Well, I imagine anyone who bought an iPhone in the last few weeks feels like I did when I bought an iMac G5 two months after introduction, only to see it go intel 3 weeks later and include a better graphics card. I was infuriated.
I am really surprised at this move actually. I really didn't see it coming at all. My hope is that they release a 3G version early next year. I don't think it will hit before the holidays. Then again, perhaps it will, and the price will be higher? Maybe they would even keep the 2G version at $399, and have the 3G at $499? Or, perhaps they are planning to release 3G and they want to soften to blow to all the folks who buy in the next few months. It will undoubtedly be a better product for the same money.
really? can anyone be surprised apple lowered the price on these "test" iphones? i have a hard time thinking any reasonable person would believe a HIGH priced v1 product released 5 months before christmas would still carry the high price tag for much long after. moreover, if you blew $$ on the iphone that came out this summer and you were concerned about the expenditure, you would rightly be called foolish (trading up anyone?)
think of it this way: it all has to do with price points.
foolish, because most analysts predicted the next version of the iphone 'due out before christmas' would have 3g, much more memory, and have most of the inital glitches worked out (like the abominable headphone jack, landscape-less keyboard, poor call quality, etc..). and since im on the subject, the only way apple could figure out what was hampering the call quality was to roll the phone out and wait for the issues to play out.
although people have a perfect right to be mad, the element of shock should not be there.
Folks, you read Mr. H's reply to me above. He is of the position that would support Apple (or most any other business) who drops a new product's price by even 50% only two days after introduction. With that in mind, read on...
Were people forced to pay $599? Of course not. How silly. But my saying that doesn't justify your stance, Mr. H.
You see, people buy things with a fairly decent idea of how long a given item will retain its value. True, some people will be upset about a price drop even a year after a products release, but those folks are not mainstream. I have been talking about "the rest of us." Who are they? Those among us who are normal consumers. It pretty much goes without saying that if you buy a product, you will be rather upset if the price drops significantly only two months after its release. But if the price dropped 6 months after, you may still be upset, but lesser so. And if it was 10 months later, you may not be upset at all. While the exact "number of months" may differ from person to person, it's not a stark difference. My whole point has been that "normal" people get upset at "two months" but lesser so or not at all if prices drop "several months" after a given product's release. How many more months? Again, it varies, but if you look at the industry as a whole, two months is very unusual. Why? Because two months can be taken as a slap in the face by consumers. And in the end, if your customers get pissed off enough about your marketing approach, even in spite of the quality and features, they may decide to avoid spending much of their money on you in the future. And so, Apple needs to be more cautious about doing this again in the future.
And so, Mr. H, I am talking about normal people who buy normal things. And yes, and iPhone is a "normal thing" for normal people to buy (as is any cell phone). And normal people get upset when price drops fall closer to the release date of a given product.
I shouldn't have had to state all this, because the "normal" among us can clearly see it. But for those of you outside the mainstream, I hope you are better informed.
It would be false to categorize a phone with other products that hold value over the years, or even over a year to 18 months, which is the average time most people hold onto their phones.
Unless some enterprising individual is buying phones to resell at higher prices, whether an iPhone holds its value isn't relevant.
People buy their phones, and keep them until they're ready to get new ones. Then they either hand them to their kids, if it's a better phone, put them in a draw and forget them, or donate them to the used phone bins where they are refurbished, and given to the elderly, infirm, or otherwise needy.
How many people sell their phones after they are through with them?
Continuing in that vein. If Apple drops the price so much, and so fast, if they do come out with a better model sooner than expected, and the new price is fairly low at that time, instead of high, as it was, then you could get the newer one earlier than you could of otherwise, making up for that difference in price that you you so exercised earlier.
So, I see no reason to get upset, unless he is just annoyed that others are getting a better deal than you got.
I not admitting that at all! Sure the projections change IF and WHEN sales begin in other countries. That's not the point. The point IS that current sales are NOT going to meet their projections. PERHAPS that's a reason for the dramatic price cut in the iPhone.
It doesn't matter WHO thinks it. It is false logic.
What you are saying, in effect, is that while you know that your numbers will be wrong, you are using them anyway.
If we were talking about 10%, or so, fine. But we could very well be talking about numbers that are anywhere, on average for the next 13 months, after the phone is released outside the US, from a minimum of twice, to over four times the present, assumed numbers.
You can't act as thought that won't be true. We do know the phone will be introduced outside the US, and that MUST be taken into account.
The holiday season also will have a major effect on sales this year, and next year as well, when it will be almost all over.
It doesn't matter WHO thinks it. It is false logic.
What you are saying, in effect, is that while you know that your numbers will be wrong, you are using them anyway.
If we were talking about 10%, or so, fine. But we could very well be talking about numbers that are anywhere, on average for the next 13 months, after the phone is released outside the US, from a minimum of twice, to over four times the present, assumed numbers.
You can't act as thought that won't be true. We do know the phone will be introduced outside the US, and that MUST be taken into account.
The holiday season also will have a major effect on sales this year, and next year as well, when it will be almost all over.
I'm not going to argue with you any more over this. If you don't accept my numbers fine. That's your prerogative. You dismiss them easily but offer little else in support of your position.
It's funny though how in the Apple/NBC dispute you referred to the WSJ as evidence to support your claim that Apple was going to be hurt by this dispute. When I present a link to TheStreet.com to support my position in this debate it's "false logic". Whatever.
I hope Apple reach their sales goals. I'm an Apple shareholder. But I'm not sticking my head in the sand.
What do they mean that the 4GB is going to be sold while supplies last? Is that cheaper than $399? Who is going to buy a 4GB for $499 when they can get a 8GB for $399?
Called my local Apple store tonight (Sept 5) and the 4GB is $299 while supplies last... I will wait till the hype due to the price drop is over and get an 8GB as the 4GB will be gone very soon...
... it only cost you 100 for bragging rights per month.... yea it's a lie......
I don't know if it is or is not not a "lie." I can only speak for myself. I will say that the bragging rights I enjoyed for eight days in Paris were alone worth the $200.
Heck, that is no more than the cost of a good meal at a great restaurant in Paris (admittedly, including a bit of wine).
If apple was planning to sell the iPhone at this price so soon, then why would they hold on to this price from February. They should have done this from the get-go.
My wife was a big fan of the iPhone. She was saving up to buy an 8gb like the one I purchased with my hard earned money. Now she hates the iPhone thanks to this announcement. The iPhone in my opinion, should have kept the same price. This was suppose to be different than the other phones. Now it is being devalued at the same rate as the other junkie phones. (sigh). So what's next, is the iPod touch going to be worth 99 buck by Christmas. Of course not. I have been an apple authorized reseller and never have I seem such product devaluation on an apple product until now. Not even on products that are discontinued. What a shame.
You dismiss them easily but offer little else in support of your position.
Um, it you who is ignoring the fact that the iPhone is going to be available to many, many more people during 2008. Your numbers are easily dismissed because they are nonsense.
Apple will gladly do a price adjustment within 14 days of the price drop. In most cases, they would do it a few days after the 14 day period. So go get your $200 back!
If you have bought your iphone using a credit card, your cc may provide a price match guaranteed for a certain period...most of the time is somewhere between 30 to 90 days. Don't sit around and flame..go see what you can do and share your findings with us all!
I know you are frustrated! I got mine on iDay after lining up for hours like many of you! I remember how happy I was to have gotten it on iDay! You couldn't wipe the smirk off my face even if you punched me! That kind of feeling could not be easily replaced by $200
how about this, show people your iphone....then say i got it for $399 then average it out and it only cost you 100 for bragging rights per month.... yea it's a lie but doesn't everyone say they got a great deal....it's like all those winners coming home from Vegas.....
yea i'd be taken aback but i still would have a great product that people drooled over for these months.
Bragging rights and other people's drool seem to be very important to you.
Independently of that, I am speculating you do not have a wife.
No. I have a girlfriend of four years who I've lived with for 3 1/2 of those.
Anyway, I did not miss the point of his post. People should choose products based on their utility and value, not how much they cost (in terms of the more the better). If you're choosing something just because it's expensive, that is a shallow decision.
Fine! If you really think that's true. But, I doubt it will affect Apple's sales in the slightest.
I have to say though, that it isn't so much the defense of Apple as it is the response to the often frenzied posts of those who are claiming to be raped by Apple.
I could understand, if this product was a high resale value product. But, it's not. No one LIKES to see a product drop so much fairly shortly after they bought it, but phones are not computers.
If you look at the cell providers who offer the phones you will see that this happens all the time.
When I bought my Treo 700p from Sprint early this year, I paid $399 with a new 2 year contract. About 2 1/2 months later, Version offered the same phone with a 2 year contract for $299.
Before too long, Sprint was offering it for $199.
How did I feel? Not thrilled. But, I'm not ranting about it! That's what happens in the cell phone business.
How do people who bought RAZR's for $500, only to see them drop to $149, 6 months later, feel? Then my friend bought two of them, for himself and his wife, for a total of $300, only to see them sold for $29.95 apiece two weeks later!
Enough is enough!
This is going to happen a lot. People have to get used to it.
Just suck it up, and move on!
My post simply stated that it is Apple's right to do precisely what they did, but it is my right to not do business with them in as trusting a manner. In your previous posts, you said that you do the same thing. I am new to Macs, you are not. Perhaps we both learned the same lesson, but at different times.
Evidence has been provided by both sides regarding historical price decreases, and both sides have valid points. As I stated before, I do feel that some will hold back on purchases, but I'm sure that Apple calculated that most would not regardless of these actions.
Why do you feel the need to tell people how they should feel and act instead of just providing information in an open way where you don't assume that your take on the situation is the only one that is valid? You have valid points and I'm not quite as angry as when the price drop was initially announced, but you are doing your intellectual arguments a disservice by being so rude about it.
I'm not going to argue with you any more over this. If you don't accept my numbers fine. That's your prerogative. You dismiss them easily but offer little else in support of your position.
It's funny though how in the Apple/NBC dispute you referred to the WSJ as evidence to support your claim that Apple was going to be hurt by this dispute. When I present a link to TheStreet.com to support my position in this debate it's "false logic". Whatever.
I hope Apple reach their sales goals. I'm an Apple shareholder. But I'm not sticking my head in the sand.
I have supported my contention. What are you saying? Are you niow denying that Jobs himself said that this would be entering Europe late this year, and Asia the first half of next year? Because that's fact. You know that's fact. We all know that's fact.
What you are saying is that the US numbers will hold up throughout all of 2008, and you refuse to acknowledge those other numbers that must be added. That's not supportable. I can't understand where you are going with this.
Usually your arguments are logical, but this is one I can't follow.
The Street is not regarded the way the WSJ is. When the WSJ says something about Apple's plans, and numbers they are accurate. The Street has no such history.
Also, the Street is saying "evidence to the speculation", whatever that means.
I'm not sticking my head in the sand either. I'm just using facts that we know.
And, we're talking about two things here, a temporary drop in Apple's price, and long term sales numbers. Perhaps we can separate them.
Comments
I am really surprised at this move actually. I really didn't see it coming at all. My hope is that they release a 3G version early next year. I don't think it will hit before the holidays. Then again, perhaps it will, and the price will be higher? Maybe they would even keep the 2G version at $399, and have the 3G at $499? Or, perhaps they are planning to release 3G and they want to soften to blow to all the folks who buy in the next few months. It will undoubtedly be a better product for the same money.
think of it this way: it all has to do with price points.
foolish, because most analysts predicted the next version of the iphone 'due out before christmas' would have 3g, much more memory, and have most of the inital glitches worked out (like the abominable headphone jack, landscape-less keyboard, poor call quality, etc..). and since im on the subject, the only way apple could figure out what was hampering the call quality was to roll the phone out and wait for the issues to play out.
although people have a perfect right to be mad, the element of shock should not be there.
Folks, you read Mr. H's reply to me above. He is of the position that would support Apple (or most any other business) who drops a new product's price by even 50% only two days after introduction. With that in mind, read on...
Were people forced to pay $599? Of course not. How silly. But my saying that doesn't justify your stance, Mr. H.
You see, people buy things with a fairly decent idea of how long a given item will retain its value. True, some people will be upset about a price drop even a year after a products release, but those folks are not mainstream. I have been talking about "the rest of us." Who are they? Those among us who are normal consumers. It pretty much goes without saying that if you buy a product, you will be rather upset if the price drops significantly only two months after its release. But if the price dropped 6 months after, you may still be upset, but lesser so. And if it was 10 months later, you may not be upset at all. While the exact "number of months" may differ from person to person, it's not a stark difference. My whole point has been that "normal" people get upset at "two months" but lesser so or not at all if prices drop "several months" after a given product's release. How many more months? Again, it varies, but if you look at the industry as a whole, two months is very unusual. Why? Because two months can be taken as a slap in the face by consumers. And in the end, if your customers get pissed off enough about your marketing approach, even in spite of the quality and features, they may decide to avoid spending much of their money on you in the future. And so, Apple needs to be more cautious about doing this again in the future.
And so, Mr. H, I am talking about normal people who buy normal things. And yes, and iPhone is a "normal thing" for normal people to buy (as is any cell phone). And normal people get upset when price drops fall closer to the release date of a given product.
I shouldn't have had to state all this, because the "normal" among us can clearly see it. But for those of you outside the mainstream, I hope you are better informed.
It would be false to categorize a phone with other products that hold value over the years, or even over a year to 18 months, which is the average time most people hold onto their phones.
Unless some enterprising individual is buying phones to resell at higher prices, whether an iPhone holds its value isn't relevant.
People buy their phones, and keep them until they're ready to get new ones. Then they either hand them to their kids, if it's a better phone, put them in a draw and forget them, or donate them to the used phone bins where they are refurbished, and given to the elderly, infirm, or otherwise needy.
How many people sell their phones after they are through with them?
Continuing in that vein. If Apple drops the price so much, and so fast, if they do come out with a better model sooner than expected, and the new price is fairly low at that time, instead of high, as it was, then you could get the newer one earlier than you could of otherwise, making up for that difference in price that you you so exercised earlier.
So, I see no reason to get upset, unless he is just annoyed that others are getting a better deal than you got.
But that would be silly, right?
I not admitting that at all! Sure the projections change IF and WHEN sales begin in other countries. That's not the point. The point IS that current sales are NOT going to meet their projections. PERHAPS that's a reason for the dramatic price cut in the iPhone.
Apparently I'm not the only one that thinks this.
It doesn't matter WHO thinks it. It is false logic.
What you are saying, in effect, is that while you know that your numbers will be wrong, you are using them anyway.
If we were talking about 10%, or so, fine. But we could very well be talking about numbers that are anywhere, on average for the next 13 months, after the phone is released outside the US, from a minimum of twice, to over four times the present, assumed numbers.
You can't act as thought that won't be true. We do know the phone will be introduced outside the US, and that MUST be taken into account.
The holiday season also will have a major effect on sales this year, and next year as well, when it will be almost all over.
It doesn't matter WHO thinks it. It is false logic.
What you are saying, in effect, is that while you know that your numbers will be wrong, you are using them anyway.
If we were talking about 10%, or so, fine. But we could very well be talking about numbers that are anywhere, on average for the next 13 months, after the phone is released outside the US, from a minimum of twice, to over four times the present, assumed numbers.
You can't act as thought that won't be true. We do know the phone will be introduced outside the US, and that MUST be taken into account.
The holiday season also will have a major effect on sales this year, and next year as well, when it will be almost all over.
I'm not going to argue with you any more over this. If you don't accept my numbers fine. That's your prerogative. You dismiss them easily but offer little else in support of your position.
It's funny though how in the Apple/NBC dispute you referred to the WSJ as evidence to support your claim that Apple was going to be hurt by this dispute. When I present a link to TheStreet.com to support my position in this debate it's "false logic". Whatever.
I hope Apple reach their sales goals. I'm an Apple shareholder. But I'm not sticking my head in the sand.
What do they mean that the 4GB is going to be sold while supplies last? Is that cheaper than $399? Who is going to buy a 4GB for $499 when they can get a 8GB for $399?
Called my local Apple store tonight (Sept 5) and the 4GB is $299 while supplies last... I will wait till the hype due to the price drop is over and get an 8GB as the 4GB will be gone very soon...
... it only cost you 100 for bragging rights per month.... yea it's a lie......
I don't know if it is or is not not a "lie." I can only speak for myself. I will say that the bragging rights I enjoyed for eight days in Paris were alone worth the $200.
Heck, that is no more than the cost of a good meal at a great restaurant in Paris (admittedly, including a bit of wine).
My wife was a big fan of the iPhone. She was saving up to buy an 8gb like the one I purchased with my hard earned money. Now she hates the iPhone thanks to this announcement. The iPhone in my opinion, should have kept the same price. This was suppose to be different than the other phones. Now it is being devalued at the same rate as the other junkie phones. (sigh). So what's next, is the iPod touch going to be worth 99 buck by Christmas. Of course not. I have been an apple authorized reseller and never have I seem such product devaluation on an apple product until now. Not even on products that are discontinued. What a shame.
That is a TRULY terrible thing to say.
Not to worry..... there is no such thing as bad karma. There is only karma, period (good or bad depends on your point of view).
You dismiss them easily but offer little else in support of your position.
Um, it you who is ignoring the fact that the iPhone is going to be available to many, many more people during 2008. Your numbers are easily dismissed because they are nonsense.
Now she hates the iPhone thanks to this announcement.
Wow. How shallow.
So, I see no reason to get upset, unless he is just annoyed that others are getting a better deal than you got.
But that would be silly, right?
Yes, of course.
Just as I see no reason to gloat, unless someone is overjoyed that others got a worse deal than you are currently getting.
If you have bought your iphone using a credit card, your cc may provide a price match guaranteed for a certain period...most of the time is somewhere between 30 to 90 days. Don't sit around and flame..go see what you can do and share your findings with us all!
I know you are frustrated! I got mine on iDay after lining up for hours like many of you! I remember how happy I was to have gotten it on iDay! You couldn't wipe the smirk off my face even if you punched me! That kind of feeling could not be easily replaced by $200
Wow. How shallow.
I think you missed the point of his post.
Independently of that, I am speculating you do not have a wife.
how about this, show people your iphone....then say i got it for $399 then average it out and it only cost you 100 for bragging rights per month.... yea it's a lie but doesn't everyone say they got a great deal....it's like all those winners coming home from Vegas.....
yea i'd be taken aback but i still would have a great product that people drooled over for these months.
Bragging rights and other people's drool seem to be very important to you.
I think you missed the point of his post.
Independently of that, I am speculating you do not have a wife.
No. I have a girlfriend of four years who I've lived with for 3 1/2 of those.
Anyway, I did not miss the point of his post. People should choose products based on their utility and value, not how much they cost (in terms of the more the better). If you're choosing something just because it's expensive, that is a shallow decision.
Fine! If you really think that's true. But, I doubt it will affect Apple's sales in the slightest.
I have to say though, that it isn't so much the defense of Apple as it is the response to the often frenzied posts of those who are claiming to be raped by Apple.
I could understand, if this product was a high resale value product. But, it's not. No one LIKES to see a product drop so much fairly shortly after they bought it, but phones are not computers.
If you look at the cell providers who offer the phones you will see that this happens all the time.
When I bought my Treo 700p from Sprint early this year, I paid $399 with a new 2 year contract. About 2 1/2 months later, Version offered the same phone with a 2 year contract for $299.
Before too long, Sprint was offering it for $199.
How did I feel? Not thrilled. But, I'm not ranting about it! That's what happens in the cell phone business.
How do people who bought RAZR's for $500, only to see them drop to $149, 6 months later, feel? Then my friend bought two of them, for himself and his wife, for a total of $300, only to see them sold for $29.95 apiece two weeks later!
Enough is enough!
This is going to happen a lot. People have to get used to it.
Just suck it up, and move on!
My post simply stated that it is Apple's right to do precisely what they did, but it is my right to not do business with them in as trusting a manner. In your previous posts, you said that you do the same thing. I am new to Macs, you are not. Perhaps we both learned the same lesson, but at different times.
Evidence has been provided by both sides regarding historical price decreases, and both sides have valid points. As I stated before, I do feel that some will hold back on purchases, but I'm sure that Apple calculated that most would not regardless of these actions.
Why do you feel the need to tell people how they should feel and act instead of just providing information in an open way where you don't assume that your take on the situation is the only one that is valid? You have valid points and I'm not quite as angry as when the price drop was initially announced, but you are doing your intellectual arguments a disservice by being so rude about it.
I'm not going to argue with you any more over this. If you don't accept my numbers fine. That's your prerogative. You dismiss them easily but offer little else in support of your position.
It's funny though how in the Apple/NBC dispute you referred to the WSJ as evidence to support your claim that Apple was going to be hurt by this dispute. When I present a link to TheStreet.com to support my position in this debate it's "false logic". Whatever.
I hope Apple reach their sales goals. I'm an Apple shareholder. But I'm not sticking my head in the sand.
I have supported my contention. What are you saying? Are you niow denying that Jobs himself said that this would be entering Europe late this year, and Asia the first half of next year? Because that's fact. You know that's fact. We all know that's fact.
What you are saying is that the US numbers will hold up throughout all of 2008, and you refuse to acknowledge those other numbers that must be added. That's not supportable. I can't understand where you are going with this.
Usually your arguments are logical, but this is one I can't follow.
The Street is not regarded the way the WSJ is. When the WSJ says something about Apple's plans, and numbers they are accurate. The Street has no such history.
Also, the Street is saying "evidence to the speculation", whatever that means.
I'm not sticking my head in the sand either. I'm just using facts that we know.
And, we're talking about two things here, a temporary drop in Apple's price, and long term sales numbers. Perhaps we can separate them.