Apple's MPEG-2 DVD Encoder kicks ass!

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  • Reply 21 of 34
    leonisleonis Posts: 3,427member
    [quote]Originally posted by hmurchison:

    <strong>



    Yes ...does anyone know what Spruce Technologies offered that Astarte didn't? </strong><hr></blockquote>



    Hardware solution? Not sure
  • Reply 22 of 34
    709709 Posts: 2,016member
    [quote]Originally posted by hmurchison:

    <strong>



    Yes ...does anyone know what Spruce Technologies offered that Astarte didn't?</strong><hr></blockquote>



    IICR, I think what Spruce had going for it was the 'ease of use' in their DVD menu creation. Motion menus were (at the point Apple purchased them) considered an 'added feature'. So, take Spruce's menu creation features (even in still menus, Spruce was, I think, the company that pioneered the use of PS layers as buttons instead of 1-bit overlays) and the awesome (at the time) MPEG-2 compression accelerated for Velocity Engine that Astarte had, mix accordingly...and wadda ya get? DVDSP of course.



    -G
  • Reply 23 of 34
    kickahakickaha Posts: 8,760member
    Okay, this looks like the right thread to toss this in...



    709, perhaps you could, as a purist, recommend a good solution for crappy input? :/



    I have a *massive* collection of television episodes on VHS, most of which are at least second gen, and a good number are third, copied at SLP.



    Ie, crap.



    What I'd like to do is digitize them and plop them on VCD/DVD. I'm concerned that even at low resolutions the result is going to be a mess. (I know, I know, it's rather a mess to begin with, but I didn't have any control over that.)



    Any suggestions for codecs, compression ratings, noise cleanup, etc?
  • Reply 24 of 34
    709709 Posts: 2,016member
    [quote]Originally posted by Kickaha:

    <strong>

    I have a *massive* collection of television episodes on VHS, most of which are at least second gen, and a good number are third, copied at SLP.



    What I'd like to do is digitize them and plop them on VCD/DVD.



    Any suggestions for codecs, compression ratings, noise cleanup, etc?</strong><hr></blockquote>





    Wow. Before I start, I'm qoing to have to quote The Truth ('if the original video source is crap you still only can make crap' (from Leonis)).



    Now that The Truth is out of the way, I can only help you with a few pointers.



    1) Compression+compression+compression=crap. The 'purist' in me would say to suck everything in via a 10-bit Kona and store it on a hard drive for playback. Of course, that's not practical. The 'realist' in me would say to dump them to DV or suck them in via a VHS-FireWire converter. Either way, you're going to gain 1 more compression level (on your way to #2). DV is not as lossless as Sony and Apple would have you believe, but for a consumer format it doesn't suck.



    2) Now that everything is 'digital' I guess it depends on where you want to go with your stuff. Personally, I'd go straight to DVD (compression level #2) and live with the compression artifacts you might pick up. Quite honestly, VCD scares the hell out of me with it's weird compression scheme.

    Or, take a shot at MPEG-4. Although, in my experience with Apple's (way beyond the codecs...way beyond) new compression, it needs alot of work to make it suitable for what you're asking. As it stand now, I'd go with Sorenson 3 if you wanted to put these on CD-R.



    3) Cost. DVD-Rs are in no way 'cheap'. If you've got a massive collection, the cost of DVD-Rs may just push you to something else. Although, I have to say I've had a very low failure rate with backing up to and sending out DVDs. My backup archive is 200+ DVDs and growing fast, and I haven't had one fail yet (knock on wood).





    Well, sorry I couldn't give you any real specific answers, but I hope this helped.



    -G
  • Reply 25 of 34
    [quote]Originally posted by 709:

    <strong>



    1) Compression+compression+compression=crap. </strong><hr></blockquote>



    I've been converting Hi8s to DV by using the analog to digital feature of a sony TRV25. In some cases the results look bad and maybe a little worse when converted to mpeg2. I guess I might be suffering from the double compression issue.



    About the DV format being less lossless than portrayed- I thought I was being too picky, but with a lot of DV footage it seems a bit jerky when there's a lot of movement in the scene.



    But since I assume these "kona" cards and their like are top dollar items I suppose I'll have to live with it. I was hoping to make DVDs of all my treasured family footage, keep a couple copies at other locations, and throw away all those clunky tapes, but looks like I'll be keeping them for some time until I can convert them with zero loss. Of course, then I'll be competing against degredation by tape shelf life. At least by putting them on DVD I'll have them on a convenient format.



    I guess I'm a purist, like you, in that I don't tolerate any loss in quality. But I'm also a digiphile. <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" /> Damn annoying when the technology isn't quite there.



    [ 08-07-2002: Message edited by: Nordstrodamus ]</p>
  • Reply 26 of 34
    709709 Posts: 2,016member
    [quote]Originally posted by Nordstrodamus:

    <strong>



    I've been converting Hi8s to DV ...

    [ 08-07-2002: Message edited by: Nordstrodamus ]</strong><hr></blockquote>





    Nord -



    Actually, Hi8 was a great idea from Sony that ended up being trashed by more 'acceptable' formats. Once Apple put their stamp of approval on DV, the rest of the community followed. Although, IMHO Panasonic's DVCPRO is king as far as consumer formats go.



    I'm in total agreement that the tech isn't "there' yet, but at least you've got your stuff saved on something that will (eventually) allow you to have a better image on DVD than the rest.



    For those that might be confused, here's why. Most assume that a 'digital' signal is superior. That's simply not true. An analog signal, filmed properly, as component video (YUV) will allow you a much broader spectrum of color and resolution. The digital (consumer) 3CCD cameras on the market can not compete. Next year, when these cameras start to get Fovean (sp?) tech incorporated, it will be a whole new world. Until then, we're simply SOL.



    - G
  • Reply 27 of 34
    709709 Posts: 2,016member
    Damn. As I read through the whole thread again, I got that 'pit in the stomach because you just hi-jacked a thread' feeling. Sorry to Leonis if this is so, but as you can probably tell I'm pretty passionate about all of this.



    - G
  • Reply 28 of 34
    badtzbadtz Posts: 949member
    Are the fovean chips suppose to be integrated into Camcorders also? I thought it was specifically for digital cameras?
  • Reply 29 of 34
    leonisleonis Posts: 3,427member
    [quote]Originally posted by 709:

    <strong>Damn. As I read through the whole thread again, I got that 'pit in the stomach because you just hi-jacked a thread' feeling. Sorry to Leonis if this is so, but as you can probably tell I'm pretty passionate about all of this.



    - G</strong><hr></blockquote>



    That is fine. At least you are "enjoying" it
  • Reply 30 of 34
    Does anyone knnow how to make Jacket Pictures files for DVDs. I see them on some disc, but the file format is a MPEG-2 audio file, but a picture. I was told there is a PC program from TMPG or something, but haven't found anything for the mac. There is a folder on some disc call "Jacket Picture", it allows your DVD to show a picture of your disc cover art instead of your DVD's standby picture when you stop playing a disc.



    Thanks.



    p.s... there's an update to DVD Studio Pro on Apple's site 1.5.1
  • Reply 31 of 34
    [quote]Originally posted by badtz:

    <strong>Are the fovean chips suppose to be integrated into Camcorders also? I thought it was specifically for digital cameras?</strong><hr></blockquote>



    Check out their website. They go into some detail about how it can be used to do both High-res stills and digital video. They also have some awesome pics. Like 709, I'm really pumped about this CCD. Add that and a hard drive or solid state media and I'll be content for a while. I had to buy a DV cam this last month because my wife and i had a new baby and my Hi8 decided to die out this year. Otherwise I'd be waiting.
  • Reply 32 of 34
    hmurchisonhmurchison Posts: 12,273member
    [quote]Originally posted by Nordstrodamus:

    <strong>



    Check out their website. They go into some detail about how it can be used to do both High-res stills and digital video. They also have some awesome pics. Like 709, I'm really pumped about this CCD. Add that and a hard drive or solid state media and I'll be content for a while. I had to buy a DV cam this last month because my wife and i had a new baby and my Hi8 decided to die out this year. Otherwise I'd be waiting.</strong><hr></blockquote>



    Congrats on the new Baby Nos. My Son turned two weeks today. I'll be needing a camera soon. I'm looking at the Canon ZR45
  • Reply 33 of 34
    [quote]Originally posted by hmurchison:

    <strong>



    Congrats on the new Baby Nos. My Son turned two weeks today. I'll be needing a camera soon. I'm looking at the Canon ZR45</strong><hr></blockquote>



    Congrats likewise hm! Two weeks, so you had yours on the 26th? Wow, we had ours on the 22nd. Another girl, which made my older daughter happy because she wanted a sister. Seems like theres another baby boom going on. Everyone I know is having kids.



    As for the ZR45, I was initially excited to get the ZR40 for the following reasons-



    1. It's cheap.

    2. Unlike the cheap Sonys (Dig8s) it's not unwieldly huge.

    3. It does analog to digital pass thru conversion which I need to efficiently convert my Hi8 tapes to DVDs. Fortunately, the VCR function of my old Hi8 still works so I can play it through to another camcorder.



    I shied away from the ZR series for the following reasons-



    1. I'd seen a lot of reports of motor noise being captured on tape with the ZRs.

    2. I tested the pass thru feature by taking my pBook into Best buy and playing a tape from a sony thru S-video into the ZR40 then to the computer through firewire, of course, and noticed some frame skipping. It's possible that was due to the slow notebook hard drive, but I didn't notice the same problem when I used the pass thru feature of a sony with my pBook.

    3. The difference in image quality between the ZRs and sony TRV18 seemed significant.



    I ended up talking myself into a TR25 for $789 by mail order. The first one I got actually had a motor noise problem so I sent it back. The second one I got which happened to arrive 8 hours AFTER my daughter was born worked fine. I recommmended it to another couple who's having a baby and they got it online for $750. It's small, has a lot of manual features I like, and sony has a good rep.



    My Hi8 lasted eight years. Hopefully, in eight more years I'll be able to buy a High Def, solid state recording, foveon or better CCD, that fits in my pocket. Eight years after that they better fit in my sunglasses!
  • Reply 34 of 34
    hmurchisonhmurchison Posts: 12,273member
    Yeah I'll need to make up my mind. I have alot of filming to do. I'll check out that TR Cam you mentioned.



    I can't wait to compile a bunch of footage and eventually get something "artistic" on a DVD. I'm glad that DVD SP is linking to FCP well. Maybe when i'm ready to pony up the $$$ for FCP there will be a bundle of some sorts. I agree it's baby season. I've already had twin nieces born this summer along with YaN(yet another neice lol)
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