now, I'd pop you in the mouth.
I did NOT think that $599 was a "bad deal" until today when Apple announced to the world that, yes, it was a bad deal. Lowering the price so significantly indicates that it was dramatically over-priced at launch. Compared to the top of the line iPods and Crackberries, the features, including the incredibly slick, touch-screen interface seemed compelling enough to justify the price. I still struggled with it and had I not had extra money in my checking account from a bonus I received at work, I doubt I could have justified the cost.
There are so many problems with the arguments that this is "normal business practice," or "a price-correction," or "all products eventually decrease in price." Yes of course all of these are true to an extent, but not in such a short amount of time and it is certainly not historically typical of Apple. The time between their product refreshes has been getting longer and longer over the last 2 to 3 years, and historically, price drops on devices in the iPod family occur rarely. Instead, features, usually storage space, are added to justify maintaining the existing price point. There was just no anticipating a move this drastic. I'm mostly over it now, but I'm not over all the rude people in this community that contribute nothing constructive, yet expend excessive energy trying to beat down the thoughts and opinions of other forum posters.
The most sane set of comments I have read in hundreds of posts on what today meant to Apple-people.
Thank you, sir, for your perspective.
Your post should end this rapidly degenerating discussion on a high note.... (but of course, it won't!).
thanks guys!
i had a blast reading through it!
I don't believe I asked for your opinion of me, but since we're sharing personal opinions of each other... bitch bitch moan whine bitch wah bitch bleat, bitch moan wah bitch cry whine bitch bleat, bitch moan wah bitch cry whine bitch wah bitch bleat, bitch moan bleat, bitch moan wah bitch cry whine bitch wah bitch bleat, bitch moan wah bitch cry whine wah bitch cry whine wah bitch bitch moan whine bitch wah bitch bleat, bitch moan wah bitch cry whine bitch wah bitch bitch moan whine bitch wah bitch bleat, bitch moan wah bitch cry whine bitch wah bitch bleat, bitch moan wah bitch cry whine bitch wah bitch bleat, bitch moan wah bitch cry whineMan, it's no wondand, historically, Apple lowers prices with new generations of a product. This was just a complete shock.
It's no wonder America is going down the tubes. And I'm an American!
There will be a cost of lost business or "buying delay" to Apple in the future because of this decision. However, I'm sure they analyzed the impact and determined that it was worth it. Their choice, and, since it infuriates me, I will speak with my wallet going forward.
The incessant defense of Apple and criticism of those that wish to express their disagreement sounds as much like whining to me as any posts expressing anger regarding Apple's decision. I would like to see the people making these posts calling others morons, idiots, fools, etc. conduct these conversations in person. I'm sure the dialogue would differ drastically.
Of course, everyone is entitled to their opinion.
Long live capitalism!
Not for TWO months. Maybe 10 months, 1 year, 2 years, hell something substantial! If you cound't tell, I'm REALLY pissed about this.
New cars drop at least 10% the moment you drive them off the lot... two months later even more.
... I defy anyone to claim they knew apple would drop the price this fast (and by that much).. 200 is a lot dude. I don't care how you slice and dice it.. that a big drop. No way in hell can drop in component price account for that. Component cost reducing may account for it partly but the entire 200?. No way!
Rumor sites were full of stories about a cheaper iPhone. iPhone Nano or something like that. Why is it a big surprise the rumors came true?
What a bunch of damned babies. If you couldn't afford the $600 for the iPhone or it wasn't worth that much to you, then you shouldn't have bought it.
Ding! Ding! Ding! We have a winner!
Yeah, strange how apple manufacturing cost suddenly was reduced by 200 no?.
No. Have you not ever heard of R&D?
I don't believe I asked for your opinion of me
You posted your feelings on a publicly accessible forum. If you don't want what comes with that (people commenting on it), don't post! Simple really.
Simply feeling like I've been taken by a company that hyped a product to produce imaginary demand for which very little supply constraints ever existed, only to cut the price by 33% just 2 months after release, and expressing my feelings about it, does not make me a whiner.
Yes it does. You are whining about the price reduction. And that the iPhone doesn't even have all the features you want!
[loads of whining about "missing" iPhone features]
Really, your post does beg the question "why the fuck did you buy an iPhone?".
When you buy high end products, you expect it to remain high end a bit longer.
You may well expect it. But you have no right to do so.
No way in hell can drop in component price account for that. Component cost reducing may account for it partly but the entire 200?. No way!
Indeed. R&D and a little thing called "supply and demand" had a lot to do with it.
Don't question apple pricing Mel... keep being the loyal sheep you are.
Let's look at the iPhone. It was $600, with a mandatory 2 year contract at $60/month = $2040 for two years. Now it is $400, with the same contract making it $1840 for two years, i.e. a modest 9.8% drop in price.
Any thoughts?
Bloody good point.
I did NOT think that $599 was a "bad deal" until today when Apple announced to the world that, yes, it was a bad deal.
Next time, try engaging your own brain instead of relying on Apple to tell you what to think.
Two months after the opening release, the product is doing well AND the price drops by 66%?! Two months, folks. Repeat that, you blind defenders of the status quo. TWO MONTHS!
And how is "TWO MONTHS" in any way relevant? So what? Did Apple drag these people into the stores, and hold them at gunpoint/kidnap and hold ransom their babies/threaten to smother their parents in jam to force them to pay $599 for iPhones? No. They didn't. People were free to make up their own minds; if they couldn't afford $599 or didn't think the iPhone was worth that, they shouldn't have paid it. Apple's announcement today has not altered in any way the iPhones that people have bought over the last two months.
And so, people complaining in this thread and those wanting a $200 rebate are totally free, in my opinion, to complain to their heart's content.
Indeed they are free to do that. It's just that they don't have a genuine complaint and no logical basis for people to feel sorry for them.
[CENTER]
Not quite. The Toyota you buy for $20,000 is driven off the lot and worth $14,000 afterwards, we realize that. BUT, 2 months down the road if your neighbor wants that same car its still $20,000 at the dealership, not $14,000.
Your analogy does not apply.
Actually it does. Car dealerships have all sorts of incentives monthly that change prices radically. And while you can use a percentage claim that a Toyota won't drop $6K, we're talking about $200 for something a helluvalot cooler than a Toyota.
Very polite young man told me that his usual day consists of explaining how to connect to ATT or how to get email, etc, but that most of his calls today are from people like me who called to complain about apple's price "gotcha".
He said they are directing everyone to: www.apple.com/feedback/iphone.html
For all of you venting on this thread, please also vent directly to the company.
Even Wall Street vented with a 5% drop in stock price.
Certainly I wouldn't expect a rebate...but some value add gesture to reward those who made Apple's numbers look so good and earned THEM the bragging rights is needed. I would propose a $75 iTunes gift credit that could be used to buy iPhone content. This won't cost Apple $75--I am not sure what their margins are on iTunes but I believe them to be sufficient that such a payout would not break the bank and will bring more than $75 in goodwill to one of their most important segments--the early adopters.
Even Wall Street vented with a 5% drop in stock price.
Will Apple give me 100 free ringtones now that the stock is worth 5% less in one day (let alone two months)?
I must admit that my heart stopped a beat or two upon hearing of Apple's incredibly generous $200 reduction on the incredible iPhone. As a certified Apple product early adopter I am aware that when a make a first generation purchase...the product is going to change with enhanced functionality and usually a price adjustment. But I feel at this drastic of a honeymoon period drop, Apple should spread a little goodwill to those of us who took the first leap of faith.
Certainly I wouldn't expect a rebate...but some value add gesture to reward those who made Apple's numbers look so good and earned THEM the bragging rights is needed. I would propose a $75 iTunes gift credit that could be used to buy iPhone content. This won't cost Apple $75--I am not sure what their margins are on iTunes but I believe them to be sufficient that such a payout would not break the bank and will bring more than $75 in goodwill to one of their most important segments--the early adopters.
I would be happy with a free bluetooth headset, but I'd take a 75 - 100 iTunes card.
$200
Honestly, people screamed from the roof tops- "I WANT AN IPHONE NO MATTER WHAT!" and now the complaints when there is a drop in price. ALL new products are the most expensive, hell you can get a Razor now for $10 and a cereal box top
So, Steve, the real one not the Fake One, maybe those of us who gladly gave you a 100% profit margin on the iPhone as an early adopter are due some sort of appreciation: a free copy of Leopard when it ships or a refund on an iPhone Applecare policy? I think a goodwill guesture like this might send a strong signal to those of us who purchase new Apple products quickly that our business is appreciated. Otherwise, we are foolish not to wait when a new product is released. If we, the Apple Faithful, wait where will your strong initial sales come from?
Of course all this may be for nothing...Apple may do something to say as a loyal customer and an early adopter who supports the company... we are due some sort of recognition.
This explains the sudden drop Apple expected in their gross margins.
I wonder if Apple has any rebate subsidy in place for the first iPhone buyers?
I read in a previous post on this thread, (can't find it now) - that mentioned someone contacted their local Apple store regarding this very question. The Apple Store rep said that in a couple of days, Apple was going to announce something like a rebate for previous purchasers of iPhones. He said that he was not allowed to give any other information as far as the amounts or what period the rebate will cover.
Maybe it will be a floating amount, which changes depending on when you purchased your iPhone. Given Apple's history when it comes to major OS upgrades, I would guess that us first day buyers will receive the least - or possibly nothing, (I'm hoping it's not the later!), and the closer to today that you bought your phone, you'll most likely get nearly or all of the difference.