I am still waiting for your explanation. Were these people forced to part with their $599? Yes or no?
Folks, you read Mr. H's reply to me above. He is of the position that would support Apple (or most any other business) who drops a new product's price by even 50% only two days after introduction. With that in mind, read on...
Were people forced to pay $599? Of course not. How silly. But my saying that doesn't justify your stance, Mr. H.
You see, people buy things with a fairly decent idea of how long a given item will retain its value. True, some people will be upset about a price drop even a year after a products release, but those folks are not mainstream. I have been talking about "the rest of us." Who are they? Those among us who are normal consumers. It pretty much goes without saying that if you buy a product, you will be rather upset if the price drops significantly only two months after its release. But if the price dropped 6 months after, you may still be upset, but lesser so. And if it was 10 months later, you may not be upset at all. While the exact "number of months" may differ from person to person, it's not a stark difference. My whole point has been that "normal" people get upset at "two months" but lesser so or not at all if prices drop "several months" after a given product's release. How many more months? Again, it varies, but if you look at the industry as a whole, two months is very unusual. Why? Because two months can be taken as a slap in the face by consumers. And in the end, if your customers get pissed off enough about your marketing approach, even in spite of the quality and features, they may decide to avoid spending much of their money on you in the future. And so, Apple needs to be more cautious about doing this again in the future.
And so, Mr. H, I am talking about normal people who buy normal things. And yes, and iPhone is a "normal thing" for normal people to buy (as is any cell phone). And normal people get upset when price drops fall closer to the release date of a given product.
I shouldn't have had to state all this, because the "normal" among us can clearly see it. But for those of you outside the mainstream, I hope you are better informed.
Fine, fine. Finding this glitch in my previous post still does not detract from my point. Even at a 33% drop, it's still TWO MONTHS!
And no, "we computer geeks" are not used to price drops in TWO MONTHS. And calling legitimate complainers in this thread "babies" verges on slander. How hateful some of you Apple fans are out there to your fellow Apple lovers! And as to the silly, stupid posts about "raising the price," you are talking out loud making no sense at all. The complaints in this thread are not made with the aim of raising the price. How foolish to suggest they are! These complaints serve mainly to vent steam. A secondary purpose would be that the posts are made in the hope Apple will avoid making such a silly mistake again. Apple, if you want to reduce a brand new product's price by 33%, wait 6-8 months first!
Now, some of you just don't read or can't read. I deliberately repeated "two months" throughout my previous post (and this one too) to prove my point centered on "two months" above all else. And yet, you defenders of the status quo continue to rail on people who have legitimate complaints about this "two month" fiasco.
It's TWO MONTHS, folks! Two months! Did I say "two months"?!
Two months!
I'm sorry, but it's just not a legitimate complaint to the extent some here have been making it out to be. An annoyance, yes.
Apple should have the right to drop prices as often, and as much as they feel they can, and should.
Would it have made people feel better if they lowered the price by $25 a week instead?
I would think that these people would be happy that Apple COULD lower the price so fast so that more people could get in on the Apple experience. But, no, they want to hold it tight to their chests. Of course we're scornful!
Fine! If you really think that's true. But, I doubt it will affect Apple's sales in the slightest.
I have to say though, that it isn't so much the defense of Apple as it is the response to the often frenzied posts of those who are claiming to be raped by Apple.
I could understand, if this product was a high resale value product. But, it's not. No one LIKES to see a product drop so much fairly shortly after they bought it, but phones are not computers.
If you look at the cell providers who offer the phones you will see that this happens all the time.
When I bought my Treo 700p from Sprint early this year, I paid $399 with a new 2 year contract. About 2 1/2 months later, Version offered the same phone with a 2 year contract for $299.
Before too long, Sprint was offering it for $199.
How did I feel? Not thrilled. But, I'm not ranting about it! That's what happens in the cell phone business.
How do people who bought RAZR's for $500, only to see them drop to $149, 6 months later, feel? Then my friend bought two of them, for himself and his wife, for a total of $300, only to see them sold for $29.95 apiece two weeks later!
Enough is enough!
This is going to happen a lot. People have to get used to it.
Just suck it up, and move on!
I have been in the wireless industry for 20 years. I have spent many years at companies like Nokia and Pantech. I have never once seen a handset drop this much this soon ever. Anything close was because of horrible sales and a crappy product. All other handsets are sold by the carriers so they control the price and make drops based on their needs. I don't see that with the iPhone so my feeling is the V1.0 iPhone is going to be incredibly short lived and Apple wants to move as many as possible while they ready V2.0 which at this rate will be out very soon.
Were people forced to pay $599? Of course not. How silly. But my saying that doesn't justify your stance, Mr. H.
It certainly does. My stance is that no-one was forced to part with their $599, that they did that of their own free will, regarding the iPhone's features to be worth $599 to them. The features of their iPhones have not changed. Therefore there is no legitimate complaint. If you don't think the iPhone is worth $599, you shouldn't have payed that much for it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JDW
It pretty much goes without saying that if you buy a product, you will be rather upset if the price drops significantly only two months after its release.
Only if you were planning on selling it. Really, if you bought something to use it, why does it matter what other people are paying for it now, compared to what you payed for it two months ago? People knew the features of the iPhone, and willingly accepted the $599 asking price. They still have the same iPhone today.
Now look, of course I understand that emotionally speaking, this announcement is going to sting a little for those that paid $599. Sure, people are going to be a bit annoyed, it's understandable. However, these people should not expect anything (e.g. rebates or such like) from Apple. They were not duped, they had an opportunity to inspect the iPhone's capabilities the day they bought it, and decide for themselves whether those capabilities were worth $599.
well for those that are mad they are out $200 you can be a little happy,
I am out $400 b/c i bought 2!!!!! Yes I had the money to pay for them, but that is not the point. Anyone who has money and wants to keep money knows that you do not just throw away $200. It is not a lot of money in the long run, but it is money period!
I did email Apple, but I am sure nothing will come of it. I do love my phone, so I have no complaints, but I would love to have 2 new Nano's with that $400 right now!
There is nothing wrong with my numbers. They are extrapolations from numbers that Apple have provided.
The only numbers Apple provided on actual sales were the numbers after the first 30 hours, or so, of 270 thousand.
The only other numbers they gave was that the wanted to sell 10 million by the end of 2008, and then later, 1 million by the end of September.
{quote]
Just so you can see how I came up with them. Jobs said he expects to sell the one millionth iPod by the end of this month. That's three months since intro. Divide 1 million by three and you get 300,000 units per month. Yes they may end up selling 1,000,512. That's not the point. These are estimates. There are 18 months of sales between the time the iPhone was introd and the end of 08 when Apple said it would sell 10 million. Multiply 300,000 by 18 and you get 5.4 million. A far cry from 10 million. For the record I think Apple still has a good chance of meeting it's sales goal and I think the iPhone is a fantastic device. But they dropped the price for a reason. Weaker than anticipated sales is my explanation.
Yes I hope and expect Apple to begin sales in other countries. The math above demonstrates the need for Apple to do so. [/quote]
You're even admitting that your numbers don't reflect reality. you can't take sales numbers in the US, and project those forward another 13 or 14 months after the market expands several times in size.
If you are going to make a projection, then you need some more information. You have to have numbers of the added population, their buying power, availability of compatible networks, interest in the phone itself, etc.
without trying to use any of that data, the numbers are meaningless!
How do you think you can project possible US sales numbers out to the end of 2008 without all of the above I Mentioned?
If the population that fits the sales profile is now going to triple, then those sales numbers are not 300 thousand, but 900 thousand.
So, once Europe is included, inlets say December, that would be 600 thousand. If Asia is included from, say March, at 900 thousand. The numbers totally change.
Ther could be more or less people in the new numbers, but they certainly be triple the US ones. The include Canada, and others that don't fil the standard Europe/Asia grouping that will be added.
Quote:
As to Apple's stock hit. Well Apple was up about 20 cents before the special event when the overall market was down about 100 points. After the event is when Apple got whacked. As far as other macro economic concerns, Apple isn't immune from them but the stock has held up well. It's actually doing fine even after today. But I think you're mistaken if you think Apple's move today was just due to the trend of the market. The stock tanked after the event. Obviously somebody didn't like what was said.
I followed the market today, and it was down as the day went on. Until we see commentary, the only fair supposition is what I stated earlier Though one reason could be NBC's move to Amazon. Even an article in MacWorld is saying that could hurt Apple.
I have been in the wireless industry for 20 years. I have spent many years at companies like Nokia and Pantech. I have never once seen a handset drop this much this soon ever. Anything close was because of horrible sales and a crappy product. All other handsets are sold by the carriers so they control the price and make drops based on their needs. I don't see that with the iPhone so my feeling is the V1.0 iPhone is going to be incredibly short lived and Apple wants to move as many as possible while they ready V2.0 which at this rate will be out very soon.
Bad form on Apple's part.
Well, the drops I mentioned are real enough. I've seen others as well. It's not that unusual.
the cell phone market is like nike shoes, every 3 months something new for the early must haves
hey i bought a nokia silver slider featured in the matrix for $800 in 2 months i coudn't get an extra charger because they were no longer supporting that phone.....they new BEFORE they shipped the phone that it had bad reception and was being dropped, at least the iphone works and is a killer product. so now i wait a bit, look up return statistics on the internet and user sites before i buy technology, and quess what the return rate for iphones is.........minimal unlike the zune, or zuin, or zoon
It certainly does. My stance is that no-one was forced to part with their $599, that they did that of their own free will, regarding the iPhone's features to be worth $599 to them. The features of their iPhones have not changed. Therefore there is no legitimate complaint. If you don't think the iPhone is worth $599, you shouldn't have payed that much for it.
I can logically understand your statement, but I strongly disagree with you on your point. I don't buy things if I have an inkling the price will drop 33% in two months. You are still missing my point (or simply disagree with it). I am contending that if you ask many iPhone owners (not intent on selling anything, by the way) about how they feel, quite a large number may not have made the original purchase had they known the price would drop so soon. But if you ask them if they would have purchased knowing the price would drop by 33% 10 months or so after the initial sale, I would think most would say YES. So you see my point. "Time" makes all the difference in the world. And no, I am not talking about people who want to sell their phones on EBAY either.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. H
Now look, of course I understand that emotionally speaking, this announcement is going to sting a little for those that paid $599. Sure, people are going to be a bit annoyed, it's understandable. However, these people should not expect anything (e.g. rebates or such like) from Apple. They were not duped, they had an opportunity to inspect the iPhone's capabilities the day they bought it, and decide for themselves whether those capabilities were worth $599.
You again failed to read my previous posts which clearly state nothing can be done at this stage, nor is anyone due rebates or their money back. What I have been saying is that "two months" is "too short" and if anyone wants to "vent that sting" they have the right to do so in this thread without fear of harassment!
I am not defending anyone who is asking for their money back. I am not defending anyone who is demanding a rebate. I am not defending anyone who is calling for the death of Apple on this. I am, however, defending those who "feel the sting." And I am trying to get those of you who don't feel that sting to relax a bit and ease the pain of those who do feel it.
Will Apple give me 100 free ringtones now that the stock is worth 5% less in one day (let alone two months)?
No. The causality is the other way. The stock is down in anticipation of Apple having to give away something like that (and signaling to the market that the iPhone sales are not so hot at the original price, after all).
how about this, show people your iphone....then say i got it for $399 then average it out and it only cost you 100 for bragging rights per month.... yea it's a lie but doesn't everyone say they got a great deal....it's like all those winners coming home from Vegas.....
yea i'd be taken aback but i still would have a great product that people drooled over for these months.
As you know, Apple only sells the iPhone in the US. Before the end of the year, it will also be sold in Europe. After Janury, it will also be sold in Asia. Sometime during these introductions, it will be out in Canada, and other places.
The market for the phone will be three, possible four, or even five times larger.
Talking about doing the math!
And, if you looked, you would have seen that the entire market has been going down because of the mortgage woes in the banking industry. The reason stocks were so off today was because of the falloff in housing sales.
Apple's stock fell because of that.
The Dow Jones Industrial Average was off by 144, the NSYE was off by 115, the NASD was off by 24, the DOW was off by 58, etc.
As Apple is mostly a consumer company, the fear was that Apple might be hit by the consumer credit crunch.
That could very well be another reason why the phone price was dropped so much so fast.
Um.... look at the intra-day movement -- esp. before 1 PM EST and after -- and you may come up a different interpretation.
I believe that the $7.40 drop today was quite Apple-specific.
You're even admitting that your numbers don't reflect reality. you can't take sales numbers in the US, and project those forward another 13 or 14 months after the market expands several times in size.
.
I not admitting that at all! Sure the projections change IF and WHEN sales begin in other countries. That's not the point. The point IS that current sales are NOT going to meet their projections. PERHAPS that's a reason for the dramatic price cut in the iPhone.
I don't buy things if I have an inkling the price will drop 33% in two months. You are still missing my point (or simply disagree with it). I am contending that if you ask many iPhone owners (not intent on selling anything, by the way) about how they feel, quite a large number may not have made the original purchase had they known the price would drop so soon.
Well, of course. Hindsight (or being able to predict the future) is a wonderful thing. If people thought the iPhone worth $599 to them, of course they'd be glad to pay only $399 instead.
People who bought at $599 are now left, with the benefit of hindsight, pondering whether two months' (or less) usage was worth $200 to them. The really angry ones, I'm guessing, are thinking "no" and getting angry at Apple rather than at themselves for buying something they didn't really need (if they needed it, the $200 would be worth it).
But the fact remains that when you buy a product, you don't know what the price is going to be in the future. You just have to make your decision based on the information available to you. If the product is not worth its asking price to you, don't buy it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JDW
What I have been saying is that "two months" is "too short" and if anyone wants to "vent that sting" they have the right to do so in this thread without fear of harassment!
I would say that depends on the manner in which they "vent the sting". If it's "I paid $599, damn! ouch!" then O.K., if it's "Apple screwed me and I want my money back" then not O.K.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JDW
I am not defending anyone who is asking for their money back. I am not defending anyone who is demanding a rebate. I am not defending anyone who is calling for the death of Apple on this. I am, however, defending those who "feel the sting." And I am trying to get those of you who don't feel that sting to relax a bit and ease the pain of those who do feel it.
can't wait till the 3g 160gig iPhone comes out in December for $399 so all the people buying iPhones in the next few weeks feel as screwed as I do. Bad karma is gonna eat Steve's pancreas.
There is nothing wrong with my numbers. They are extrapolations from numbers that Apple have provided.
Just so you can see how I came up with them. Jobs said he expects to sell the one millionth iPod by the end of this month. That's three months since intro. Divide 1 million by three and you get 300,000 units per month. Yes they may end up selling 1,000,512. That's not the point. These are estimates. There are 18 months of sales between the time the iPhone was introd and the end of 08 when Apple said it would sell 10 million. Multiply 300,000 by 18 and you get 5.4 million. A far cry from 10 million. For the record I think Apple still has a good chance of meeting it's sales goal and I think the iPhone is a fantastic device. But they dropped the price for a reason. Weaker than anticipated sales is my explanation.
Yes I hope and expect Apple to begin sales in other countries. The math above demonstrates the need for Apple to do so.
As to Apple's stock hit. Well Apple was up about 20 cents before the special event when the overall market was down about 100 points. After the event is when Apple got whacked. As far as other macro economic concerns, Apple isn't immune from them but the stock has held up well. It's actually doing fine even after today. But I think you're mistaken if you think Apple's move today was just due to the trend of the market. The stock tanked after the event. Obviously somebody didn't like what was said.
.......................
I think a lot of the drop in the Apple stock today can be attributed to the old adage of buy on rumors, sell on news. It's simple profit-taking....if I had the money to buy Apple stock when it was in the 120's a few weeks ago, I'd have sold off today as well.
I think a lot of the drop in the Apple stock today can be attributed to the old adage of buy on rumors, sell on news. It's simple profit-taking....if I had the money to buy Apple stock when it was in the 120's a few weeks ago, I'd have sold off today as well.
......
More on that....Apple introduced new iMacs on 08/07/2007. The pps closed at 135.03. Two days later the stock price closed at 126.39. On Aug 16, the price had dropped to 117.05. After that, the stock recovered into the 140's until today's sell-off. Pretty predictable if you ask me.
Comments
I am still waiting for your explanation. Were these people forced to part with their $599? Yes or no?
Folks, you read Mr. H's reply to me above. He is of the position that would support Apple (or most any other business) who drops a new product's price by even 50% only two days after introduction. With that in mind, read on...
Were people forced to pay $599? Of course not. How silly. But my saying that doesn't justify your stance, Mr. H.
You see, people buy things with a fairly decent idea of how long a given item will retain its value. True, some people will be upset about a price drop even a year after a products release, but those folks are not mainstream. I have been talking about "the rest of us." Who are they? Those among us who are normal consumers. It pretty much goes without saying that if you buy a product, you will be rather upset if the price drops significantly only two months after its release. But if the price dropped 6 months after, you may still be upset, but lesser so. And if it was 10 months later, you may not be upset at all. While the exact "number of months" may differ from person to person, it's not a stark difference. My whole point has been that "normal" people get upset at "two months" but lesser so or not at all if prices drop "several months" after a given product's release. How many more months? Again, it varies, but if you look at the industry as a whole, two months is very unusual. Why? Because two months can be taken as a slap in the face by consumers. And in the end, if your customers get pissed off enough about your marketing approach, even in spite of the quality and features, they may decide to avoid spending much of their money on you in the future. And so, Apple needs to be more cautious about doing this again in the future.
And so, Mr. H, I am talking about normal people who buy normal things. And yes, and iPhone is a "normal thing" for normal people to buy (as is any cell phone). And normal people get upset when price drops fall closer to the release date of a given product.
I shouldn't have had to state all this, because the "normal" among us can clearly see it. But for those of you outside the mainstream, I hope you are better informed.
The price dropped by 33%, not 66%. 599 to 399.
Some of us are really annoyed by the foolish posts complaining about the drop.
It's not that we think people can't be annoyed. That's fine. But many of those posts are over the top, and require an over the top response.
Or, the old price is 50% higher
Either way, if you bought an iPhone before today, you were made an iFool of. Yes, I'm an iFool too.
Fine, fine. Finding this glitch in my previous post still does not detract from my point. Even at a 33% drop, it's still TWO MONTHS!
And no, "we computer geeks" are not used to price drops in TWO MONTHS. And calling legitimate complainers in this thread "babies" verges on slander. How hateful some of you Apple fans are out there to your fellow Apple lovers! And as to the silly, stupid posts about "raising the price," you are talking out loud making no sense at all. The complaints in this thread are not made with the aim of raising the price. How foolish to suggest they are! These complaints serve mainly to vent steam. A secondary purpose would be that the posts are made in the hope Apple will avoid making such a silly mistake again. Apple, if you want to reduce a brand new product's price by 33%, wait 6-8 months first!
Now, some of you just don't read or can't read. I deliberately repeated "two months" throughout my previous post (and this one too) to prove my point centered on "two months" above all else. And yet, you defenders of the status quo continue to rail on people who have legitimate complaints about this "two month" fiasco.
It's TWO MONTHS, folks! Two months! Did I say "two months"?!
Two months!
I'm sorry, but it's just not a legitimate complaint to the extent some here have been making it out to be. An annoyance, yes.
Apple should have the right to drop prices as often, and as much as they feel they can, and should.
Would it have made people feel better if they lowered the price by $25 a week instead?
I would think that these people would be happy that Apple COULD lower the price so fast so that more people could get in on the Apple experience. But, no, they want to hold it tight to their chests. Of course we're scornful!
Fine! If you really think that's true. But, I doubt it will affect Apple's sales in the slightest.
I have to say though, that it isn't so much the defense of Apple as it is the response to the often frenzied posts of those who are claiming to be raped by Apple.
I could understand, if this product was a high resale value product. But, it's not. No one LIKES to see a product drop so much fairly shortly after they bought it, but phones are not computers.
If you look at the cell providers who offer the phones you will see that this happens all the time.
When I bought my Treo 700p from Sprint early this year, I paid $399 with a new 2 year contract. About 2 1/2 months later, Version offered the same phone with a 2 year contract for $299.
Before too long, Sprint was offering it for $199.
How did I feel? Not thrilled. But, I'm not ranting about it! That's what happens in the cell phone business.
How do people who bought RAZR's for $500, only to see them drop to $149, 6 months later, feel? Then my friend bought two of them, for himself and his wife, for a total of $300, only to see them sold for $29.95 apiece two weeks later!
Enough is enough!
This is going to happen a lot. People have to get used to it.
Just suck it up, and move on!
I have been in the wireless industry for 20 years. I have spent many years at companies like Nokia and Pantech. I have never once seen a handset drop this much this soon ever. Anything close was because of horrible sales and a crappy product. All other handsets are sold by the carriers so they control the price and make drops based on their needs. I don't see that with the iPhone so my feeling is the V1.0 iPhone is going to be incredibly short lived and Apple wants to move as many as possible while they ready V2.0 which at this rate will be out very soon.
Bad form on Apple's part.
Were people forced to pay $599? Of course not. How silly. But my saying that doesn't justify your stance, Mr. H.
It certainly does. My stance is that no-one was forced to part with their $599, that they did that of their own free will, regarding the iPhone's features to be worth $599 to them. The features of their iPhones have not changed. Therefore there is no legitimate complaint. If you don't think the iPhone is worth $599, you shouldn't have payed that much for it.
It pretty much goes without saying that if you buy a product, you will be rather upset if the price drops significantly only two months after its release.
Only if you were planning on selling it. Really, if you bought something to use it, why does it matter what other people are paying for it now, compared to what you payed for it two months ago? People knew the features of the iPhone, and willingly accepted the $599 asking price. They still have the same iPhone today.
Now look, of course I understand that emotionally speaking, this announcement is going to sting a little for those that paid $599. Sure, people are going to be a bit annoyed, it's understandable. However, these people should not expect anything (e.g. rebates or such like) from Apple. They were not duped, they had an opportunity to inspect the iPhone's capabilities the day they bought it, and decide for themselves whether those capabilities were worth $599.
I am out $400 b/c i bought 2!!!!! Yes I had the money to pay for them, but that is not the point. Anyone who has money and wants to keep money knows that you do not just throw away $200. It is not a lot of money in the long run, but it is money period!
I did email Apple, but I am sure nothing will come of it. I do love my phone, so I have no complaints, but I would love to have 2 new Nano's with that $400 right now!
There is nothing wrong with my numbers. They are extrapolations from numbers that Apple have provided.
The only numbers Apple provided on actual sales were the numbers after the first 30 hours, or so, of 270 thousand.
The only other numbers they gave was that the wanted to sell 10 million by the end of 2008, and then later, 1 million by the end of September.
{quote]
Just so you can see how I came up with them. Jobs said he expects to sell the one millionth iPod by the end of this month. That's three months since intro. Divide 1 million by three and you get 300,000 units per month. Yes they may end up selling 1,000,512. That's not the point. These are estimates. There are 18 months of sales between the time the iPhone was introd and the end of 08 when Apple said it would sell 10 million. Multiply 300,000 by 18 and you get 5.4 million. A far cry from 10 million. For the record I think Apple still has a good chance of meeting it's sales goal and I think the iPhone is a fantastic device. But they dropped the price for a reason. Weaker than anticipated sales is my explanation.
Yes I hope and expect Apple to begin sales in other countries. The math above demonstrates the need for Apple to do so. [/quote]
You're even admitting that your numbers don't reflect reality. you can't take sales numbers in the US, and project those forward another 13 or 14 months after the market expands several times in size.
If you are going to make a projection, then you need some more information. You have to have numbers of the added population, their buying power, availability of compatible networks, interest in the phone itself, etc.
without trying to use any of that data, the numbers are meaningless!
How do you think you can project possible US sales numbers out to the end of 2008 without all of the above I Mentioned?
If the population that fits the sales profile is now going to triple, then those sales numbers are not 300 thousand, but 900 thousand.
So, once Europe is included, inlets say December, that would be 600 thousand. If Asia is included from, say March, at 900 thousand. The numbers totally change.
Ther could be more or less people in the new numbers, but they certainly be triple the US ones. The include Canada, and others that don't fil the standard Europe/Asia grouping that will be added.
As to Apple's stock hit. Well Apple was up about 20 cents before the special event when the overall market was down about 100 points. After the event is when Apple got whacked. As far as other macro economic concerns, Apple isn't immune from them but the stock has held up well. It's actually doing fine even after today. But I think you're mistaken if you think Apple's move today was just due to the trend of the market. The stock tanked after the event. Obviously somebody didn't like what was said.
I followed the market today, and it was down as the day went on. Until we see commentary, the only fair supposition is what I stated earlier Though one reason could be NBC's move to Amazon. Even an article in MacWorld is saying that could hurt Apple.
I have been in the wireless industry for 20 years. I have spent many years at companies like Nokia and Pantech. I have never once seen a handset drop this much this soon ever. Anything close was because of horrible sales and a crappy product. All other handsets are sold by the carriers so they control the price and make drops based on their needs. I don't see that with the iPhone so my feeling is the V1.0 iPhone is going to be incredibly short lived and Apple wants to move as many as possible while they ready V2.0 which at this rate will be out very soon.
Bad form on Apple's part.
Well, the drops I mentioned are real enough. I've seen others as well. It's not that unusual.
hey i bought a nokia silver slider featured in the matrix for $800 in 2 months i coudn't get an extra charger because they were no longer supporting that phone.....they new BEFORE they shipped the phone that it had bad reception and was being dropped, at least the iphone works and is a killer product. so now i wait a bit, look up return statistics on the internet and user sites before i buy technology, and quess what the return rate for iphones is.........minimal unlike the zune, or zuin, or zoon
It certainly does. My stance is that no-one was forced to part with their $599, that they did that of their own free will, regarding the iPhone's features to be worth $599 to them. The features of their iPhones have not changed. Therefore there is no legitimate complaint. If you don't think the iPhone is worth $599, you shouldn't have payed that much for it.
I can logically understand your statement, but I strongly disagree with you on your point. I don't buy things if I have an inkling the price will drop 33% in two months. You are still missing my point (or simply disagree with it). I am contending that if you ask many iPhone owners (not intent on selling anything, by the way) about how they feel, quite a large number may not have made the original purchase had they known the price would drop so soon. But if you ask them if they would have purchased knowing the price would drop by 33% 10 months or so after the initial sale, I would think most would say YES. So you see my point. "Time" makes all the difference in the world. And no, I am not talking about people who want to sell their phones on EBAY either.
Now look, of course I understand that emotionally speaking, this announcement is going to sting a little for those that paid $599. Sure, people are going to be a bit annoyed, it's understandable. However, these people should not expect anything (e.g. rebates or such like) from Apple. They were not duped, they had an opportunity to inspect the iPhone's capabilities the day they bought it, and decide for themselves whether those capabilities were worth $599.
You again failed to read my previous posts which clearly state nothing can be done at this stage, nor is anyone due rebates or their money back. What I have been saying is that "two months" is "too short" and if anyone wants to "vent that sting" they have the right to do so in this thread without fear of harassment!
I am not defending anyone who is asking for their money back. I am not defending anyone who is demanding a rebate. I am not defending anyone who is calling for the death of Apple on this. I am, however, defending those who "feel the sting." And I am trying to get those of you who don't feel that sting to relax a bit and ease the pain of those who do feel it.
That's it in a nutshell.
Will Apple give me 100 free ringtones now that the stock is worth 5% less in one day (let alone two months)?
No. The causality is the other way. The stock is down in anticipation of Apple having to give away something like that (and signaling to the market that the iPhone sales are not so hot at the original price, after all).
yea i'd be taken aback but i still would have a great product that people drooled over for these months.
Your numbers are not real.
As you know, Apple only sells the iPhone in the US. Before the end of the year, it will also be sold in Europe. After Janury, it will also be sold in Asia. Sometime during these introductions, it will be out in Canada, and other places.
The market for the phone will be three, possible four, or even five times larger.
Talking about doing the math!
And, if you looked, you would have seen that the entire market has been going down because of the mortgage woes in the banking industry. The reason stocks were so off today was because of the falloff in housing sales.
Apple's stock fell because of that.
The Dow Jones Industrial Average was off by 144, the NSYE was off by 115, the NASD was off by 24, the DOW was off by 58, etc.
As Apple is mostly a consumer company, the fear was that Apple might be hit by the consumer credit crunch.
That could very well be another reason why the phone price was dropped so much so fast.
Um.... look at the intra-day movement -- esp. before 1 PM EST and after -- and you may come up a different interpretation.
I believe that the $7.40 drop today was quite Apple-specific.
(Hi, Mel; enjoy your posts, as always).
You're even admitting that your numbers don't reflect reality. you can't take sales numbers in the US, and project those forward another 13 or 14 months after the market expands several times in size.
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I not admitting that at all! Sure the projections change IF and WHEN sales begin in other countries. That's not the point. The point IS that current sales are NOT going to meet their projections. PERHAPS that's a reason for the dramatic price cut in the iPhone.
Apparently I'm not the only one that thinks this.
Um.... look at the intra-day movement -- esp. before 1 PM EST and after -- and you may come up a different interpretation.
I believe that the $7.40 drop today was quite Apple-specific.
(Hi, Mel; enjoy your posts, as always).
I've already pointed this out. He's convinced other wise.
I don't buy things if I have an inkling the price will drop 33% in two months. You are still missing my point (or simply disagree with it). I am contending that if you ask many iPhone owners (not intent on selling anything, by the way) about how they feel, quite a large number may not have made the original purchase had they known the price would drop so soon.
Well, of course. Hindsight (or being able to predict the future) is a wonderful thing. If people thought the iPhone worth $599 to them, of course they'd be glad to pay only $399 instead.
People who bought at $599 are now left, with the benefit of hindsight, pondering whether two months' (or less) usage was worth $200 to them. The really angry ones, I'm guessing, are thinking "no" and getting angry at Apple rather than at themselves for buying something they didn't really need (if they needed it, the $200 would be worth it).
But the fact remains that when you buy a product, you don't know what the price is going to be in the future. You just have to make your decision based on the information available to you. If the product is not worth its asking price to you, don't buy it.
What I have been saying is that "two months" is "too short" and if anyone wants to "vent that sting" they have the right to do so in this thread without fear of harassment!
I would say that depends on the manner in which they "vent the sting". If it's "I paid $599, damn! ouch!" then O.K., if it's "Apple screwed me and I want my money back" then not O.K.
I am not defending anyone who is asking for their money back. I am not defending anyone who is demanding a rebate. I am not defending anyone who is calling for the death of Apple on this. I am, however, defending those who "feel the sting." And I am trying to get those of you who don't feel that sting to relax a bit and ease the pain of those who do feel it.
That's it in a nutshell.
Agreed.
can't wait till the 3g 160gig iPhone comes out in December for $399 so all the people buying iPhones in the next few weeks feel as screwed as I do. Bad karma is gonna eat Steve's pancreas.
That is a TRULY terrible thing to say.
There is nothing wrong with my numbers. They are extrapolations from numbers that Apple have provided.
Just so you can see how I came up with them. Jobs said he expects to sell the one millionth iPod by the end of this month. That's three months since intro. Divide 1 million by three and you get 300,000 units per month. Yes they may end up selling 1,000,512. That's not the point. These are estimates. There are 18 months of sales between the time the iPhone was introd and the end of 08 when Apple said it would sell 10 million. Multiply 300,000 by 18 and you get 5.4 million. A far cry from 10 million. For the record I think Apple still has a good chance of meeting it's sales goal and I think the iPhone is a fantastic device. But they dropped the price for a reason. Weaker than anticipated sales is my explanation.
Yes I hope and expect Apple to begin sales in other countries. The math above demonstrates the need for Apple to do so.
As to Apple's stock hit. Well Apple was up about 20 cents before the special event when the overall market was down about 100 points. After the event is when Apple got whacked. As far as other macro economic concerns, Apple isn't immune from them but the stock has held up well. It's actually doing fine even after today. But I think you're mistaken if you think Apple's move today was just due to the trend of the market. The stock tanked after the event. Obviously somebody didn't like what was said.
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I think a lot of the drop in the Apple stock today can be attributed to the old adage of buy on rumors, sell on news. It's simple profit-taking....if I had the money to buy Apple stock when it was in the 120's a few weeks ago, I'd have sold off today as well.
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I think a lot of the drop in the Apple stock today can be attributed to the old adage of buy on rumors, sell on news. It's simple profit-taking....if I had the money to buy Apple stock when it was in the 120's a few weeks ago, I'd have sold off today as well.
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More on that....Apple introduced new iMacs on 08/07/2007. The pps closed at 135.03. Two days later the stock price closed at 126.39. On Aug 16, the price had dropped to 117.05. After that, the stock recovered into the 140's until today's sell-off. Pretty predictable if you ask me.