I'd call it a debate. Interesting to me - I thought i was being supportive of those that were upset - apparently, I have been being a devils advocate. I'm still surprised by the strong views expressed by three or four of you that upon the price drop there was little (or I guess your comments mean you think there is NO) basis for a claim - I disagree. Unfortunately, given today's open letter, we'll probably never know for sure - because as you saw on these boards, many were satisfied with the $100 olive branch. I will be excited to see the terms of the credit.
You are nobody's advocate, devil or otherwise. The problem is that throughout the course of the day, you have convinced yourself more and more of your own b.s. Yes, I have told you before...there is NO basis for the claim(s) you have described (on this thread and the earlier one). Get over it.
As for "we'll never know for sure...," since you are such a big believer in your claim, file it. Then, you'll know, for sure...that you were wrong. And Apple will spank you with a bill for their attorneys' fees.
If you are in law school, as some others have joked, drop out. You are wasting your money. You will need it, since $200 is such a big deal.
WOW, any customer comlpaining about this is just stupid, and has no idea about how business works.
Apple didnt screw anyone: Apple offered a product for a price, customers said yes, it is a value to me so I will take it. deal done.
Apple decided to lower prices for the same reason, and in similar time frame that Motorola, RIM, Palm, and such do. The Razr became cheap months after release, RIM usually drops prices 60 to 90 days after release of product.
Without fail, EVERY SINGLE PIECE OF TECHNOLOGY that I have ever purchased was quite a bit cheaper 2-3 months later.
Mr Jobs had to give in to a few whiny crybabies to avoid bad PR, thus shaken investor confidence.
The whining about whining (in some cases about whining) on this thread is hilarious.
To people who think Apple should have acted proactively to avoid whining or "do the right thing" or whatever: No. Do it proactively and they're admitting that they got pricing wrong the first time and willingly screwed their customers. Doing it this way makes it a very generous but unnecessary gift from the nicest big company in the world. "Sorry, we screwed you but we're going to offer you $100 less than you deserve" becomes "We didn't screw you, we owe you nothing but we're going to give you $100 anyways because we love you and want you to buy more of our beautiful products."
EDIT: To avoid the inevitable, "but it was the wrong thing to do, they did screw us, etc." comments, you're also wrong about that. Apple did not screw you. You bought an iPhone for $600. You thought it was worth it at the time. You still have a working iPhone. Apple has every right to to lower the price, especially to stay competitive in the tricky phone market. Therefore, they are treating this development the way it should be treated. Not as an admission of guilt but as a nice thing they do not because they have to, but because they're Apple. Enjoy your iPhone.
I'd call it a debate. Interesting to me - I thought i was being supportive of those that were upset - apparently, I have been being a devils advocate. I'm still surprised by the strong views expressed by three or four of you that upon the price drop there was little (or I guess your comments mean you think there is NO) basis for a claim - I disagree. Unfortunately, given today's open letter, we'll probably never know for sure - because as you saw on these boards, many were satisfied with the $100 olive branch. I will be excited to see the terms of the credit.
Not three or four of us, almost all of us.
It's three or four of you here that's been constantly complaining.
You are nobody's advocate, devil or otherwise. The problem is that throughout the course of the day, you have convinced yourself more and more of your own b.s. Yes, I have told you before...there is NO basis for the claim(s) you have described (on this thread and the earlier one). Get over it.
As for "we'll never know for sure...," since you are such a big believer in your claim, file it. Then, you'll know, for sure...that you were wrong. And Apple will spank you with a bill for their attorneys' fees.
If you are in law school, as some others have joked, drop out. You are wasting your money. You will need it, since $200 is such a big deal.
You need more coffee - or something. We'll always disagree (apparently) on the validity of the ability to make a claim - I don't need to make a claim against Apple or ATT to know the strength of my position, I have much experience to know it.
All the people moaning on this site are nothing but pathetic, hypocritical, greedy, whining, liars. Reading the comments on this issue has sometimes made me laugh and sometimes made me sick with embarrassment to be a mac owner.
I have always thought the iPhone was not a great phone and even at $399 i still not not think it is, but you lot loved it!! you came on this forum day after day telling everything how fantastic it was, how it was the best phone in the world, how it changes the whole fabric of society etc.. If anyone has even dared suggest it was not worth $599 then you would have shouted them down so quick, you all thought it was well worth the $599. But because someone else can buy it for $399 your phone was suddenly not worth $599??? You are either stupid or you are liars, which one?
So another thing that is often to be found on this site is the people who take great delight in the financial status at Apple, be it the share price or the amount of profit Apple has made. Some of you are actually investors and have a real interest in the Apple share price, others have a weird love interest with the makes of your laptop and even though you do not gain financially yourself you still masturbate to every extra percent that Apple is worth.
Bur now Apple have agreed to take a hit and rebate $100 to you all, i am unsure how much this is worth in real dollar value, Apple make 17% Profit from all their business, $100 must make up the majority of the profit from iPhone but of course they get another sale out of it so it is hard, but $50 million may not be off the mark? Anyway the point is this comes of Apples bottom line!! this affects the share price and this affects Steve Jobs pension, what happened to your love and desire for all things Apple?? How quickly you greedy little bastards turn!!
Make up your minds people, what do you want? Do you want to come on this forum and argue with me that your iPhone is wonderful and worth every penny, that your are sexually aroused by Apples bottom line and high gross margins? Or do you want to come back down to earth with a bump and realise that Apple is just another manufacturer of Far East assembled electronics whos biggest goal is to make as much money as possible and who does not really give a crap about you - unless of course they are in danger of getting bad publicity.
I would like to think that this experience will be a turning point for some of you, but i am 100% sure you will all be back in a few weeks with a copy of Leopard in one hand and a box of tissues in the other!!
You need more coffee - or something. We'll always disagree (apparently) on the validity of the ability to make a claim - I don't need to make a claim against Apple or ATT to know the strength of my position, I have much experience to know it.
You obviously don't, or you wouldn't be making the claims in the first place.
You need more coffee - or something. We'll always disagree (apparently) on the validity of the ability to make a claim - I don't need to make a claim against Apple or ATT to know the strength of my position, I have much experience to know it.
Yes, many delusional people convince themselves of how right their "position" or "belief" might be. Doesn't mean that it is correct. Your position would need to pop some Viagra in order to stand straight. But, go on lathering yourself up...I'll go grab "more coffee-or something."
Thanks Steve for this unnecessary but nice gesture!
Thanks all whiners for whining, it was great fun to read all those pathetic posts... but it worked your way.
Maybe Steve was watching the forums as soon as he made the announcement of the price drop and laughed his head of on all the comments.... and just after it reached the main press (now EVERYBODY knows about the price cut) .. he announces the $100 refund... creating and buying advertisement for the new iPhone price would have been much more expensive and less effective.
All the people moaning on this site are nothing but pathetic, hypocritical, greedy, whining, liars. Reading the comments on this issue has sometimes made me laugh and sometimes made me sick with embarrassment to be a mac owner.
I have always thought the iPhone was not a great phone and even at $399 i still not not think it is, but you lot loved it!! you came on this forum day after day telling everything how fantastic it was, how it was the best phone in the world, how it changes the whole fabric of society etc.. If anyone has even dared suggest it was not worth $599 then you would have shouted them down so quick, you all thought it was well worth the $599. But because someone else can buy it for $399 your phone was suddenly not worth $599??? You are either stupid or you are liars, which one?
So another thing that is often to be found on this site is the people who take great delight in the financial status at Apple, be it the share price or the amount of profit Apple has made. Some of you are actually investors and have a real interest in the Apple share price, others have a weird love interest with the makes of your laptop and even though you do not gain financially yourself you still masturbate to every extra percent that Apple is worth.
Bur now Apple have agreed to take a hit and rebate $100 to you all, i am unsure how much this is worth in real dollar value, Apple make 17% Profit from all their business, $100 must make up the majority of the profit from iPhone but of course they get another sale out of it so it is hard, but $50 million may not be off the mark? Anyway the point is this comes of Apples bottom line!! this affects the share price and this affects Steve Jobs pension, what happened to your love and desire for all things Apple?? How quickly you greedy little bastards turn!!
Make up your minds people, what do you want? Do you want to come on this forum and argue with me that your iPhone is wonderful and worth every penny, that your are sexually aroused by Apples bottom line and high gross margins? Or do you want to come back down to earth with a bump and realise that Apple is just another manufacturer of Far East assembled electronics whos biggest goal is to make as much money as possible and who does not really give a crap about you - unless of course they are in danger of getting bad publicity.
I would like to think that this experience will be a turning point for some of you, but i am 100% sure you will all be back in a few weeks with a copy of Leopard in one hand and a box of tissues in the other!!
Second, third or fourth that one! Accurate post murph.
Did anyone notice how some elements (like the dock) in the iTouch look a lot like the new leopard o.s.? Plus it's going to be out in stores on the 28th...? On the date apple will release their next os?
To people who think Apple should have acted proactively to avoid whining or "do the right thing" or whatever: No. Do it proactively and they're admitting that they got pricing wrong the first time and willingly screwed their customers. Doing it this way makes it a very generous but unnecessary gift from the nicest big company in the world. "Sorry, we screwed you but we're going to offer you $100 less than you deserve" becomes "We didn't screw you, we owe you nothing but we're going to give you $100 anyways because we love you and want you to buy more of our beautiful products."
Definitely the best argument I've read on this point. And no overt personal attacks involved either. Kudos to you.
Yeah, I think you do have a point. While it would've been nice if Apple had done the credit right out of the starting gate, that then would've opened them up to a "It should be a $200 credit! Or cash!" type backlash.
Basically, it was a negotiation, and Apple came in stronger by starting at zero.
The $100 credit will cost them maybe $75 a head in real terms, and totally knocks the stuffing out of the complainer crowd... even though it comes nowhere near the actual $200 amount that they were originally complaining about.
Definitely the best argument I've read on this point. And no overt personal attacks involved either. Kudos to you.
Yeah, I think you do have a point. While it would've been nice if Apple had done the credit right out of the starting gate, that then would've opened them up to a "It should be a $200 credit! Or cash!" type backlash.
Basically, it was a negotiation, and Apple came in stronger by starting at zero.
The $100 credit will cost them maybe $75 a head in real terms, and totally knocks the stuffing out of the complainer crowd... even though it comes nowhere near the actual $200 amount that they were originally complaining about.
1) Apple has made a necessity out of a virtue. Ex-post classy, but only after the media gives them grief for "backlash." Could have been handled better ex-ante.
2) I believe that the drastic price reduction really spooked the markets. It sent all sorts of confusing signals about iPhone demand going forward. Moreover, the likely reduction in per-unit margins implied lower aggregate earnings despite likely increases in quantity sold. The stock fell dramatically.
3) Many sane, non-whiny, early iPhone buyers realize that Apple didn't need to do diddly-squat. But they are really quite pleased with this gesture.
4) The signaling benefits of this move -- from a high-end-customer retention standpoint, and giving a green light to those who might have been given pause about plonking $$$ down for new product introductions by Apple in the future -- could well be hugely positive tomorrow. Predictions are cheap, but I will venture one anyway: Apple gains tomorrow.
5) Don't forget that early buyers also included the Mossbergs and Pogues of the world, and dozens - if not hundreds - of similar influencers. Buying back their goodwill could be both necessary, and priceless.
6) In the USA Today interview I read earlier today, I recall SJ said something along the lines of (I am paraphrasing, and drawing upon my recollection) how they had known they would do this price cut months ago -- now, that sounds really like he said "hey, let's rip-off some early buyers" when, I am sure, that is not what was intended or planned. I think today's "refund" could be a $100 million cover-your-legal-ass move on Apple's part because of SJ's misspeech.
7) I think that the early buyers who stuck their necks out and complained took their lumps in the form of major abuse in the last 24 hours in forums like these, that's for sure. But I am afraid that now the shoe is on the other foot. Those of you who were busy name-calling yesterday ("whiners," "bitches," patsies," "crybabies," etc. etc...... I could go on with the epithets) need to now swallow hard, and move on, like mature adults.
(I cannot substantiate Point #6 -- I swear I read it earlier today somewhere, but now I can't find the link for it; so I am rescinding that point. But I want to leave it there, grey-ed out, so that, if someone else saw it they could perhaps point to that link. If that was a mistake on my part, I apologize in advance.)
Comments
I'd call it a debate. Interesting to me - I thought i was being supportive of those that were upset - apparently, I have been being a devils advocate. I'm still surprised by the strong views expressed by three or four of you that upon the price drop there was little (or I guess your comments mean you think there is NO) basis for a claim - I disagree. Unfortunately, given today's open letter, we'll probably never know for sure - because as you saw on these boards, many were satisfied with the $100 olive branch. I will be excited to see the terms of the credit.
You are nobody's advocate, devil or otherwise. The problem is that throughout the course of the day, you have convinced yourself more and more of your own b.s. Yes, I have told you before...there is NO basis for the claim(s) you have described (on this thread and the earlier one). Get over it.
As for "we'll never know for sure...," since you are such a big believer in your claim, file it. Then, you'll know, for sure...that you were wrong. And Apple will spank you with a bill for their attorneys' fees.
If you are in law school, as some others have joked, drop out. You are wasting your money. You will need it, since $200 is such a big deal.
Apple didnt screw anyone: Apple offered a product for a price, customers said yes, it is a value to me so I will take it. deal done.
Apple decided to lower prices for the same reason, and in similar time frame that Motorola, RIM, Palm, and such do. The Razr became cheap months after release, RIM usually drops prices 60 to 90 days after release of product.
Without fail, EVERY SINGLE PIECE OF TECHNOLOGY that I have ever purchased was quite a bit cheaper 2-3 months later.
Mr Jobs had to give in to a few whiny crybabies to avoid bad PR, thus shaken investor confidence.
Riiiiggghhhttt..... (not)
Good response.
You still haven't provided any evidence.
I suppose you won't even try, right?
Well in any event its over now so we can move back to bitching about the lack of a mid range midtower...LOL
I know. Where is that thing? Dammit Steve!
.
To people who think Apple should have acted proactively to avoid whining or "do the right thing" or whatever: No. Do it proactively and they're admitting that they got pricing wrong the first time and willingly screwed their customers. Doing it this way makes it a very generous but unnecessary gift from the nicest big company in the world. "Sorry, we screwed you but we're going to offer you $100 less than you deserve" becomes "We didn't screw you, we owe you nothing but we're going to give you $100 anyways because we love you and want you to buy more of our beautiful products."
EDIT: To avoid the inevitable, "but it was the wrong thing to do, they did screw us, etc." comments, you're also wrong about that. Apple did not screw you. You bought an iPhone for $600. You thought it was worth it at the time. You still have a working iPhone. Apple has every right to to lower the price, especially to stay competitive in the tricky phone market. Therefore, they are treating this development the way it should be treated. Not as an admission of guilt but as a nice thing they do not because they have to, but because they're Apple. Enjoy your iPhone.
I'd call it a debate. Interesting to me - I thought i was being supportive of those that were upset - apparently, I have been being a devils advocate. I'm still surprised by the strong views expressed by three or four of you that upon the price drop there was little (or I guess your comments mean you think there is NO) basis for a claim - I disagree. Unfortunately, given today's open letter, we'll probably never know for sure - because as you saw on these boards, many were satisfied with the $100 olive branch. I will be excited to see the terms of the credit.
Not three or four of us, almost all of us.
It's three or four of you here that's been constantly complaining.
You are nobody's advocate, devil or otherwise. The problem is that throughout the course of the day, you have convinced yourself more and more of your own b.s. Yes, I have told you before...there is NO basis for the claim(s) you have described (on this thread and the earlier one). Get over it.
As for "we'll never know for sure...," since you are such a big believer in your claim, file it. Then, you'll know, for sure...that you were wrong. And Apple will spank you with a bill for their attorneys' fees.
If you are in law school, as some others have joked, drop out. You are wasting your money. You will need it, since $200 is such a big deal.
You need more coffee - or something. We'll always disagree (apparently) on the validity of the ability to make a claim - I don't need to make a claim against Apple or ATT to know the strength of my position, I have much experience to know it.
I have always thought the iPhone was not a great phone and even at $399 i still not not think it is, but you lot loved it!! you came on this forum day after day telling everything how fantastic it was, how it was the best phone in the world, how it changes the whole fabric of society etc.. If anyone has even dared suggest it was not worth $599 then you would have shouted them down so quick, you all thought it was well worth the $599. But because someone else can buy it for $399 your phone was suddenly not worth $599??? You are either stupid or you are liars, which one?
So another thing that is often to be found on this site is the people who take great delight in the financial status at Apple, be it the share price or the amount of profit Apple has made. Some of you are actually investors and have a real interest in the Apple share price, others have a weird love interest with the makes of your laptop and even though you do not gain financially yourself you still masturbate to every extra percent that Apple is worth.
Bur now Apple have agreed to take a hit and rebate $100 to you all, i am unsure how much this is worth in real dollar value, Apple make 17% Profit from all their business, $100 must make up the majority of the profit from iPhone but of course they get another sale out of it so it is hard, but $50 million may not be off the mark? Anyway the point is this comes of Apples bottom line!! this affects the share price and this affects Steve Jobs pension, what happened to your love and desire for all things Apple?? How quickly you greedy little bastards turn!!
Make up your minds people, what do you want? Do you want to come on this forum and argue with me that your iPhone is wonderful and worth every penny, that your are sexually aroused by Apples bottom line and high gross margins? Or do you want to come back down to earth with a bump and realise that Apple is just another manufacturer of Far East assembled electronics whos biggest goal is to make as much money as possible and who does not really give a crap about you - unless of course they are in danger of getting bad publicity.
I would like to think that this experience will be a turning point for some of you, but i am 100% sure you will all be back in a few weeks with a copy of Leopard in one hand and a box of tissues in the other!!
You need more coffee - or something. We'll always disagree (apparently) on the validity of the ability to make a claim - I don't need to make a claim against Apple or ATT to know the strength of my position, I have much experience to know it.
You obviously don't, or you wouldn't be making the claims in the first place.
You still haven't supported them.
Reply @ murphyweb
You need more coffee - or something. We'll always disagree (apparently) on the validity of the ability to make a claim - I don't need to make a claim against Apple or ATT to know the strength of my position, I have much experience to know it.
Yes, many delusional people convince themselves of how right their "position" or "belief" might be. Doesn't mean that it is correct. Your position would need to pop some Viagra in order to stand straight. But, go on lathering yourself up...I'll go grab "more coffee-or something."
Thanks all whiners for whining, it was great fun to read all those pathetic posts... but it worked your way.
Maybe Steve was watching the forums as soon as he made the announcement of the price drop and laughed his head of on all the comments.... and just after it reached the main press (now EVERYBODY knows about the price cut) .. he announces the $100 refund... creating and buying advertisement for the new iPhone price would have been much more expensive and less effective.
in other words GREAT PR!
All the people moaning on this site are nothing but pathetic, hypocritical, greedy, whining, liars. Reading the comments on this issue has sometimes made me laugh and sometimes made me sick with embarrassment to be a mac owner.
I have always thought the iPhone was not a great phone and even at $399 i still not not think it is, but you lot loved it!! you came on this forum day after day telling everything how fantastic it was, how it was the best phone in the world, how it changes the whole fabric of society etc.. If anyone has even dared suggest it was not worth $599 then you would have shouted them down so quick, you all thought it was well worth the $599. But because someone else can buy it for $399 your phone was suddenly not worth $599??? You are either stupid or you are liars, which one?
So another thing that is often to be found on this site is the people who take great delight in the financial status at Apple, be it the share price or the amount of profit Apple has made. Some of you are actually investors and have a real interest in the Apple share price, others have a weird love interest with the makes of your laptop and even though you do not gain financially yourself you still masturbate to every extra percent that Apple is worth.
Bur now Apple have agreed to take a hit and rebate $100 to you all, i am unsure how much this is worth in real dollar value, Apple make 17% Profit from all their business, $100 must make up the majority of the profit from iPhone but of course they get another sale out of it so it is hard, but $50 million may not be off the mark? Anyway the point is this comes of Apples bottom line!! this affects the share price and this affects Steve Jobs pension, what happened to your love and desire for all things Apple?? How quickly you greedy little bastards turn!!
Make up your minds people, what do you want? Do you want to come on this forum and argue with me that your iPhone is wonderful and worth every penny, that your are sexually aroused by Apples bottom line and high gross margins? Or do you want to come back down to earth with a bump and realise that Apple is just another manufacturer of Far East assembled electronics whos biggest goal is to make as much money as possible and who does not really give a crap about you - unless of course they are in danger of getting bad publicity.
I would like to think that this experience will be a turning point for some of you, but i am 100% sure you will all be back in a few weeks with a copy of Leopard in one hand and a box of tissues in the other!!
Second, third or fourth that one! Accurate post murph.
http://www.macworld.com/news/2007/09...veyu/index.php
Did anyone notice how some elements (like the dock) in the iTouch look a lot like the new leopard o.s.? Plus it's going to be out in stores on the 28th...? On the date apple will release their next os?
</speculation mode>
.
To people who think Apple should have acted proactively to avoid whining or "do the right thing" or whatever: No. Do it proactively and they're admitting that they got pricing wrong the first time and willingly screwed their customers. Doing it this way makes it a very generous but unnecessary gift from the nicest big company in the world. "Sorry, we screwed you but we're going to offer you $100 less than you deserve" becomes "We didn't screw you, we owe you nothing but we're going to give you $100 anyways because we love you and want you to buy more of our beautiful products."
Definitely the best argument I've read on this point. And no overt personal attacks involved either. Kudos to you.
Yeah, I think you do have a point. While it would've been nice if Apple had done the credit right out of the starting gate, that then would've opened them up to a "It should be a $200 credit! Or cash!" type backlash.
Basically, it was a negotiation, and Apple came in stronger by starting at zero.
The $100 credit will cost them maybe $75 a head in real terms, and totally knocks the stuffing out of the complainer crowd... even though it comes nowhere near the actual $200 amount that they were originally complaining about.
Very sound strategically by Steve.
.
Definitely the best argument I've read on this point. And no overt personal attacks involved either. Kudos to you.
Yeah, I think you do have a point. While it would've been nice if Apple had done the credit right out of the starting gate, that then would've opened them up to a "It should be a $200 credit! Or cash!" type backlash.
Basically, it was a negotiation, and Apple came in stronger by starting at zero.
The $100 credit will cost them maybe $75 a head in real terms, and totally knocks the stuffing out of the complainer crowd... even though it comes nowhere near the actual $200 amount that they were originally complaining about.
Very sound strategically by Steve.
.
I agree with that as well.
1) Apple has made a necessity out of a virtue. Ex-post classy, but only after the media gives them grief for "backlash." Could have been handled better ex-ante.
2) I believe that the drastic price reduction really spooked the markets. It sent all sorts of confusing signals about iPhone demand going forward. Moreover, the likely reduction in per-unit margins implied lower aggregate earnings despite likely increases in quantity sold. The stock fell dramatically.
3) Many sane, non-whiny, early iPhone buyers realize that Apple didn't need to do diddly-squat. But they are really quite pleased with this gesture.
4) The signaling benefits of this move -- from a high-end-customer retention standpoint, and giving a green light to those who might have been given pause about plonking $$$ down for new product introductions by Apple in the future -- could well be hugely positive tomorrow. Predictions are cheap, but I will venture one anyway: Apple gains tomorrow.
5) Don't forget that early buyers also included the Mossbergs and Pogues of the world, and dozens - if not hundreds - of similar influencers. Buying back their goodwill could be both necessary, and priceless.
6) In the USA Today interview I read earlier today, I recall SJ said something along the lines of (I am paraphrasing, and drawing upon my recollection) how they had known they would do this price cut months ago -- now, that sounds really like he said "hey, let's rip-off some early buyers" when, I am sure, that is not what was intended or planned. I think today's "refund" could be a $100 million cover-your-legal-ass move on Apple's part because of SJ's misspeech.
7) I think that the early buyers who stuck their necks out and complained took their lumps in the form of major abuse in the last 24 hours in forums like these, that's for sure. But I am afraid that now the shoe is on the other foot. Those of you who were busy name-calling yesterday ("whiners," "bitches," patsies," "crybabies," etc. etc...... I could go on with the epithets) need to now swallow hard, and move on, like mature adults.
(I cannot substantiate Point #6 -- I swear I read it earlier today somewhere, but now I can't find the link for it; so I am rescinding that point. But I want to leave it there, grey-ed out, so that, if someone else saw it they could perhaps point to that link. If that was a mistake on my part, I apologize in advance.)